Happy Anniversary FRLians!

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

As some of you know, I was a "top 20 frequent poster" for a long while. Then, over the last six months, I dedicated most of my decreasing forum time to the FRL. The "Failure Lists" project, the "trademark" vexing questions and ensuing discussions, the "Y2K for Newcomers" series, and frequent posting were behind me. Work responsibilities increased. I felt that laughter was the best medicine, and would be needed by many of us, increasingly, over these last six months. For any that may remember me in the future, I find it somewhat ironic to consider that it may be for the FRL, and that the FRL is what some on the forum have only 'known' me for. This makes me smile.

A year ago today, the "Know Your Fruitcake" thread was started, and the FRL as we know it was born. Since then, we have had lots of laughs and good times, all in the midst of some very sobering discussions, contemplation, and a schizophrenic non-stop roller coaster ride. We have had well over 2200 answers during the year, and no current FRL thread ever went into the archives before the next was started, and the first FRL thread still holds the record for the most posts for any thread on this forum.

You, my friends, are the FRL. You have made it what it is. Thank you for the many ROTFL posts as well as the cyber-companionship. It has helped make a tough year easier in some ways, and it has been an honor to serve you as "FRLian leader". Finally, it is with great joy that I wish each of you a Happy One Year FRL Anniversary.

Long Live the FRL!

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@happy.oneyear), December 11, 1999



(All yelled with a mixed sprinkling of fruits 'n nutz!)




Fruitcake Index...

#0-A: Perfect y2k food? (not for the serious)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000FvD

#0-B: Supermarkets, Duct Tape, and Phone Gnomes (Humor)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000W78

#0-C: Grandmama's missing check
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000GXB

#0-D: Who else got one of 10 Anti-terrorist "Units"?
(pre-beginnings of the Canadianainainan steath geeses thread)
http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000DfT

#1: Know Your Fruitcake! (not for the serious)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000Imj

#2: Know your Fruitcake, the second.
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000hxd

#3: OT - Fruitcake III
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000sez

#4: Know Your Fruitcake IV (not for the serious)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 0011dm

#5: Fruitcake V : The Return of Sue?
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 001Bli

#6: OT- FRLians Unite, members only - OT
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 001Izu

#7: OT - FRL 7
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 001Oap

#8: OT - FRL 8
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 001P4r

#9: OT-FRL #9
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 001TU6

#10: OT - FRL #10 (washing Murhpy)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 001ZPa

# 11: FRL # 11 - Lessons from the Geese
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 001gIB

# 12: FRL #12 - Natural Highs
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 001lYX

# 13: FRLian Thanksgiving
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 001qlz

# 14: OT - FRL #14 - Limerick Festival
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 001tTn

# 15: Happy Anniversary FRLians!
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 001ypb

And... for Lon...

Beans and Air Quality (HUMOR)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000h17

And another addition...

Brotherhood of Yourdon (Sir Richard of the Dale)
http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000Ia4

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 11, 1999.


Rob, thanks for all of the smiles! I can't think of a nicer gift you could have given us during this stressful year!

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), December 11, 1999.


The grand ballroom of Circus! Circus!, Las Vegas, Nevada.

An assembled crowd of merry- makers, some young, some not so.. Some in formal attire, some in blue jeans and red socks. One in a tutu. Some with grey hair, some with none, and even one beautiful lass with locks the color of the sky stone found in desert mountains.

Name tags cut from duct tape in the shape of geese carry cryptic identities: Dog, Big Dog, Lobo, Greybear and DiETer. Sir Robert, Chris, Chuck, Hardliner, and Hallix. Stan, Dick o' the Dale, She in the Sheet, Trish the Dish, Gayla, Diane, flora, and a pair of A & L's. Linda, and Jean, and an old guy tagged SOB, keeping count of the particiapants. So many others, so many faces unnamed untill now.

Along the west wall, a series of poster-sized displays carry home- grown poetry, haiku, limericks, word paintings. In the room center, a midway of stalls; Spam- on-a-stick, fruitcake slices, cups of rice and beans. Iggie Chalmet tends a bar stocked with fruit jars of "Jiggle Juice" and a few cups of latte. Caliope music mixes with the often repeted exclamations of "Oh, my God, it's YOU".

Hands are gripped and held. Necks are hugged. Pictures of families are passed around. Tears are shed.

Suddenly, a young man with a purposeful walk strides to the podium.

"My name is Rob. I'd like to welcome you all to the third anniversary of the FRL!"


If wishes were fishes,

I'd catch you a few.

And serve 'em in moon dishes

With early morning dew.

-- Lon Frank (lgal@exp.net), December 11, 1999.

Happy anniversary!

Thank-you all for being a support group extrordinaire! I hope someday to be able to meet face to face the friends who I now can only speak to board to board.


Friendships started here

I value beyond all cost

Thanks for your friendship!

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), December 11, 1999.

Lon brushes another heart-tugging stroke of future nostalgia painting! That would be something to look forward to and live for :-)

-- croak sneeze acchhoooo (allaha@earthlink.net), December 11, 1999.

Get well soon, Ashton and Leska! :-)

Lon, it's a lovely thought! I sure hope things aren't too bad next year! Tricia, I hope to meet you some day, too! :-)

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), December 12, 1999.

Oooooh! Ahhhh.....as the crowd from below


Amid endless lights,

A flash! - views of explosions,

then fireworks overhead.


-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), December 12, 1999.

Ashton and Leska, so sorry you're ill! DH says my 'flu must have been extra-strength to be contagious electronically :-) Hope you're both feeling well again real soon.

Gayla, how come the English teacher writes the least poetry? Is it the years of reading bad poetry from your students? When you do write, it's always good, this is just my whine about its rarity. (Mom was an English teacher, can you tell?)

Donna, I'm glad your hard drive came back to life in time for you to join the anniversary party - did you bring the jiggle juice, too? How goes the job? Are you still the new kid on the block or are you an old timer now? Helping young teens is something I'd find nearly impossible to do day after day - I'm so grateful that they have someone like you to turn to. (((Donna)))

Thanks, Rob, the FRL has been a gift beyond price. Although we laugh alot together here, your more serious side and your poetic side peep out from time to time. When you did more serious postings more often, I could usually tell they were yours by how hard I was thinking before I got to the end of the question :-)

Robert, your unique way of presenting words always keeps me on my toes, trying to follow your train of thought.

Lon, thanks for the poetry. Even when you write prose, it's poetry.

Chris, you awe me. You converse better in English than many who use it as their mother tongue. @ votre santi!

SOBob, take good care of those poor confused geese who 'Honk y'all, eh?'. I'll send a message back with them next fall, if I can. Carla says that I first have to catch one and that's pretty hard 'cause they're stealth.

Hardliner, I apologize for starting a war - blame on the incipient 'flu, my brain was buried in cotton batting for two weeks, I'm sure. Please do Asylum us now and then, we need it!

Linda, Brian, Craig, my secret a@dmirer and all other lurkers who occasionally break cover - thanks for your support. Pipe up any time - especially on those rare occasions when one of us is left to talk to ourselves, 'cause the rest are all too busy. I don't think any FRLian would rather talk to themselves than to someone else. Anyone else. Even you ;-)

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), December 12, 1999.

Gesunheit, Robert!

A hatch-choo from your keyboard

Deserves a blessing!

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), December 12, 1999.

God Bless you Tricia. You made my day!

-- (secret@dmirer.ofTricia), December 12, 1999.

Tricia, my dear friend,
You are truly a treasure!
Praying our paths cross...

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), December 12, 1999.

Friends are around now,

someday we'll meet face to face,

and laugh at 'old times'.

-- (sonofdust@com.net), December 13, 1999.

Happy Anniversary, one and all! The FRL type connections has been part of what's excellent about Y2K. I can't imagine the last year without you all!


-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), December 13, 1999.

Yes, Happy Aniversary!

If your wondering about "Chris" and "Hardliner", they are shacked up somewhere in Texas. Supposedly she and her husband were getting a divorce before this started. I wonder if he knows where she's at or what she's doing.

Although he and I shared 15 years of thick and thin, he felt that he had found something better on the Internet.

After I found out about their little on-line fling, I begged him to stop. I told him that exchanging love letters via Email was just as bad as "real" adultery. His paraphrased response : Well I might as do it for real now. Up until the moment he went to meet her, I asked him to stop and to work things out with me.

It's over for us. The only reason I'm writing this is to let you know what kind of fine upstanding and moral people these are. Another motive is to let all you husbands and wives out there caught up in the same thing know that your actions have real and damaging results. It's seems to be real easy to be flattered by somebody that's never seen your flaws or had to deal with the mundane realities of day to day life.

By the way, I've read all the BS out there about people with DGI mates. Do you folks really want to throw it all away? Who knows what the New Year will bring. I'm a programmer who has been working on the problem for 2 years(and definately GI) and I can't say for certain.

-- Soon to be Ex-Mrs Hardliner (vbKinder@hotmail.com), December 13, 1999.

Soon to be Ex-Mrs Hardliner???? Hmmm. Maybe Hardliner and/or Chris will want to put in two cents here. We'll see.


Another long day,

started a serious thread,

first in a long time.


The lake is quiet now, after churning for two days. The deer are all hiding in the thickest brush, as the birds sing and fly over their domain. Down by the shore there are Beaver tracks. Uh oh :)

-- (sonofdust@beaver.tracks), December 13, 1999.

Rob, I had my doubts, too! 'Lady' has been known to pull a few of these pranks. What are the odds that 'Mrs. Hardliner' would know exactly which thread to post on? If it really IS her, I'm sorry for her pain. It sounds like her marriage had problems, too. Beaver, huh? Better watch those trees! :-)

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), December 14, 1999.

Based on some off-forum conversations, I believe that what we have here is an imposter. Hardliner has a different name for Mrs. Hardliner, and I HAVE had a discussion with her also. If I am wrong, I am terribly disapointed that someone who understood the meaning of an oath would violate the most important one a Man can take.

I ALSO find this difficult to accept due to his references to her in our conversations. Per his conversations, SHE is even more of a GI than he is. Or at least she WAS a year ago. Can't see a Yaqui lady changing quite that easily.


-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 14, 1999.

I am no imposter. I reside in Leon Junction, Texas with 3 canines in a home that was Hardliner's and mine for over 10 years. The Email address is real. Yes there were problems in our relationship, but none that justified this. Sounds like someone may be trying to rationalize their own actions. If you are doing this to mate, please stop. It's seems that there were problems in "Chris's" marraige also, but this does not give anybody the right to do this to anybody else.

"Hardliner" had insisted that this was just a "fantasy" and only between the two of them. I was very hurt when I found out about this "fling" and even more hurt to see you folks out here hinting at "Chris's" love interest. I suggest going to a website called "Affairs of the Net" and reading some BB postings by the person you know as "Hardliner". On that BB he is known as "The Devils Advocate". I suggested this site to him when he claimed that he had done nothing wrong by romancing "Chris" via Email. i had hoped that he would see the seriousnes of his actions. Instead of just reading the stuff and thinking about it, he chose to write long justifications. The responses he received we less that positive and this seems to surprise and anger him. I begged him to stop this thing with "Chris" for over 2 months. I had a sincere desire to work things out, but the "fling" had to end before I would commit myself (not an unreasonable request). He may have stopped for a while, but he refused to tell me that he had. As for conversing with "Chuck the Night Driver", just when was this? I have posted only 4 times to this forum under the pseudonyms "Heidi"(3, Y2K related) and "Amiga de Peto"(1; humorous), ex-Mrs Hardliner(1). I have never revealed that I am a Yaqui to anybody on this site or anywhere on the Internet. I wonder if somebody is passing themselves off as me or if "Hardliner" was revealing my personal details. For the life of me I can figure out why. This is just to wierd. I have never EMailed anybody on this forum. There is a possibity that someone (I wonder who?) was using my Juno Email account (Pinky83@Juno.com) while I was at work (among other things that went on while I was at work). I no longer use that account because I changed the password when I discovered the "fling" and later forgot it.

As for GI/DGI, one of "Hardliner's" major complaints was that I refused to talk about Y2K with him. Not so, I just don't want to spend every waking moment talking about it. Being unemployed, he spent countless hours on the net and it became like an obsession to him. Myself, on the other hand, had to deal with the realities of survival in the real world. I can understand that he needed something to do to fill his time, but he did not have to fill it with his "CyberLover".

By the way, I did leave several unpleasant voice-mails on "Chris's" mobile phone. It was really stupid of them both not to know about *69. If you still think I'm an imposter the mobile phone number is : XXX-XXX-XXXX. When I did speak to her and asked her how she could do this to me the response was "I'm not doing anything wrong. I shouldn't be talking to you...We're having lunch". Click.

Rhoda L. Bolls

-- Soon to be ex- Mrs Hardliner (vbKinder@hotmail.com), December 14, 1999.

Hard to respond...no easy, glib words to heal the problems, nor to remove the pain.

Worse in cases when there is no personal connection nor feedback to validate the written word typed. You don't know the effect of wha tis written, nor what kinds of effort would help.

A society, a friendly group, a house - or any other any structure, relies on its foundations, then its framework of mutually reinforcing members, then the links between those members to resist the stress and forces acting from without.

Connections "glue" those members together - trust, when you consider people's relationships, is that glue. It comes from consistent bounds, from limits and aknowledged boundaries, and becomes either stronger over time, or weaker as relationships weather and mature. Most of all, trust can only remain based on input from all - if lost, it cannot be regained. If weakened or lost, the flaws remain - sometimes below the surface, sometimes as voids and stress cracks, sometimes visible on the surface.

But they always remain until the flaw is removed, the default laboriously removed, and the material replaced until "like new" - but is never "the same as bfore." The repair is always visible, even if painted over - the original defect remains in memory - and remains a stress riser - a pressure point that isn't as good as orignal.

When members are lost in a relationship (or in building), or when trust is broken at a joint where two or more members are joined together - the remainder are always weakened.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), December 14, 1999.

Wherever the truth falls here, it is a very good reason why virtual encounters need to be supplemented by face-to-face (and I'm not referring to romantic encounters).

I have met a number of the key TB2K regulars, though by no means all, and have been getting to know them in "real life" ever since. Crucial. And, Robert, we almost met -- your meeting Flint on that occasion, qualifies.

Anonymity is legitimate but not sufficient in the long-term.

Meanwhile, we still need laughs more than ever, FRL-ians. We live in a world where the code was "broken" long before Y2K and "remediation" continues apace until He whose right it is comes .....

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), December 14, 1999.

OK, it seems that Mrs. Ex-Hardliner IS legitimate, although it appears that she and Hardliner were never actually married. I read the postings from "The Devil's Advocate" and they DO sound like Hardliner. You can read them all yourself. I will post a few of his thoughts here. This is not to condemn or condone, just to share:

"No, we are not married. We have been together over 10 years, based on mutual need and free will on both sides. I have not done anything that I have promised not to do, and I have done nothing that I am ashamed of.

The 'painful ending' may well be in the cards, but I am in no hurry to get there if it is, and you are right on the money as to the existence of other problems that preceded this experience. I do not mean that those problems justified anything, but they may well explain a few things.

I understand both sides of the coin, as it were, since I can hardly fail to see my 'real world' partner's pain, hurt and agony. I promised absolute honesty, and I tell you quite honestly, that I would gladly take that pain and hurt on myself rather than see my SO experience it. It's just as if someone who wanted to hurt me did not injure me, but broke my puppy's leg instead. The trap is perfect however, since I did it to myself, and have no one to point the finger at. If you are anything like me inside, you know that such an action hurts far worse than injury to your own person. I did not intend to hurt my SO, and I did not intend to hurt myself either. Yet, I have done both, and while I do not in any way, shape or form mean to suggest that my hurt is greater than theirs, I nevertheless hurt also.

I have indeed been giving much less to my SO than I am capable of, but that is not to say that I have not offered it. From my perspective, I have in fact offered all of my self, and have found much of it rejected. I am for a fact, tired of that. I am, and will remain my SO's friend, if for no other reason than that I promised to be so.

I agree completely that a reconciliation of values is necessary. Such will not however, alter the past, and does not address the issue of how to handle the new awareness of the feelings (or lack thereof) of the other party. I have been told, for example, that trust is gone forever, and that there is no 'going back'. On the one hand, I have no wish to re-experience the problems of the past, but on the other, with no prospect of anything better and no hope of trust, what's the point?

I do care very much about my SO, but after a lot of years of less than optimum, I want something to change. I could have very well gone into the 'real' world for that change, but I didn't. I role played with an anonymous playmate, and now you seem to want to crucify me as if it were real and had taken place in reality!

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), December 14, 1999.

Yes, when I first found out I was livid and did say there was no going back. But soon after and for 2 months I tried to get him to quit and work things out. Once he was caught in his little game, I think he figured "In for a penny, In for a pound". I know I'm an outsider here, and you'll beleive what you want to believe. Things were not perfect, thats true. Nothing I have ever done or failed to do has justified this. Gayla, why didn't you include the parts about "feeling and saying things that would be out of bounds in real life"? If you feel these things they are real enough. The fact that those two are probably consumating their relationship hurts me far less than the fact that he professed love for her in the first place. In recent days I've heard alot about my flaws and some of it is true. None of it warrants the way I've been treated. When a mate strays it seems that they can always find fault. No we were not legally married, but we both present ourselves as such and Texas is a Common Law state. 15 years is still 15 years.

-- Rhoda (vbKinder@hotmail.com), December 14, 1999.


I've had discussions with both "Hardliner" and Chris,including one with Chris just before she left for Canada. Canada is where Chris was born and grew up. That is where she planned to bugout to.

In my conversation with Chris she told me she would be leaving with her children to get her retreat ready and that her husband would be joining her just before the rollover. I've even seen pictures of she and her husband along with her children.

Chris does not have a computer with her as far as I know, though she had thought about getting a laptop. I did know that Chris and her husband had difficulties and Chris had been open with her frustration with his inability to GI. Yet, she was very happy when I corresponded with her the last time and mentioned, in detail, the plans for both she and her family AND her husband. Many people on this forum have contacted Chris regarding her situation. I know that Hardliner was also very helpful with her in this regard.

However, this doesn't mean he is with her somewhere in Texas. I'm sorry, but I feel as if you may have jumped to some wrong conclusions here. I know some other details regarding this so called "relationship" that you have decided to air here and I am left puzzled.

I'd like you to answer a few questions.

What I would like to know, for confirmation, is who is "Juanita M Hernandez" and what are the numbers in Hardliner's Juno email address? My email address, located below, is real and if you'd like to email that information to me I'd appreciate it.

When was the last time you talked with him, directly?

Is Hardliner still active military? If not, can he be called back to active duty based upon his rank or training?

Is it possible that Hardliner has simply moved out or even bugged out?




-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), December 14, 1999.

What the hell is going on here??? Is this for real?

Has anyone here actually met Hardliner face to face? He has never used a real email address. I calculated his age to be 60+ based on his posting about a year and a half ago about being on a particular submarine in the 1950's. If I remember correctly, Chuck and he had a conversation about the sub being docked in Detroit now??


-- PNG (png@gol.com), December 14, 1999.

I too spoke with Chris right before she left for Canada to finish preparing the bugout place, and my recollection is the same as Mike's. The children were to get out of school around the 20th and they and their father were then to fly up to Canada to join Chris.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), December 14, 1999.

Stone-solid FURIOUS crushed. I ACTUALLY looked up to him. I ACTUALLY thought he understood the meaning of giving one's word, whether through a vow ceremony or simply 1 to 1. He doesn't owe any of the FRL-ians CRAP but some sort of explanation might be in order.

the only debt owed is one that he doesn't have the coin to pay.



PS (The reference to conversing was via posts or e-mail in which the comment was made that you were looking over his shoulder and made a specific comment, or some such)


-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 14, 1999.

I got back just in time I guess. I sure would have hated to miss this one.

FWIW: I don't think that I believe it, even knowing how those "flyboys" are, I still don't believe it. Since it's none of my business in any event, I do believe that I will just get on with my life.

Bet it screws up Santa Claus for the Hardliner household either way though.

Sir Rob,

The count for #14 was 113 as of Ms. Diane's pointer to this thread.


As we went through Huntsville I thought of you and of your little limerick and I busted out laughing. Made the day a little brighter. That one is stuck back into my memory sack, to be dusted off as needed. Thanks, and take care.

This is #26.


-- sweetolebob (buffgun@hotmail.com), December 14, 1999.

I don't have enough information to reach any conclusions here. Perhaps others do. If this is actually on the level then don't you think it would be better for folks to get together and discuss it offline and hopefully resolve things if possible? In my opinion, the FRL is probably not the optimum place for further discussion of this particular subject. It is possible that further posts may make things worse, for even wise words and those that are well intentioned may go astray and be interpreted differently than intended.

As I have written so often, even in the very post that started this thread, we still need laughter more than ever, and the FRL has for over a year has served that purpose. My remarks should in no way be construed by anyone as my being insensitive towards any of the folks in the middle of this. On the contrary, I feel it would be most helpful for those that feel the need to continue future discussions to do so offline - with anyone who wants. Several folks have provided real 'e's. Use them, if you feel you can help in some way.

I motion that we get back to "FRLian business".


PNG? Welcome! I didn't know that you lurked at the FRL! Actually, this gives me an idea for the next FRL thread :) but I won't be able to get to it tonight. How are you doing and how are things in Japan? I feel sure that I am not the only one who has thought of you and have missed your insightful, elucidating posts. Best wishes to you and hope you are feeling well.

S.O.B. - Thank you, O Great One, Knower of All You Know, and Official Keeper of the Count. BTW, what's the latest with Mother Goose?

-- (sonofdust@backto.business), December 14, 1999.

Oh Great and All Knowing Leader,

I just got back from a quick trip up to "Yankee Land", just north of the Smith & Wesson line, where I was born, so I can't tell yet just how it goes with the geeses. I *can* tell you that it was getting colder than a well diggers fanny on the shady side of the South Pole up there, and that I have decided that I would open up my pickle ranch here in Louisiana instead.

I will check on "Mother Goose" in the morning (late in the morning) and will let you know wuzzup.


# 29


-- sweetolebob (buffgun@hotmail.com), December 14, 1999.

Rhoda -- Thanks for making us all think a lot more seriously about our partners -- I've been through that betrayal and it shook me more than I could have imagined. I feel vulnerable now in a 2nd marriage, and humbled that I apparently haven't learned to do it much better after another 20 years.

Please stick around and let the community respond to you. They are good people. You sound like you have a lot to offer.

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), December 15, 1999.

"Juanita M. Hernandez" is fake. I don't know the numbers on the Juno Email account(s) or how many there are. That name is a very common Spanish surname, not unlike Jane Smith. Not active military. Last spoke to him approx 5:30 PM, Saturday 11 December, 1999 when I dropped him off at where he was to meet her. 50+ years old. I was told that this woman and her husband were divorcing and that her kids were grown but still lived at home. Read earlier references to her getting a laptop. Does not seem to match up to what y'all know. Hmmm.. go figure. Gone to his bugout; I don't think so. We live(d) on 11 1/2 acres in rural Texas and have lotsa preps that we (I)m have nearly gone broke over. Helping her with Y2K.... Come on now. He all but admitted that his CyberLover was "Chris". If you wish to converse with me the Email address I use is real. I'm not gonna post here any longer because I have become just as obsessed as he is and I have had my say. He poisoned my relationship with my best firend (him). Just thought I'd give him a taste of his own. He has made his bed so to speak.


-- Rhoda (vbKinder@hotmail.com), December 15, 1999.

Rhoda, I am so very sorry that you are so dreadfully unhappy. But you say, "He all but admitted that his CyberLover was 'Chris'." I have a terrible feeling you are putting two and two together and making 222. Could you have possibly mistaken mutual empathy over not-perfect relationships for something more? Please, unless you have other than circumstantial evidence that Chris has "run off" with your ex-partner, do not risk sullying the reputation of someone I consider a good friend. Let's not rush to judgment on this matter.

Okay, Rob, sorry, back to FRL matters. Thanks.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), December 15, 1999.

Rob, PLEASE start a new thread! PNG, good to see you again!

Rhoda, whatever is going on, I am very sorry for your pain. I hope you have someone in real life that you can turn to. My husband (20 years) is a programmer, and frequents a bulletin board for programmers. If something like this happened with him, I would never even consider posting to that bulletin board about what happened. Your intent was to hurt Hardliner, but in turn, you hurt all of us. I hope you find peace.

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), December 15, 1999.

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