Red Flag: Why Paul Milne is a Polly Thread

There is something about this one that bothers me. Coming from a .mil site and he wants to be part of BigDogs chat group.

eagle.dcandr.ang.af.mil

???

Diane

Why Paul Milne is a Polly

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/admin-q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000w5S

Asked by c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com) from 131.60.151.254 on June 10, 1999.

Postings from 131.60.151.254 in the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) forum

Doing a reverse DNS now: 131.60.151.254 maps to ... eagle.dcandr.ang.af.mil

Threads responded to under this DNS...

c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com) on 1999-06-10: Response to Why Paul Milne is a Polly

c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com) on 1999-06-10: Why Paul Milne is a Polly

homer (homer1175@yahoo.com) on 1999-06-02: Response to Paging Yourdonites For Chat On Various Subjects

homer (homer1175@yahoo.com) on 1999-05-28: Response to Y2K is the LEAST of our problems...it will only make a bad situation WORSE.

Homer (homer1175@yahoo.com) on 1999-05-26: Response to Will the rats, soon be leaveing the sinking ship?

NOTE:

BigDog... this guy wants to sign up for your chat group as homer.

Paging Yourdonites For Chat On Various Subjects

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/admin-q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000tv3

BigDog,

Add me to the list

Answered by homer (homer1175@yahoo.com) from 131.60.151.254 on June 02, 1999.

Other threads homer has posted on...

Postings by homer1175@yahoo.com in the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) forum (main admin page)

Response to I've just found poole's brain and here it is! (1999-06-07)

Response to Paging Yourdonites For Chat On Various Subjects (1999-06-02)

Response to Y2K is the LEAST of our problems...it will only make a bad situation WORSE. (1999-05-28)

Response to Will the rats, soon be leaveing the sinking ship? (1999-05-26)

Interesting comments from homer...

homer (homer1175@yahoo.com) on 1999-05-28: Response to Y2K is the LEAST of our problems...it will only make a bad situation WORSE.

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/admin-q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000se3

INVAR,

I'm new to this forum, but have been GI for a couple of years.

Right on the money. We are spread too thin. WAY too thin.

BTW for a low yield device you use U235. For high yield stuff take your U235 and place it in a Fermi Pile and "cook" it. The cooking process forms a certain percentage of Pu, the details are in Gamov's book on the Atomic Bomb published in '46. Essentially, a highly motivated 1st year physics student could build on in his backyard.

INVAR do what you gotta do. Peace.

Answered by homer (homer1175@yahoo.com) from 131.60.151.254 on May 28, 1999.

And...

Homer (homer1175@yahoo.com) on 1999-05-26: Response to Will the rats, soon be leaveing the sinking ship?

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/admin-q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000sEi

A Contact of mine recently was at an Emergency Prep meeting at O.C. Maryland last week. This is what is going to happen with D.C. at the "Transition" -the new unofficial term.

During the recent NATO conference, they shut down the city, as in ghost town, birds chirping, squirrels running across Penn Ave.

The current plan is shut doen the city for approx 14 days starting 30 DEC 99.

Answered by Homer (homer1175@yahoo.com) from 131.60.151.254 on May 26, 1999.

And...

Response to I've just found poole's brain and here it is! (1999-06-07)

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/admin-q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000vCG

Andy,

ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO

Answered by homer (homer1175@yahoo.com) from 207.115.62.38 on June 07, 1999.

Now coming in on a proxy server...

Postings from 207.115.62.38 in the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) forum

Doing a reverse DNS now: 207.115.62.38 maps to ... proxy5.ykt.prodigy.net

Curious, huh???

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

Answers

Zowie! Keep tracking ...

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

Leska,

Just flagged Ed, and sent him an invite to join us in here.

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

Why Paul Milne ....

This is very interesting. I'll take a closer look. Maybe Arlin can tell us whether militia guys are likely to be .mil as well.

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

BigDog,

We need a military guy who can figure out where this...

eagle.dcandr.ang.af.mil

...is really coming from.

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

What about that guy who always signs off "eagle" at the end of his posts?

Harold something? Harold Walker? That's not it, but we remember something ...

No Search Engine is a huge impediment!

Gotta go to No Worries office now, gnashing teeth -- ain't nothing as interesting as this!

[ No, we haven't told Melinda ANYTHING, and won't. Safety in anonymity. ]

xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

Okay,

Under the SWITCH WHOIS Gateway, search site...

http:// www.switch.ch/search/whois_form.html

And checking under the search spot for... US Defense Network Information, by Department of Defense Network Information Center

ang.af.mil

Air National Guard (ANG-DOM)
3500 Fetchet Avenue
Andrews AFB, MD 20762

Domain Name: ANG.AF.MIL
PLA: ANG//ANDREWS AFB//MD 20762

Technical Contact:
Mosteller, Anita [Senior Systems Engineer] (AM20)
(301) 836-8889 (DSN) 278-8889 (FAX)(301) 836-8952
NOSC@ANG.AF.MIL

Administrative Contact:
Gross, Janet [GS14] (JG34)
(301) 836-8889 (DSN) 278-8889
NOSC@ANG.AF.MIL

Record last updated on 19-Mar-99.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS.ANG.AF.MIL 131.63.213.10
ANGDNS.ANG.AF.MIL 137.9.20.3

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

Time to check out the Air National Guard web-sites.

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

Diane,

he's coming out of the Air National Guard Facillity at Andrews Air Force Base here in the DC metro area...

Arlin

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

Thanks Arlin.

Air National Guard

http://www.ang.af.mil/

Note: Webmaster: SMSgt Tejada, eduardo.tejada@ngb.ang.af.mil
Phone: DSN 327-5373, Comm: (703) 607-5373

Links to ANG and AF sites

http://www.ang.af.mil/ anglinks1.htm

Links Our ANG Leaders -- Meet our Leaders

http://www.ang.af.mil/ leaders.htm

Site Tree

http:// www.ang.af.mil/sitetree/siteframe.htm

Note: *External Links ANG/SCIP: Mr. Cary D. Algood, DSN 327-5365; MSgt Gina Goula, DSN 327-5370 gina.goula@ngb.ang.af.mil

See also...

Maryland Air National Guard

http://www.mdang.ang.af.mil/

Note e-mail of... webmaster@mdang-balt.ang.af.mil

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

C4i or someone claiming to be c4i just started a new thread...

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000wIA

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

Thanks Kevin.

Checking.

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

Weak Link

Why didn't any polly refute our theory today?

BTW we are not trolls, trolling or otherwise. And as for the folkes wondering what government workers are doing on this site during the day, two words: Gathering Intelligence.

Arlin, does your militia unit fall under the discpline prescribed by Congress?

Asked by c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com) from 207.115.62.41 on June 10, 1999.

Postings from 207.115.62.41 in the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) forum

Doing a reverse DNS now: 207.115.62.41 maps to ... proxy3.ykt.prodigy.net

Coming through a proxy now.

Hummm. Could be a troll.

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

did you all see this on the original thread? =====================================================================

I've been lurking for awhile, and boy are you DoD guys thick. As an old Air Force Command Post weenie this stuff is pretty plain.

"Sometimes you can't cee the status of things until they are sorted out." -LOL

cee=C status=status sorted=SORTS (Status Of Reports and Training) SORTS C Status- Refers to readiness levels

" Perhaps the third oppropriate thing is to report that. Then I'll make a beeline home, that would be the pinnacle."-LOL

third=3 oppropriate=OP report=REP beeline=BEELINE (Code for Pentagon) pinnacle=PINNACLE (Code for Nuke Incident)

OPREP3 BEELINE PINNACLE

-Real Cute -ROTFLMAO

I don't know if this guy is real or if he got a copy of the AFMAN 10-206 Operational Reporting and is screwing with us. He knows the right code though. And the DCID stuff, that is the new way of listing a Top Secret clearance.

-- phred (y2kdudeman@yahoo.com), June 10, 1999. ===================================================================

I knew that was some kinda code!!! lol ============================================================

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

The post is legit. We got an eMail earlier -- a for-real verifiable eMail, which we verified. Somebody is serious and has incredible nitty-gritty good-sense fact-gathering.

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxx

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

You're gonna LOVE this Mike but "phread" from the first thread is "c4i" on the second Weak Link thread.

Answered by phred (y2kdudeman@yahoo.com) from 207.115.62.41 on June 10, 1999.

Postings from 207.115.62.41 in the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) forum

Doing a reverse DNS now: 207.115.62.41 maps to ... proxy3.ykt.prodigy.net

Postings from 207.115.62.41 in the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) forum

Doing a reverse DNS now: 207.115.62.41 maps to ... proxy3.ykt.prodigy.net

c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com) on 1999-06-10: Response to Weak Link

c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com) on 1999-06-10: Response to Weak Link

c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com) on 1999-06-10: Response to Weak Link

c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com) on 1999-06-10: Response to Weak Link

c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com) on 1999-06-10: Response to Weak Link

c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com) on 1999-06-10: Weak Link

phred (y2kdudeman@yahoo.com) on 1999-06-10: Response to Why Paul Milne is a Polly

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

Arlin,

In keeping with NOT posting personal info... on...

Why Paul Milne is a Polly

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000w5S

[snip]

Now, this very important. Arlin Adams is an FBI informant!!! I and others have touched base w/ keeping an eye on him over the years. He is a older middle aged man who is not out in the world, he is partially disabled and does his investigations on the web and via phone contacts (with many groups that don't have everyones best interest in mind.) from his house in MD. 

[snip]

-- Sincere (4real@concerned.all), June 10, 1999.

What would you like me to do? Leave it? Or snip it?

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

Tom - you may not like the idea that there are a number of subversives on the board, and I'm sorry if that offended you, but the idea was to get the kid's attention...

Diane, no, if you haven't deleted it, I'll reply on the thread...

thanks,

Arlin

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

FBI? Thought it was the CIA. Whatever. Maybe it's both, plus more! Arlin hasn't exactly hidden his connections. If *we* picked hints of that up, the scavenging biffers certainly would. Large variety of spook snook snoops amongst us. So? Most of us have such boring normal humdrum lives ... zzzzzzzz ... who ya gonna call? ;^)

If that's deleted the PollySwags will thrash it til doomsday ;-D

xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

Arlin,

Taking a VERY light had with ANY deletes. Yes, the polly's would have a field day with that one.

*Sigh*

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

*sigh* the troll who posted that little accusation made a critical mistake - he didn't know that Russ (B.D.) had stayed at my place in Alexandria Virginia the night of the Northern Virginia get together...and thus I obviously do not live in Maryland.

Kinda funny how God allows those things to work out...wonder who that particular poster was?

Arlin

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

Go check out the Weak Link thread, Arlin,

"Sincere" is at it again... not you, but posting.

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 10, 1999

I was at the "recent answers" page of the forum about two minutes ago. Here's what the first three answers were...

[snip]

Why Paul Milne is a Polly (134 new answers, last on June 11, 1999)
WHY I THINK c4i IS A DOOMER TROLL (49 new answers, last on June 11, 1999)
Weak Link (62 new answers, last on June 11, 1999)

[snip] That's quite a reaction!

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

red flag

Arlin -- I don't doubt that there are "subversives" among forum posters -- whatever the definition of "subversive" may be these days. It's one thing for Falwell & Robertson, maybe another thing for Gingrich & Barr. Just don't think it was prudent to tweak whoever is behind c4i like that, also it was too much like Joe McCarthy's scattershot accusations.

I've been 'favored' over the years with the chance to converse with some folks in covert operations. One in particular bent my ear for 2 hours. This had to do with a topic I'm reasonably familar with, and it was very clear that some of the things I was being told were being told to me just to see what I would do with them later. (Some of it was factual, so far as I could tell, and some of it not.)

I learned a lot more by listening to these folks than by telling them what I thought, or giving them advice. For instance, that fiction can be mixed with fact, often cleverly concealed.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

folks, Hilary and I are in receipt of an e-mail that is from someone who had to come out from behind his handle to answer an innocent quetion on my part a couple months ago.

c4i is a very sophisticated troll. He was probably a DoD employee at one time, but his "codes" are at least 2 years out of date. It's my guess that he/she is a disgruntled ex-employee, having a little fun. My fear is that he will make some very good people look like fools when/if it comes out. Please email as many other fellow travellers as you see fit. Warn them off of this guy! This person has just enough knowledge to sound like he knows what he is talking about, but not enough to be real or current. I'm afraid you'll have to take my word on that.

Sorry I cannot be more explicit, but Arlin was more accurate than he knew. The forum *is* being spot-checked, especially for militia activity. We live in interesting times. No need to be paranoid about it; exercise your rights to free speech, but be prudent in who you engage.

[if you choose to forward/post the above portion, sign it as "a GI DoD Regular", with appropriate editing. I've been dying to challenge this guy all day, but just cannot without revealing my position. Call me a coward if you will].

FWIW I DO believe the e-mail.

Chuck

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

Chuck,

Thanks for the heads up on that email. But, I'm still a little confused here.

What about the .mil address? If this person(s) is an ex-employee then that doesn't seem to fit.

Also, it makes perfect sense that we are being monitored especially with regard to militia activity, etc. Could it be possible that any errors, etc. in the post are intentional? That is, that this is a way of showing obvious knowledge of the inner workings without letting go of sensitive material.

Or, what if this person is ex-military, working as a civilian in some capacity for the military, as they suggest in the first paragraph of the initial post.

The thing that really puzzles me is that the info with regard to their scenario wasn't anything *new*. That stuff within the possibilities is thrown around all the time in the forum.

It's the thought that there might be a splintering within the ranks that is bothering me, exciting me, etc. This makes perfect sense. If the CINC and the gov aren't willing to act then the frustration would be building inside those that want to warn the public, get them motivated, work against the spin machine.

I dunno...too many holes seem to be almost intentional and there are so many different points of view just among the people who post with knowledge of the DoD that it's tough to figure out what is real and what isn't.

It is fun though, and at this point in time, with my mind already made up for the most part, I actually enjoy this kind of intrigue. I don't see how this person is doing any damage. If anything, I think it pushes buttons on the side of getting people to prepare.

Mike ================================================

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

well, given that I'm still in the newly married category, I shouldn't even be paying attention to this stuff right now...on the other hand that fancy Italian place where we ate supper last night fed me stuff which my system is currently reminding me that I'm *not* accustomed to eating, so for the present:

1. Tom - yes, there is a reason intelligence is referred to as 'the maze of mirrors'...always hated that part of it - after a few years I got to the point where I literally did not trust my own mother...so I simply don't play those games any more...

2. Diane - I'll check it out when I get up for real...questions: is sincere online at the same time as, Paul Davis, or Craig from canada - both of them are facile liars and both of them really do NOT like me.

3. Chuck - of course we're monitored. Not only do you have folks like myself, you also have a number of radical libertarians, as well as reps from both the white supremacists (Anonymous99 - who tried to recruit me about a year ago, and is extremely upset because I *hate* neonazis) and the 'freeman' movement (the guy from CA who posts as Mark Hillman and also as Freeman)...

4. Mike - the game you're suggesting would get the player in as much trouble as simply compromising classified information straight up...it's possible that someone who was relatively naive about that sort of thing might try it, but not anyone with experience in dealing with security related issues.

Arlin

who is going back to bed...thankyou very much...

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

Didn't mean to indicate it was even a small surprise as far as monitoring. OF COURSE we have interesting people here. I LOVE this place just because of that.

Chuck

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

Turf danders up, ahoy! : on the Why Paul Milne is a Polly Thread

This is one of the worst spoofs I have ever seen. Too many obvious mistakes and gaffes to waste much time on.

I am Director, Year 2000 International Security Dimension Project, US Naval War College. No pretend names from me. Bio at both NWC site and at personal site at geocities.

Check out our site at
http://www.nwc.navy.mil/dsd/y2ksited/y2ksite.htm  at War College, or, for .mil-domain challenged, our duplicate at geocities:

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/6926/y2ksite.htm

We're actually doing what this spoof artist claims to do.

The future is transparency.

-- Thomas Barnett (barnettt@nwc.navy.mil), June 11, 1999.

----------------------------------------------------
Everybody's watching everybody else ;^D

xxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

Arlin... do attend to your new wife... that's what is REALLY important!

;-D

This thing has more twists and turns that a writhing snake.

"Arlin was more accurate than he knew. The forum *is* being spot- checked, especially for militia activity."

That much has been OBVIOUS for a very long, long time. As well as, the NOT so obvious.

For the record, the first couple weeks that I arrived here last October, I could *see* some kind of game being played, and I *knew* it would be one of the hottest watched spots on the internet... by the DoD, FBI, CIA, alphabet agencies, et. al. My personal hope was that by posting and digging for info nuggets a la public source and open domain information gathering techniques that a group of dedicated researchers, with NO budget, could figure out what the heck was going on with Y2K and our government, et. al. And hopefully illustrate to them the need to PREPARE people rather than lie to them.

Prepared people dont panic. Its still the core truth, IMHO.

The need for more people to wake-up and prepare during the end-games is key to ALL of us making it through with grace and elegance. Or not.

All the spooks and counter-spooks can continue to play their little games. Arlin, if youre actually after the white supremists and Neonatzis then I say... Go get em tiger. Those people are just plain SICK! Gets my dander up too! Sorta like those Doc Paulie and cpr trolls. Waste of time and good energy.

At any rate, returning to c4i and the clear typo c41, this being was coming in on an Air National Guard ISP... UNTIL... Arlin warned him/her/it. That is what I find interesting. Then *somebody* comes in on a proxy and posts under related names phread and the new and improved c4i. Again, AFTER being warned. Now Im a point person for verification.

*Sigh*

Verification of what? Sheesh! I feel like Alice when she stepped through the looking glass!

Tom, Im with you on this one. Ya learn more by listening... for the fragments of truth.

Clearly this was not some *kid* Arlin. But I do understand that if you felt something was being compromised, that you had to warm him/ her. Thats cool. Just wish we could have found out more. Cest la vie.

I do have a homework assignment to contact a publisher for verification of an earlier story, to confirm who this group is. Well see. Stay tuned for more.

Oh, another thing. The responses on the various threads...

Thread #1...

Why Paul Milne is a Polly

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000w5S

Thread #2...

Weak Link

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000wIA

Thread #3...

WHY I THINK c4i IS A DOOMER TROLL

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000wKw

Thread #4...

c4i, how might you wish us best respond to your disclosures?

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000wOI

Thread #5...

Pageing c4i........ Answer please

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000wQN

... I found it utterly *fascinating* to see the responses of various regulars. They are NOT what I expected to see. So, I ask myself... Who IS who? I donno. And thats the truth.

Does it matter? Well, I dont know that one either. And it may not be important.

6 months and counting. I know to some... for the children sounds corny, BUT thats what motivates me.

Please DO *add* that to my file. BTW, the first two weeks I posted here it was also quite clear that my phone was being tapped. So what? I say.

Stay focused on whats important.

Diane

BTW, Ill look at the incoming for Sincere Arlin. Another proxy as I recall.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

red flag

Diane -- one listens not only for "fragments of truth." Even more interesting are the patterns to be observed among the untruths.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

Right Tom.

Arlin, et. al. the system only date stamps posts. It does not time stamp. Can't tell if someone is "connected" unless they use they same ISP. Or, in the case of both Kevin and I watching the "Reload/ Refresh" late at night and seeing Cherri/Mutha alternating posts.

Diane

Thread #1...

Why Paul Milne is a Polly

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000w5S

[snip]

First off,

There is No reason for me to believe that guy does not have a lead to real valid info. I have many contacts in Mil. and Gov. that etc.. that tell me quite similar things.

Next, the fact that he used a hotmail account is SOP. I, partners and friends do contract work at government and Military locations. Almost EVERY employee has 1 or many Yahoo &/or Hotmail accounts. Now moving on the any tracking of his IP.. I have installed systems at both government and military locations that have use of public ISP's.. meaning .org and .com (even some of their web sites. common known fact) The reasoning in some areas was just quite simple.. fault tolerance and getting the project done and running with out all the hassle and crap that you have to go through. If only you could imagine some of the degraded and convaluted paths many of these types of sites data flows you would never get a good nights rest. I once found that the main secretary to the commands commanding officer had her computer so mixed up (previous contractors, old programs, etc..) that when EVER she printed that it left her desk in VA went to TN and then to FL where they sent it back to her LPT1 port. The government and military have become wild big and hairy clutters of organizations with in organizations. No everything is managed well at all. We have seen this around the country and world.

As for the young lady who tells of what her friends (informed) son told his family and how they are preparing. I have many contacts who have been told the same. The problem is money to properly prepare and deciding how extended (family wise) you want to go in your family plan. Also not every family group or memeber can handle the truth. I gets a bit messy. But it just takes any one to contact any and all members of the military, gov., etc.. to see what they know and then plan accordingly.

Now, this very important. Arlin Adams is an FBI informant!!! I and others have touched base w/ keeping an eye on him over the years. He is a older middle aged man who is not out in the world, he is partially disabled and does his investigations on the web and via phone contacts (with many groups that don't have everyones best interest in mind.) from his house in MD.

Then as far as the missle launch code info that C4i gave out and some one questioned.. He is right. get real people.. how could you 1 truely believe the Pres. is the only 1 who has the code. So many simple business men hold higher security clearences than that figure head. And many many times other branches or departments with in the gov. and mil. don't even keep the Whitehouse informed of what they do. And secondly, once a missle site is compromised all you need are the keys not the codes ever.. the code is just a vehicle for the permission to launch to be given. Simple stuff that you get taught in grade school if the Q & A gets really interesting.

Why give this guy such a hard time? And why question his sincerity? Does this mean that many of you are not willing to bend or break a rule or order that you see as unjust in order to do a better good for many??

Answered by Sincere (4real@concerned.all) from 207.172.39.184 on June 10,1999.

[snip]

Postings from 207.172.39.184 in the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) forum

Doing a reverse DNS now: 207.172.39.184 maps to ...
207-172-39-184.s184.tnt10.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com

(note: if you just get the number again, that means the hostname could not be found.)

Sincere (4real@concerned.all) on 1999-06-10: Response to Why Paul Milne is a Polly

And...

Thread #2...

Weak Link

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000wIA

Robin,

the comment about being interns & cleaning many senerios off the floor looked to me like it was C4i playing with the words of Arlin Adams.

As for his senerio about the National Guard call up.. Wake up people!!!! Many Governers have already stated and it is public knowledge which states have gone public.

Now for the mention of 120 major cities.. I also have read this senerio and also have heard from my military contacts that the plan is to cordon off large cities, restrict travel, gate/fence and man ramps and major roads in and out of these towns.. this is very easy to do and they (reserve and NG can and do mobalize in 72hrs. But they are already on alert and have orders to not wait to be contacted but to report when they have an inkling that they are needed. This was the result of the Comex/Mobex drill.) The gov has put in orders for a lot of fencing, gates, an set up generator centers around the country. So this is also a no brainer. Of course C4i is correct with this.

Now for power being off in areas around the country for 3 - 4 weeks. I personally have heard from Federal officials, politicians, county officials, and even reps from the power and gas companies at meetings.. this time line is VERY easy for them to admit to. The concern is many dimensional. If the power companies have a loss in their SCADA system then when they do get some juice they have no idea how to regulate it and end up frying lines.. poping transformers (this causes all new delays, not to mention the lines in your house can fry up. Have you ever looked into how many claims the power companies pay out yearly for frying household appliances (fridges compressers are a biggy and so are home computers. [while in school I temped in a power companies operations and dispatch office]) Then there is the big problem of people running generators in their homes through their panels that have not installed the proper switch to prevent juice to the lines out of the house. This can kill the linemen working on blown transformers and also cause strange read outs. Australia went public this week with the fact that they could NOT guarentee power after the change over. UK, Canada(Operation Abacus), Australia all have plans for Federal type Martial law to begin in Dec.

As for a posters name being slightly different than once before. That is because many of us never hit the button to make it permanent and to accept the cookie. We just have to quickly retype the darn thing every time.

As for some of your strange comments about why would this group want to see this present form of Gov. toppled. gee? I can think of many orgs. within the gov. or mil. that have their picture of Utopia. It is true our present system stinks. The voting is a sham, the power broker or Pres. makers play puppet master to many, the gov. and mil. operate like a poorly run 8a company full of relatives and deep interoffice politics and bedhoping. It needs good spring cleaning like when you clean out the garage. Take EVERYTHING out to the drive way and make piles and sort. Alot of stuff would not be keepers as most of it is BROKEN or SOILED.

Also the posted success rate does not suprise me either. Look at the success rate for the Sun Streak project etc.. Not bad for a bunch of spokes. Many are still doing it but in private sector. Many of the scenerios also include the effects of the solar flare cycle.

I can't see why so many of you would bother to spend the time posting responses in such a juvenile manner when you can just take the info as it suits you and be better of for it or skrewed for taking it one way or another. So many comments here look as if so many of you are lost and can't come to your own conclusions on Y2K or other matters. It is sad. Learn to go with your instints. And get out there and knock on some accessable heads in your personal circle. You can find this info out there. It is not hard to find. Just because certain sectors out their have shown themselves to be more concerned with the ill fractional lending reserve, the on life support fiat cash system, and the over inflated market instead of genuine care for humanity does not mean you should just be one of the sheep and sit there all cow eyed and not more on the obvious warning signs. There are easy things all of you can do. One step at a time. Not a large cash investment in the first steps and then going liquid or deciding that you can keep warm or eat those things and getting more supplies becomes second nature. You really lose nothing and have so much to gain, even if for now it is just piece of mind and some good nights sleep. By shoppping around now and finding bargains now you save yourself a fortune due to inflation and the projected hard economic times next year + even if Y2K gets resolved by half of 2000.

GAO insiders and reports state that the DOD is the most behind in remediation. I personally know of some areas that are just going to wait til next year to be fixed. There are too many layers of DOD and just finding and identifing mission critical has been a big problem. Let alone getting the contracts for contractors to come in and fix it. Some hired contractors did not understand the scope of y2k or fully understand how to do what they were hired for and of course wait til the monkeys are jumping all around them before they admit they don't know how to do this let alone manage the project.

So what!! your scared.. (many of us are. fear is a great motivator. Why do you think you have the ability to fear any ways?) big deal!! deal with it!! (if your aren't scared about the events this next year then you are an idiot or in great dangerous denial)and then do something about it!! It is your responsibility to take care of yourself and your families. Bottom line.. Action and preparations makes piece of mind and puts you down the road to having more time to get in control of your life and your surroundings.

Stop bashing.. who gives a darn how "silly" we might look. Reality is aften soo many times more funny or unbelievable than fiction. Just look at those Darwin awards. Many of us out here risk alot when we speak out or share what we know. But many of us feel it is or bound duty to do so.

Answered by Sincere (Concerned@for.all) from 207.172.146.58 on June 10, 1999.

Postings from 207.172.146.58 in the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) forum

Doing a reverse DNS now: 207.172.146.58 maps to ...
207-172-146-58.s58.tnt3.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com

(note: if you just get the number again, that means the hostname could not be found.)

Sincere (Concerned@for.all) on 1999-06-10: Response to Weak Link

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

Another little tidbit the first thread Why Paul Milne is a Polly and the second thread Weak Link were both catagorized under GOVERNMENT.

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

Ah man! Just when youre wondering.

They make a post coming BACK IN on the Air National Guard ISP... 131.60.151.254 maps to ... eagle.dcandr.ang.af.mil

Diane

Thread #4...

c4i, how might you wish us best respond to your disclosures?

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000wOI

FM,

We don't, generally, reuse outlets for information-bad karma. No, there will not be a major story breaking. This is where we chose to place the information.

Our we going to be 100% -No Our we antigovernment -No, governemnet may be too big, bureaucratic, and slow to react to our wishes, but at least it listens, try the third world-we have and we didn't like it. Frankly, we hope we misread the data and wind-up making fools of ourselves. We are sure the Dee Cee food bank would like our donation in Feb 99 if everything goes okay. However we aren't going to risk that.

About disclosure. At no time was any FOUO or classified placed in this forum- at least not by us.

"Sincere" was the closest of any person, group, whatever on this forum. The information is there, trust your intuition, act accordingly. The people in charge are scared folkes, don't rock the boat, I'll hug my laptop all night, please dear God don't let this happen.

"If you know your history, then you'd know where your coming from." - Robert Marley

The sum of all answers is this: The world as we know, the power base as we know it, the economic and political systems as we know it are in twilight.

We are signing off, we will be lurking and releasing info as we can. We will have a new name. Diane, send us an e-mail if you don't mind, you will be our verification source when we reappear.

Answered by c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com) from 131.60.151.254 on June 11, 1999.

Postings from 131.60.151.254 in the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) forum

Doing a reverse DNS now: 131.60.151.254 maps to ... eagle.dcandr.ang.af.mil

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

See also...

This is one of the worst spoofs I have ever seen. Too many obvious mistakes and gaffes to waste much time on.

I am Director, Year 2000 International Security Dimension Project, US Naval War College. No pretend names from me. Bio at both NWC site and at personal site at geocities.

Check out our site at http://www.nwc.navy.mil/dsd/y2ksited/y2ksite.htm at War College, or, for .mil-domain challenged, our duplicate at geocities:

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/6926/y2ksite.htm

We're actually doing what this spoof artist claims to do.

The future is transparency.

Answered by Thomas Barnett (barnettt@nwc.navy.mil) from 205.67.218.30 on June 11, 1999.

Postings from 205.67.218.30 in the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) forum

Doing a reverse DNS now: 205.67.218.30 maps to ... 205.67.218.30

(note: if you just get the number again, that means the hostname could not be found.)

Thomas Barnett (barnettt@nwc.navy.mil) on 1999-06-11: Response to Why Paul Milne is a Polly

Thomas Barnett (barnettt@nwc.navy.mil) on 1999-05-20: Response to The M Curve of Elite Influence Over Y2K Event

Thomas Barnett (barnettt@nwc.navy.mil) on 1999-05-20: Response to The M Curve of Elite Influence Over Y2K Event

Thomas Barnett (barnettt@nwc.navy.mil) on 1999-05-20: Response to If You Like Being Manipulated, You'll Love This Thread! re: Naval War College

Thomas Barnett (barnettt@nwc.navy.mil) on 1999-05-20: Response to If You Like Being Manipulated, You'll Love This Thread! re: Naval War College

Thomas Barnett (barnettt@nwc.navy.mil) on 1999-05-20: Response to Everyone Needs to Read the Second Response to Jon Johnson's Panic thread (No Text.)

Thomas Barnett (barnettt@nwc.navy.mil) on 1999-05-20: Response to A good article on the govt. and PANIC

So... check out the DNS 205.67.218.30 onf the Switcher and...

Results from WHOIS server whois.nic.mil for query: 205.67.218.30

Naval War College (PNNM6-HST)
686 Cushing Road
Newport, RI

Role Mailbox: [None specified]

Hostname: PROXY.NWC.NAVY.MIL
Address: 205.67.218.30
PLA: NAVWARCOL NEWPORT RI

Host Administrator:
Phillips, Brian L. [Head, Info Services/GM13] (BLP1)
(401) 841-6557 (DSN) 948-6557 (FAX)(DSN) 948-4805
PHILLIPB@NWC.NAVY.MIL

Alternate Contact:
Parece, Natalie A. [Chief Web Development/GS12] (NAP)
(401) 841-3101 (DSN) 948-3101 (FAX)(DSN) 948-4805
PARECEN@NWC.NAVY.MIL

Record last updated on 04-Dec-98.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

Sheesh!

I need a drink.

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

wow...

One of my initial worries was that we were beginning to see a fracture within the ranks of the government/military. That is, that there are doomers and pollys within those entities just as there are among the rest of we the people and is it possible that we are seeing a revolt in the ranks to the SOS? (Standard Operational Spin : )

There is an obvious, strong feeling toward the "CINC" and "VCINC" in the first post but it's rationale, not the common anti-"Klinton" rheotoric. The guys and the gov just aren't acting like they should.

Sorry, but I'm still worried. Now we have c4i (initial poster) coming in off a .mil and Barnett coming in on the well known .mil.

I don't think that every c4i post was legit. Maybe none were. But, if that initial post was then I have a fear that perhaps there is a problem. The term "disgruntled" can be applied in a whole lot of ways and the employee doesn't have to be an "ex" employee.

Can this be the work of a militia/domestic terrorism group who actually work among the ranks inside the machine?

You're gonna have to forgive me but I make a living letting my imagination go crazy...

Mike ========================================================

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

Truly don't know on this one, Mike.

It's just "strange." Stranger still, is how many different posters react.

???

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

Diane,

There's another new thread about c4i at this link...

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000wSj

Thread title: "c4i is bogus"

The message that starts the thread has a point, but it strikes me as being an ad hominen line of reasoning. Has "The Count" posted anywhere else?

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

I think that this is like testing the waters for some military reason.

Why gather up a think tank when you can experiment with one that exists.

Is someone doing "what if's" on the forum to get reactions?

Or is Arlin right and some "kid" is going to lose his job.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

1. Diane - one of the historical jargon terms for intelligence work is 'the Looking Glass War'...now you understand why...we are on the edge of something that seems to have accumulated a whole bunch of attention from the big boys...great I spend the better part of the last decade attempting to remove myself from interaction with various intelligence agencies and then end up here...sheesh! In any case, we are NOT the first discussion board to be trolled by these folks - I got this response from a friend who lurks on TB2K, but doesn't post there:

>Great call!! I was thinking the VERY SAME THING when I saw this posted on >Silicon Investor.

which means that this is a standard approach being used by somebody or the other. In the meantime the stuff posted by 'sincere' *sounds* an awful like some sort of subtle recruiting pitch...do we have any idea where this guy is posting from?

2. you're also right that we need to stay focused on what's really important!

3. Ashton and Leska, you probably already did this, but it might be a good idea if you (or somebody) were to thank Mr. (Dr.? CDR?) Barnett for his input on that...somehow I'm not sure he'd want to get email from me saying thanks though...at least not to his work address.

4. Mike - yes there have been strong splits within DOD for at least the last decade. If you'd like I'll forward some of the commentary I get from another list on that topic, the next time I get one in. and no Mike, you ain't fubar - if you were REALLY fubar you wouldn't know you were fubar...:-)

Arlin

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

LOL... Arlin.

We're ALL fubar!

*Sigh*

RECRUITING for *what* Arlin!

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

Arlin,

The stuff posted above on "Sincere" is as far as I can go with the software.

Answered by Sincere (Concerned@for.all) from 207.172.146.58 on June 10, 1999.

Postings from 207.172.146.58 in the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) forum

Doing a reverse DNS now: 207.172.146.58 maps to ... 207-172-146- 58.s58.tnt3.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com

Question is... what is this? And how do you find out more?

207-172-146-58.s58.tnt3.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com

I'm stumped at this point. Somebody who understands the internet better will have to follow-up on it.

Diane

(BTW, Kevin, I'll check up on the "Count" after lurking).

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

Arlin, we can't thank Mr. (Dr.? CDR?) Barnett for his "input" to that thread because we aren't sure we agree. We don't think it is 100% spoof; we think turf grabs bristled; and ?Barnett did not say why he thought it was fake, or address any of the suppositions in question. His post was hit-and-run-rake and that is not helpful. We only thank when we feel it well up in the heart.

xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxx

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

A&L - hokay I understand...

Diane - not certain what he's recruiting for...am trying another source to check further on that dns.

Arlin

[who is going to sit down and eat supper with Mrs. Adams now...]

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

MORE INTERESTING STUFF:

'sincere' is coming in from EROLS.COM, Springfield VA. which is a local ISP here in the DC metro area - it is also the ISP to which the troll Pat has been traced.

BTW Erols has a policy against using their facillities to pass false and misleading information - if the sysop were to contact them, we might get this person flushed out of their system...

Arlin

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

I got another much longer "e" from c4i a little while ago.

Gotta sleep on it.

Sure looks like Air National Guard people to me... a group.

Puzzeling, huh?

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

another question and a general point that I've avoided saying, but needs to be explained at least to the present company:

1. question: was the ISP of the person posting as Barnett legit or not?

[DELETE Per Request -- Sysop]

So why is there a troll trying to pretend otherwise?

Arlin

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

Thanks.

I need to relax now. My brain is fried.

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

Oh,

Barnett looks legit. And he's posted several times. Look especially on the Navel War College thread.

Answered by Thomas Barnett (barnettt@nwc.navy.mil) from 205.67.218.30 on June 11, 1999.

Postings from 205.67.218.30 in the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) forum

Doing a reverse DNS now: 205.67.218.30 maps to ... 205.67.218.30

Check on "205.67.218.30" and you get the... results from WHOIS server whois.nic.mil for query: 205.67.218.30

Naval War College (PNNM6-HST) 686 Cushing Road Newport, RI

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

more on the trolls coming from Erols.com:

>>>>Doing a reverse DNS now: 207.172.146.58 maps to ... >>>207-172-146-58.s58.tnt3.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com

Also (note abuse address!):

Registrant: RCN (RCN5-DOM) 105 Carnegie Center Princeton, NJ 08540 US

Domain Name: RCN.COM

Administrative Contact: RCN Terms of Service (ETS3-ORG) abuse@RCN.COM 703-321-8000 Fax- 703-321-8316 Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Network Operations Center (EROLS-NOC) domreg@EROLS.COM 703-321-8000 Fax- - 703-321-8316 Billing Contact: RCN Accounts Payable (RA470-ORG) mhandler@RCN.COM 703-321-8000 Fax- - 703-321-8316

Record last updated on 03-Jan-99. Record created on 30-Jun-97. Database last updated on 11-Jun-99 09:51:31 EDT.

Domain servers in listed order:

DOMAIN01.DNS.EROLS.NET 207.172.3.20 DOMAIN02.DNS.EROLS.NET 207.172.3.21 OFFSITE01.DNS.EROLS.NET 206.138.112.20

-- Anonymous, June 11, 1999

Yes, it really was Barnett...

As soon as I read the first thread (..Milne...), I sent it to Tom...

His thread response contains some of his email reply to me...

He's real, very real. Spend some time at his web site and read about his daughter Emily.

And, no. I don't send stuff from private forums like this.

FWIW, the value of C4i posting is, will continue to be, the reactions he evokes...

Critt

-- Anonymous, June 12, 1999

Good grief! Thank God our responsibilities in life are simple. Would hate to have a senior moment and be shot on spot, and if sitting in front of a computer, likely to be absent-minded and just munch on the wafer, hhmm like vanilla ...

xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Anonymous, June 12, 1999

This is a curious little exchange, rambling in different directions, over at the DeBunker site re: c4i

If any swamp thread ever needed debunking, this is the one
Thursday, 10-Jun-1999 13:38:29

http:// www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb237006&MyNum= 929036309&P=No&TL=929036309

-- Anonymous, June 12, 1999

Yes, 'tis sobering to look at them things, handle 'em, load 'em.

Rather plain and innocent from the outside.

_______

Arlin, I think Looking Glass is not now flying all the time; I think it got put on standown when the rest of SAC shut down 7x24 war-readiness operations.

______

Diane - head of NWC at Newport RI (or a person purporting to be him) emailed me back; asked if I had any specific questions he could answer. With reason, what should be asked?

-- Anonymous, June 12, 1999

Robert,

First off, I'm trying to carefully study the posts. I think we're dealing with the REAL c4i mostly on the "Why Paul Milne is a Polly" thread and he comes in on...

Postings from 131.60.151.254 in the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) forum

Doing a reverse DNS now: 131.60.151.254 maps to ... eagle.dcandr.ang.af.mil

Then the second AND QUITE POSSIBLY FAKE poster (Debunkers?) started the new "Weak Link" thread and came in on....

Asked by c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com) from 207.115.62.41 on June 10, 1999.

Postings from 207.115.62.41 in the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) forum

Doing a reverse DNS now: 207.115.62.41 maps to ... proxy3.ykt.prodigy.net

I'm trying to figure out who is who.

A little later I'll post a new thread here on what the "real" c4i posted and another thread on what the "fake" c4i posted for comparison--also phred on first thread. (Seems like the "fake" one is doing all the attack on Arlin along with "Sincere").

Then I'm looking at the "unusual" responses and where they came from.

Finally I'm trying to see how that fits in with the e-mail I received.

Quite honestly Robert, it looks to me like "spooks" have come out of the woodwork on this one, and I have no idea who to trust. Understand?

Arlin's comments publically AND privately make me quite NERVOUS. And I don't particularly like feeling like I'm being set up for something.

Maybe yes, maybe no? Sheesh! It's all confusing to say the least!

As to... "head of NWC at Newport RI (or a person purporting to be him) emailed me back; asked if I had any specific questions he could answer. With reason, what should be asked?"

Gosh. Well for one... who is at the DNS: 131.60.151.254 which maps to ... eagle.dcandr.ang.af.mil? Second, are they "concerned" by anyone at the Air National Guard leaking "odd" things to the press?

That should do for starters.

Diane

(Trying to be methodical about studying this).

-- Anonymous, June 12, 1999

The DoD and otehrs are big boys, let them worry about who is leaking.

We need only be concerned about whether to listen to the dripping, stop the dripping, wipe it up off the floor, or or ignore the "dripper"....

-- Anonymous, June 12, 1999

I concur robert, given the openness of the forum. Diane should be OK, just so WE can have a yardstick to guage validity by.

CHUCK

-- Anonymous, June 12, 1999

Chuck,

Why does the statement... "Diane should be OK" not thrill me?

What is your definition of "WE?" (Now Arlin's got me doing it!)

;-D or ;-( Aaaarrrrggghhhh!

*Sigh*

Diane, alice@throughthelooking.glass2muchandpreferringsimpleoldY2K

(Will likely post the new threads tomorrow... brain fried again!)

-- Anonymous, June 12, 1999

How narrow is Diane? How long is Diane? Maybe we could use her as the yardstick? 8<)

Can't hide behind me...too skinny. But I do use 12" shoes, so I'll volunteer to be defeet.

-- Anonymous, June 12, 1999

man this is getting too weird...I don't know if you've thought of this stuff or what but I have and just wanted to sspout off for a bit.

Question regarding the Naval War College exercises. (I gotta say this, the site sent shivers up my back. I'd love to get a list of the attendees.)

Why would they make public their Y2k Project Site?

Is it to backhandedly make the public aware?

Why is Mr. Barnett so open to making a public statement regarding c4i?

How in the world was Barnett so quick to respond to the thread?

Who shared the comments of c4i or alerted Mr. Barnett?

What is gained by making public the agendas of the various workshops?

Obviously when you read the agendas of these workshops Mr. Barnett means serious business in "thinking through" various areas and impacts.

Who, on the inside, would want this information contained? (as in NOT out in the public domain)

Who, on the inside, would want this information out in the open?

Who would gain from keeping groups, possibly groups not sanctioned, from making public information which deeply concerns the government/military?

What are you all talking about with regard to Diane?

I'm totally confused.

Do "they" have access to this moderators site?

Doesn't email go through various servers before it reaches it's final destination?

How secure is e-mail?

Can a trap be placed on e-mail that allows it to be read by an agency before being sent along?

Why the heck didn't all this y2k bullshit get solved years ago so none of these stupid issues would have to even be raised?

Mike ==========================================================

-- Anonymous, June 13, 1999

Mike, Mr. Barnett lurks on this Forum, plus somebody probably eMailed him for his opinion when c4i started posting (not us!). We put a link up on csy2k to the thread, late at night. We didn't eMail anyone, tho.

No matter how high or low a position a person has, generally their ego is still in operation. Once a person posts, there is always a niggle of curiosity and ego-pull to see what the response might be, or what their thoughts may have sparked.

We see all the time ppl who announce their leave-taking and then post later, or say they pop in to lurk -- it's very addictive and interesting. So if a person has posted more than once, chances are good they will at least peek in every day or other day or so.

The rest of it -- who knows! When a person is dying there is all manner of intrigue and plotting within the family, healthcare team and neighbors, etc, but not such a grand scale as the .gov .mil ;^)
This is out of our league but it does seem pretty funny. We did notice that most of our eMails were coming from Air National Guard folk, and then that's what pops up on Forum -- the flyers must be more aware and bolder.

Whatever brainstorming .gov .mil engages in, still their mindset is sorta boxed. They won't be able to plan or react to the most important change of all -- the change Y2K will bring in the weeples' consciousness.

Cheers to "interesting" times!

xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxx

-- Anonymous, June 13, 1999

Mike,

Good questions. Mine this morning is... WHY DO I HAVE TO PUT UP WITH TROLLS because everyone gets their knickers twisted about "freedom of speech" when something's deleted!

There... I needed to VENT!!!

Last night someone embedded a plug-in to one of the threads... so in deleting it, I "got it."

I tried everything to find whatever "it" was and no luck so I've reformated my HD... AGAIN! Just getting operational... sort'a.

BIG BUMMER!!

(Vent off)

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 13, 1999

BTW, Gonna take a break today.. need to sleep and play.

Then get back to the project, maybe even tomorrow.

Diane, tired of computers AND trolls

-- Anonymous, June 13, 1999

Robert - stood them down?? oh man, the bean counters really do rule the world, don't they?

Arlin

-- Anonymous, June 13, 1999

DIANE PLEASE DELETE THIS NO LATER THAN TUESDAY MORNING here we go again folks:

Mike, let me see if I can help with some of your questions:

Question regarding the Naval War College exercises. (I gotta say this, the site sent shivers up my back. I'd love to get a list of the attendees.)

Why would they make public their Y2k Project Site?

rule of thumb: when the Republicans are in the oval office almost everything is classified , and when the Democrats are in the oval office almost nothing is classified. The reality is that there are some things which should be and some which should not be classified, but that reality is never reflected in the political policies of the executive branch.

since there's a democratic administration in power they were able to treat the exercise as unclassified since it was phrased in hypothetical terms, thus it got on the web site.

Is it to backhandedly make the public aware?

possibly, also showing off to the other services - see how relevant we are, that sort of thin...folks who like to do that sort of thing are known in some circles as 'powerpoint rangers' (after the business graphics package), since they're more interested in making political points than in warfighting skills.

Why is Mr. Barnett so open to making a public statement regarding c4i?

because he knows that c4i is some sort of intentional agitator and Mr. B. is trying to squash this one in the bud...serious problems...which gives a little clue to who c4i/serious may actually be working for, but none the less means that they are perceived by Mr. B. to be hostile to the interests of the United States and he just put his butt on the line to counteract them. If he says the wrong thing in the wrong place he could end up getting canned in such a way as to have no future job prospects in his profession.

How in the world was Barnett so quick to respond to the thread?

yea verily we have many lurkers, some of whom are apparently fairly heavy hitters in their own right.

Who shared the comments of c4i or alerted Mr. Barnett?

see above.

What is gained by making public the agendas of the various workshops?

see above about one-upping the other services. another benefit of putting something like that on their website is that many second and third world governments wont listen to their own people about problems like y2k BUT if their military can point to this site and say "look the US military is worried about this" then there will be leverage to get some of them off their butts and working on the problem.

Obviously when you read the agendas of these workshops Mr. Barnett means serious business in "thinking through" various areas and impacts.

yep.

Who, on the inside, would want this information contained? (as in NOT out in the public domain)

those who don't trust the American people and think they must control the situation/people - keep them from panicking, prevent panic driven shortages, yada yada you know the routine.

Who, on the inside, would want this information out in the open?

folks who don't agree with the first group.

Who would gain from keeping groups, possibly groups not sanctioned, from making public information which deeply concerns the government/military?

the first group

What are you all talking about with regard to Diane?

*ahem* Diane is our putative leader, therefore should something decisive be done by TPTB, she could end up with starring role.

I'm totally confused.

Do "they" have access to this moderators site?

sure...they can get into any of these that they have the mind to - they've got the personnel and equipment assets, it's just a question of allocation.

Doesn't email go through various servers before it reaches it's final destination?

a bunch, and each one keeps a copy of at least all of the header information, if not the entire message.

How secure is e-mail?

NOT AT ALL it's like sending postcards. The ONLY ways to secure your email are to either use one-time pads or a complex encypherment system like pgp with 1024 bit key or better.

Can a trap be placed on e-mail that allows it to be read by an agency before being sent along?

yep, but they don't have to - that's usually only used to let the person being monitored know that it's happening.

please read this next bit very closely and realize that if you ever credit it to me I'll deny it.

the U.S. government is only forbidden, in practice, from monitoring the communications of U.S. citizens within the United States territory. Since US territory ends in the upper atmosphere once the signals of those communications leave the atmosphere they become free game for monitoring. This includes microwave relays which, of course, continue to broadcast in a straight line far beyond the receiver array. I challenge you to make a long distance call, or even deal with the internet in a manner which absolutely precludes any signals going over either microwave relays or sattelite relays.

Why the heck didn't all this y2k bullshit get solved years ago so none of these stupid issues would have to even be raised?

because the both business and the government are more concerned with image than reality.

Arlin

-- Anonymous, June 13, 1999

Once typed, consider it's worldwide - IF the powers that be want it that way. A group that can reputedly eavesdrop on the conversation within the limo's used in Red Square will have no problem listening to anything else they wish.

Having said that, what do you do? Same thing as before. If you give in to fear and paranonio (-1 sp) , you've lost your independence as a person.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 1999

Arlin, thanks for the great response!

Robert, I totally agree. I wont be hindered in my search for the truth in any way.

Have you all had a chance to check out the Naval War College site yet? It will blow your mind!!! We doomers are NOT alone.

Check out one of the workship participants...and this is just one in a group of very high level people.

http://www.nwc.navy.mil/dsd/y2ksited/y2kmarra.htm

Jeff Gaynor

Mr. Gaynor serves in the Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Command, Control, Communications and Intelligence (OASD C3I). He is currently the Director of Y2K Operations there.

So...the big boys would be very interested in anything regarding Y2k and our little corner of the net, I suppose. Why is this only c3i though? Has "Computers" been left out purposely? Or is this another division all together?

Mike ============================================================

-- Anonymous, June 14, 1999

no place to hide

Arlin's got it right about federal monitoring. Back during the Vietnam war, when everybody knew we were bombing Cambodia, but it was supposed to be a secret, my brother and I would play a litle game on the telephone. He lived in Canada, I lived in Ohio. One of us would call the other, normal family rap for a bit, then he or I would say "Cambodia". This always generated an audible click in the earpiece, which both of us could hear. This click was distinctly different from the normal line noise that occasionally showed up. We took it for granted that this was one of the words that tripped NSA monitoring (probably just to a tape for later review.) Today's equipment is much more sophisticated, I'm sure.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 1999

So, Tom, in the spirit of openness...

If you give in to fear and paranoia, you've lost your independence as a person. -- Robert A. Cook

Huzzah! Absolutely!

I simply assume EVERYTHING I do IS monitored (whether or not thats true) and behave accordingly. And I dont loose any sleep over it either.

Leska and Ashton have kindly offered to purchase me a pair of steel- toed hiking boots if they win the lotto. Koskinen is first on my growing list of Washingtonians requiring a swift kick in the shins. Clinton is my favored second runner-up. I am now considering adding the special ops and intelligence and counter-intelligence people and certainly the Debunker trolls to my list.

BEWARE! I say, lest you meet me in person and Im NOT wearing my moccasins!

;-D

There. That should sent shivers down their monitoring spines.

;-)

At any rate, got *some* not enough badly needed rest... inbetween phone calls. (Good chatting with you both again, Leska and Ashton). Also had a two-hour conversation with a sometimes poster, very involved in his states Y2K efforts who happens to be one of the early fathers of the internet. Since Im pretty clueless when it comes to the tech side of how it all works, Ive explained our little dilemma with c4i to him and had him do some tracerouting checks on some of the DNS codes. BTW, I trust him implicitely.

Basically, he concurs.

We are dealing with two different c4i posters. The Real one pings and traceroutes back to Andrews Air Force Base. The Fake c4i pings and traceroutes all over the place but ends at White Plains, N.Y. The headquarters of Prodigy perhaps? Or... big question mark? Hummn. Isnt IBM headquartered in White Plains? Just a thought.

Also had him test some other DNS codes.

Barnett for one. His nwc.navy.mil at 205.67.218.5 appears quite real. (That number code is called an octet, BTW, and each one of the dots can go to a total of 255. Enough numbers so that every man, woman and child could have their own octet and there would still be codes left over). Anyway, it took twelve jumps, to get to Barnett (whatever that means) but he definitely traces back to where he says he is. My deep internet contact found that very intriguing. And wondered why would he get involved in poo-pooing a supposed hoax?

Many other posters come in on dot mil sites too. But the curious stuff is that some of the posters tracerouting does things Ive never seen before... his words. Some timeout, and some hit firewalls, and some just took pathways that he thinks end up overseas.

In reviewing the four threads in question, he comes to the same conclusion... something pretty fascinating is going on and a awful lot of DoD, other dot mil, dot gov and unknown people came out of the woodwork to pour baking-soda on a perceived fire. And someone went to a lot of trouble to imitate c4i as a debunking endeavor, and attack Arlin in the process.

I will return to the diligent research and dissection of this curious bombshell that dropped into our little corner of the internet, a bit later, after dealing with the moderator issues today.

Since this group says theyll re-contact me, like Arlin, I have a vested interest in figuring this puzzle out.

*Sigh*

BTW, the publisher they wanted contacted is WorldNetDaily. Reread the real c4is last REAL post to FM....

Thread #4...
c4i, how might you wish us best respond to your disclosures?

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000wOI

Curious, huh?

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 14, 1999

don't see why I have to keep entering a Subject for these responses

Interesting rundown there on c4i and wannabe clones thereof. The fire brigade certainly slid down the poles in a hurry.

BTW the URL given is no longer alive:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000wOI

-- Anonymous, June 14, 1999

Whew... scared me Tom.

Still there... check out the most recent comments on number one...

#1 -- Why Paul Milne is a Polly (Category: Government)

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000w5S

#2 -- Weak Link (Category: Government)

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000wIA

#3 -- WHY I THINK c4i IS A DOOMER TROLL (Category: Uncatagorized)

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000wKw

#4 -- c4i, how might you wish us best respond to your disclosures? (Category: Uncatagorized)

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000wOI

-- Anonymous, June 14, 1999

"don't see why I have to keep entering a Subject for these responses."

Tom, it must be because you are in Thread Mode and the rest of us are in Q&A mode.

Go figure.

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 14, 1999

whoa...this is getting stranger and stranger...

everything we know is in "twilight"?

man...I want to go back to sleep and NOT even deal with this stuff.

Yesterday I managed to finally get my wife to come and just let me show her the Naval War College site. I read some interesting little bullets to her including this one under "Onset Phase";

 Avoid using the military for any but the most dire emergencies, where saving citizen's lives is necessary. We may have to allow some areas that are hit with riots to be destroyed. We can promise the victims that rebuilding them will be our top priority afterwards. Avoid clashes as much as possible.

she didn't take it well. she said, "how can I believe this? it's a fake. this isn't real, just a fake website. those people aren't even real. how do you know they're even real people?"

*sigh* with tears in my eyes...I saw the light go on in her eyes and then the color drain from her face.

We're looking to borrow $1000.00 now from a line of credit and go full tilt in preps.

We've decided to be at ground zero if the bomb explodes, but far away if the sh*t hits the fan.

I held my little boy more than usual yesterday.

Mike ==========================================================

-- Anonymous, June 14, 1999

by the way, Sincere posted again to the Why Milne is a Polly thread and further attacked Arlin...

Why the heck did they pick Arlin?

Mike ====================================================================

-- Anonymous, June 14, 1999

Michael..

*HUGS*

We don't know WHY they are picking on Arlin. But I promise, by the end of the week, we'll figure it out!

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 14, 1999

yeah, that "Sincere" quack doesn't know his elbow from his a**. And what twerp would say caregivers have to fear Arlin? LOL! Idiot doesn't know a thing about caregiving. The fear is BEDSORES and rogue hospice nurses and maniac greedy "friends" or relatives who murder the patient for the $$. GREED. Same root problem as Y2K.

Morons abound. Caregivers have the most BORING lifestyle of any in the world, shut-in with the ill.

Diane, aim a little higher with your steel-toed boots ;^)

We're fed up with all the idiocy in this world.

Besides, nothing Arlin or trolls say will sway our uninformed opinion that Arlin has tentacles reaching through, over, under, and around the CIA, FBI, KGB, CINC, UN, NWO, UPS, NATO, PLATO, and NBC. So there ;P

xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxx

-- Anonymous, June 14, 1999

Tom - LOL! well done! I have friends who would do that sort of thing and then begin reading chili recipes after they heard the 'click'...we all wondered how long they spent before they realized that sometimes a recipe is just a recipe, you know? :-)

A&L - so how come I never get paid?? *sigh* and do you actually remember the PLATO educational system?? wow! I thought the army were the only ones who got stuck with that awful thing!!

Arlin

-- Anonymous, June 14, 1999

Posted a quick publisher response here...

what happened to C4i

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000xFB

-- Anonymous, June 14, 1999

red flag -- Looking Glass passes into history

A previous post on this thread mentions LookingGlass, the AF's airborne command post and last resort launch control authority. This site details its function and describes its evolution and recent transfer from USAF to USN, effective September, 1998.

On Sept. 25, the Air Force's venerable EC-135 aircraft will hand over its Looking Glass mission of command, control, and communications of the nation's strategic nuclear forces to the Navy's E-6B "Take Charge and Move Out" aircraft.

"Take Charge and Move Out" is referred to as TACAMO.

Arlin and maybe a few others here will note the Navy's increasing accession to command hegemony.

-- Anonymous, June 17, 1999

So... command, control, and communications... would be c3i?

Humm. What Y2K center just put a c3i person in charge?

Diane

-- Anonymous, June 17, 1999

This one...

Clinton's new Y2K Co-ordination office: ICC

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000xlS

-- Anonymous, June 17, 1999

Command Control Communications = C3

Command Control Communications and Intelligence = C3I

you need the intelligence input to keep the commanders updated on what's actually going on in their areas of concern...so yeah I noticed the similarity and I'm wondering (sort of) what they're doing for the intelligence piece of the puzzle, and what their areas of concern are...

Arlin

-- Anonymous, June 17, 1999

Tom - thanks for the update - interesting about the consolidation of command and control assets in the Navy...I wonder if they see this as their revenge for what the Air Force did in the 50's and 60's once the concept of strategic deterrance came to be accepted...

Thanks again,

Arlin

-- Anonymous, June 17, 1999

Gol dang...

Now Im seeing c3is and c4is all over the place.

Why?

Diane

OT: Contractors' Software 'Cr*p,' Says Top DOD IT Official (Federal Computer Week)

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000yOA

-- Anonymous, June 18, 1999