Our apologies to Paul. We knew this would draw the maximum amount of attention.

We have a background in C2 (Command and Control). This means we are BIG PICTURE people. We're paid to play the "What If" Game. We're paid to extrapolate information and trend data. We're paid to provide an OVERALL assessment of operations, support, logistics, and socioeconomic and psychological factors for situations. We're paid to plan strategies for the long view. In short it means we have the information, tools, intelligence systems, talent, and know-how at this organization's disposal to reasonably forecast and predict outcomes.

We have an 89.3% rate of our forecasts coming true and this is for events without a definitive date. This organization is studying Y2K. Yes, we are DOD. No, we don't like this scenario. We believe it is not only possible, it is probable. Our assessment as follows:

1. Because we the government, and in particular him the CINC, has done nothing public other than preach "the winter storm" the country cannot and will not prepare in a timely fashion. We will go 10. The CINC is in deep denial, and still believes with the VCINC that Gates will pull a rabbit out of his hat.

2. Initial power outages will be 1-2 weeks in the South and Midwest. The Northeast will experience 3-4 week outages, the West and Southwest 2-3 weeks. We're not talking brownouts.

3. Dee Cee will be an armed camp starting 15 Dec 99. There are 120 major cities within the U.S. There are approximately 2.25 million troops; this includes the NG and Reserves. The cities will be chaotic at best and the troops will not be sent in, they will be used to cordon off areas of unrest. Isolate the fire.

4. The following industries will be nationalized: Power, Fuel, Transportation, Agriculture (not individual farms), Chemical, Mining, Pharmaceuticals, Hospitals, and Communications. There will be a bank holiday before the rollover -date determined by the people.

5. Governors will institute Martial Law for heavily populated areas. The CINC will usurp the Governors and declare national Martial Law to restrict interstate travel and to mobilize the work force. The CINC's action will be too much for many in both the military and private sector. The "Militia" groups will mobilize.

6. The Congress will activate the inactive Militia "all able bodied males between the ages of 17 and 45" will report to designated staging and training areas, the hope is to quell dissent and re-establish a Constitutional methodology to the event. The "Militia" actually a pseudo-militia, they have no Constitutional standing, they don't fall under the discipline prescribed by Congress (Art I, Sec 8, Clauses 15 & 16) will balk. Open insurrection ensues

7. Famine and disease will breakout in the parts of the cities not under Martial Law. Fighting is widespread for strategic transportation hubs, fuel depots, armories, and granaries. More service members desert or join the militia. Class warfare ensues.

8. Several missile launch complexes are taken. Negotiation with Dee Cee begins. NORAD falls via an insider. Dee Cee capitulates.

There is no definitive timeline other than the panic will ensue Sept-Oct timeframe.

To Flint, Anita, Poole, Y2Kpro, and the like who say "hogwash, no-way, can't happen, you're nuts, etc." YOU do not have the information that we have. YOU have proven your inability to analyze. In short YOU lack what we call SA (Situational Awareness). YOU are a danger because you go beyond "questioning your beliefs." You do not acknowledge the negative information presented and act accordingly.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999

Answers

Can you tell me who will win the Stars-Sabres game tonight?

-- Vic (Rdrunner@internetwork.net), June 10, 1999.

Nice try until No. 8. Let's see, how would that work?

"You heard us, Mr. President! Give us the launch codes or we'll, ummmm..."

-- Thinman (thinman38@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999.

Nice try.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), June 10, 1999.

Just another reason why this forum is so entertaining.

-- nothere nothere (nothere@nothere.com), June 10, 1999.

Wow...what can I say. Dejavu. Can't wait to see the *thrashing about* that THIS one's gonna create!!! You *know* the perceptions shared MUST have legitimate source....just read the last paragraph, BWAAAAA.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 10, 1999.

Thinman,

Launch codes are used to tell the Launch Complex personnel to turn the keys. Two personnel each turn a key within a tenth of a second. The KEYS close the circuit, the KEYS launch the missiles.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999.

Yeah it's amazing how these DOD guys find enough time off from work to frequent this forum long enough to know who Poole and Y2KPro are. I guess once they finished their scenarios there was nothing to do but sit around posting on the Y2000 BB, watch reruns of the Brady Bunch on Nick At Nite and drink caffe lattes until they puked.

Interesting stuff though, what's this stuf about Article 1, Section 8 Clauses 15, 16? Where can one find that in Congress?

-- (workathome@atl.ga), June 10, 1999.

Hmm, you state some very bold premises but I (as a scientist and engineer) would need to see some data to convince me of your position. At least give us a few details or additonal arguments to back up your 8 points...Moreover, (regarding your claim to be a DoD employee) I could claim to be Bill Clinton or the world`s expert on Digital Control Theory or Neural Networks writing under a pseudo email and there would be no way to refute or prove my claim. If you have so much experience with Command and Control Systems than perhaps you would not mind taking this discussion off-line -- I received my PhD E.E. from Ohio State University with an emphasis on Control Systems focusing on expert (read neural nets) systems and the research was funded by ARPA (used to be DARPA). Still have a lot of contacts in the DoD (former Contract Monitors working with our Research Group) and could verify some of your claims.

-- wholst (w_holst@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999.

c4i -- if you're authentic, show some bona fides (for instance, something DOD that regulars here who know mil stuff can verify). Between just declaring it and telling us your real name lies a lot of meaningful ground.

You're saying "10" and therefore that Y2K isn't a game. Posting isn't either. Otherwise, while interesting, it goes in the scenario pile with the rest, which would be a big shame if you are legit.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), June 10, 1999.

I think it's only fair that you prove who you say you are somehow, now that you've been openly invited to do so several times. If you are for real, you'll be willing to sacrifice a little more in light of what you've already given us. If your a phony, well I guess we won't be hearing much more from you and this thread, as Bigdog said, will go onto "theoretical pile".

-- (456@1999.234), June 10, 1999.

Having observed here for a time, I am amazed at the predictability of the acceptance of negative hearsay; Posts made by unknown individuals are accepted if the news is negative, but others seem to need an independant verification to "ok" the poster, if their news is positive. Bigdog, would some "insider" language #really# be enough to satisfy you as to the authenticity of the initial post?

-- Psych Major (babel@on X .com), June 10, 1999.

*sigh*

the originator of this thread is writing cluelessly on several counts (for instance no person with significant C2 experience would make the martial law claims he does, as the numbers don't add up), but his handle gives away the fact that he is doing so intentionally.

C4I = command, control, communications, COUNTERMEASURES, and intelligence...

in other words the post was written by someone with knowledge of one military acronym and the desire to troll for responses.

Arlin Adams

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), June 10, 1999.

I'm also curious why this would go on the "theory" pile and not the "rhetoric" pile?

-- Psych Major (babel@on X .com), June 10, 1999.

Hey now come on Arlin, C4 did know about the nuke keys... he/she MUST be for real.

-- (456@1999.123), June 10, 1999.

Pysch...

Becasue rhetoric are questions that require no answer, theories are something that might very well be true. See the difference? Or do you also have a crytsal ball that allows you to see the future? If you do you could be of great service to us clearing this matter up right now. Yeah the thread is 99.99% fake, but the content is only slightly debatable because it supposedly takes place then not now. Maybe after the 1/1/00 deadline we can put in the rhetorical pile.

-- (456@1999.123), June 10, 1999.

What happened to international failures, the Russians nuking us (whoopsie, there's that accidental launch(es) we warned you about), bio/chemo/nuclear/other terrorism, hazmat spills, sewer backups, massive relocation refugee exodus, etc? Outline above too narrow ...

And timeline of panic cannot be predicted, if it even happens, which is doubtful, given the vigorous happy-face spin 'n wash cycle ...

xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 10, 1999.

C4I -Comand, Control, Communications, Computers and Intelligence. Countermeasures is down the hall.

What would you like? An ASCAS Roster with our names on it: DCID 1/14 SSBI/SBI. Or would you prefer Yankee White.

The "Little Pentagon" is currently having thousands of LAN drops put inside.

We understand the Navy is moving several thousand employees to the Yard, should have 12K there by 2002.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999.

Arlin: C4I = Command, Control, Communications and Computers Intelligence

-- a (a@a.a), June 10, 1999.

Well, . . .this is one of the juiciest threads I've seen in months. I'll be checking in often!

In the meantime, why the following estimates for the following areas?

"2. Initial power outages will be 1-2 weeks in the South and Midwest. The Northeast will experience 3-4 week outages, the West and Southwest 2-3 weeks. We're not talking brownouts."

And. . .why sir, maam, whatever--if you're legit--are you taking the risk of posting here?

Hmmm. . .

:)

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), June 10, 1999.

Arlin?

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), June 10, 1999.

c4i: Keep going. You're cutting the mustard so far.

-- a (a@a.a), June 10, 1999.

This is almost like reading a Clancy novel. You know its fictional, but the author sure has a lot of insights that make you want to believe it's real...

Don't tell me how it ends. I'm not sure I want to know. Unless Jack Ryan saves the day...

-- regular (zzz@z.z), June 10, 1999.

Thats the big question.

If youre a top level spook in C4 with access to all the hot info and the inside story and the keys to the executive washrooms, shouldnt you be active on the debunker forums telling us to go back to sleep and not worry ?

Thats the "Disinformation" "Spin" "Infomanagement" thing to do isnt it ?

I think youre hoisted by your own petard.

By the way, making up spook talk is easy . . watch . .

Well, if you want proof that I'm sat in a launch bunker with my hand on a nuclear launch key right now, Ill prove it . .

Im in COM-SEC-221 Sector IV at West Harlow (which youll only have heard of if you have X-15 security clearance), and were running some extended QANTIX tests right now, making sure the sequencing is correct on the SW-ARM 30's. And if you want further proof, Im up the street from USDAPC headquarters, and I can see the Q7's vehicle from where Im sitting, on the tarmac near the hotdog stand. Just ask anyone who knows anything about the security apparatus . . blah blah ad infinitum.

Ive read a few novels too.

Try again.

-- Gosh Im so Impressed (with@your.bullshit.not), June 10, 1999.

As a former Marine. These guys have the ring of truth. I know lots of current and former military types and intel community types and I believe we will see some similar scenarios as these guys. I do not expect anyone to believe me, in fact I know I am tilting at windmills. Arlin, C4I is command, control, communications and computers, and intelligence. Countermeasures is completely different. The military is FULL of professionals who are distressed to see our country forced to live with no real leadership. They cry at the the thought of our future post y2k. Semper Fidelis, Richard USMC

-- Richard, USMC (Rkb65@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999.

(workathome@atl.ga),

>what's this stuf about Article 1, Section 8 Clauses 15, 16? Where can one find that in Congress?

U.S. Constitution.

Article 1, Section 8:

"The Congress shall have Power ..."

Clauses 15,16:

"... To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; ..."

-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999.

We're waiting, c4i. Have you left us?

:)

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), June 10, 1999.

Thanks

-- (workathome@atl.ga), June 10, 1999.

Troll. My best guess is a militia type looking for recruits.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), June 10, 1999.

OK, c4i, I stand corrected on the launch codes. But FM's question stands. Surely your superiors would have the means to trace your post and perform a classified operation on you. Unless you're posting with their tacit approval...

-- Thinman (thinman38@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999.

Not a troll. Not in the regular sense anyway.

-- h (h@h.h), June 10, 1999.

Sometimes you can't cee the status of things until they are sorted out. Perhaps the third oppropriate thing is to report that. Then I'll make a beeline home, that would be the pinnacle.

With regard to the power question, this is the min time. If the power can be turned-back on. You will need to have users. 2nd law of thermo "energy neither created or destroyed" If the power is running and there aren't any users, it has to go somewhere and be expended. The lines will burn. Most manufacturing is not going to know if and when the power is on. They aren't going to be able to maintain a crew there for several weeks.

-- c41 (c41xxx@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999.

I think I'm going to go with the Marine on this one. However absurd in light of recent Pollyanna bashing, this kind of information could very well be true. It might not. But if I ever get an unscheduled visit from the Armed Forces sometime before or after new years I guess I'll consider myself warned, and act appropriatley.

-- (workathome@atl.ga), June 10, 1999.

Strongly disagree with you there on "power" - the plants create the potential (high voltage) and place that potential energy "at the fence" in their tranformer yard.

Current flows on demand from the transformer yard based on the difference in voltage between the grid and the plant - which is closely regulated by the generator curve (voltage = constant, speed= drop with higher use) so that load sharing is matched.

Sorry - they don't "burn up" as demand lowers - only speed up slightly, and use less energy from the prime mover by speeding up. Get hold of a couple of Navy nukes from those available, have him sketch the load demand curves for you.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), June 10, 1999.

This last post by capitol cee four one (C41) looks like an imposter or polly. It does not appear to be written by the original poster. ---- small cee four eye (c4i}

-- Open too any info that might help (Watching@CloselyToo.com), June 10, 1999.

"2. Initial power outages will be 1-2 weeks in the South and Midwest. The Northeast will experience 3-4 week outages, the West and Southwest 2-3 weeks. We're not talking brownouts."

a) Heating requirements in the areas mentioned follow seasonal climate differences.

b) The Northeast is much more dependent on nuclear plants than the other areas for power generating capacity.

SPECULATION FOLLOWS:

This DoD [rogue?hero?imposter?troll?] has read and assimilated Wilson Tucker's novel, Year of the Quiet Sun. (Recommended reading in any case.)

No recommendations are given for getting any part of the civilian population through the bad patch. I'd have thought this would be an essential part of an "OVERALL assessment".

This reflects classic doctrine, though. "Prepare for your enemy's capabilities, not for his intentions", as applied (by analogy) to the Y2K situation.

Jury's still out....

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), June 10, 1999.

Why has it become so difficult for us to believe that there are patriotic individuals (in the *truest* sense of the word) willing to take great risks for the good of our country? I believe there are still people out there who are willing to put themselves at great risk, because it is the right, moral thing to do.

How many of us would be as willing and brave to do the same?

-- Believe it (could@be.true), June 10, 1999.

O.K. gang, this has been tons of fun, but I've got to head off and do something called "work." I'll check in later to see what happens to this very interesting thread. . .

C4i, if that was really you in the third post (the mispelled words make me suspicious), then I'm confused:

You wrote:

"Sometimes you can't cee the status of things until they are sorted out. Perhaps the third oppropriate thing is to report that. Then I'll make a beeline home, that would be the pinnacle."

Whoa! That's way too cryptic for me.

You then wrote:

"With regard to the power question, this is the min time. If the power can be turned-back on. You will need to have users. 2nd law of thermo "energy neither created or destroyed" If the power is running and there aren't any users, it has to go somewhere and be expended. The lines will burn. Most manufacturing is not going to know if and when the power is on. They aren't going to be able to maintain a crew there for several weeks."

Also a bit cryptic, but an assistant in one our state's senators' offices told me a few months ago that they were concerned about our manufacturing plants going off line suddenly and the effect that would have on distribution lines, so that part of your message sounds legit. I don't understand, however, why the manufacturers wouldn't know if and when the power is on. If someone's manning a plant, and the lights come on, is that not a pretty good indication?

Finally, c4i, if you're legit but you have a message you believe the public needs to hear, I would suggest that you either contact Scott Johnson at iDefense (email scojo@yahoo.com) or David Bresnahan at Worldnet Daily (email comments@talkusa.com). Bresnahan is no fan of the CINC, and has written many articles on Y2k while protecting the identities of his interviewees. I'm sure he'd love to talk to you.

If you feel you need an intermediary, I'm sure many on this forum would be pleased to oblige. Franklin Frith at y2kcoming.com would probably jump at the chance. Whether his Y2k predictions are right or wrong, he seems to be a good man.

:)

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), June 10, 1999.

Arlin,

Martial Law is completely probable, even with the current numbers. We are talking herd mentality. We are talking a cold, lightless, hungry, frightened society that wants things to be the way they used to be. Big Momma government will be there in spirit and the populace will respond accordingly.

However, some will not. Some will be exceedingly angry, some like those on this forum who know that the government knows and isn't doing squat to help mitigate the outcome. They will create action.

Do we advocate violence? No. Do we see it as a likely outcome? Yes. Are we members of the militia? No, that would violate our oaths. Do we see circumstances where we will be asked to perform an unconsciounable order? Yes.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999.

Sorry.

'Posted before I had a chance to read Mr. Cook's comments. I'll defer.

Also, last post should have read "and you have a message," rather than "but you have a message."

:)

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), June 10, 1999.

Whether the original post by c4i is authentic, it's a certainty that someone just like him is making a y2k analysis. We're not that stupid in the DOD to simply cross our fingers for the next 7 months. I don't think the scenario is that unbelievable, except the missile installation bit. Exactly who would Dee Cee be surrendering to?

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), June 10, 1999.

*sigh* my age is showing vis a vis the acronym...

meanwhile "C4I" still needs to establish how all of the military folks can be in two (and sometimes three) places at once. If, and only if the guard and reserves are called up in their entirity, AND if all active duty personnel are available (including recall of all those on foriegn deployments, and shutting down all training facillities) *then* there will be close to the total number of available military personnel he cites. Of course you're still looking at an average tooth to tail ratio of what? roughly 1 to 5? (less for the Marines, much more for the Air Force) that means that they could actually deploy something like 400,000 military 'enforcers'max. let's see that's what? a little less than 3500 per each of the 120 cities, right? which quite frankly ain't much.

of course then there's talk about declaring martial law outside of those 120 cities, but wait! we just used up all available troops on the first 120...including the guard and reserves which means that in many cases we've also further depeleted the emergency services personnel from rural areas and smaller communities...hmm...

oh, and then of course we still need to look at the fact that the above deployment would entail reneging on all international military commitments - unlikely, and EXTREMELY destabilizing (example: what happens when U.S. units start pulling out of Korea?.

sorry, but the scenario still isn't valid, regardless of the acronym

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), June 10, 1999.

Cory Hamasaki...?

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 10, 1999.

Ah, the big grin thing may have been it....., we'll see...

-- Lisa (lisa@work.now), June 10, 1999.

Thaaaaaaannnnnk Yoooooouuuuuu !!!!!!

(Damn HTML)

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 10, 1999.

C4I appears to be only marginally literate, or doesn't bother to proofread. He exhibits incorrect spelling, poor grammar, etc.

-- curtis schalek (schale1@ibm.net), June 10, 1999.

this thread is getting really interesting after all.

Paul D. - no the guy is not militia recruiting as far as I can tell - have already checked that much out, at least on a priliminary level.

C4I - LOL as one of the vets on this board, and one who is also openly associated with the militia movement your theory concerning "activation" of the unorganized (note correct legal term - not inactive) militia under Article I section 8 is interesting but unlikely, since there are neither the legal means to do so in an orderly manner, nor the political will to do so in any case - remember right now billy jeff has got congress buffaloed into thinking that high capacity magazines cause mass murders...no chance they'd actually take a legal stance saying that they trust armed citizens to defend themselves.

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), June 10, 1999.

Well this is all very interesting and all that. Thanks for the reply explaining P=IE and E=IR Mr. Cook so I wouln't have to, you answered in a more polite manner than I would have (you see that "we" business reminds me of what Mark Twain had to say on that topic).

Anyway isn't it interesting that c4i's post which may or may not be ligit is drawing so much discussion, whereas something like http://www.nwc.navy.mil/dsd/y2ksited/y2kproj.htm which has been mentioned previously on this forum has gotten a big yaaaaaawn? I mean that .mil/, that's just a bit of a indicator/hint, right? Sit down with that summary and a copy of the bill of rights and a big old red marker and start crossing stuff out, and I don't mean on the summary.

Hasn't anybody ever heard of the phrase, "ignore what is said, watch what they do"? Or maybe the one "in politics nothing happens by accident"? I just really do not understand people that think Y2K is going to be just a BITR what with all the people in corporations and government doing extraordinary activities. Yeah I know, "see how much they are doing - that means it's going to be fixed in time". There is a comforting logic to that and it is true that every little bit of remidiation reduces the severity of Y2K effects. However, what about all the activity that is preps for damage control, and for significant damage at that! Well I guess that can be *poofed* away via, "they're just preparing for the worse". Oh? Why do they bother if we're only supposed to prepare for three days? The pieces just don't fit.

P.S. Nobody ever gave a good reply to http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000sX8

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), June 10, 1999.

Arlin,

You missed the Militia clause, look it up at Cornell U Law Lib. All able bodied male citizens and those who intend to become citizens between the ages of 17 and 45. And of course the Inactive Ready Reserve.

It does not take that many troops to cordon off an area. And what will the government do when the Army of free Virginia crosses the Potomac takes over Piney Point?

Becasue the event will be widespread, Martial Law is the most efficient means of controlling the populace. People are not going to like that, there will be a crack down. The US government cracking down on its citizens for opposing Martial Law, that will fuel the fire.

In addition, all it takes is one launch complex, one.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999.

Good point Ken

And as far as the notion of only a little over 3500 troops per city goes during martial law, that must not take into account the Metro cops and State troopers on hand to help the service guys. I'm not saying it's likely, just plausible.

-- (workathome@atl.ga), June 10, 1999.

Thanks c4i,

"Curiouser and curiouser." (-1 sp?)

Humm. Hadn't made it over to the Naval War College stuff yet. It's time.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 10, 1999.

Awwwwww.... just peeked in here while working - how the heck am I supposed to get any work done NOW??? Keep goin' please...

-- Kristi (securx@succeed.net), June 10, 1999.

"C4i" -- well, if we have to accomodate YET ANOTHER stupid troll, at least we got us a very rare Doomer Troll as opposed to the usual Pollyanna Troll.

Hey, that gives me a great idea.... C4i, there is this terrible pollyanna troll named "Mr. Decker". Could you and your friends find his bridge and eliminate it?

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), June 10, 1999.

LOL! I'm well aware of the militia clause and the inactive military reserves are are part of the *organized* militia (along with the guard)...go back and reread it, you'll find that the unorganized militia are what you're attempting to talk about, and they exist as a legally defined seperate entity. For which there is no means of orderly activation, etc, as I've previously stated.

methinks you've been reading a bit too much speculative fiction in your spare time, my young friend...but you need to be aware of something else, and that is that the server you are coming in from (yes we know where you are) keeps permanant records of all transmissions which are regularly reviewed by your security personnel...while I personally can't comment on how you spend your time on Friday afternoons, your supervisors may actually be thinking that your working...you might want to keep that in mind lest security check back through your chain of command and you end up someplace significantly less cushy than at a terminal interacting with known subversives and other sorts of folks whose friendship might not neccessarily be good for your security clearance...

just my 2 cents kid, but you might want to think about it.

Arlin Adams

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), June 10, 1999.

A sitiuation like what c4I is not out of the question. If things reverse in kosovo and we have an unexpected military suprise in Korea and Iraq the congress would be forced to call up the reserves and start drafting people immediately. If y2k is going to be a 10 expect it. Were in the end game right now. Either remediation succeeded or failed and military commanders will act accordingly while they have the military muscle to ensure we can come out on top. If it failed in a big way the confrontations will be a smoke screen to deploy the (troops)forces nessary to ensure Continuty of Government the prime national directive. There actions will speak louder than words. Stay watchfull. If remediation was successful then we will see a standing down of military movements. Y2k is an all or nothing Game. Treaties will become toilet paper if they are not able to be backed up with a credable force deterent. I pray they choose Peace no matter what happens. Be ready just in case they dont.

-- y2k aware mike (y2k aware mike @ conservation . com), June 10, 1999.

I want to know which CINC will take over. This sounds too much like Nik.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), June 10, 1999.

Darn. I thought we might be getting the current thinking of the DOD, not the personal, but flawed, speculation of one insider.

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), June 10, 1999.

Arlin: "(yes we know where you are)"

Really? And who is this we? Does that mean you are sysop#1, Arlin?

-- anyone (anyone@peanut.gallery), June 10, 1999.

Arlin

Just when things were warming up you had to chase him-her away.

-- Mike Lang (webflier@erols.com), June 10, 1999.

Arlin,why did you do that?

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), June 10, 1999.

er, Mike - the kid was most likely either an intern or a summer hire who arrived at his current location on a Friday afternoon, without all of the prerequisite paperwork...so they stuck him in a room with a terminal and told him to stay out of the way until close of business...this internet stuff can be exciting, you know, and he probably hadn't been briefed on the standard security practices where he is located, so he thought he was still back on the block...no such luck...but with what he's done up to this point at the most he'll probably get yelled at and that will be the end of it.

peanut gallery: no it doesn't mean I'm sysop #1...sheesh!

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), June 10, 1999.

Nope. If Arlin were sysop #1, this forum would be swept clean of trolls in a trice. No fooling.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), June 10, 1999.

Arlin----What is this Friday afternon stuff?

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), June 10, 1999.

A few observations from someone who knows absolutely nothing about this stuff. Take it for what it's worth : )

The following paragraph,

"Sometimes you can't cee the status of things until they are sorted out. Perhaps the third oppropriate thing is to report that. Then I'll make a beeline home, that would be the pinnacle."

Is really, really cryptic. Is it code? I'm just speculating and having some fun so feel free to help : )

The misspelled words seem almost obvious.

"cee"

"opps"

"bee"

"pinnacle"

I dunno... what does it mean?

Regarding martial law...

The majority of people live on the right side of the law everyday even though the ratio of peace officers to average citizen is very low. It's a system of voluntary compliance. If the ratio of law breakers climbs to beyond the lever where control is possible then it's obvious that law and order go on holiday.

My gut tells me that the majority of people will still offer voluntary compliance if TSHTF. It's not within the average American citizen's comfort zone to be outside the law. That is, unless that comfort zone is pushed too far and passes the breaking point where normal fear and logic are set aside in order to either maintain a pulse, maintain the safety of loved ones, provide for loved ones.

As long as there is a show of force and a perception that law will be maintained *or else* most people will be able to stay within their comfort zone and offer no danger to those who must maintain law and order. They will also offer no resistance to the suspension of liberty and certain rights, etc. as long as their comfort zone is still intact. The more strain on the comfort zone the higher the possibility that the normal, average citizen will react for self perservation.

My belief is that you don't need to have troops stationed on every corner of every city block or at every intersection or every interstate... just enough to offer the perception that order will be maintained. Also, I take into account that the normal contigient of peace officers will be complimented by *other* armed alphabet agency personnel who will also be available for duty.

The danger, as far as I see it, is that *if* serious problems occur that require flight from the cities, as in refugees, there will be no real way to contain this. There will be massive camps in rural areas much like we're seeing in Macedonia, Albania, etc. The reason that the cities might be left to "burn" is because most people who could get out have done so and the cities are nothing more than an "Escape from NY, LA..." movie.

Also, *if* people are killed by the government under questionable circumstances where the suspension of constitutional rights is imposed I think that would be very, very bad for the government. My guess is it would suffer massive flight from government service into the citizen ranks.

Regarding the nukes as hostages...

Maybe the nukes are taken as a bargaining chip. They don't have to be used...only taken and held without the ability to be used by the powers that be. If areas are taken that lessen the capability of the government that could be all that is necessary in order to force a bargain.

I'm just thinking out loud and really intrigued by c4i.

You don't need to *believe* in everything you speculate about and everything you speculate about doesn't *have* to come true. These aren't predictions, this sounds more like "think tank" stuff to me.

Mike =========================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), June 10, 1999.

Of course I meant Friday afternoon

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), June 10, 1999.

Perhaps Arlin is posting from across the International Date Line and it's Friday already.

If so, maybe he'll give us some early reports on rollover day. :-)

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), June 10, 1999.

Someone please advise for Canadadian what "Yankee White" is. What is an Ascas Roster? What is significance of DCID 1?14 SSBI/SBI? I believe c41 may in fact be sending cryptic nessage. Can someone interpret or assist.

Thanks, Lurker in Canada

-- Lurker (neilw@infoserve.net), June 10, 1999.

Whoops, sorry, that's Canadian.

Lurker

-- Lurker (neilw@infoserve.net), June 10, 1999.

That must be technical jargon GoshImSoImSoImpressed was bashing. CAN anyone here validate if any of it's "for real".

-- (workathome@atl.ga), June 10, 1999.

"We have a background in C2 (Command and Control). This means we are BIG PICTURE people. We're paid to play the "What If" Game. We're paid to extrapolate information and trend data. We're paid to provide an OVERALL assessment of operations, support, logistics, and socioeconomic and psychological factors for situations. We're paid to plan strategies for the long view. In short it means we have the information, tools, intelligence systems, talent, and know-how at this organization's disposal to reasonably forecast and predict outcomes."

Note the "we". Interesting. This really sounds like "think tank" stuff to me. Places like CSIS, etc. which employ people with high levels of understanding, contacts, etc.

Also, note the reference "we have a background in C2". Perhaps this is a think tank and not people currently on active duty? ...

Arlin, are you making reference to a server you are close to within an organization or the server which hosts this forum?

Mike =========================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), June 10, 1999.

Arlin

I agree. That was said tongue-in-cheek.

-- Mike Lang (webflier@erols.com), June 10, 1999.

BTW that hotmail addres c4i gave is "for real". I e-mailed it but got no response. FWIW

-- (meagain@atl.ga), June 10, 1999.

Rand is a "think tank" I know people in Rand and some of them do need security clearance

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), June 10, 1999.

Arlin - I have seen milita types use similar language and supposedly 'secret' documents before in trying to get people to join up, or at least start them thinking in that direction. This guy is pretty similar.

To anyone who has C4i's ip address - if you can ping or traceroute his address, it is NOT on a US military site.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), June 10, 1999.

Paul, why do you insist that this person(s) is currently active military? Mike =====================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mt4design@aol.com), June 10, 1999.

Paul Davis said:

"To anyone who has C4i's ip address - if you can ping or traceroute his address, it is NOT on a US military site."

Wrong again Paul.

-- a (a@a.a), June 10, 1999.

O.K., Arlin, 'fess up.

I don't know anything about pinging or tracerouting, but if you know who this guy/gal/it is, did the email address have a .gov or an .org at the end?

As for it being a kid. . .well the language of the original post was fairly articulate. What do you make of that?

:)

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), June 10, 1999.

Whoops. 'Meant to say server.

:)

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), June 10, 1999.

A Hotmail address!! WOW!! This must be for real. I mean not just anybody can get a hotmail address.......

Whoops....sorry.....i guess anyone can get a hotmail address. Maybe it's a special super-secret C4i Hotmail address.....yes, that's it!

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), June 10, 1999.

Craig, the exact reason why hotmail addresses are perfect because they are totally anonymous. Ask any AOL password capture program authors.

-- (thinkingathome@atl.ga), June 10, 1999.

c4i:

AUTHENTICATE the following:

1). Name the last desert assignment held by General Wesley Clark?

2). Where is it located?

3). What position did he hold there?

4). Where did he go to college?

5). Was he the goat of his class?

-- (snowleopard6@webtv.net), June 10, 1999.

My gut feeling is that if this contact is real it is indicative of our military's tendancy to imagine worst case scenarios (I can't help but think of Rod Steiger in Mars Attacks!! - wow did I love that movie) and frankly I don't see how they can do differently. Just like the Naval War College project. It is necessary.

A friend's son is a Navy Seal & late last year warned his dad (an open-minded but mainstream public official) that what he was hearing from his sources here and abroad made him feel that family should be preparing for a really rough time for several years after y2k. They are creating a "compound" type residence with all the preps, arms, etc. you can imagine (well maybe not as much as some of you <:). This is a fairly "ordinary" family who has decided to take this seriously. I don't know if it will turn out to have been unneccessary. Anyhow.....

-- Kristi (securx@succeed.net), June 10, 1999.

I can get a hotmail address. Heck, the CINC (just got what that meant, lol) can get a hotmail address. What a great way to keep a real identity secret? I would think that *if* this group is doing work for largescale, international corporations then leaking this info could hinder or destroy contracts. Also, along those lines, it would be crucial for largescale, international corps to get a real, nothing held back, view of the possible future. You can't plan a contingency without it. Note that in the first paragraph the words "we are paid" are mentioned over and over again. This shows that there is a respect for the opinion given. Also, for me, it means that this group, though involved with the DOD, is civilian. A whole lot of these entities exist working in tandem with the DOD, right? Note the following except, "We have an 89.3% rate of our forecasts coming true and this is for events without a definitive date. This organization is studying Y2K. Yes, we are DOD. No, we don't like this scenario. We believe it is not only possible, it is probable." Mike ===================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mt4design@aol.com), June 10, 1999.

a --- you be right about being right and Paul is indeed wrong. Good catch, you're not as dumb as the pollys think you are, are ya? ;-)

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), June 10, 1999.

OTOH, this is getting silly, folks. But, as Arlin pointed out, it is Friday afternoon so what the hey ....

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), June 10, 1999.

opps... just thinking... maybe the CINC would be more interested in getting a hotmale.com address... rofl...

Mike ===================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), June 10, 1999.

Big Dog:

It's still Thursday afternoon here in Texas. Where do YOU live?

The one thing that would bother ME regarding the original poster of this thread is that he may have a security clearance. The poster went on to say that joining a militia would break an oath. Um...and posting DOD information to a public forum isn't breaking an oath taken when one got a security clearance? For this reason, I don't trust the poster's words. I had the same opinion of those folks who presumably contacted WorldNetDaily a while back. We're supposed to entrust our lives to folks who can't keep their mouths shut? I've got kids that could keep secrets better and haven't taken any oaths at all.

Anita

-- Anita Spooner (spoonera@msn.com), June 10, 1999.

Arlin- Couldn't you have just let this guy finish saying what he wanted to say before chasing him off? Jeesh....

-- Gia (Laureltree7@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999.

This may or may not be a accurate post. It is however, right on the money with my thoughts.

-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), June 10, 1999.

UM PEOPLE, I did a little search on the VCINC and came to a VERY disturbing website. THE DOD has a strict warning message there... go to it if your not in criminal violation, they WILL be monitoring...

http://www.aeaim.hqusareur.army.mil/LIBRARY/HOME.HTM

sorry I don't have a hotlink, but

WORTH A LOOK !!!

-- (workathome@atl.ga), June 10, 1999.

Anita -- Gee, this ISN'T Friday .... Hmmmm.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), June 10, 1999.

Lets form a group and just plain hang Arlin from the nearest tree. We know he is guilty. The best post for the month of June and Arlin scares him/her off. We're all pissed, lets just hang him.

-- madashell (madashell@letshang.him), June 10, 1999.

I was able to confirm c41i's 89.3% successful prediction rate, and it is impressive: He worked closely on some of the following forecasts:

Summer 1985 - Pan blackened redfish will be a hit in Manhattan restaurants.

Spring 1988 - Hemines on the rise again.

June 1994 - Predicted the OJ verdict -

May , 1998 - Responsible for predicting approach of summer, with a one month margin of error.

Various dates - Accurately predicted the gender of pregnant close friends and/or family members. Well actually guessed boy or a girl, almost always got it.

June 10, 1999 - Accurately predicted that after posting this fairy tale the doomers would re-double their soap making and the pollys would order another round of beers.

And isn't bank holiday a Brit term for a 3-day weekend?

And then he drove off in his Edsel to a reunion of children conceived by those who fled the cities and hid out after listening to Orson Welles do War of the Worlds on Radio.

There is the real world and there is the Internet. Who is stronger, Mighty Mouse or Joe Louis? Hello...cartoons are not real.

So anyway, why is Milne a Polly, I could have sworn he has doomer tendecies.

-- Polyester (Pollyester@dacron.net), June 10, 1999.

Actually,

The fact that he hasn't posted since Arlin warned him, speaks volumes, IMHO.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 10, 1999.

It's not a bad theory, only thing no one is taking into account is that there are laws already on the books that say 50% of the US will be returned to natural status. No people. Europe is solidifying. NWO is getting stronger. If the 120 major cities are just destroyed outright. Power is shifted, one world gov't is another step closer to reality. The last major icon of individual freedom is removed, or at least made impotant. NATO becomes the defacto icon of liberty. What resistance is left in the US is quietly eliminated. We become park food, and in a generation, we are just a perverted memory in the history books of the NWO.

-- Thinker (itsnot@thathard.tosee), June 10, 1999.

Polyester --- ROFLMAO. This really is a great thread. I know I hang with you kooks for a good reason ...

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), June 10, 1999.

You mean the United Nations becomes the defacto icon.

-- (acerothstein@LV.NV), June 10, 1999.

For all of you accept the original post as passing you burden of proof for believability, here is a question for you. You are on trial for murder and the jury will use the same criteria to decide whether or not evidence presented against you is truthful or not. How comfortable do you feel?

-- Do You See (howstupid@youlook.com), June 10, 1999.

workathome: that's standard DoD stuff. All sites are supposed to have it, though not many do.

As for c4i, he may or may not be legit. It doesn't matter a great deal to me because it would not sway my beliefs one way or the other at this point. But it is certainly conceivable that he is part of a think tank, like the one at Navy War College, that is strategizing about y2k. He may even be a shill trying to gather information on how a "mini-panic" can spread (on this forum). He has not stated enough to make this clear, one way or the other, although I am skeptical at this point.

However, for those that feel his projections may be a little pessimistic, have a look at this thread:

Worse than Y2K - EMP

Basically, ONE TERRORIST with ONE NUKE could detonate it above the US and the resulting EMP would fry enough critic electronic components to initiate a INFOMAGIC devolutionary spiral, which for those new to the topic, is about a 15 on a the normal "scale of 10."

-- a (a@a.a), June 10, 1999.

Diane--- Don't you think that if he was a Troll he would keep posting just to keep us all going. And then on the other hand..........

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), June 10, 1999.

workathome:

I went there (as I have nothing to hide.) I even clicked on the open book. After waiting forever, I noticed that the book had to do with military operations in Europe. I closed out of the site after noticing that, and before the book opened.

What, exactly was your point?

Anita

-- Anita Spooner (spoonera@msn.com), June 10, 1999.

There were a few links on that page that explained the makeup of the boards, commissions and committees. Some names and so forth. Just sort of coincided with what the poster was saying about VCINC leaving it all up to the faith of Bill Gates. Nothing specific or cloak and dagger. But it was something that stood out to me. I figure this initial post was either a steaming pile of (censored) or something with foundation. Maybe I was jumping to conclusions.

-- (workathome@atl.ga), June 10, 1999.

Hot link

USAREUR/ 7A ODCSIM: Y2K Web Site (frames)

-- Brian (imager@home.com), June 10, 1999.

This is one document that rarely gets mentioned. It is from the Mitre org. and they are a tech side of DOD in essence if not reality. Worth a look if you have a good comp. Heavy graphics, heavy information, heavy implications.

http://www.mitre.org/research/y2k/briefings/Defused_RAM.pdf

-- Brian (imager@home.com), June 10, 1999.

ACEROTHSTEIN, no not the UN, NATO the UN is just a focal point. NATO and the new United Europe will be the driving force. This is the seat of the NWO.

-- Thinker (we@understand.it), June 10, 1999.

SSBI/SBI, if true, indicates a high level Security Background Investigation.

-- Jon Williamson (pssomerville@sprintmail.com), June 10, 1999.

{snip} We have a background in C2 (Command and Control). This means we are BIG PICTURE people. We're paid to play the "What If" Game. We're paid to extrapolate information and trend data. We're paid to provide an OVERALL assessment of operations, support, logistics, and socioeconomic and psychological factors for situations. We're paid to plan strategies for the long view. In short it means we have the information, tools, intelligence systems, talent, and know-how at this organization's disposal to reasonably forecast and predict outcomes. {end snip}

{snip 2} Sometimes you can't cee the status of things until they are sorted out. Perhaps the third oppropriate thing is to report that. Then I'll make a beeline home, that would be the pinnacle. With regard to the power question, this is the min time. If the power can be turned-back on. You will need to have users. 2nd law of thermo "energy neither created or destroyed" If the power is running and there aren't any users, it has to go somewhere and be expended. The lines will burn. Most manufacturing is not going to know if and when the power is on. They aren't going to be able to maintain a crew there for several weeks. {end snip 2}

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, while I am by no means a polly, I would ask; is not the information provided in snip 2 out of phase with the claims made in snip 1??? If they "know all and see all" and get paid to make decisions and plans based on said intel, how can we give any credence at all to the statement "sometimes we can't SEE the status of things until they are sorted out"?? Isn't that what "they" are paid for?

While I don't doubt the validity of some of what c4i wrote in his/her 8 points, I find some of it quite dubious. Number 8 is a hoot. As a former Navy cryptologist ((must I provide codewords to prove it?)) I find this stuff hard to swallow. I think maybe c4i has spent some time at the Naval Warfare College site and is playing one-upmanship.

-- Don (dwegner@cheyenneweb.com), June 10, 1999.

Bigdog, now you actually got me thinking it was friday (smile)

Polyester...LOL!!!

Diane: It surprises me how open your mind is...!

MikeTaylor...*what* do you get...and please, let me in on it, ey!

Arlin...Nutz, you dun scared him off, I want him back...

Yikes, when I first read this I thought it was real, then I thought it was fake, then real, then fake....

ARGUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

-- M.Moth (Derigueur2@aol.com), June 10, 1999.

Gee, gang, I go away for a couple hours and return to a New World Order Thread.

Where's Arlin?

:)

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), June 10, 1999.

Actually I think that second snip from another post was from an imposter using that handle.

-- (ahorse@named.ed), June 10, 1999.

Don,

We still don't know whether the second c4i poster was an imposter.

(Then again, we still don't know whether the FIRST c4i poster was an imposter. . .)

Come b-a-a-a-c-k c4i! Come b-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-c-c-c-k-k-k!

:)

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), June 10, 1999.

Alright, boys and girls: here's an excercise for you: "We have an 89.3% rate of our forecasts coming true and this is for events without a definitive date. This organization is studying Y2K. Yes, we are DOD."

89.3% is pretty good for government work ;)

So, we find an organization boasting precisely that accuracy. Probably a think tank, right?

Try here:

http://www.zgram.net/thinktanks.htm

I don't have time for this today, but my first thought upon reading this very wacky thread was The Center for Naval Analysis (the folks behind the NWC excercise and that wild .PPT about the nation's electrical grid leaked on GN's site in April(?).

Nothing obvious in my 2 minute exploration, but the diligent researcher may be rewarded...

hint: clear cookies.txt, disable cookies & java. Wash hands afterwards and don't be an agent of a foreign government.

-- Lewis (aslanshow@yahoo.com), June 10, 1999.

Think back to the days gone by, the "ants" thread, the "patty" thread and the "Andy's in jail" thread. You doomers show your true ignorance so many times. See the picture, stop trying to analyze this one. c4i got you good.

-- Wackos (remember@other.posts), June 10, 1999.

SSBI/SBI, if true, indicates a high level Security Background Investigation. -- Jon Williamson

Please explain, Jon.

Diane: It surprises me how open your mind is...!  -- M.Moth

Ditto.

Thank you.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 10, 1999.

Wow. This one's really fun. Let's see, they'd HAVE to be DoD (if they're real) because the other alphasoup org's have such a great intel track record, right? And the EOTW scenario's just GREAT. Can't wait for it to run on teevee. It'll be a hit, even if it's on the six o'clock news. Note to c4i: copyright it, quick. Now, I admit it's interesting that at least some of us were told by our sysops to get Hotmail addresses for unofficial email. But I have questions about the "xxx" in the address c4i gave. All in all, an interesting excercise. Thanks for the diversion.

-- Lee (lplapin@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999.

First off,

There is No reason for me to believe that guy does not have a lead to real valid info. I have many contacts in Mil. and Gov. that etc.. that tell me quite similar things.

Next, the fact that he used a hotmail account is SOP. I, partners and friends do contract work at government and Military locations. Almost EVERY employee has 1 or many Yahoo &/or Hotmail accounts. Now moving on the any tracking of his IP.. I have installed systems at both government and military locations that have use of public ISP's.. meaning .org and .com (even some of their web sites. common known fact) The reasoning in some areas was just quite simple.. fault tolerance and getting the project done and running with out all the hassle and crap that you have to go through. If only you could imagine some of the degraded and convaluted paths many of these types of sites data flows you would never get a good nights rest. I once found that the main secretary to the commands commanding officer had her computer so mixed up (previous contractors, old programs, etc..) that when EVER she printed that it left her desk in VA went to TN and then to FL where they sent it back to her LPT1 port. The government and military have become wild big and hairy clutters of organizations with in organizations. No everything is managed well at all. We have seen this around the country and world.

As for the young lady who tells of what her friends (informed) son told his family and how they are preparing. I have many contacts who have been told the same. The problem is money to properly prepare and deciding how extended (family wise) you want to go in your family plan. Also not every family group or memeber can handle the truth. I gets a bit messy. But it just takes any one to contact any and all members of the military, gov., etc.. to see what they know and then plan accordingly.

Now, this very important. Arlin Adams is an FBI informant!!! I and others have touched base w/ keeping an eye on him over the years. He is a older middle aged man who is not out in the world, he is partially disabled and does his investigations on the web and via phone contacts (with many groups that don't have everyones best interest in mind.) from his house in MD.

Then as far as the missle launch code info that C4i gave out and some one questioned.. He is right. get real people.. how could you 1 truely believe the Pres. is the only 1 who has the code. So many simple business men hold higher security clearences than that figure head. And many many times other branches or departments with in the gov. and mil. don't even keep the Whitehouse informed of what they do. And secondly, once a missle site is compromised all you need are the keys not the codes ever.. the code is just a vehicle for the permission to launch to be given. Simple stuff that you get taught in grade school if the Q & A gets really interesting.

Why give this guy such a hard time? And why question his sincerity? Does this mean that many of you are not willing to bend or break a rule or order that you see as unjust in order to do a better good for many??

-- Sincere (4real@concerned.all), June 10, 1999.

"Yikes, when I first read this I thought it was real, then I thought it was fake, then real, then fake.... ARGUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

-- M.Moth (Derigueur2@aol.com), June 10, 1999."

M.M - I "get" that! I hate this damn rollercoaster. Opps, can I say damn? rofl

Mike (^5 "a") ===================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), June 10, 1999.

I'm with sincere. Ohhhhhh Arlinnnnnnnnn?

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 10, 1999.

Diane, it's needed for a top secret clearance. SSBI is a type (special classification) within the top secret.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), June 10, 1999.

Just when I thought this thread was wearing out...

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), June 10, 1999.

OK, I am back and in quite a bit of a lather. I am always lurking, rarely, rarely ever posting and see much, hear much, speak little. Why even bother with all of this back and forth crap?? In 6 months we shall all see. I believe we are in for some deep doodoo. If you just watch the .gov and .mil, and read between the lines of Bennett and Dodd, you would have to be a friggin moron not to see this (y2k trouble) headin your way. Y2kpro is a putz for even being here cause he sure as hell not changing my mind.

Listen people, I am a professional technical recruiter and I deal with PEOPLE all damn day. They are ALL IT geeks of some sort. Managers down to help desk peons. I know this about people and IT: They will never admit to being fouled up until they are up to their ass in alligators and crocodiles. Second thing: PEOPLE LIE TO ME EVERY DAMN DAY. Clients tell me what a wonderful utopia their company is and candidates tell mehow wonderfull they are. My company has found that 70% of all resumes are fraudulent to some degree. Y2k is real people. Why don't we all go home and prepare for hard times. I wish upon a star I could see y2kPro and Norm after the rollover. I am stable, semi-well off, and have a good life. I am not some bed wetter who wants a collapse of my world. My world is 6 figures in salary and the life of riley. I hate this y2k crap.

I shall revert back to lurker status now. I need a cold beer and a smoke. Give these guys a break. It sounds real to me. PS-Arlin probably is some cripple spy who likes little boys. Who cares? In 6 months it WILL NOT MATTER! Semper Fidelis, Richard

-- Richard, USMC (rkb65@hotmail.com), June 10, 1999.

I've been lurking for awhile, and boy are you DoD guys thick. As an old Air Force Command Post weenie this stuff is pretty plain.

"Sometimes you can't cee the status of things until they are sorted out." -LOL

cee=C status=status sorted=SORTS (Status Of Reports and Training)

SORTS C Status- Refers to readiness levels

" Perhaps the third oppropriate thing is to report that. Then I'll make a beeline home, that would be the pinnacle."-LOL

third=3 oppropriate=OP report=REP beeline=BEELINE (Code for Pentagon) pinnacle=PINNACLE (Code for Nuke Incident)

OPREP3 BEELINE PINNACLE

-Real Cute -ROTFLMAO

I don't know if this guy is real or if he got a copy of the AFMAN 10-206 Operational Reporting and is screwing with us. He knows the right code though. And the DCID stuff, that is the new way of listing a Top Secret clearance.

-- phred (y2kdudeman@yahoo.com), June 10, 1999.

Well apparently the mystery has been solved with just one question remaining... was it real or just a joke perpetrated with inside information.

The world may never know. Richard is right however, we'll all know about y2k come the rollover. Maybe this forum has left itself open to trolling, especially of late. Perhaps it was just an attempt to excite and arouse an already nervous bunch of people. Or, as someone put, it may be just the plain facts handed to us by a real hero, someone with enough nerve to tell the unpopular truth. Stranger things have happened. Government spooks, doomers, pollyannas, misinformed, uninformed, middle grounders, militiamen, and lurkers.

"Our world has taken a turn for the surreal"

-Captain Miller "Saving private Ryan"

-- (heynow@don'tdream. it's over), June 10, 1999.

***********DISCLAIMER*************** I am not an expert in anything. I am not a programmer, a techie, a consultant, an advisor, a geek. I am not a Polly, Doomer, Gloomer I am JQP  will some brain cells that still have synapsis making connections. I have an open mind. I keep just enough grains of salt on board to avoid having to take Prozac. I have no outstanding qualifications  so therefore the following is merely an opinion  mine and mine alone. I have made preparations  a lot more than most and not enough according to some. I havent completely made up my mind as to how bad it will all get  but firmly believe in hedging bets  therefore my extensive preps. Dont bother checking  I am not using a real email address. Once again, I am hedging my bets. I must stay gainfully employed (at least) until the end of the year and cannot afford to let my neighbors become overly interested in my preps. Paul Milne  my hat off to you for your outspokenness  but that is not an option for me. I have been tuning into this forum for several weeks now  and have been completely fascinated by the interchange.

Today  when I opened this post  I found myself completely riveted  couldnt get a darn thing done at work all day long. At first it scared the bejeebers out of me raised the hairs on the back of my neck and caused pucker factor #11 on a scale of 1-10. Lasted all of 20 seconds. The scary part was not WHAT was posted  but that it had been posted and I was reading it. I fully expected the whole site to be shut down and the net police at my desk. 20 seconds. But I digress.

I have some thoughts that I would like to pose here. I have formulated one lasting opinion based on this post  and that is that ALL of YOU  everyone of you has a healthy respect for the written word of DOD  dept of defense. You may not like it, want to poke holes in it, and deny it. But somehow  when the chips are down  WE look to DOD as the barometer  as if their thoughts and opinions on the subject were some kind of doomsday indicator.

Okay here goes:

***We have a background in C2 (Command and Control). This means we are BIG PICTURE people. We're paid to play the "What If" Game. We're paid to extrapolate information and trend data. We're paid to provide an OVERALL assessment of operations, support, logistics, and socioeconomic and psychological factors for situations. We're paid to plan strategies for the long view. In short it means we have the information, tools, intelligence systems, talent, and know-how at this organization's disposal to reasonably forecast and predict outcomes.***

this is called contingency planning  we all do it, most of us for free. Contingency planning is nothing more than a set of options for what might happen. All of us do this routinely. Traffic snarl on the main road  take back road  back road under construction  take side road  side road closed  call in sick. The whole point is  that there is generally a SET of plans  more than one, less than a million. Government agencies, contractors and think tanks spend a lot of resources planning for what-if. This is standard  no big deal  happens everyday. You think up a what if scenario  and hundreds of folks are completely happy to pop out a contingency plan for it. Then the real work starts  review all the plans, sort them out into catagories, toss out bad ones and finally have a SET of contingency plans that can be put in *THE SAFE*. Take them out periodically, dust them off and start over.

***We have an 89.3% rate of our forecasts coming true and this is for events without a definitive date. This organization is studying Y2K. Yes, we are DOD. No, we don't like this scenario. We believe it is not only possible, it is probable. Our assessment as follows: ***

Please understand and give our government enough benefit of the doubt that this is only ONE SCENARIO out of dozens or hundreds that they are building plans for. Ranking scenarios is another activity all its own  how many other probable scenarios are there?

***1. Because we the government, and in particular him the CINC, has done nothing public other than preach "the winter storm" the country cannot and will not prepare in a timely fashion. We will go 10. The CINC is in deep denial, and still believes with the VCINC that Gates will pull a rabbit out of his hat. ***

I agree. But this is a premise  an assumption  albeit a pretty reasonable one. It forms the background for the scenario.

***2. Initial power outages will be 1-2 weeks in the South and Midwest. The Northeast will experience 3-4 week outages, the West and Southwest 2-3 weeks. We're not talking brownouts. ***

This is a scenario  probably not even the worst case one  but an assumed scenario nonetheless. So to humor this scenario  here is the plan.

***3. Dee Cee will be an armed camp starting 15 Dec 99. ***

why this date? Arbitrary? Maybe. Its the start of the federal holiday schedule. Could be that they will have to contend with the early new year celebrants -

***There are 120 major cities within the U.S.***

Okay. Anyone want to start making a list of these urban centers?

***There are approximately 2.25 million troops; this includes the NG and Reserves.***

Depends entirely on how you count them.

***The cities will be chaotic at best and the troops will not be sent in, they will be used to cordon off areas of unrest. Isolate the fire.***

this one has me buffaloed. Do you have any clue how long it takes to mobilize the troops and what is involved in the process? They would have had to start this process months ago. It would take massive amounts of coordination with city/state/federal activities to even make this feasible. Our expert lost a lot of credibility points with me on this one.

***4. The following industries will be nationalized: Power, Fuel, Transportation, Agriculture (not individual farms), Chemical, Mining, Pharmaceuticals, Hospitals, and Communications. There will be a bank holiday before the rollover -date determined by the people.***

reaching  you can say it in a letter  but actually make it happen  see comment above.

***5. Governors will institute Martial Law for heavily populated areas.***

Within the scenario  given most predictions of bank runs and general end of year panic  reasonable.

***The CINC will usurp the Governors and declare national Martial Law to restrict interstate travel and to mobilize the work force. The CINC's action will be too much for many in both the military and private sector. ***

Doubt it  but this is another piece of the what if scenario

***The "Militia" groups will mobilize.***

This is a scenario in and of itself - if he is referring to the non- sanctioned militia  which I think he is  since most folks call the part time military  reserve forces.

***6. The Congress will activate the inactive Militia "all able bodied males between the ages of 17 and 45" will report to designated staging and training areas, the hope is to quell dissent and re- establish a Constitutional methodology to the event***

What training areas?  so many bases have been closed  the military has a hard enough time finding space to train on now.  this is also a very lengthy process  which is probably why this codicil was added

***. The "Militia" actually a pseudo-militia, they have no Constitutional standing, they don't fall under the discipline prescribed by Congress (Art I, Sec 8, Clauses 15 & 16) will balk. Open insurrection ensues ***

***7. Famine and disease will breakout in the parts of the cities not under Martial Law. Fighting is widespread for strategic transportation hubs, fuel depots, armories, and granaries. More service members desert or join the militia. Class warfare ensues. ***

just a scenario  depends on the power outages. My credibility is stretched when you are only talking 4 weeks of no power for all this to happen.

***8. Several missile launch complexes are taken. Negotiation with Dee Cee begins. NORAD falls via an insider. Dee Cee capitulates. ***

ROFLMAO. Something about to the victor go the spoils

***There is no definitive timeline other than the panic will ensue Sept-Oct timeframe. ***

Now  to put this in perspective  this is a collection of what if scenarios and some what if contingencies. Did this plan make the cut? Where is the rest of the plan if it did? My opinion  based on the premise that the poster was a naove intern (highly probable) is that this one was on the cutting room floor he was supposed to be sweeping up.

Okay  fingers numb  will shut up now  feel a lot better.

-- jqp (jqp@anywhere.com), June 10, 1999.

Thanks Maria.

Was wondering.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 10, 1999.

He started a new thread you guys

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 10, 1999.

Okay, I give up. What does CINC stand for?

-- Globe-ular (globe-ular@bigfoot.com), June 10, 1999.

continued on

Weak Link

xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 10, 1999.

Yea, they're having fun with this over at Debunkhouse. Only one even semi-serious comment, though. This one, by Robin Messing:

http:// www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb237006&MyNum= 929064609&P=Yes&TL=929036309

-- dot (dot@dot.dot), June 10, 1999.

*ahem*

Arlin took the new Mrs. Adams out to supper...and yes, as she pointed out to me it's Thursday, not Friday...*sigh* this being newly married tends to be disorienting. and no Richard, I like one particular woman a whole lot - the one I just married...sheesh...

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), June 10, 1999.

LOL! oh and since I got email asking - 'sincere' isn't - as anyone who attended the northern Virginia get together can find out for themselves simply by contacting the individual with whom I arrived that evening - who also knows where I live...which happens to be in Northern Virginia, not Maryland...

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), June 10, 1999.

Arlin -

How dare you leave your computer! Didn't you know you had to stay and defend yourself? by leaving you show you had no grounds for your arguments;)

Congrats on the new marriage!:)

-- b (b@b.b), June 11, 1999.

Has c4i been reprimanded by c3po?

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), June 11, 1999.

Arlin,

I do not know if you need an apology, but I am sorry if I was offensive. I am a very happily married man, and I hold the institution of marriage to a sacred thing. My point was: who cares about you or me or anyone. In 6 months, all of our discussions here will be irrelevant.

Best Regards, Richard, USMC

-- Richard, USMC (rkb65@hotmail.com), June 11, 1999.

Wish I could convert the wasted brain-energy expended on this thread into money. I could retire a wealthy man.

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), June 11, 1999.

This is one of the worst spoofs I have ever seen. Too many obvious mistakes and gaffes to waste much time on.

I am Director, Year 2000 International Security Dimension Project, US Naval War College. No pretend names from me. Bio at both NWC site and at personal site at geocities.

Check out our site at http://www.nwc.navy.mil/dsd/y2ksited/y2ksite.htm at War College, or, for .mil-domain challenged, our duplicate at geocities:

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/6926/y2ksite.htm

We're actually doing what this spoof artist claims to do.

The future is transparency.

-- Thomas Barnett (barnettt@nwc.navy.mil), June 11, 1999.

What a delight to hear from you Mr. Barnett! (I'm guessing someone will email you to confirm it's you.)

Your site has been the subject of discussion on this forum. Many have reviewed the info there.

We assume you've made it public for a reason. Would you be so kind as to elaborate as to why?

And. . .when you write "The future is transparency," would you please elaborate?

My email address is also real. Thanks!

:)

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), June 11, 1999.

Sheesh!

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 11, 1999.

"The future is transparency". The way I would put this for myself (and do in my own business as well as personal thinking) is:

"Information is moving too fast to waste bandwidth on deception. Everything necessary is hiding in plain sight/site (sic) already (cf YT2K for prime example).

The challenge is interpretation and right action in real-time that matches the rhythm of the event (cf Kosovo for negative example). This can't be faked or plagerized. Everything else, in the end, is BS."

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), June 11, 1999.

Y2K. Good typing skills still at a premium.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), June 11, 1999.

Yep. LOL, Big Dog.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 11, 1999.

This certainly was not helpful to those of us looking for real information and puts me in mind what sort of disinformation will be circulating more and more as time goes on. People are irrepresible, it seems, even when the health and safety of others is at stake. What a shame. Having read the material from the U.S. War College, it is obvious how different the tone is! (Thank God!) Funny that the troops will be massing in D.C. at the same time the partygoing that the Clintons want will be getting underway. What chaos.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), June 11, 1999.

BTW, we are long past "interpretation" necessity with pre-Y2K, anyway. "Right action" is full-scale prep, finishing by August 1 at latest. See "dancr" post on Faryna's "Milne goes 10" thread for superb example of right action based on transparency.

.... in a best case (BITR, ha!), she has some nice antiques, maps and some fabric ....

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), June 11, 1999.

Has anyone authenticated the e-mail address of the alleged Barnett post?

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), June 11, 1999.

Mr. Thomas Barnett,

Thank you for responding here. We're just a group of researchers, et. al. (who knows?) trying to figure out "the truth" of Y2K or not 2K. Kind'a like your team, only here there's no budget, and numerous trolls to wade through.

Haven't had a chance to look at your site (heard lots about it), but will make it this weekend's project.

;-D

Very curious! Appreciate you making it publicly available.

So, would you care to comment on the Y2K situation from where you sit?

Thanks!

Diane

(BTW, my "e" works too).

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 11, 1999.

Just to put the original post in perspective, let me explain a few things that you could probably figure out for yourself if you just thought a little bit. Ask yourself this "What does the military do when there isn't a war? Do they stand at ease all day?" No, of course not. And they don't play solitaire either. They need something to occupy their time, and what they do (among other things I'm sure) is come up with scenarios and then make plans for how they would deal with those scenarios, should they occur. For example, a scenario/plan existed for "trouble in the Middle East". When Saddam invaded Kuwait, it was executed. They don't just impulsively send troops to an area without having a plan for housing, feeding and resupplying them. Ninety percent of the scenarios are things that have never happened. Why plan for something that would never happen? Because you don't know what will happen, and neither does the military. Just because c4i found a plan on the cutting room floor does not mean it will ever be executed. Of course, if it has to be, then it will be. But you already knew that, right?

-- at work (abcdef@aol.com), June 11, 1999.

c4i: Take your Lithium and Prozac like a good boy.

-- kozak (kozak@formerusaf.guv), June 11, 1999.

God here, listen up children ...

I know some of you will question my authenticity, therefore I post my credentials accordingly:

1. Directed the creation of the heavens and the earth upon which you stand down to the silicon in your chips. 2. Did the whole job in seven days 3. Author of the original "Ten Commandments" and can name them all ...question is, can you? 4. My e-mail address is inaccessible and will bounce back when I finish posting. 5. I prophesy many will declare me a sham, a fake and a charlatin after reading this post. 6. I prohesy many will waste their time debating "why would God utilize a website to communicate with his children ?" (Because you are HERE you silly creatures!) 7. I am the only person who knows the exact hour, day and year that I have chosen bring about the end of the world as you know it. 8. I hold the secret as to whether O.J. really did it or not. 9. I am the only one that can answer the question "If the Jews are His chosen people, how come He lets them be dumped on all of the time?" 10. I have the winning numbers to all of next weeks winning lottery tickets ... but I don't care because I don't need the money. 11. I created a mixture of people of various races and colors as a test to see if you would keep the second greatest commandment that I ever devised. By the way, how's your neighbor doing this morning ? 12. I don't have to trace my genealogy back to anybody ... I am, therefore I am. 13. The chicken came first. 14. UFO's are real...just ask anybody who has ever seen one. 15. I once aimlessly sketched lines and pictures upon the face of the southern portion of the northern hemisphere ... if you look, you will see they are still there...but only visable from a great height. 16. I know that Arliss does not say his prayers ... 17. The only thing I can not do is to get my team to win a baseball game ... for though I have all of the great players, Satan has all of the Umpires ! 18. "Forever" is the square root of infinity times pi 19. Most of you will not go to church today. 20. MacArthur got the line "I shall return" from me !

Score Yourself: If you believe between:

20-15 True believer 15-10 Logical thinker 10-5 Doubting Thomas 5-0 c4i Critic

-- God (heaven@celestial.com), June 13, 1999.

This is a phony post from a spoofed .mil domain.

-- (testing@123.mil), June 13, 1999.

Here's a phony post from a spoofed IP in Korea.

-- C. How Easy (tesing@123.kr), June 13, 1999.

Hmmm, wander back to re-read something and looky there. One for the SYSOPs: Do those "phony" posts appear legit? Any Hackers among us who have turned away from the Dark side? ;)

-- Lewis (aslanshow@yahoo.com), June 14, 1999.

Arlin H. Adams is an FBI informant. He MAY be truely concerned about Y2K but he is NEVER to be trusted. This type of forum and use-net pariticipation is his MO. The plan is to have a minimum of 3 of his team here. They post off one another or start some provacative thought. Any one in his business would surely consider a vast majority of Y2K GI's ripe for catagorization into his tracking data. He works with and for many strange organizations that don't have everyones best interest in mind. I knew of Arlins activities about 4 - 5 yrs ago. We even had photos of his house and car etc.. He gets paid to make a big deal out of little things. (like piece work factory employees.. the more names [even if have nothing to do with anything] he can put on his lists and create stories or senerios about them or show correlating or connecting themes the more he is valued by his paycheck masters).

I am a GI & found this forum in my Y2K research. I was very shocked to see Arlin H. Adams here. Did you notice that he did not deny my claims (the TRUTH). I have nothing to gain by my statements. Only hope that he does not harm anyone here. The only mistake I made was in confussing him briefly with a person in MD.. I believe Arlin was the informant / provacatuer in Arlington. He is a middle aged man, partially disabled, on disability. I think the photo we had was of an old red or blue car.. I believe he was not clean shaven at the time. (it was a long time ago when we were tracking his actions on the web, usenet trolling.. looking to set people up and send info to the organizations that pay him) If you do a simple Deja News you can most likely find some of the trails of his activity. If any of you are in a sensitive situation or are interested in making sure you deal only in honorable people don't give him any info that he could use to set you up.

PS. I am not using any account that is link to me or anyone I know. I am not even in a location that is connected to me. So Arlin don't waste your time trying any retribution. I am no one of any importance but just some one with a big heart and concern for persons (mostly GI Parents or caregivers)in this forum and others. I am just concerned for the situations I have seen you and your check senders put people in. They have a history of going against, gun clubs/organizations, attack many religious organizations, or strong Libretarians, or more concervatives, he works with Militia Watch, Souther Poverty Law office (a very crooked money scam), Nitzcor, and some "minority" special interest groups. I am sure that ANY of you who even mentioned once seeing a Bo Gritz (who I personally do not find too darn sincere or consistant, and a bit self serving) book at Wal-Mart were put on his list.

Persons like this are practiced usenet monitors. I don't have much experience with him here but in a sense of community and fellowship I do want to raise the ALERT FLAG for any of you who may be affected by him. Again as you can see, I get nothing from telling you this. I do perhaps risk some or many things. But I feel it is my duty. Take care and focus on yourself and families first and formost.

-- Sincere (4real@concerned.all), June 14, 1999.

*sigh* Welcome to the "wilderness of mirrors"...

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), June 14, 1999.

"To 'Sincere' and the regulars:

Arlin could be head of the CIA for all I know. However, based on what I do know of him, including a visit to his infamous house, I would be astonished if you were correct. He is certainly hiding all the money he earns from his nefarious activities VERY cleverly.

He has acted with complete integrity towards me, so far as I can judge, on multiple occasions in real life.

Considering that a fake "real name" with no postings about his actual life, address or relationships would, one thinks, have gotten this man a lot further as a spook than using his real "real name", your charge seems quite bizarre on the face of it.

However, just for laughs, let's suppose you are right.

Whether it is Arlin or a spook lurker, I assume in any case that EVERYTHING I post on Yourdon is visible. I assume that all of my email privately to anyone on the Internet is visible. I assume that I may be on any number of government "lists", though I hope not. The idea is repulsive.

Still, if you know anything about privacy on the Internet (there is none, for anyone interested), this won't surprise you.

The only defense against potential tyranny (including unwarranted spying by governments upon their own citizens) is to obey the laws of that land, except/if they are directly countermanded by the laws of God (obviously, I am compelled by my own convictions to speak here as a Christian). In such cases, one must be prepared to suffer the consequences of disobeying the state.

Thankfully, I have never been placed in that position and I pray God that I will not need to be or that, if He puts me there, He will also give me the courage needed to endure.

"Sincere's" character and bona fides are up for grabs. Arlin's has been made visible across many posts and to others in real life. If he is a spook, he can join all the others who seem to think our efforts here at Yourdon are valuable enough to merit their attention!

If "Sincere" is wrong (and what can Arlin say without being suckered into a "have you stopped beating your wife?" situation, it is the most vicious charge ever leveled at a Yourdonite by far and utterly despicable.

It is no less despicable for being completely irrelevant, if one stops to think seriously about it. Why? Because it remains the trolls who denigrate Y2K and Y2K preparation who are the real danger to you and me on THIS forum.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), June 14, 1999.

I agree BD,

Arlin has always seemed on the up and up, and posts under his real name.

And as far as being monitored goes, who cares! This is still America folks, you are allowed to express an opinion on any subject you desire. For cryin out loud, it's not like we're breaking any laws because we are concerned about what the turn of the clock will bring on 1-1-2000.

-- Unc D (unkeed@yahoo.com), June 14, 1999.

Hi in-sincere,

your allegations were not denied because they are laughable - I do not now, nor have I ever worked for the FBI or any federal (or state for that matter) law enforcement agency. More to the point, and although you seem too dense to realize it (denseness being a trait common among white supremacists as well) you discreditted your entire effort in your first post concerning me. You see the folks who were at the Northern Virginia get together all know where I live - I mentioned it several times, in fact one of the other participants gave me a ride over from my place to the meeting with me... and you guessed wrong on the state dude...totally wrong.

the question I have to wonder about is why the smear campaign? and why that particular tactic - one used primarily by white supremacists when they attempt to discredit members of nonracist militia organizations. It's also interesting that you posted your initial accusations from an ISP here in the DC metro area...just like another racist (er, 'israel identity') poster on this board whom we haven't seen for several weeks...so who twisted your tail?

Your buddies in your organization decide they didn't like the idea that I was actually teaching people how to organize locally? Kinda takes the wind out of the line you neonazis try to use when you tell rural preparedness groups you're the only game in town, now doesn't it? In point of fact that's a main motivation for my consenting to help with discussions on community defense and preparedness. I'm not the only one, either, just the only one visible to you in this environment. We're working all over the US specificly to ensure that no matter where you little neonazis go, you'll meet a cold reception from prepared and organized communities - American communities - which will neither have need for, nor in any way desire, your presence among them.

You see, little neonazi, however sincerely racist you may be, your beliefs and goals are entirely antithetical to the American way of life, the Constitution of the United States, and even more imporatantly in my case, to anything resembling Christian morality. So yeah, I'm here, no there is no way you're going to mess up my credibility; yes, I'm going to do my best to see to it that as many of these folks as possbile, who want to, have the basic knowledge to organize their communities as they see fit for their own defense, and if you don't like that, well that's just too bad...you little nazis never have the guts to do anything anyway...all talk, no action, just like all the rest of your cowardly friends.

Arlin Adams

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), June 14, 1999.

Lewis,

Several researchers are studying these posts quite seriously. With the help of the Moderators and the Sysop(s) we are moving S-L-O-W-L-Y.

What we do know is the first poster the real c4i on this thread came in on a bonafide dot mil ISP. There are also four KEY threads to this issue...

#1 -- Why Paul Milne is a Polly (Category: Government)

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000w5S

#2 -- Weak Link (Category: Government)

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000wIA

#3 -- WHY I THINK c4i IS A DOOMER TROLL (Category: Uncatagorized)

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000wKw

#4 -- c4i, how might you wish us best respond to your disclosures? (Category: Uncatagorized)

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000wOI

The fake c4i began posting on the Weak Link thread coming in on a completely diffferent proxy ISP and phred (y2kdudeman@yahoo.com) is somehow linked to the faker.

We suspect, someone (in-sincere? et.al.) has a vested interest in attacking Arlin, for some unknown reason. We will take time to figure that out too. Count on it.

On the forth thread the real c4i comes back in from the SAME dot mil ISP, one more time.

Conclusion? Who knows?

Its all just fascinatingly interesting at this point in time.

And, Ive observed, that things are *almost* never what they appear to be. Especially with HOT Y2K topics.

Diane...

...jus little ole Y2K researcher me trying to figure out why this c4i firecracker SPOOKED so many unusual posters and triggered such a WIDE array of comments and baking-soda statement on a perceived fire. To the level of someone whos a Director of the Naval War College feeling compelled to respond. Why, I wonder?

Sheesh!

Curiouser and curiouser!

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 14, 1999.

Having been a daily visitor to this forum for what seems like a half an eternity I'd like to offer my support to Arlin as well. I've had the opportunity to converse with him via e-mail, he's offered perspective and advice which is always both balanced and objective. I've also been privy to his views and advice to fellow posters regarding what I would consider extreme views (consistant to what he has addressed above regarding neonazis).

That's all.

Regarding c4i. There is much more here than meets the eye at a casual glance. Who is using us and who is informing us?

Mike ==============================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), June 14, 1999.

What a freak!!

Arlin, Where the heck did all your spew about Nazis come from. What the heck would be your motive here? Sick!

I have no idea about any of this nonsense the Arlin is ranting about at the moment. But since I know who I am and my motives it makes me truely wonder his.

Who ALL do you work for Arlin? Since you seem to want to go on a binge then why not inform the list with what organizations and in what fashion you "crusade" on their behalf. I suppose your bringing up such strange topics and terms was your way of skewing the tread or "using the race card" seemed like a cheap ploy to me. I am not on this forum to deal with Arlin or even debate him. I just was darn shocked to see him here and wanted to just put out a warning.

I am a concerned GI who works with in the gov./mil/ as a contractor. I have seen first hand how crippled they are in even understanding Y2K let alone getting there IT managers, IMO's (Information Management Officers) to even grasp it. (many IMO's don't even know how to drag and click, and are products of rifts and replacement. These things are what really scare me about Y2K. Whole governement entitities or branches have people in charge of their entire IT arena that know less about computers than my elemetary aged kids)

And Diane we have met many times at the Sacred Space events (I was very tickled to see you here) even back when they were called Ecuminacon. You and your mother have done great selfless work and were very helpful. :)

I am no threat to anyone here. I don't see why the attacks on me. I only stated what is known to be true by many organizations. Because some of the people that Arlin works for are against MANY different organizations or beliefs, religious, life style, 2nd amendment etc.. He also does alot of rabid work pointing the NAZI, Heritic finger all around. Yes I know he does not live a "rich" existance but this does not stop him from working with many of these nefarious organizations.

Like I said I am a GI, have been for years. Even though didn't start to stock up until last year. I to am very active in working with our local governments and working on the community level (my HOA). I volunteer my time. I am not forcing ANY of you to believe me. But I thought it was my duty to warn anyone who might find it of importance to them. Like I said do some Deja-news searches to find out for yourself how you feel on this man or this matter. I am not the focus nor the issue. The reality is Y2K effecting everyone to some level and making it very difficult for caregivers. I have always believed that for true survival Trust is the key. Know who you can trust and know how to be a True friend to those that call you the same.

Blessings

-- Sincere (4real@concerned.all), June 15, 1999.

Sincere,

Frankly, I don't KNOW anything nor "who is who" anymore especially after studying the four key threads.

"And Diane we have met many times at the Sacred Space events (I was very tickled to see you here) even back when they were called Ecuminacon."

"Ecuminacon???" Don't recognize that term. SS as in GB?

You can "e" me privately, if you choose... c4i certainly did, and I haven't shared the LONG "e" sent with anyone.

Donno nuthin' except it's time for another latte!

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 15, 1999.

Hhhmm, it keeps getting stranger. Mr. Anti-Arlin, could you please give clear details as to your warnings to caregivers, specifically?

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 15, 1999.

weren't expecting to be called on it, were you in-sincere? LOL! if people go back and reread your attacks on me, they will find that despite your strident claims to having been part of a group of people who had me under observation, the only things you really know about me are knowledge that is commonly available to anyone who has been reading the forum for a while: that I'm a partially disabled vet. The rest of your 'accusations' were all fishing expeditions: you don't know where I live, or where I used to live, you don't know what I look like, you don't know what my car looks like, or even what I looked or my car looked like when you were supposedly surveilling me!

LOL! you need to go back to usenet little neonazi - your tactics rarely even work over there anymore, and they certainly wont work over here. It really is funny - this is the only technique you folks have ever come up with for attacking militia members on the net...and you've used it so many times that no one takes you seriously anymore - better contact your fearful leaders and ask what to do next, before you make your movement (and I use that term advisedly) even more of a laughingstock than it already is.

Arlin Adams

[who, being disabled/retired does still do volunteer stuff at church, and could, therefore say that if anything he works for God.]

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), June 15, 1999.

Sending this golden oldie back up to the top per specific eMail request. c4i has posted short sentences since this infamous debut.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), September 18, 1999.

So......where DID Arlin go?

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), September 19, 1999.

whoa, how many of you think the first post is going to come true? seems he misjudged the spin effect but what about the rest, i think it will happen, mobilize the work force, The Congress will activate the inactive Militia, wow, different and busy times

-- no panic yet (wait@til.January), November 04, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

There is no definitive timeline other than the panic will ensue Sept-Oct timeframe.

This part, at least, is off base.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), November 04, 1999.