Perhaps the rich man in Matt 19...greenspun.com : LUSENET : Ask Jesus : One Thread |
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How to obtain eternal life:
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg2343.htm
Perhaps the rich man who couldn't seem to obtain eternal life--even though he said he was following all the commands.., and even though he was coming to Jesus--needed to recognize the very thing we all need to recognize about ourselves.....
You can't preach grace until you preach law because no one can understand what grace means unless he understands what the law requires. No one can understand mercy unless he understands guilt. You cannot preach a gospel of grace unless you've preached a message of law. And that's what Jesus did with the young man--He bound him to the commandments of God. He wanted the man to admit he had fallen short of the divine standard. Jesus wanted him to understand he needed to get right with a holy God and not just have his psychological needs met.
The Ruler's response and his perception of the law: "All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
The response of the young man is incredible: "All these things have I kept from my youth up."
Maybe the rich young ruler never murdered anyone, committed adultery, stole anything, or lied. Perhaps he thought he honored his father and his mother. He probably did those things based on his external concept of righteous behavior. But when Jesus confronted him with an internal command such as loving his neighbor as himself, he was only deceiving himself when he said he kept them all. Now we know he's not telling the truth, so he has at least violated the command of not bearing false witness. But the majority of Jews had so externalized the law that they never dealt with the heart.
In Matthew 5:21-37 Jesus internalized the law with statements like these: "I know you don't think you murder, but when you hate someone, you commit murder in your heart. I know you don't think you commit adultery, but when you look on a woman with lust, you've committed adultery in your heart. When you divorce your wives without biblical grounds, you commit adultery as well. And I know you say you don't lie, but you lie through the phony oaths you make."
Jesus confronted the people throughout Matthew 5. They might have looked good on the outside, but on the inside they were full of evil. The Ten Commandments are external behavior patterns that indicate right attitudes. It isn't enough to avoid killing someone; you also shouldn't hate the person. It isn't enough to avoid committing adultery; you shouldn't even want to do it. The young man didn't understand the internal character of God's law; he only understood the external requirements. On the outside he believed he had kept all the commands.
What is amazing is that the man made his confession of righteousness in the presence of all the people. He must have believed they would affirm his righteousness. And that was his problem. He had no sense of having violated God at all. Jesus couldn't take him on those terms--He had to open him up to his sin.
Walter Chantry in his Today's Gospel: Authentic or Synthetic? cites the following: "When you see that men have been wounded by the law, then it is time to pour in the balm of Gospel oil. It is the sharp needle of the law that makes way for the scarlet thread of the Gospel. You have to wound them before you can sew them up" ([Carlisle, Penn.: Banner of Truth, 1970], p. 43).
The young man didn't think he had a problem with sin. With that attitude he couldn't be saved. He didn't understand the meaning of salvation--that a sinner comes to God and asks for forgiveness. If you don't think you've sinned, you can't be saved.
The man diligently sought eternal life, so when he asked the right question Jesus confronted him with his sin, but he wouldn't confess it. Confession of sin and repentance are essential in salvation. Our Lord illustrates that for us here. The young man missed the point of God's law. He had externalized it, failing to understand that it was only an indication of how God wanted the heart to be.
At the end of Matthew 19:20 the young man said, "What do I still lack?" In his mind he had tried to keep the commandments, and was convinced he did. That is the way self-righteous religion works. It is self-deceiving. The man believed he was righteous. He believed he had kept the law. That's why he couldn't figure out what he still needed to do. He had no idea he had fallen short of God's law.
Mark 10:21 says, "Then Jesus, beholding him, loved him." The man was sincere and genuine, and Jesus loved him. He is not willing that any should perish (2 Pet. 3:9). The Lord was about to die for the sins of that man and He longed for the salvation of his soul. Nevertheless Jesus still wouldn't take him on his terms. The rich young ruler needed to understand his utter sinfulness.
There must be confession and repentance to obtain eternal life. They are a work of the Holy Spirit, not some pre-salvation human work. We are dependent on the Spirit of God for the realization that we have offended a holy God. Jesus wouldn't take the man without his confessing his sin and understanding that he must turn from it.
-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 06, 2004
*bump*
-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 06, 2004.
I don't think the problem was sin, Faith.What Jesus asked of that young man, Faith, was more than leaving riches behind, but of commiting himself to a cause which was perilous, at most.
Jesus spoke of taking a cross, a following him. I don't think that most of us if Jesus instead had come into the 21st century would follow him in the same manner his disciples did.
Most would think Jesus sounded too naive. They wouldn't follow him even in our century.
Think about this: When I said to the Catholics in 2002 that God had spoken to me , and that also Jesus had left me a revelation, they thought I was nuts!!!
And yet, everyday, over 500 million Pentecostals, Charismatics,...say God's Holy Spirit comes to them, figure that out!!!
I wonder why the Holy Spirit has yet to tell them they should join into one single Church. After all, the Spirit should be about unity, not disunity.
So Faith, if Yahweh or his Son Jesus revealed to you what you should do, will you do it, regardless of the consequences?
The Christian Yahwist
The Man of Yahweh
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 07, 2004.
Let me put it this way Elpidio..,Revelation for the world--for the universe, unto salvation, has been made. It is finished. There is nothing more that needs to be added to God's Holy Word.
So if some spirit told me anything that I couldn't confirm in the Scriptures as far as salvation and God's Word goes--I would reject it as not being from God.
But I do believe that we each., personally, can hear from the Holy Spirit with regards to our personal lives. For example, we pray for guidance in things like how to handle a situation between ourselves and a loved one or a business partner., or how to best spend our money, or what career path should we take., etc. But even in this--we should check it out to see if the message lines up with God's Word.
So to answer your question about whether I would do whatever Jesus told me.., he has told me everything I need to know already in His Word. And He has left His Spirit with me., so I don't necessarily expect to be hearing from Jesus on some personal level like in an apparition or something.
But as far as salvation and eternal life is concerned--God has sent His Son and He has revealed how we may enter eternal life in heaven with Him.
Jesus' whole point to the rich young man was that if he wanted to be perfect, nothing he had done nor would do would ever amount to the kind of perfection that God is..
We need to understand that we simply cannot work our way to heaven. We come to God by His grace which is Jesus Christ.
-- (faith01@myway.com), June 08, 2004.
Faith, you have fallen into the same type of fallacy Jews also fell into: Whatever is written is written, whatever was done , is done.... So they stop their writings by 400 BC (Ezra). That's is why they were not receptive to Jesus message.This Sounds like like the depressing mood of the writer of Qohelet (Ecclesiastes): There is nothing new under the Sun.
That is why God Yahweh cannot even enter people's hearts any more.
That morning on July 23, 2000, he said this to me about Protestants after I asked him," who are these Yahweh?":
He answered: "These are Protestants". "What do you want me to do?(I asked). "You will preach to them" (he replied).
As I saw the Protestants, all of them were in their Sunday best, with a Bible in their hand.
That is absolutely true: Protestants have the Bible, they know what is God's plan for salvation,
Jesus yet, they cannot see him through the scriptures. Protestants still think God's name is God, Jesus, or Lord, even though his name is there 7000 times!!!
His name is Yahweh.
I know the difference, because in the same night vision, I also talked to Jesus. Jesus problem was with Catholics. They don't use the Bible. They don't even know him. They pray to Mary or the saints. They never think of him, only when they are deeply into difficult problems.
Like Jesus said: "They only look for me when they need me.' (Solo me buscan cuando me necesitan). Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God. (Blue Bible)
I discovered this by age 25 in 1987. Remember, I came out of Catholicism. We don't read the Bible but in Church in the missalette..
The Christian Yahwist
The Man of Yahweh
The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 08, 2004.
To Elpidio.. You said:Faith, you have fallen into the same type of fallacy Jews also fell into: Whatever is written is written, whatever was done , is done.... So they stop their writings by 400 BC (Ezra). That's is why they were not receptive to Jesus message. This Sounds like like the depressing mood of the writer of Qohelet (Ecclesiastes): There is nothing new under the Sun.
The difference is that the Jews had an incomplete revelation. They are left still waiting for their promised Messiah--even though the window of opportunity has long since passed.
I am no longer waiting for Messiah--because He came. The New Testament is the second half of the total picture--Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Covenant. He brought in the New Covenant.
I lack nothing...
The Word of God is the Living Word--simply recorded for generations to come.
That is why God Yahweh cannot even enter people's hearts any more.
Are you serious? I witness God convicting souls with His Word and Jesus entering the lives of these people every day!
That morning on July 23, 2000, he said this to me about Protestants after I asked him," who are these Yahweh?":
He answered: "These are Protestants". "What do you want me to do?(I asked). "You will preach to them" (he replied).
How do you know you weren't being deceived by a false spirit?
As I saw the Protestants, all of them were in their Sunday best, with a Bible in their hand.
That is absolutely true: Protestants have the Bible, they know what is God's plan for salvation,Jesus yet, they cannot see him through the scriptures.
You are confusing me. What the heck are you talking about? Who can't see Jesus in His Word? I can--Jesus revealed Himself to me through His Word. I was reading His Words when He opened my eyes.
Protestants still think God's name is God, Jesus, or Lord, even though his name is there 7000 times!!!
Um., that is silly. I can list many names by which I know my Lord and Savior....He is Elohim.,El Elyon., El Roi.., El Shaddai.,Adonai.,Jehovah.,Jehovah-jireh.,Jehovah-rapha.,as well as Yahweh., just to name a few.
His name is Yahweh.
I know the difference, because in the same night vision, I also talked to Jesus. Jesus problem was with Catholics. They don't use the Bible. They don't even know him. They pray to Mary or the saints. They never think of him, only when they are deeply into difficult problems.
Like Jesus said: "They only look for me when they need me.' (Solo me buscan cuando me necesitan). Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God. (Blue Bible)
While I agree that the Catholic people need to become more familiar with the Word--I certainly don't think you are doing much better trusting visions that you have no idea where they come from. What makes that different from the Catholics trusting Marian apparitions?
I discovered this by age 25 in 1987. Remember, I came out of Catholicism. We don't read the Bible but in Church in the missalette..
Well, Elpidio., you are certainly not in any better a place trusting any old spirit that talks to you.
God's Word tells us that we are to test any spirit or message to be sure that it is from God by holding it up to the Scriptures. He warns that many false Christs and prophets have gone out into the world. The only way we can protect ourselves is to wear the Word of God as a breastplate., this way we can ward off the flaming arrows of the evil one...
I wonder how you can know you are not totally deceived...
-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 08, 2004.
The Jews still waiting because Christians have made Jesus same as God Yahweh. In the beginning many Jews joined the Way, the original name of the Church (Acts 2-3, 19, 20-24). Later, when Gentiles made Jesus God, they went back into Judaism since they were persecuted as a heresy when they wwere known as Ebionites or Nazoreans.The difference is that the Jews had an incomplete revelation. They are left still waiting for their promised Messiah
Yo make the assumption that everything we have received about Jesus is true, knowing quite well he never wrote a book. Neither did he dictate like Paul, letters. Neither did the rest of his 12 apostles.
So in essence, we believe that stuff written years later by followers of his disciples is true. Also, when we know there are many different versions of the same text.
Also, there is borrowing from the Gospels. Mathew borrowed from Mark and Thomas. He made up his own sections. He also tried to make Jesus fit old Testament scriptures. Luke borrowed from the 3. He took what fit him. John borrowed primarily from Mark and the first letter of John.
Once you begin to see that, then, you will realize that there is more than meets the eye.
You can live by the scripture or you can die by the scripture. If the scripture is from God, you live, if not, you die.
That is why I have to make sure that my revelations were from God Yahweh and Jesus himself.
The Christian Yahwist
The Man of Yahweh
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 09, 2004.
Elpidio..,You said:
The Jews still waiting because Christians have made Jesus same as God Yahweh. In the beginning many Jews joined the Way, the original name of the Church (Acts 2-3, 19, 20-24). Later, when Gentiles made Jesus God, they went back into Judaism since they were persecuted as a heresy when they wwere known as Ebionites or Nazoreans.
So then., let me ask you..who did Jesus claim to be?
Jesus said of His body, "Destroy this Temple, and I will raise it again in three days" (John 2:19,21).
Doesn't the Bible say that God raised Jesus from the dead? Yet Jesus said of His body, "Destroy this Temple, and I will raise it again in three days."
"I lay down My life--only to take it up again...I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again" (John 10:17-18)
Who raised Jesus from the dead?
"We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life." (Romans 6:4)
"When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways." (Acts 3:26)
You make the assumption that everything we have received about Jesus is true, knowing quite well he never wrote a book. Neither did he dictate like Paul, letters. Neither did the rest of his 12 apostles.
We know that Jesus sent His Holy Spirit to bring to their remebrance all that He taught them so that they could write it down for us.
John 14:23-26
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. "All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
So in essence, we believe that stuff written years later by followers of his disciples is true. Also, when we know there are many different versions of the same text.
No Elpidio--we know no such thing. The disciples did indeed write the Scriptures--and the power behind God's Word to convict even the hardest of hearts still to this day--is undeniable. I know, because it happened to me.
Also, there is borrowing from the Gospels. Mathew borrowed from Mark and Thomas. He made up his own sections. He also tried to make Jesus fit old Testament scriptures. Luke borrowed from the 3. He took what fit him. John borrowed primarily from Mark and the first letter of John.
I would like to see your proof. The commonality reveals that Jesus' disciples and apostles were writing almost right away--and the actual events were fresh in their mind--and with the help of the Holy Spirit--we can be sure that we have God's Word exactly as God wanted for us to have.
I wonder why you believe at all if the very source from which we know Jesus--you reject.
You reject all the Scriptures as being false or written by unqualified people. So therefore., maybe Jesus isn't even real--yet he visits you??
Once you begin to see that, then, you will realize that there is more than meets the eye.
You can live by the scripture or you can die by the scripture. If the scripture is from God, you live, if not, you die.
That is why I have to make sure that my revelations were from God Yahweh and Jesus himself.
So how, may I ask., can you be sure that you are not deceived? What do you test these spirits with?
-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 09, 2004.
Except for the temple saying, Faith,the scriptures are 10 to one that it was God (Yahweh) who raised Jesus. Examples from the Blue Bible: Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Act 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to [his] promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
Try to see if you can do these things (I did that already at 19, Faith): 1)Combine the 4 received Gospels into one 2) Find what Jesus message was 3)Locate all of Christian common beliefs 4) See if the scriptures about Jesus don't apply to others 5) Compare the 4 received Gospels (I know you don't accept Thomas) in the passages where they agree. See the similarities and differences.
See my findings on John's gospel:
The Christian Yahwist
The Man of Yahweh
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 10, 2004.
So Elpidio.,Rather than recognizing revelation--which Jesus so subtly gives us in John:
Jesus said of His body, "Destroy this Temple, and I will raise it again in three days" (John 2:19,21).
and..
"I lay down My life--only to take it up again...I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again" (John 10:17-18)
You have decided what?
That those verses are add-ins?
You can deny the parts of Scripture that don't fit your religion if you want to--but me, I will remember that it was by this Bible that I was convicted of my sin--it is through these Scriptures that i came to recognize truth and where jesus revealed Himself to me--and it is by these Words that I have lived a changed life.
Why would I reject any of these Words if not all of them?
You have not proven to me that there is any reason to do what you do.
The Scriptures harmonize beautifully through my believing eyes.
-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 10, 2004.
Trying to pass a fast one on me, Faith?I may have been born and raised Catholic, but I am more Protestant than even Protestants are. On one side of my family I am descended from the Waldenses, the first Protestants around 1179 AD, from Lyons , France. They Influenced Wycliff, Huss, and Luther.
Some sayings on the temple:
Mar 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.
Mat 26:61 And said, This [fellow] said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
Compare with John:
Jhn 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Jhn 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? (Notice the comment in John)
In AD 70 the Temple was destroyed.
Luk 21:6 [As for] these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
So was Jesus speaking as Luke says about events in AD 70, or was he speaking about his death and resurrection after 3 days, or both?
Jesus rising(appearing) to his disciples 3 days later was that the cause for people thinking he referred to his body and not the Jewish temple?
The Christian Yahwist
The Man of Yahweh
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 10, 2004.
I think there is always a double-conotation in the Scriptures.I believe that Jesus' reference of the actual temple--in terms of His death and resurrection is *revelation* that we can only appreciate after the fact.
-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 10, 2004.
Precisely, Faith.This in when you go from faith 101, Apologetics 101 into
the upper division courses 301, 401, 501,....
Confront scripture by history, culture, other possibilities, borrowing of ideas, personal interpretations, language, ....
This coming from a believer, not an agnostic, Atheist,...
By the way,. I took some of these course for a minor in college.
The Christian Yahwist
The Man of Yahweh
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 10, 2004.
But Elpidio..,What exactly is it that you are a believer of?
I don't see that you believe in God's Word very much--therefore you cannot possibly believe in the same God that these Scriptures reveal.
You never answered me when I asked exactly how do you know that you are not being deceived. What do you test these spirits who visit you-- with?
-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 10, 2004.
I believe in God Yahweh, the God of the Jews and Jesus.Difference is that I do question received revelation. Just like you are doing with me. If what I say sometimes offends you are puzzels you, imagine how I feel when I have to dig into an scripture to rescue God's true word.
I know how God Yahweh communicates to people. Thus, I can see better what is commentary from the true word of God Yahweh.
As to your question, How do I know the Spirit is true? -The message came accompanied by a prophecy. It took 3 years to be fulfilled.
On July 23 it is going to be 4 years since I received the first. Jesus was part of the same message. He was the one who gave me the second prophecy.
My wife was a witness to the second time in October 2000. She saw my whole body shining. (I had explained to her how my body looked when I was speaking to God Yahweh). After the light disappeared she woke me up.
She also received a revelation from him on December 1, 2003.
I have been hearing voices telling what would happen since October 1986. Also, I have trance-like prophecies (these are rare-only when I tell someone he/she is in danger of dying).
The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 11, 2004.
Oh Elpidio--so you are claiming personal revelation that has world- wide consequences?Why would something this important be given only to you?
Everything needed unto salvation is already given. The proof and fulfillment of prophecy is Jesus Christ and the whole world can see this....
If what you are hearing does not line up with Scripture--it is from a deceiving Spirit.
You need to use Scripture as your measuring rod.
The prophets from the Old Testament gave prophecy that the whole of man-kind could confirm was fulfilled.
-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 11, 2004.
The people of the Old Testament never gave dates, faith.I have.
Examples: -Moses said in Deuteronmy Yahweh was going to send a prophet kike him? Was that prophet Samuel?, Elijah? Jeremiah? John The Baptist? Jesus?
- Isaiah spoke of a child called Immanuel which would be at least 3 years when the King of Israel and Syria would trouble Judah no more. (Isaiah Ch. 7). Yet Matthew thinks it refers to Jesus.
-Isaiah calls Yahweh's elected Koresh (Cyrus). He will save the people. Koresh (Cyrus) was a King from Persia who liberated the Jews from Babylon in 539 BC. His name in Greek appears as Kyrios, which is the word for Lord in Jesus days. So when is Isaiah referring to Cyrus and when to jesus chs. 40-61?
-Yeshua(Jeshua) the High priest is called an anointed one(meshiach in Hebrew, Christos in Greek)by Zechariah the Prophet. Was Zechariah referring to Jeshua(Yeshua) the Priest or Jesus (Yeshua) the son of Joseph when speakinmg in Chps 9-13? .....
The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 14, 2004.
I wasn't the first to receive messages.My mother was: Jesus 1985,Clinto and Monica Lewinsky (1994), The Pope's sickness (1994),9/11 and Osama Bin Laden (2001), The destruction of the Catholic Church (2002).
My wife: Jesus (1999, 2000, 2002,2003), Afganistan (1999), 9/11 (2000) Yahweh (2003), plus 3 of my future children(They are born already).
My brother: Hell of Darkness, Purgatory (expiation of sins), Heaven (1994).
Me, main ones: 1986 Baseball World series, 1988 World series, Panama invasion (1989),OJ Simpson (1995), Mexican Elections (1994, 2000), Bush (2000,2001,2003,2004)Yahweh (2000: twice), Jesus (2000), Pope and his Church (1991,2000,2001,2002),Afghanistan (2001)... plus 2 of my children. This just to abbreviate a little, faith. Some already in the internet:
Has anyone had a dreeam about the Pope Lately
I never hide, faith.
By the way, the Man of Yahweh was the title given to me by Prince's servant in a dream in 2001. I still have not made that dream a reality. Prince is right now a Jehovah's witness.
Yahwists don't like to be called Christians. Christians don't think Yahwists are Christians.
I AM. That is why I am the Christian Yahwist, the only true one.
The Christian Yahwist
The Man of Yahweh.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 14, 2004.
I don't know what all this is suppose to prove. Even Satan knew that the WTC would be attacked.How can you know the difference between a true spirit from God and a deceiving one from the devil.
Have any of your predictions made a difference to the world--has God been glorified by you?
There are plenty of psychics in the world--but God warns against them...especially if the message is not in accord with His written revelation to us.
-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 14, 2004.
Well, faith, Yahweh warns of danger coming my way. Sometimes, I am not allowed to skip it. Maybe he wants me to endure the pain, so I can come out a better person.Has God yahweh been glorified?
Well, good question.
What if Clinton had listend to the letter in 1995 I sent telling him his bodyguards would betray him. Would he still be censured (closed to being indicted) by Congress in 1998?
What if he had not given up on the Palestinians and Israeli Jews when I wrote to him in 2000 and 2001? What about 9/11?
What about Bush when I e-mailed him telling him to allow Iraqis to rule themselves after May 2003,instead he listened to Cheney. would his popularity still be sky-high, or low in the 40s like it is right now?
What about the Pope in in 1997, 2000 ,and 2002 about not praying to Mary, the saints, and not make Juan Diego a Saint (he never existed) as a person to whom Mary appeared in 1531 AD. He still went ahead. I was told about it in July 2002. Next time I know, I am told his Church would be no more, this at the end of July 2002. Was it for disobeying Yahweh or ????
Faith, back then I still thought of myself as being catholic. I wasn't thinking of creating a new Church. I wanted to work within an existing Church.
So in response to your question how can I tell the difference between evil and good?
Since 1986-2004 (almost 18 years), I have not been asked to do something that goes against God Yahweh.
The first time I was asked to go public was on July 23, 2000. Before that, only the people involved knew of me. I wasn't looking for fame or anything like that in matters of religion.
I was more into politics until 1999.
And something else: I have not been given power yet to cure people from their physical illnesses. Instead I can only rely on my scriptural knowledge. Sometimes in dreams I see the past (biblical). This way I can compare. My wife also sees the past. She is the one who usually talks to Jesus, like my mom.
The Christian Yahwist
The Man of Yahweh
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 14, 2004.
Unless what you receive edifies God and does not contradict what He has revealed--I suppose your personal experience cannot hurt.However--God's Biblical revelation that He has left to us is complete. There is nothing that God needs to add to His revelation about salvation or ultimate peace.
Anything that would alter or add to God's Word is a serious deception and I think your personal stuff should remain just that--personal.
But in my opinion--based on what I have read of your biblical understanding--you are not in harmony with the Scriptures--but are attempting to change the truth to fit what these spirits are telling you.
For example--If I am not mistaken., you do not believe that Jesus is God. That would be my biggest warning flag--if I were you.
-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 15, 2004.
You will know about whether Jesus is God when I answer David's 100 questions.But scripture says he, Jesus, is not God. Examples: Isaiah 7:14 is about King Hezekiah, not Jesus.See the entire context. The prophecy was for King Ahaz. The Child Immanuel (God with us doesn't mean that God was Jesus)was going to be less than 5 years before those things came to pass. These happaned around 723-734 BC.
In the Beginning was the word , John 1:1(Hebrew debar) means God always says something, and then things happen. God Yahweh said: let there be light....and there was light: Gen 1.
Jesus about himself: Only the father knows the hour, not Jesus, the Son of Man:
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God. Jesus came in the flesh from King David. That is , from a sexual union between Mary and Joseph, not an incarnation, as Catholics believe, that is, the spirit took on flesh.
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh
Taken from the Blue Bible.
If Jesus himself doesn't consider himself God, Faith, , then he is not.
The Christian Yahwist
The Man of Yahweh
PS: This means Protestants are no different than Catholics who worship saints and Mary (Though Catholics claim the venerate them): they worship Jesus, the savior, not Yahweh, the creator.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 15, 2004.
Who did Jesus claim to be according to Scripture Elpidio?John the Baptist Prepared the way of Jehovah
John the Baptist explained why he was preparing the way for Jesus Christ by quoting the words of Isaiah, "Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God" (Isaiah 40:3).
Matthew shows how John fulfilled this prophecy by preparing the way of Jesus Christ (3:3, 11-17).
The book of Mark begins with the announcement that God was sending John the Baptist to prepare the way of Jesus Christ saying, "Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight" (Mark 1:1-3).
Luke's Gospel says that at John the Baptist's birth, his father had prophesied that John would make Jehovah's ways ready: "And thou child, shalt be called the prophet of the highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways" (Luke 1:76).
In the first chapter of John's Gospel, I find that when the people asked John, "who are you?" he answered, "I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, make straight the ways of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias" (John 1:23. See also Isaiah 40:3).
So let's see who this is talking about by picking up the narrative three verses ahead...
"John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not. He it is, who coming after me is prefered before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose...The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the lamb of God, which taketh away the sins of the world...I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water" (John 1:26-27, 29, 31).
For whom was John preparing the way? For Jehovah. That is why John was not worthy to untie his sandal, but John also called him "Jesus" and "the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world," and said that the reason he had come was to make him manifest to Israel. Just four verses ahead, John again identifies the Lamb of God whose way he is making straight:
"Again the next day John was standing with two of his disciples, and as he looked at Jesus walking he said: 'See, the Lamb of God!" (John 1:35).
What I am getting at is that God the Son existed with the Father before John was born. Then he came and was born here on earth so that we might know God. I think that that is why He was called Immanual "God with us" (Matt. 1:23). And this is why John prepared the way for Jesus when he prepared the way for Jehovah. I also looked at Philippians 2:5-8, and see only harmony.
There is only One Savior: Jehovah "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior" (Isaiah 43:11).
But this One Savior is also called Jesus:
"For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord" (Luke 2:11).
Speaking of Christ, Acts 4:12 says:
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved". Here in Titus 2:13-14, we see an undeniable recognition again of just who Jesus is:
"...while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good".
"But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and forever! Amen" (2 Peter 3:18).
If Jehovah is the One and Only God and Savior--how do you rationalize giving this authority to Christ? God said he would not give his glory to another. In my mind, I can see only one logical conclusion. Jesus and Jehovah are one and the same. I think there are many examples of this in both the Old and New Testaments.
I know that you will argue that Jesus was human and spoke of Jehovah as Father. But before He took on the human nature, He already had the divine nature. "...and the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" (John 1:14) when He, "made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Philippians 2:7). He already had the divine nature. He humbled himself to take on a human nature as well when He was born of the virgin and called "God with us".
This is how, in my opinion, He was able to be the ransom for our sins. He had to be fully human, yet perfect in order to satisfy God's penalty. We know that Scripture tells us that there is no one who is perfect, not one. Only God is perfect and only God is good--according to Scripture. There is no mere human being who could satisfy God's Holy requirements.
The Bible does "not" say that there is none that is good , no not one..except the human Jesus. The Bible clearly states that only God is good and perfect. Jesus is God's plan for us--His gift to us. I do not think it would be fair for God to create a perfect human for the mere purpose of dying on the cross for our sin. Only God could accomplish fairly, what He demanded, In my opinion.
********************************************* As True God, Jesus claims his Divinity John 8:58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" ****************************************************
John 10:24-30 The Jews gathered around him saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one." Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many miracles from the Father. For which one of these do you stone me?" "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." *********************************************************** John 14:6- Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, "Show us the Father?"
-- ("faith01@myway.com), June 15, 2004.
Nothing is at it seems, faith.I sometimes wonder if you read the same Bible as me!!!
Of whom do we hear the voice from Heaven as the Spirit has descended on Jesus? This to prove the point the Son , the Holy Spirit , and the Father are not the same: Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Mar 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
Mar 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
Mar 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, [saying], Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mar 1:12 And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness.
Even Peter confesses Jesus is not God Yahweh in Acts 3; Act 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let [him] go.
Act 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
Act 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
God Yahweh raised Jesus.
Peter was a Jew, faith, that's something you have to admit faith. Not just you, but all Protestants. As a Jew, if Peter had said to his people Jesus was God, they could have killed him for that.
The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 15, 2004.
"As a Jew, if Peter had said to his people Jesus was God, they could have killed him for that." - ElpidioWell now, isn't that why they killed Jesus? For claiming he was God? Which is it Elpidio? Jesus did in fact get crucified, and he did in fact claim to be God. Whether you like it or not..
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), June 15, 2004.
I was preconceived in God's mind , too, faith. See this thread.Dreams-a window into the future and into the past
In February 1962, Jeane Dixon who predicted Gandhi's assassination, Kennedy's assassination, and Reagan becoming President, also had a dream that morning about a man who was coming to show God's true religion to the world.
I was born in 1962, faith. Was Jeanne Dixon talking about me?
After all, I fit all of her descriptions about me. My dreams began in the mid 1980s.
From the Pope to the President they began to know about me.
In 2002 the whole world has known about me.
So am I that man? Yes.
There are many who claim miracles like Benny Hinn, Poppoff, ...others who are famous preachers like Billy Graham, Charles Stanley, Schuler, Price, Dr. Gene Scott,...Some own media empires like Paul Crouch and TBN,...More holy than me like mother Theresa,...
Yet, there is only one man of Yahweh, faith: Elpidio Gonzalez.
I don't do miracles, yet neither did John the Baptist, Samuel, Abraham, Jacob,Jeremiah, Isaiah, Zechariah...even though they talked to God, or God chose them for a purpose.
Elijah, Elishah, Moses, and Jesus did miracles. They resurrected dead people, they increased bread, ...
Some were bad speakers like me, so was Moses,...
If I was predestined for a reason, then, that doesn't mean I am God Yahweh, because I am not.
If Jesus was predestined for a reason dealing also with salvation, that doesn't make him God Yahweh either, faith.
YOU CANNOT KILL GOD YAHWEH, FAITH!!!
YAHWEH CANNOT DIE!!!
One day I will die, like everyone else.
My mission is to get people back into the true worship of God Yahweh, through his son Jesus Christ.
I have not been given any special powers to do so.
In that respect I resemble Samuel, Isaiah, and Jeremiah.
The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 15, 2004.
They didn't kill Jesus for claiming to be God Yahweh, David.They asked for his death for claiming to be God's son!!!
Are you looking at the same Bible as me, David? (I am using the Blue Bible)
First, David, Jesus goes to pray to God Yahweh at the Garden of Getsemane. Why pray to God if you are God yahweh? Because Jesus wasn't.
Mar 14:32 And they came to a place which was named Gethsemane: and he saith to his disciples, Sit ye here, while I shall pray.
Mar 14:33 And he taketh with him Peter and James and John, and began to be sore amazed, and to be very heavy;
Mar 14:34 And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.
Mar 14:35 And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.
Mar 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things [are] possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
.....then Jesus is arrested, and taken to the High priest of the Jews. Does Jesus ever claim before them he was God Yahweh? No he didn't!!!
He claimed he was the Christ, the Son of Man (as found in Ezekiel and Daniel)
Mar 14:61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
Mar 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mar 14:63 Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
Mar 14:64 Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.
That is why, Yahweh showed me the Bibles of the Protestants on July 23, 2000. They use them, but they don't see him there!!!
So Protestants are no better than Catholics, they don't worship the true God, Yahweh!!!
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 15, 2004.
Elpidio,I am using the best bible there is out there. The AV1611.
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), June 15, 2004.
Elpidio,Jesus has two natures. He is fully God and fully man.
Jesus is one person
GOD
He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9)
He is prayed to (Acts 7:59; 1 Cor. 1:1-2)
He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8)
He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1)
He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15)
He knew all things (John 21:17)
He gives eternal life (John 20:28)
The fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9)MAN
He worshiped the Father (John 17)
He prayed to the Father (John 17:1)
He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5).
He was called Son of Man (John 9:35-37)
He was tempted (Matt. 4:1)
He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52)
He died (Rom. 5:8)
He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39)Colossians 2 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
You are right that we cannot kill Jehovah. But it was the human nature of Jesus that was killed on the cross.
Your straw man arguments have been refuted all over the internet Elpidio. You can do a simple search for answers if you'd like.
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), June 15, 2004.
Even the King James says Jesus prayed to the Father, David!!So how could Jesus be the Father? Well, he isn't!!!
The same type of veil Jews had when Jesus came, is the same veil Protestants, Orthodox, Pentecostals, and Orthodox have in seen the true God: Yahweh.
It is easier to call someone not a Christian than to see the truth.
For 21 years I have been telling people the truth about our God Yahweh and his son Jesus Christ.
But I am patient.I began to openly speak out to the World in 2002. There are 6 Christian Yahwists now plus 4 from my family, who even though still go to the Catholic Church, now believe Jesus is Yahweh's Son, but not Yahweh himself!!!
One day you will also see the truth, David, though it mught take you 20 years.
The Christian Yahwist
The Man of Yahweh.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 15, 2004.
Most of the stuff you quoted are commentary.Did Jesus say that about himself? Only John says it, but those sayings are not paralled any other place.
Thus, he didn' say them.
The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 15, 2004.
Elipido,Repeating your position over and over and over again still doesn't prove it. Kevin uses this same tactic too.
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), June 15, 2004.
Elpidio, Please, click this link. http://www.peteweb.com/proschat/AOMIN CHAT Just don't be disrespectful.
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), June 15, 2004.
And press "Connect now". You will be taken to the Chat room where other more qualified people can answer your questions.
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), June 15, 2004.
Elpidio..,Who raised Jesus from the dead?
The Father (Romans 6:4)? The Son (John 2:19-21; 10:17,18)? The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:11)? Or God (Acts 3:26; 1 Thess. 1:1,5; 4:2,8; 2 Thess. 3:5; 1 John 3:23,24)?
Can you begin to *see* the revelation?
"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body. When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the Scripture, and the word which Jesus had said " (John 2:19-22).
-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 15, 2004.
I have answwered already the question about the temple already, faith. Jesus originally discussed the destuction of the Jewish temple.After Jesus death, then the disciples interpreted this as referring to his body.See the comment in the quotation.
But Jesus prayed to God Yahweh, even though you claim Jesus is Yahweh, because he was afraid he had failed in his mision.
Only Yahweh can raise the dead, faith, through his Holy Spirit.
The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 16, 2004.
I agree that only God can raise jesus from the dead.That is why I recognize the revelation that Jesus is God., since he raised himself from the dead.
Jesus said:
"I lay down My life--only to take it up again...I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again" (John 10:17-18)
Who does the Scripture reveal is the Alpha and Omega--the First and Last.,the Begining from the End?
God or Jesus?
-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 16, 2004.
Faith, the creator is Yahweh. He is the true Alpha and Omega.Questions before you start: a) Who is sitting on the throne? b) Of whom is descended the lamb? c) From whom did the lamb take the seals? d)In 5:10 who is the God they are talking about? From Blue Bible: King James Version (KJV) Revelation - Chapter 5
Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
.....
Rev 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Rev 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four [and] twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
So you see faith, there is more than meets the eye....
The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 16, 2004.
Like I said before, faith, make sure there is no other scripture which disproves what you believe in.
Now you see why Yahweh sent me? To let people know he exists!!! But I was told it was going to be hard.
That July 23, 2000, in a dream in 4 parts, in the first part, I saw a little rock trying to move a mountain. It couldn't. After speaking to Yahwweh and Jesus in the second and third parts of the same dream, then the mountain and the little rock came back again in the 4th part. This time, the little rock moved the mountain.
So I asked first for the meaning of this, before I got my answer, I said: "Ya se, la fe mueve montaņas" (I know, faith moves mountains).
Then the dream was over.
The Christian Yahwist
The Man of Yahweh
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 16, 2004.
So then..,Elpidio.,You agree that the Alpha and Omega is God?
like here?:
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." Rev 1:8
And here?:
He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son." Rev 21:5-7
And here?:
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." Rev 22:13
God is the Alpha and Omega., the First and Last.., the Begining and End!
Praise God, Amen
-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 16, 2004.
So what's your answer to my post above here, Elpidio??Yes?
Yes--that these verses in Revelation are referencing God?
-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 16, 2004.
Faith, the creator is Yahweh. He is the true Alpha and Omega. "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." Rev 1:8Yahweh is translated here in Greek as ho en(was),ho on (is), ho esontai (will be).
Originally, in the story in Revelation, faith, who was seated in the throne?
Of course Yahweh. The lamb, Jesus was in the middle, thus, Who could have said this originally? Of course Yahweh!!!
The problem is that in Septuagint Greek there is a tendency by some translators to translate Yahweh as Kyrios (Lord). This then confuses the mar (maran) of Aramaic which is used for Jesus. Remember the word Maranatha? Come Lord!!!
So, it is possible for later copyists to confuse Jesus with Yahweh.
He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End
There is more hidden stuff in the translations, faith. That is why I was recommending Hebrew and Greek to David.
The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 17, 2004.
So then you agree that the Alpha and Omega the First and Last the Begining from the End are all terms refering to God, right?And here?:
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. (Rev. 1:17,18)
-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 17, 2004.
That's the problem with interpolations, faith. Watch out for them. I have copies to several different readings in the gospels and other books in Greek.Here is one: take out I am the First and the Last.
What's left?
The Christian Yahwist
PS: And that's another story. This thread is so long now. We need to start another.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 17, 2004.
This is what is understood as revelation--Elpidio.You can't just remove verses that you don't like or decide that someone stuck it in there after-the-fact because it disproves your theory--
If you believe that--then why believe any of the Scriptures at all?
Revelation 1:17-18 is clearly revealing that God and Jesus are one and the same. God never died., but Jesus did--and since God is the Alpha and Omega, the First and Last--the Begining from the End--we have revelation.....
Thank you God...for those who have ears--let him hear.
-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 17, 2004.
I guess I'll have to wait for many weeks before Elpidio will come back to this?He could have replied before his vacation--but then, how do you argue with the Word of God?
Eventually you must leave for vaction or something ...Lol.
-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 20, 2004.