To Our Moderator

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Ask Jesus : One Thread

I did tell Ian to stop. I guess that you can't read french.

So, you are blaming us for Tom's actions? That's more reason to leave the forum don't you think? Anything that I post in the forum will be attacked because of its Catholic implications or nature. So, ultimately, it will always be our fault for these attacks. Our presence is the only reason needed by these attackers.

So, we have choices: 1)sit and take it while the rest are free to post,2) try to bring resolution by our best means possible, 3) or just leave. Ian and I tried . I resorted to removing my user name and email address. Either way, Tom did win. But, what about the next Tom that decides to terrorize our threads with his hate?

I did notice that the Catholic Forum can rememdy these attacks with the wink of an eye. Why can they repair with ease?

rod.......

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 16, 2004

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), April 19, 2004

Answers

"mouton"

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 16, 2004.


You have deleted this thread again, David. http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl? msg_id=00Bwpg All you had to do is get rid of the "script" commands and FTP the file as edited. But, this is the second time that you have deleted Laurent and Me from this forum. What is up?

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 16, 2004.


Are you and Tom working in tandem against me??

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 16, 2004.


rod,

No one wants you or Ian to leave. I am here to assist David in his absence. From now on--ignore people like Tom. Simply ignore him. His posts will disappear. I can't be here 24/7--but assaulting posts like his will not remain.

-- (assistant@moderator.com), April 16, 2004.



Well, whoever you are, the threads need to be filtered out without removing the righteous posts. We don't chop a person's head just because it contains a tumor.

BTW, when did David get an assistant? All of this is very spooky.

Can I be an assistant moderator, too? Now, that would be even spookier.

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 16, 2004.


24/7 has nothing to do with removing the entire threads. It has to do with neat surgical removals, not butcher shop tactics.

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 16, 2004.


"From now on--ignore people like Tom. "

What? It seems that once again the point is being missed. Tom and his kind don't need much to stir things up. Remember that it was my Catholic posts that brought his wrath upon me and this forum. If I am to ignore the Toms of this world, I'm gonna have to stop posting my beliefs altogether. It isn't as easy as some believe--"ignore".

Now, let's play fair and place the blame on the real culpables-- Tom. Also, why not give us the keys to censor the Toms. There are people in this forum who are honest and righteous enough to censor those freaks on an ongoing bases. Let's call it a virtual "24/7" censoring group of regular posters: Ian, Jim, Elpidio, Faith, Kevin,and rod. Unless, we aren't trusted with the keys, that is.

No, instead, let's blame rod and Ian for causing problems. Let's not blame the moderator's who were slow to react. Sounds flaky...

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 16, 2004.


I didn't mean to forget you, Luke. I also didn't mean "bases"; I meant "basis".

................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 16, 2004.


Ah!! don't worry assistant moderator. I'll find the old thread, edit it, and repost it. I think I still have it in my home computer. I can do the moderator duties without the keys. Let's call it "hot- wiring".

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 16, 2004.


rod,

I sent you an email

-- (assistant@moderator.com), April 16, 2004.


my 2 cents:

7om was a rotten egg right from the start. he ought to have been banned right from the start. Rod put up with such a load of really very nasty bull, right from the start, with such little support from anyone else here.

if that sad s.o.b. had started on D.O, or Faith, or Kevin, etc etc, i would have felt as annoyed -- and as compelled to give them some support. so would Rod - i know that.

apart from Faith, i saw little support for Rod, the victim of a freak that could easily have picked upon someone else.

i don't mean to judge anyone. however, i think (hope) that my account is factual.

we should thank Rod for weedling this rat out before he went too far. Rod did this in such a distinguished manner.

i also thank Faith for speaking up. she didn't have to.

this 7om idiot should never have gotten so far.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), April 16, 2004.


I will offer some ways of looking at things from a non-Catholic's point of view:

View #1: Catholics don't need our help.

View #2: Catholics can defend themselves without our help.

View #3: Gosh? If I help, will that mean I condone their Catholic beliefs?

View #4: It's their battle, not mine.

View #5: It's not that big of a deal.

View #6: I'll only make things worse.

I'm sure we could add more reasons, but perhaps we should move to action according to our Christian upbringing? Help our neighbors and love our enemies. It can be tough sometimes. BTW, 7om is at it again in the Catholic Forum.

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 16, 2004.


indeed Rod. very well said.

and thanks again Faith.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), April 16, 2004.


You are welcome.

I see us as a family.

It's like in real life--you'll argue with your siblings every day, but dare an outsider to come in and say anything about a brother or sister., and that's it!

Put up those dukes.........

-- (faith01@myway.com), April 16, 2004.


Exactly!

David has this little joke about me along the saying,"Why can't we all get along". I'm also thought of as camping out with ecumenicalism. It may seem that way, but it is not so. Ecumenism, for me, is a form of research and study of one's own faith. It flushes the truth from its hidden places. It also causes the truth to make even brighter light.

I better stop now before we all start singing and roasting marshmellows.

.....

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 16, 2004.


I'm keeping it private, I just saw "Tom" is at it again in the Catholic forum.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com ), April 16, 2004.


rod,

Give me a break! I knew you had it saved, and I have it saved, that was the fastest way to get rid of the problem, until i found a better way (which is why you still see most threads intact)

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com ), April 16, 2004.


The Angels are watching over you, David. Boy! am I glad. Thanks, Jim.

................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 16, 2004.


jim?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com ), April 16, 2004.


One day the lamb and the lion shall sit side by side. I'll let you know prior to that time or when we bump into each other at a church revival or retreat. Yes, I meant Jim.

BTW, be on the lookout for Big Sky performing at the AOG concert coming to Mission, soon. The lead guitarist is one of my friends since way back when. Big Sky will be performing with this female singer (I forget her name). If my guitar playing friend says anything about me, its not true don't believe a word. Unless, it's good stuff, then he is lying, go ahead and believe every word. I mentioned your name.

........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 16, 2004.


What AOG church?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com ), April 16, 2004.


All I know is that there will be an Assemblies of God concert this weekend or next. I'm not clear on the date. A Christian singer is coming down to the Valley for a few concerts. Her band couldn't make it, so they asked Big Sky for help. I should have asked for more details.

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 16, 2004.


Take this time , David to restore more of the threads that were attacked in hte past.

The ones at the uncategorized.

That way I know which were saved which were not.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), April 16, 2004.


Rod,

I am not surprised that for a second time, you have been the catalyst that caused this forum to be moved so that one needs a password in order to get into the forum.

Have you not read in Matthew 7:12, "Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them"???

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), April 17, 2004.


It seems so clear to me that Tom and Tom alone was the cause of the problems here. He's also now creating havoc at the Catholic forum. If its important to blame someone, why not the perpetrator?

-- JimFurst (furst@flash.net), April 17, 2004.


I believe Jeanie and Baleel were the cause of the problem the first time. They hated just about everybody, not just Catholics. They gave David a fit. Baleel actually threatened to create cyber chaos.

-- JimFurst (furst@flash.net), April 17, 2004.


You are right Jim..,

Tom alone was the problem. He came here yanking chains and just looking for a reason to do what he did.

Kevin--I don't believe you were around these parts these last few days, and Tom's posts have been deleted. Do you really think you should be passing judgement?

-- (faith01@myway.com), April 17, 2004.


Faith,

You wrote, "Kevin--I don't believe you were around these parts these last few days, and Tom's posts have been deleted."

Do you make this statement because I have not posted in the last couple of days??? I know what Tom wrote, and there is NO excuse for what he did in this forum. However, that does NOT excuse those who added fuel to the fire.

You wrote, "Do you really think you should be passing judgement?"

Is there something wrong with what I wrote??? If there is an error in what I posted to Rod, please point this out to me and I will be the first to correct it.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), April 17, 2004.


Those of you without sin may cast the first stone, kind of deal here.

Kevin, you may judge me as you see fit. You may say what you please about me. I am willing to take whatever you dish out. If I defend myself from you, you will only acuse me of "adding fire" to your actions. It will be my fault for your fury towards me. You may as well call me a "hostage". Or better yet, an "hostia" for your judgement.

Or better yet, a "scapegoat". That's ok, Kevin. I'm Catholic and I should be used to the persecutions by now.......next?

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 17, 2004.


Tom is still at it at the Catholic forum, I give him no more than a week to get tired and stop. In the future, I'm asking again, DO NOT RESPOND to people like TOM/JEANIE. Any replies towards people like them, will be deleted including the whole thread.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com ), April 17, 2004.


Matthew 7:12 ??

I never once defiled Tom's character the way he did me. Even with his pornographic discriptions toward me, I maintained a respectable manner. Kevin, you never came to my rescue, I'm glad that I was not drowning in the middle of the ocean. I would have saved Tom, even as he cursed the day I was born. Why? Well, Matthew 7:12, that's why. Many here told me to avoid Tom, ok I should have obeyed. But, I felt that there may have been a chance to turn Tom around, but Tom is one of those that takes more to awaken. I have dealt with those types before: Wiccans, Satanists, and Atheists. Call me "naive" or call me "stupid" or tell me to go jump in the lake. Sure, if it means pulling someone out of the dark....sure.

................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 17, 2004.


David! When graffiti is plattered on a wall we don't go and destroy the entire building. You still have not acknowledge the fact that it was my Catholic flavor that triggered Tom to post in this forum. Therefore, you are saying not to post Catholic doctrine or theology because it will cause assaults on this forum. That is rather ridiculous. Tom hates people and will find any reason to do his evil deeds. Oh, ok, let's get rid of this forum so as not to disturb Tom. That's crazy!

...

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 17, 2004.


I don't see anyone in the Catholic Forum engaging with Tom. He has done his deed without provocation. Why can't I make that clear to you????

.................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 17, 2004.


"Therefore, you are saying not to post Catholic doctrine or theology because it will cause assaults on this forum" - rod

This is a lie, and you know it. Stop putting words into my mouth. All I asked is for people NOT to GIVE ANY TYPE of respond to people like Tom/Jeanie.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com ), April 17, 2004.


Sure it is a lie, if one believes it. But, I'm not making lies; I'm making a point to which you have not truly entertained until I make a big noise. You still blame me for the mess here, which puts you and Kevin in the same bench. You guys don't want to see what is really happening here.

..................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 17, 2004.


If you open up this forum, Tom will come in here and take aim on me again. Not because of my cute bowtie. He hates my nature and my Catholic views. If I were not here, his lunacy would take on a different character. Tom complimented you, David, for your moderator talents. He also put words in your mouth. You didn't exactly censor him until things got way out of hand. The first infraction should have been answered with a strong volly.

I left the forum in order to subdue Tom's little game. I played his little game by leaving.

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 17, 2004.


No rod,

I just know when to stop. And I emailed you too, because I DID NOT want people getting Tom angry and him messing up the forum. The only way of avoiding him doing that was for people to stop provoking him.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com ), April 17, 2004.


I think its quite a bit easier in "hindsight" to recognise who should be avoided or ignored. Its not so easy when it first happens. Its human nature to respond when someone attacks you on a personal level, to try to find out whats at the bottom of it. By that time, the wacko could become an even bigger nut, or you might be able to uncover a misunderstanding that could be cleared up. You almost don't know till its too late. These emotionally disturbed types like Tom are moving about randomly so you don't know when you'll run into one, who's going to be a target, or how you would respond if it was to happen to you.

-- JimFurst (furst@flash.net), April 17, 2004.


Nope. Evidence?? Look at the Catholic Forum. Who knows how many posts have been cleaned up by the moderators? It is probably a cat and mouse game over there. Can anybody put a stop to Tom? The kid is slithery. All I needed from him to bring his game to an end was his IP address. That together with a few emails would have stopped Tom in his tracks. The world sure is a goofy one.

I don't recall having too many engagements with the wild couple J and hubby after they were banned? Seems like we have the feeling they came back for revenge.

I suppose that the next time I get targetted, I'll just leave the forum. Fact: Whatever I post will be seen as an aggressive move for the mad bomber. Because that's what happened this time.

..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 17, 2004.


My post after yours, Jim, was meant for David. Sorry, for the confusion, if any.

.......................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 17, 2004.


rod,

Does one have to be "without sin" in order to cast the first stone???

For one who adamantly states that he is NOT Catholic, you sure do state that you ARE a Catholic when it APPEARS that you are being "persecuted" right rod???

Either you ARE Catholic, or you are NOT Catholic which one is it???

Are you Catholic ONLY when you are being "persecuted"???

If you feel that you are being "persecuted", then welcome to the club.

Scapegoat??? Hardly... You CANNOT deny that you in fact added fuel to the fire by your continued posts to Tom now can you rod???

You wrote, "I never once defiled Tom's character the way he did me."

I never said that you did now did I rod???

It does NOT matter whether or not you maintained a "respectable manner" you were keeping him going down the road that eventually led to his disruption of this forum.

You wrote, "Kevin, you never came to my rescue, I'm glad that I was not drowning in the middle of the ocean."

Even if I said something to you, would it have mattered??? I think not...

Elpidio made an attempt when he said, "Don't let Tom make you bitter.", but you did NOT listen you did you rod???

No, you came back and "taunted" Tom in your very NEXT post when you began with, "Tommie??" in response to his post that ridiculed your name.

Instead of attempting to defuse the situation, you made it WORSE. Words such as, "Please feel free to post something a little less abrasive, Tommie." ONLY add fuel to the fire.

You wrote, "I would have saved Tom, even as he cursed the day I was born. Why? Well, Matthew 7:12, that's why."

If you would have saved Tom, you most certainly did NOT prove this by your posts to him now did you???

You wrote, "Many here told me to avoid Tom, ok I should have obeyed. But, I felt that there may have been a chance to turn Tom around, but Tom is one of those that takes more to awaken."

If there was a chance to "turn Tom around" as you state, I didn't see much of that in your posts to him???

You wrote, "I have dealt with those types before: Wiccans, Satanists, and Atheists. Call me "naive" or call me "stupid" or tell me to go jump in the lake. Sure, if it means pulling someone out of the dark....sure."

If you dealt with them the way you did Tom, it is no wonder that more people don't become Catholic.

One more thing, if you think that the Catholics have the TRUTH, you are sadly MISTAKEN.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), April 17, 2004.


Thanks, Kevin.

It has been a struggle for me, but this has become more obvious to me as a result of these discussions and my own study.

I can now say without a doubt in my mind that I am a CATHOLIC.

I can thank many here in this forum. It is also very obvious that I cannot allow another human being to dish out hostility to another human being. If I fuel that hatred, than I shall do what is best.

David do the honors, please. Just ban me and let's be done with it once and for all. You've got my email address so do it. That way, the temptation to return shall not exist. Emerald, if you are seeing this one day, I understand why you asked for your banning.

Let's see if the Catholic Forum can contain me there..

May the Light shine brightly upon everyone.

rod.........................................................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 17, 2004.


rod,

I do not believe that an honest reading of the scriptures lead you to become Catholic. What was it then? Certainly cannot be church history. It's this "persecution" thing isn't it? And no, I will not ban you. Because that will add on to your "persecution".

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), April 19, 2004.


"I do not believe that an honest reading of the scriptures lead you to become Catholic"

Amen to that statement!!

An honest reading of the scriptures will also not lead someone to believe that they are saved by "faith only"!!!

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), April 17, 2004.


"An honest reading of the scriptures will also not lead someone to believe that they are saved by "faith only"!!!" -kevin walker

An honest reading of the bible will lead one to realize that salvation is of the Lord.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com ), April 17, 2004.


"It is also very obvious that I cannot allow another human being to dish out hostility to another human being"

It is one thing to make a statement such as this, but another to back it up. In making this statement rod, I would advise you NOT go to the Catholic forum for they heap all kinds of insults and "dish out hostility" on those who do not agree with their doctrines.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), April 17, 2004.


An honest reading of the bible will lead one to realize that salvation is of the Lord. David Ortiz

An honest reading of the bible will lead one to realize that they must DO something in order to be saved of the Lord for God says in Hebrews 5:8-9, "though He was a Son, yet He learned OBEDIENCE by the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to ALL WHO OBEY HIM," (Hebrews 5:8-9).

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), April 17, 2004.


Kevin, (and Luke it's your around)

What's your view on the trinity? You can post an answer on this thread

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com ), April 17, 2004.


i simply cannot believe this attitude. it's not 7om's fault that he turned the air blue round here, its anyone who confronted him and told him to get lost.

we know where appeasement gets us. the world allowed the Nazis to build a huge army and navy, to re-occupy the rhineland in breach of the Treaty of Versailles, we stood by as the sudetenland fall into Nazi hands.

on each of those occasions, the world had a right to censure and attack Germany. has they done so, who knows how differently the world might have been today. instead they stod back.

it took Churchill, the alcoholic maverisk and warmonger to finally make a stand. some say his motives were ultimately questionable but he did the RIGHT thing.

7om was a bad egg right from the start. the air was destined to turn blue, the timing was merely accelerated. this holier-than-thou appeasement attitude is just sanctimonious tripe.

had Kevin, a protestant voice of good standing here, stood up and told 7om to stop, i have a feeling that he might have listened. had this been backed up by the other protestants, i am nearly sure that he would have slung his hook. Faith stood alone. 7om's idiocy was fueled by this wall of stoney silence, not by Catholic protestations.

appeasers fall into a number of categories. some are ostriches. some have sympathy for the appeased. some do so in fear.

which one are you Kevin?

this hypocrisy makes me sad. it is blatant revisionism.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), April 18, 2004.


PS Rod

"I can now say without a doubt in my mind that I am a CATHOLIC."

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i hope you stick by this -- but if you don't, you are still a very good man.

there is only One Church that offers Truth. the rest is the subjective, errant opinion of men.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Je vous salue, Marie, pleine de grâces,

le Seigneur est avec vous,

vous êtes bénie entre toutes les femmes,

et Jésus le fruit de vos entrailles est béni.

Sainte Marie, Mère de Dieu,

priez pour nous pauvres pécheurs,

maintenant, et à l'heure de notres morts.

Ainsi-soit-il.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), April 18, 2004.


Rod

as the protestants ONCE taught:

"There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know. And since the Holy Spirit has told us nothing about it, we can make of it no article of faith . . . It is enough to know that she lives in Christ."

"The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart."

"[She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ . . . She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures."

"No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity."

"One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God's grace . . . Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ . . . Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God."

that transient school has now abandoned the Mother of God. the Church never will.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Mon âme exalte le Seigneur et mon esprit s'est rempli d'allégresse à cause de Dieu, mon sauveur, parce qu'il a porté son regard sur son humble servante.

Oui, désormais toutes les générations me proclameront bienheureuse, parce que le Tout-Puissant a fait pour moi de grandes choses: Saint est son Nom.

Sa bonté s'étend de génération en génération sur ceux qui le craignent.

Il est intervenu de toute la force de son bras; il a dispersé les hommes à la pensée orgueilleuse; il a jeté les puissants à bas de leur trône et il a élevé les humbles; les affamés, il les a comblés de biens et les riches, il les a renvoyés les mains vides.

Il est venu en aide à Israël son serviteur en souvenir de sa bonté, comme il l'avait dit à nos pères, en faveur d'Abraham et de sa descendance pour toujours.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), April 18, 2004.


David says:

"I do not believe that an honest reading of the scriptures lead you to become Catholic."

I find it interesting that David attacks the notion that Catholics can honestly read the scriptures. Here are a couple of points to consider:

1. If we are going to honestly read the scriptures, we should read all the scriptures. When I was a Baptist, in every Baptist and every other Sola Scriptura church I attended, there was only a subset of of scriptures that were taught and preached on. Is this honest, to only focus on those scriptures that support a particular viewpoint?

2. Do the Sola Scriptura types who attack the Catholic Church ever present Catholic doctrine fairly? I have yet to find anyone who disagrees with Catholic doctrine who is remotely interested in presenting truthfully what the Church teaches. This is most perplexing because if what the Catholic Church teaches is so wrong, you wouldn't have anything to lose by presenting what the Church teaches fairly. Is this honest, I don't think so.

3. Finally, has David or Kevin ever read the Bible honestly? Can a sinner read the Bible honestly? Kevin will argue that David has never read the Bible honestly because he is in a denomination, David will say that Kevin hasn't because the Church of Christ is a cult. Obviously we wouldn't get any agreement on this board as to whether anyone has read the Bible honestly.

-- James (stinkcat_14@hotmail.com), April 18, 2004.


Congrats to Rod!!!

Yes, please do come back to the Catholic forum. I am sure you will be warmly welcomed.

James, I didn't know you were a Protestant convert. So am I! Yes, it was due to an "honest reading of scripture," and of course, the church fathers who proclaim loudly, even from the grave, the TRUTH!

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), April 18, 2004.


"and of course, the church fathers who proclaim loudly, even from the grave, the TRUTH!" - gail

Do you mean ALL the church fathers? Or the selected few (that still disagreed with each other on things such as baptism, etc.) that the Roman Catholic Organization picked and choosed?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com ), April 18, 2004.


"I have yet to find anyone who disagrees with Catholic doctrine who is remotely interested in presenting truthfully what the Church teaches" - James

Try this site.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com ), April 18, 2004.


Dave

link not to be found.

PS well done on the thread restoring!

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), April 18, 2004.


Ian, your Luke rendition of Mary includes the phrase Sainte Marie, Mère de Dieu, Holy Mary mother of God, which obviously is not in the Bible. In that respect I side with the Nestorians. Mary is not God's mother since she came many milions and millions of years later. The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), April 19, 2004.


Ian, www.aomin.org

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), April 19, 2004.

"Sainte Marie, Mère de Dieu"

Jesus is the Son of God. Mary is His Mother. But Jesus is the Son begotten not made. the Blessed Virgin is therefore the Mother of God. these are mysteries beyond our comprehension because in additon, the Church is the Spotless Bride of Christ, the Holy Ghost is the spouse of the Blessed Virgin, the Blessed Virgin is our Mother and the Mother of the Church, the Blessed Virgin is the Queen of Heaven,..., the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost form the Blessed Trinity,....

we may on an individual basis fail to understand this, but that does not make it wrong.

to invent simplistic theories to make it seem closer to our own "back street" reality is wrong.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), April 21, 2004.


David

i have already de-bunked this guy on another thread.

he makes a virtue of saying he will not lie about Catholic teaching before he attackes it; but he does.

spin and counter-spin.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), April 21, 2004.


Ian,

So far no one has been able to prove he's done this. Perhaps you would like to tell me where this post you posted was, or re-post it.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), April 21, 2004.



Did you debunk me, Ian?

I took you one one one for 3 months. What are you talking about?

What I have always told you, David, Gail, Faith, James... is that what you believe is what others have said. These who said it were as human as you and me.

We don't have the original gospels. They already have people's interpretations.

I have already seen 2 versions of the Gospel of John.

The gospel of John once you ake the long discourses looks more like Mark.

So there is dependence on Mark. John and Mark have the same lay out. Except that the entrance to the temple happnens last in Mark, at at the beginning in John. John ch 21 is Luke's account of the fishermen. John ended at ch. 20.

As for Mary being a virgin, no so.

Of the 6 columns of Origin's Hexapla, which were comon rasnlations into Greek of the old Testament,

2 of them: Aquila's and Theodotion use the correct Greek word:neannis , meaning young woman for Isaiah 7:14. The other 4 use the incorrect word parthenos meaning virgin. Hebrew uses Alma=neannis. In Hebrew Bethulah=parthenos=virgin. It is used for Rebekah. The Almah of Isaiah was the wife of the king Ahaz.

So much for debunking....

The Christian Yahwist The man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), April 21, 2004.


Ian,

Sorry, I thought you were talking about James White.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), April 21, 2004.


you are correct David.

i provided some stuff on White that suggests that he too misrepresents Ctholic teaching.

as for de-bunking Elpidio, well,...., i never said that,..

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), April 22, 2004.


David -- the thread was the same one that the guy came along and posted a few times on. the guy from White's organisation, a Calvinist, with a godd sense of hunour. the thread may even have had White's name in its title.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), April 22, 2004.

as for de-bunking Elpidio:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00AlZm

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), April 22, 2004.



or this: http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00ByCn

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), April 22, 2004.

I added more stuff to that one lately, Ian.

Has Anyone had a dream about the Pope lately?

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), April 22, 2004.


See the thread where you say I was debunked.

Mary as Theotokos and not Christokos in early Church

I added my grain of salt, mom Ami Ian.

repondez si vouz pouvez....

Le Yahviste Chretien

L'homme de Yahveh.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), April 22, 2004.


"repondez si vouz pouvez.... "

Respond if you can??

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), April 23, 2004.


Yes, David.

still hasn't.

I found the missing thread. Whatever was left of what I printed before of it.

It was deleted from y desktop when I opened it during the attack by "Tom".

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), April 23, 2004.



David, I restored 2 threads today.

See if can can restore more.

I will post the one on the divinity later.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), April 23, 2004.


Need to be restored:

The ones in bold I have: the one in italics delete after fixing

Did mary the mother of jesus find salvation? How did God inform us of the canon of Scripture? Hello out there! Sola Scriptura Divinity of Christ Sixteen Facts Everyone Should Know About Israel Contrary to popular opinion... Would the real KJV please stand up! Was Luther Saved? Roman Catholic Church - The Anti-Christ? For rod..an answer for you... Age of Accountability - Is it biblical? Does God hate anyone? Delete it Would a Loving God Ever Send Anyone to Hell Is Joseph the Father of Jesus? The Eucharist Misconceptions on Sola Scriptura What is the Roman Organization without the bible? Where did the Bible come from? Christian Living The Pope is the Antichrist? or ! The Smalcald Articles: “Of the Papacy” -- Today Who are the 144,000 in Revelation? Did Jesus die for all or the elect? Do babies go to heaven Did Christ name his church? Do Believers Ever Stop Believing? How Reliable is Logic? Five Men, One Belief, One Story. The Catholic traditions and their proclaimers are workers of darkness How do we get into the True Church of Jesus Christ? Who and What are Demons? Who wrote the Book of Samuel? A Theological Test The Thief on the Cross Jesus Actor Hit by Lightning!

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), April 24, 2004.


work on the divinity of Christ on, that's 86 posts long. the others i can handle

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), April 24, 2004.

I would say you would have to split that Divinity of Christ thread into least 4 or 5 posts, so you won't get an error and mess up the thread

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), April 24, 2004.

besides the Satanic one, this one needs fixing:Once Saved Always Saved?

See you Monday, David

-- Elpidio gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), April 24, 2004.


http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00BxvG

it is fixed

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), April 24, 2004.



It's a fine mess you've made Zarove...there's like 4 or 5 threads all claiming the same name. Do you know how confusing it is to remember which thread to open? Is it behind door number 1, door number 2, door number 3???????????????????

-- (faith01@myway.com), January 31, 2005.

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), January 31, 2005.


David also closed thrrads. I inended everyone to go to the new thread, and cut-and-paste relevancies form the previous thread. its not my fault Frank took it upon himself to create "Baptism thread 3 A"

he shoudl have simpley continued the thread in the ontinuation thread as planned.

so dont blame me on his actions, nor on moderator decisiosn tht are deemed nessisay. when threads get to logn they wreack havok on poepels ocmputers and server space, andneed to be closed.

By the way, Faiht, stop positng on closed threads, yo made the same useless admontion agaisnt me in the thread that was closed.

and Frank, if you read this, you shoin have psoted either in that thread.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), January 31, 2005.


I never once closed a thread Zarove--and I certainly never see any havoc occur from long threads--I can't imagine what you are refering to. But the "Necessity of Water Baptism" thread was not all that long to begin with.

Closing threads is what causes havoc in my opinion because it's like interupting a person in the middle of their thought....it causes the flow to break down and no one knows where they left off.

When a thread dies out or gets too long...then it should be closed as in finished.

If a new thread is to start--it should get a new title.

-- (faith01@myway.com), January 31, 2005.


Faith!

Your posts will really get "interrupted" when the thread gets all corrupted and then won't even work any more. Just do what the moderators suggest. They are the ones who will have to work extra hours to fix the corrupted threads, not you.

.............................................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), January 31, 2005.


I really can't imagine what you mean by that, rod. I have never seen anything of the sort. I personally don't care.

But can we at least be more creative. Star Trek I, Star Trek II, Star Trek III, Star Trek III A???

-- (faith01@myway.com), January 31, 2005.


I didnt create "Water Baptism 3A", or even "Water baptism 3", that was Franks ( not so) bright idea.

Now lay off, Even david Closed threads for the same reason.

I closed the "How do protestnats tust the Binle" thread too. For the same reason. Its jsyt to protect pepls omputers and he baords.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), January 31, 2005.


Your indignation is showing, again. Why do you always play the "I don't know what you mean" card when you know you are wrong?

What? You don't care that the moderators have to take hours to fix broken threads? Ketchup! How do you think those other threads were destroyed? Somebody bombarded them with extremely long posts. It tore up the directory or something. Do you want the moderators agonizing over broken threads? Tomato Sauce! I hope not, Faith. It won't cost you a thing to simply move your posts to the proper parking lot.

"Beam her up, Scotty!!! Please!!!"

..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), January 31, 2005.


Dear Moderator(s),

Would you please deal with PUNKER and his obvious attempts to bring undesirable topics to this forum? It seems that PUNKER is using this forum for his "kicks".

................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 02, 2005.


Better yet...

How about if SDQA talk to his "room-mate" about using a little more discretion with his topics?

...............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 02, 2005.


This board is mad

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), February 02, 2005.

I wish to have the following thread removed from this forum:

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch- msg.tcl?msg_id=00CjyS

This isn't the Anarchy Forum--an anything goes discussion.

.........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 03, 2005.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ