Fire Service Phase 2

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Elevator Problem Discussion : One Thread

I am working in an elevator company in California. Somebody said 2 stops elevator doesn't need phase 2, is that right? I've read the part on ASME A17.1 2000, but could not find such descriptions.

-- J Cao (cronept@msn.com), August 20, 2003

Answers

Phase II

Depends on when it was installed, what code it was installed under, as well as any mandatory retrofits, alterations, and local code requirements. The question could probably be best answered by the State, but if you're in, say, the City of LA, you contact Building and Safety.

As a theoretical example, if this is new construction, civilian application, under the jurisdiction of the State of California DIR (no others),A17.1-2000+Addenda (even though 96 with addenda and exceptions adopted and enforced), ADA, and NFPA, it's a pretty sure bet that Phase I and II is required, as well as all the bells, whistles, switches, sensors, and electrical gear that goes with the current requirements. I've seen 2-stops with a couple hundred foot rise, so the number of stops is pretty irrelevent. Beings as there are exceptions to various codes, as well as cross-jurisdictional disputes and discrepencies, make sure you ask the fire department which answers calls at the location, the fire department that claims jurisdiction at that location(they may not be one in the same), as well as the elevator code authorities (State and/or local city/county) cited earlier.

The only times I have ever seen a public elevator without phase I was a grandfathered job under a certain rise. The only public ones I haven't seen without Phase II had stair-free egress on both of the floors

-- Steve (magnevator@verizon.net), August 20, 2003.


Thanks, Steve. I forgot telling that I was talking about Hydro elevator. But still, I think it is really depends on when and where the elevator was installed.

In fact, I have this question because I am working on an order form which includes all( I am trying) hydro elevator specification. A sales guy came to me and said 2 stoppers don't need Phase II, I'm still not familiar with national codes, local codes and ADA, OSHPD etc. Our company's elevators were installed mainly in California, some in Chicago and Hawaii. Anyway, I think we can't cancel phase II just because it is a 2 stops elevator.

-- J Cao (cronept@msn.com), August 21, 2003.


Phase II and salesmen.

CA Title8, Sub. 6, Group II-http://www.dir.ca.gov/Title8/sub6.html 3071. Operation, Operating Devices and Control Equipment. (l) Operation of Elevators Under Fire or Other Emergency Conditions.

(1) Elevators with automatic operation shall conform to fire and other emergency requirements as follows:

(A) Elevators with automatic power operated hoistway doors to section 3041(c). 1. New subsection (l) filed 9-5-75; effective thirtieth day thereafter (Register 75, No. 36).

Section 3041 is at http://www.dir.ca.gov/Title8/3041.html

There is a section under c.1 that states: "Exception: New elevators having a travel of not more than 25 ft. (7.62m) and elevators existing at the time of adoption of this order with a travel of not more than 50 ft. (15.24m)." So it would appear that Phase I retrofits were required on existing 50+ and new +25's, and the break point for Phase II is 70 feet. D) Elevators having a travel of 70 feet or more above the lowest grade elevation surrounding the building shall be provided with the following operation...(describes Phase II).

BUT since the A.17 is the current code, I would call the State and local jurisdiction and ask them first. The place to also look is the A.17 under the definition of the word "Alteration". Big Hint to find out what you may trigger depending on what you do. Sometimes it's the smallest things that can give you the biggest headaches. It's easier and cheaper to do it right once. Cheers! S.

-- Steve (magnevator@verizon.net), August 21, 2003.


Hi, Steve,

Thank you so much for your help. I will contact local fire dept. and also I will go thru all these codes.

-- J Cao (cronept@msn.com), August 21, 2003.


someone told me once that the firedepart have to stop 2 floors below the problem floor in an elevator. If this is true and it is just from a faded memory, it would explain why phase 2 is not required on a 2 floor job.

-- elev guy (hex1073@hotmail.com), August 24, 2003.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ