What's the writing on the Pope's hat mean?greenspun.com : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread
Can anyone please tell me what the writing on the pope's hat means? I have seen some latin writing, but have no idea what it means. Regards, Francois
-- francois de villiers (email@example.com), April 10, 2003
There is no writing on the Pope's miter whatsoever; therefore you did not see any such writing. The fact is, you have read some foolish anti-Catholic propaganda published by certain hyperfundamentalist Protestant groups. They claim that the Pope's miter bears the inscription "vicarius filii dei" - Vicar of the Son of God. That would be a strange inscription for a Pope's miter, since the phrase is not and never has been a title of the Pope. His title is Vicarius Christi - Vicar of Christ. This spurious inscription was fabricated by anti-Catholic writers early in the 20'th century, specifically designed to have a Roman Numeric equivalent of a number they like to throw around, though they have no idea of its actual meaning - 666. If they bothered to check their facts, they would not publish such absurd claims; but truth is not their concern. Attacking the Church of God is their only objective, and a lie serves as well as a fact if people are foolish enough to believe it.. Anyway, to get back to your question, neither this inscription nor any other inscription appears on the Pope's miter.
-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), April 10, 2003.
He was just asking a question, not enough sleep Paul?
-- roger b. allen (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 10, 2003.
He was not simply asking a question. He was baiting, using misinformation which could only have come from the most biased anti-Catholic sources (see his other post, under "is the Pope sinless"). In any case, I simply answered his "question".
-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), April 10, 2003.
Well then you must know this for a fact. And no you did not "simply" answer his question. Answering his question would be more along the lines of "No, there is no writing on the Pope's hat" and leave it at that without erupting into anti-Catholic rants. I am sure most people here are tired of hearing them (rants) embedded in all the "answers" that are provided.
-- roger b. allen (email@example.com), April 10, 2003.
dearest roger, you are sorely deceived if you think that paul was ranting. The truth of the matter is that the question is a bait. the answer no would be insufficient anyway, as it would leave behind an innevitable question of whether or not Paul is clear in his facts (BTW, im a different paul). Instead Paul has clearly defined why his answer is no, and it was a good definition, not a rant. calm your nerves and stop jumping on someones back just because they seek to protect their faith
-- paul (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), April 10, 2003.
No I am not deceived if I feel Paul can rant in some of his posts. I doubt Paul really cares that I think he rants, so what if I do. I don't feel that his type of approach is productive and does not lend credence to answers speckled with categorization. That is my opinion, not universal fact. Jumping on people's backs, lol, I suppose you could look at it that way but I believe many people here have gone far beyond perfecting that art form.
-- roger b. allen (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 10, 2003.
Maybe there is writing onhis hat. It could be his name. That way he wouldn't get it mixed up with the other pope's hats. Oh wait... Maybe it says something like "front" so he knows which way to put it on. I'm sure it can be quite confusing to wear something like that. Nooo... What if it has the day of the week written on it. He could have a different hat for every day of the week and of course he would have special ones for special occasions. Hmmmm... Actually it could be the name of his softball team. The other players let him wear it as long as he has the same logo as the rest of them. Heck, it could be any of those.
-- Brooks (email@example.com), April 11, 2003.
I have no bias here. I am loyal to the pope, and am Catholic and personally I don't care for that particular vestment, that is the miter. The miter could be done away with because I think it is too pronounced, it's a trapping, like the widening of their phylacteries that Jesus mentioned. I respect the pope as our authority but I can criticize the vestments if I want. Such a vestment just gives weak souls a chance to "go off" as we see here in this thread.
Anyway, francois said, I have seen some latin writing... (on the pope's miter or hat) And Paul knows for a fact that there is no writing on the pope's miter (hat). Therefore, francois must be lying or very confused. However, since this topic has come up before by non-Catholics trying to disrespect the pope, it stands to reason that most likely francois is lying. He has not seen any writing on the pope's miter. So I don't blame the moderator jumping on someone who starts the entire thread with a lie. Look what becomes of it. You now see complete free-for-all rudeness from Brooks, Al and jjk.
This thread can be deleated now.
-- Mike H. (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 11, 2003.
"It can be deleted now?" Why?
-- roger b. allen (email@example.com), April 13, 2003.
Just as a matter of interest, there are two hats which you would normally see the pope wear: the Mitre which one would associate with The Pope and with Cardinals and Bishops, and the Zuchetto, which again would also be associated with Cardinals and Bishops . The Zuchetto is the name of the small white 'skull cap' type of hat worn by the Pope, Cardinals would wear a Red Zuchetto and Bishops would wear a purple Zuchetto. A further type of head-wear to be seen on Bishops and Cardinals would be the Biretta, again in either red or purple.
God bless Sara
-- Sara (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 13, 2003.
"It can be deleted now?" Why?
I said that because the thread was initiated with a lie. So I say delete Satan, the father of lies, in the bud.
-- Mike H. (email@example.com), April 13, 2003.
In fact, I owe Francois some measure of apology. I came on rather strong with him because I immediately recognized his opening remark as a standard come-on used by fundamentalist Christians to bait Catholics into a defensive position. However, I have been in further communication with him, at his initiation and, while he acknowledges that he did not personally see any writing on the Pope's miter, and only read about such alleged writing, I believe he had read about it in what he assumed to be a reliable source, and was honestly seeking information, or at least the Catholic position on the matter. His source of course was far from reliable, and undoubtedly anti-Catholic in content, but I'm not so sure that he is personally.
-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), April 13, 2003.
OK that's fair to leave it be then. He corrected the wording of his question.
-- Mike H. (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 13, 2003.
-- jesuslovesu (email@example.com), April 14, 2003.
Baiting, I believe. Some of the other times it has happened:
#1 ... #2 ... #3
"I have seen some latin writing, but have no idea what it means."
Why would someone lie about this? Why not say, "I have been told" (or "I have read") "that there is some Latin writing"? Why, "I have seen ..."? Paul, your initial reaction was reasonable. Please don't let yourself be deceived. There is a lot of evildoing in the works these days. For example, I have no doubt that "francois de villiers" and "roger b allen" and "martin vicky" and "brooks" and "al quency" are one and the same person -- or are friends working together to wreak havoc here. Trust me. I have been observing satan at work here for more than three years. Satan is extremely unhappy these days. (He lost Iraq.)
God bless you.
-- J. F. Gecik (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 16, 2003.
No doubt, John? Satan? That is quite a statement to make. What is your basis, sir.
-- roger b. allen (email@example.com), April 17, 2003.
Come one give Paul a break... he's only sticking up for the ONE, ONLY TRUE faith. I seriously get cheesed off(sorry if you haven't notcied, I am from Engalnd) by anti catholic people who try to say that the Pope is the antichrist.
-- Andrew Swampillai (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 06, 2003.
In conclusion, In their own minds, God surely smiled down from heaven upon each of the above Christians and surely was pleased at their great individual knowledge and love for each other.
-- R Lowe (email@example.com), May 17, 2003.
I don't don't know about vicarius fili dei, but Pius the IX had Christi Vicario In Terra Regvm on his tiara.
See the inscription here-http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/TiaraPiusIX- inscription.jpg
Full tiara here-http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/TiaraPiusIX-2.jpg
Jesus Christ rules! He is so awesome! Keep the faith! Over and out.
-- Joe Man (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 20, 2003.
Interesting photo, Joe Man. It does not look anything like the last papal tiara, the one used by Pope Paul VI. But, I'll assume that no one has concocted this, and it really is a tiara used by Pope Pius IX before 1900.
I wonder, though, if it may have been instead an extremely ornate miter presented to the pope as a gift. The words you mentioned (Christi Vicario In Terra Regvm) are the only ones that we can see. We can't tell if there are other words not visible to the camera. The reason I wonder if there are other words is that the five words, taken together, do not make perfectly clear sense to me. They appear to be a dedication (or part of one), literally meaning:
"To the Vicar of Christ in the Land of Kings (or Monarchs)."
Unfortunately, various nations call themselves the "Land of Kings" (e.g., Persia, India, Zimbabwe, Morocco, Hawaii, etc.)
God bless you.
-- J. F. Gecik (email@example.com), May 20, 2003.
Personally I've never seen the hat so I have no Idea about what it says; However I have another a question concerning the Catholic religion. Is it true that Homosexual Priests are now allowed.
Thank you for your response. Corin
-- Corin James (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 11, 2003.
No Corin, it's not true. The sexuality of a priest is irrelevant as priests are generally required to be celibate.
The Church teaches that sex outwith the Sacrament of Marriage is a sin, and so whether homosexual or heterosexual, nobody may engage in sexual relations unless married.
-- Sara (email@example.com), July 11, 2003.
I'm sorry Corin, I misread you as saying NOT allowed, rather than NOW allowed. However, the answer's the same. Priests are normally celibate. It's the act involved that is the sin, not the nature of the person. We are to love the sinner but not condone the sin.
-- Sara (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 11, 2003.
Regarding the Pope's hat -
Has ANYONE ACTUALLY seen the inscription on the pope's hat or miter? With your naked eye and not from any public source?
If you haven't, here's a general rule of thumb: 1) Please stop pretending to know what's "really" written on it, and further pretending to know the "real" meaning as if you were once a pope in another life!
2) Please don't believe everything you see, hear, and read. Seriously, unless you have first-hand knowledge of all the facts and the truth, what you "know" could only possibly have come from another source, which came from yet another source, and etc. We all know what happens when one information gets passed on from one source to another: Information Breakdown.
3) Please stop bashing the catholics (and adventists as well) for having whatever misconceptions they might have been led to believe about the pope's silly hat. When it comes to religion, it's not always their fault for being ignorant. They simply don't know any better, because in most cases religion was fed to them since birth. From what I've read thus far, there appears to be a major feud between catholics and adventists regarding the inscription on the pope's hat. So - Adventists, don't get on the offensive. Catholics, don't get on the defensive. You both may be wrong! (How stupid would you feel if you both one day realized how profoundly and fantastically wrong you were?)
4) Finally, if you STILL think that you have all the answers and feel you have some divine conviction regarding your knowledge of the pope's hat (in a Volkswagon), please read General Rule of Thumb #1!!
May the road rise up to meet you... -Jooch
P.S. If, by any chance, you have seen the pope's hat/miter and have a picture of it, please send me a copy (a real one, please)! I'm dying to see what's actually written on it.
-- Jooch (Jooch@hotmail.com), July 25, 2003.
Et cum spiritu tuo. (I hope I spelled the Latin correctly).
It is his cell phone #.
Hopefully, a chuckle for all catholics, trads thru mods.
-- Karl (Parkerkajwen@hotmail.com), July 25, 2003.
"Genesis is a myth." - Pope John Paul II
Did he really say that? And is it really a myth?
-- anonymous (email@example.com), July 27, 2003.
Pope John Paul II has expressed the view that Genesis is not a scientific treatise. For example, in 1981 he said: "The Bible itself speaks to us of the origin of the universe and its makeup, not in order to provide us with a scientific treatise, but in order to state the correct relationship of man with God and the universe."
Pope Pius XII said in his 1950 encyclical 'Humani Generis 36-37' that Catholics are at liberty to believe that creation took a few days or a much longer period, according to how they see the evidence, and subject to any future judgment of the Church. We need not be hostile to modern cosmology. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "[M]any scientific studies . . . have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life forms, and the appearance of man. These studies invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator" (CCC 283). Still, science has its limits (CCC 284, 2293–4).
Yours in Christ, Bill Nelson
-- harlan (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 27, 2003.
To say that some portions of the Bible are myth does not deny that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, nor that everything God inspired is reliable. "Myth" is a literary style in which a story which is not literally true is used as a format to express genuine truth. Aesop's Fables for example are myths. We know when we read them that they cannot be true, since they describe animals talking and reasoning like people. Yet, the messages they convey are genuine truths.
Some myths though may be credible at face value, yet still not literally true. The parables of Jesus fall into this category. Jesus made up stories that would reveal or explain a given truth. They were not descriptions of actual events, and the actual content of the stories was not the message to be delivered. Indeed, if you take parable at face value, simply as a reports of an event that happened, you miss the entire message the story was intended to convey. Other parts of scripture are written in this way, as allegorical representation which expresses underlying truth. Inspired myth is one literary form through which the Word of God reveals the truth God wishes us to know.
-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), July 27, 2003.
"Myth" is a literary style in which a story which is not literally true is used as a format to express genuine truth.
this may not be entirely the explaination either, Paul. in my courses thus far on theology, we defined myth as the way that a given religion regards the creation of and events during existence. this is regardless of the religion or the possible truthfullness of each religions take on life and its origins. thus in theology it is common to refer to the creation story of every religion as its creation myth, and this would be what i think the pope was refering to.
-- paul (email@example.com), July 27, 2003.
Exactly right. Every culture knows that the universe must have come into existence, since it is here. And no culture has a historical record stretching back to creation, or anywhere near that point in time. Therefore, the story each culture has devised to explain the reality of creation is indeed myth. In the Judao-Christian tradition, we have divine revelation, which allows us to know with certainty that God created all things out of nothing, by an act of His will. But that's about it. Revelation tells us very little about just how God did this. Many aspects of the Genesis account(s) are obviously allegorical, such as the reference to "days" of creation. Therefore any details which we attempt to fill in, which are not directly revealed by God, constitute myth, and help us to better appreciate the central truth of God as the source of all that exists.
-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), July 28, 2003.
Hi Paul and paul.
But, what is to keep us from finding some other revelations in Genesis? I am thinking that those revelations are more than those that we already accept: God created all, Man's disobedience, and Man's role in God's creation. It seems probable that everything that we want to know about Creation is found in Genesis in its condensed form. We simple do not know how to extract that knowledge at this particular time in our existence.I guess it is premature to call it a myth because this would imply that we are 100% certain of the meaning and understanding of Genesis.
I've read a little bit of the Quran in regards to Genesis. So, when I start to compare and contrast the stories, I can see how one may describe them as myth. And, this is when the confusion starts to build.
Can we really be sure that Genesis is a myth?
Santa Claus=myth, but it wasn't so in the beginning. How many people believe that Santa Claus is not "real"? (Yes, I know; this is a very simple example.)
-- rod (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 28, 2003.
Ok....I read and re-read the posts. The word myth is being used to describe the story, not the truth of the story. But, somehow I sense that more truth is staring us in the face when we read Genesis.Technological and anthropological(sp?) advances will awaken us to those revelations that Genesis (the Bible) has tucked away waiting to be revealed. At least, I hope so.
-- rod (email@example.com), July 28, 2003.
Firstly, to PaulCyp. Sorry that I have taken so long to reply. I have some questions regarding the catholic faith, but as they are on a personal note, and would quite possible incite a riot on this site, I would prefer mailing you personally. Many thanks for the kind reply regarding the miter. It does clear up a few things for me. Secondly, to the el sicko that wrote the following bit. Since you have NO DOUBT, it would be interesting to know what you do have doubt on!! Mind you, if you believe that we are friends, or know each other, you'll believe anything. Thirdly, to Mike H. Maybe you could divulge your source of information to the rest of us mere mortals on how you would know without any shadow of doubt that I was lying? Seems that you might have some inside info here. Are you perhaps related to the person that is an acknowledged expert on how satan works, having had 3 years of coalface experience? I have a question for the rest of the herd. The Bible teaches that we will all stand before the Judgement seat of God, and give an account of ourselves. Do you think that the Catholics will be judged on the Catholic teaching, or the Protestants on Protestant teaching, or maybe the Pentecostals by what they believe?
-- francois (firstname.lastname@example.org), August 12, 2003.
-- (@@@.@), August 12, 2003.
Anthonie, your recent post has been deleted. You will have to show more respect than your recent post if you want your future posts to remain. You can't call the Holy Father names and expect us Catholics to tolerate it. Please read our "Rules of the Forum" thread before posting further so that, you will be aware of what is expected of posters.
-- Ed (email@example.com), March 22, 2004.
I have also heard the statements about the Pope, and I wanted to research it more. I am not a Catholic but wanted to give the Pope the benefit of the doubt. Paul said that the Pope's miter said "Vicarius Christi". Which he said that it meant the Vicar of Christ. In the Webster's dictionary the word "Vicar" means the subsitute. I'm sorry but there is not a person on this earth whether it is John Paul (whatever number he is now) or you or I that can be a subsitute for Jesus Christ. If you study the Bible before Jesus died you had to bring a sacrifice to a priest and they would take it to a high priest. And then you were cleansed of your sins. But when Jesus died he opened to door for us to talk directly to God. So there shouldn't have to be a subsitute for that relationship that you should have with God. It should be something personal. I am not downing the Catholics. I am interested in learning more about the doctrines of diffrent religions. I hope no one is offended but I felt led to speak what I believe.
-- A White (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 20, 2004.
Dear A. White,
You were commenting on the fact of "Vicarius Christi" translated as Vicar of Christ. To understand the implications and defenses, you must properly understand the whole "rock" of Peter and "keys of the Kingdom".
Jesus says "I give you the keys of the kingdom" not just as figural references, but intentionally does so since he is quoting scripture as he often did; this time from the Book of Isaiah. Here is the Scriptural evidence of this
Keys have always been used as a symbol of power and authority for the Jews. He who has the key can open the locked door. He who has not the key remains locked out. The one who has the key has all authority over who enters through the locked door. If He shuts (locks), no one can open (unlock). If He opens (unlocks), no one can shut (lock).
--------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- "And to the angel of the Church at Philadelphia write: Thus says the Holy One, the True One, he who has the Key of David, he who opens and no one shuts, and who shuts and no one opens: I know thy works. Behold, I have caused a door to be opened before thee which no one can shut, for thou hast scanty strength, and thou hast kept My Word and hast not disowned My Name." Rev 3:7-8
--------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- The Key of David, what is that?
--------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- "And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call My servant Eliakim the son of Helcias, and I will clothe him with thy Robe, and I will strengthen him with thy Sash, and will give thy Power (authority) into his hand; and he shall be as a FATHER (the word 'Pope' means 'Father') to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah. And I will lay the Key of the House of David (an Office, the Papacy) upon his shoulder; and he shall open and none shall shut; and he shall shut and none shall open. And I will fasten him as a peg in a Sure Place (Rome), and he shall be for a Throne of glory to the house of his Father. And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his Fathers house, diverse kinds of vessels, every little vessel, from the vessels of cups even to every instrument of music." Isaiah 22:20-24
'My servant' means 'Faithful to GOD'. Eliakim means 'GOD will establish'. Here we have a figure who is faithful to GOD and someone whom GOD will exalt. In several verses in Scripture, whenever this Eliakim is mentioned, he is also shown to be 'Over the Household', 2Kings 18:18, 2Kings 18:37, 2Kings 19:2, Isaiah 36:3, Isaiah 36:22, Isaiah 37:2. In Isaiah 36:3, he is described as being 'Over the House'. The Pope is certainly 'Faithful to GOD', and he is 'Over the House of GOD', the visible Church on earth.
So what do we have here? We have an Office, a Sash, a Robe, a Throne, a Key, and a Sure Place.
The House of David is the Davidic Kingdom. David is a figure of Christ.
The Office is the Papacy, the HOLY FATHER (the Pope) to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the House of Judah, (the Church), the Vicar of Christ, the Bishop of Rome, the successor of Saint Peter, the visible head of the Catholic Church on earth.
The Sash, The Robe, the Throne, and the Keys are symbols of his authority.
The Sash is what separates the prime priest from the other priests, "Therefore, to the various expert workmen whom I have endowed with skill, you shall give instructions to make such vestments for Aaron as will set him apart for his sacred service as My priest. These are the vestments they shall make; a breastpiece , an ephod, a Robe, a brocaded tunic, a miter, and a Sash." Ex 28:3-4. "He (Aaron) shall wear the sacred linen Tunic, with the linen drawers next to his flesh, gird himself with the linen Sash and put on a linen Miter (the Pope wears a Miter)." Lev 16:3
The Robe symbolizes his authority as The Bishop of Rome, the Supreme Pontiff, the High Priest of the Visible Church on earth. "As an olive tree budding forth, and a cypress tree rearing itself on high, when he put on the Robe of Glory, and was clothed with the perfection of Power. When he went up to the Holy Altar, he honored the vesture of Holiness. And when he took the portions out of the hands of the priests, he himself stood by the Altar. And about him was the ring of his brethren: and as the cedar planted in mount Libanus, and as branches of palm trees, they stood round about him, and all the sons of Aaron in their glory. And the Oblation of the Lord (the Holy Eucharist) was in their hands before all the Congregation (Church) of Israel. And finishing his service on the Altar, to honor the offering of the Most High King, he stretched forth his hand to make a libation, and offered the Blood of the Grape (wine transformed into the Blood of Christ)." Sir 50:11-16 "Now therefore we make thee this day High Priest (Vicar of Christ) of thy nation, and that thou be called the King's friend (and he sent them a Purple Robe, and a Crown of Gold (Miter)), and that thou be of one mind with us in our affairs, and keep friendship with us." 1Macc 10:20
The Throne is the Chair (Seat) of Saint Peter from which the Vicar of Christ proclaims to the whole world, infallible statements on faith and morals. Moses, the Leader of GOD's chosen people had a Seat of Authority. "The Scribes and the Pharisees have sat on the Chair of Moses." Matt 23:2 "This Propitiatory (Mercy Seat) you shall then place on top of the Ark. In the Ark itself you are to put the Commandments which I will give you. There I will meet you and there, from above the Propitiatory, between the two cherubim on the Ark of the Commandments, I will tell you all of the commands that I wish you to give the Israelites (Ex-Cathedra)." Ex 25:20-22 "He took the Commandments and put them in the Ark; he placed poles alongside the Ark and set the Propitiatory upon it." Ex 40:20 "...the Lord spoke to Moses and said to him, "Tell your brother Aaron that he is not to come whenever he pleases into the sanctuary, inside the veil, in front of the Propitiatory on the Ark; otherwise, when I reveal myself in a cloud above the Propitiatory, he will die (GOD will speak to His chosen Visible Leader on earth only, His Vicar)." Lev 16:2 "When Moses entered the Meeting Tent to speak with Him, he heard the voice addressing him from above the Propitiatory on the Ark of the Commandments, from between the two cherubim; and it spoke to him... (Ex-Cathedra)" Num 7:89 The Mercy Seat thus becomes the protector of the Ark and its contents. In the Ark were the Stone Tablets handed to Moses, Aarons staff, and the Manna from Heaven. These are prefigurements of the New Ark of the Covenant, the Blessed Virgin Mary, as she carried within her womb, the Word of GOD, the Power of GOD, and the Body of Christ, the Manna from Heaven. The Keys are symbolic of His Authority over the 'Binding and Loosening' powers over sin, and as a symbol of discernment. The Sure Place, of course, is The Vatican in Rome.
As you see from the Isaiah excerpt, when the king left for some time before returning, he entrusted his kingdom to someone who ruled in his place. He gave that chosen person total authority over the kingdom and to rule and make decisions as if the king himself. This all sounds quite familiar does it not? The Pope, from the beginning, has been "Vicarius Christi", who rules "in persona Christi" until Christ comes again.
-- Andrew Staupe (email@example.com), April 21, 2004.
Paul never stated that an inscription marked vicarius Christi could be found on the mitre of the Pope. What he said in his very firt post was: There is no writing on the Pope's miter whatsoever; therefore you did not see any such writing
Paul later went on to address the fact that the pope's title is vicarius christi. This title is not inscribed on any of the popes mitres. The only recorded papal headpiece which has writing on it (which i might mention has never been worn by a pope) was a gift from poland. the inscription was nothing near either vicarius filii dei or vicarius Christi.
Now, vicarius does not properly tranlate to "substitute." remember, when you look up the english version vicar in the dictionary, what you are getting is a close translation of an english word with another english word that is ROUGHLY equivalent. thus you have gotten a translation of an english word, which in turn was a modernized english translation of a latin word.
The word vicarius, or vicar, might better be understood as "representative of" or "one who speaks for." these titles belong to the pope in the sense that he hold the throne of peter and will hold that throne until Christ comes again. It is the apostolic succession that gives the pope the right to represent the will of Christ in the world.
-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), April 21, 2004.
A one-word definition from a dictionary cannot be taken as an explanation of a Christian doctrine! "Substitute" is a woefully inadequate definition of "vicar", as least in the sense the term is used by God's Church. A more accurate one-word definition would be "representative"; however, that too is inadequate to provide a full understanding of the term. Specifically, a vicar is one placed in charge by a higher authority, to administrate his affairs in the physical absence of the higher authority. A vicar possesses no personal authority, but administrates only by the authority of, and always fully subject to the authority of the one who appointed him. That describes the ministry of the Pope perfectly.
-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), April 21, 2004.
i am absolutly sure it does not mean he can forgive sins nor can any man. i would realy like some one to show me where christ gave this athority to any one.
-- matthew horton (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 12, 2004.
Jesus forgives sins, and He authorized the Church to declare the forgiveness of sins through the Church authority - the apostles. In the first two passages below, Jesus speaks to the apostles, and in the third, specifically to Peter. This is not to general Christians, but to the Church leaders.
John 20 (NIV)
Jesus Appears to His Disciples
19On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 20After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord. 21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."
Mt. 18 (NIV)
A Brother Who Sins Against You
15"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. 18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
Mt 16 (NIV) 16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be  loosed in heaven." 20Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.
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