2 Miami-Dade firefighters refuse to ride on truck with American flag

Sun Sentinel

ASSOCIATED PRESS Posted September 19 2001, 2:28 PM EDT

MIAMI-- Two Miami-Dade County firefighters refused to ride on a fire engine carrying the American flag, saying Old Glory was offensive, officials said Wednesday.

The two firefighters, one an engine driver and the other a firefighter, showed up for work Saturday morning, saw the flag on the truck and refused to ride, telling crew members that the flag represented oppression, said Miami-Dade Fire-Rescue spokesman Lt. Louie Fernandez.

The crew chief then ordered the flag's removal so that the seven-member unit could answer 911 calls, Fernandez said.

``He (the crew chief) felt the best thing to do was for the administration to deal with this later,'' Fernandez said. ``This way, citizens were never affected as far as their fire and rescue service.''

Fernandez declined to identify the two firefighters, who work at Station 26 in Opa-locka, a small town in north Miami-Dade County. He said they have been on scheduled leave since Saturday but will return to work Monday.

``We're getting statements from all the firefighters involved,'' Fernandez said.

On Monday, Miami-Dade Fire Chief Dave Paulison ordered all county fire engines to carry the American flag in honor of the firefighters and police officers killed in New York in last week's terrorist attacks.

Fernandez said if the two firefighters refuse to ride when they return to work, they ``will be met with severe discipline.''

``I've had more than 100 phone calls from firefighters around the county who are appalled at this report,'' Fernandez said. ``We lost 400 colleagues in New York. This is our way of expressing sympathy.''

Copyright © 2001, South Florida Sun-Sentinel

-- Anonymous, September 19, 2001

Answers

Just heard this story [partially] on our Channel 7. The guys are saying that they removed it from the truck, and refused to work the truck, because the flag represented a traffic safety hazard.

One guy, black, was saying that he respects some of the ideals that the flag represents, but points out that it also represents the country that hasn't apologized for the slavery and oppression from 400 years ago.

We'll see what happens next Monday when the two return.

Frankly, if these were the fire fighters that showed up to save me or mine, I would refuse their help.

-- Anonymous, September 19, 2001

Unbelievable. Here they are, taking public funds for the work they do, supposedly saving lives, yet they say the flag represents oppression. Jeeze! These people! I mean, what DOESN'T represent oppression to them? By "them," I mean this type of person, not blacks. There are plenty of whites going around saying the same damn thing.

-- Anonymous, September 19, 2001

This is America; we have a right to display our flag. Accept it or leave. International flights are flying again, not to mention that there are probably a few slow boats to the ME out there.

-- Anonymous, September 19, 2001

Well, heck, is Miami still a part of the US? Or is it now a colony, or protectorate, with English being the second language and all? What's the story Barefoot? Has Miami/Dade slipped away from us?

-- Anonymous, September 19, 2001

I tell ya, we're beginning to wonder!

Lastest line on this is that it was all a misunderstanding. The flag was a safety hazard, allegedly. And while the men may have political opinions that 'go against the grain,' it was the safety issue that caused them to refuse to drive the vehicle with the flag on it.

Thing is, why did they have to take leave for a week? Hmmm?

More, as this develops. I really think they should quit that job and go back to the Quicky Mart if that is how they feel.

-- Anonymous, September 19, 2001

Fire their sorry asses.

Maybe it's something in the water...I heard on the radio today that the head librarian of a college library in Florida (forget where) ordered the other librarians to remove their flag pins. She didn't want to offend the foreign students.

Fire her sorry ass, too.

-- Anonymous, September 20, 2001

There are really many more wonderful countries for them to live in...

The old saying "America, Love It or Leave It" seems to be coming into it's own again...

-- Anonymous, September 20, 2001

BK, here is a link for you, library thread

The latest, or 'lastest' as I wrote before.

Miami Herald

Published Friday, September 21, 2001

IT'S A FREE COUNTRY

Rally round the flag? Not always

BY SARA OLKON, ADRIENNE SAMUELS AND LISA ARTHUR larthur@herald.com

In an Opa-locka firehouse, two Miami-Dade firefighters take exception to the American flag flying from their truck.

In a manicured subdivision in Pembroke Pines, a white-robed effigy of Osama bin Laden swings from a tree.

Both expressions of a personal belief drew anger from some of those who saw them. But the freedom to express an opinion is at the very heart of the American Way.

Waving powerful symbols -- like the flag and an effigy of Osama bin Laden -- gives people a sense of purpose at a time of powerlessness, said Thomas Steinfatt, a University of Miami professor specializing in intercultural communication.

``There's a real frustration of not being able to get back at, or even see a way for your government to get back at, the people who did this,'' Steinfatt said. ``I think part of it is a genuine sorrow and to show oneness with the people who were killed and with the people working in the rescue effort.''

In the case of the flag, however, the symbol doesn't mean the same thing to everyone.

Miami-Dade firefighters Jim Moore and Terry Williams objected Saturday to climbing aboard a fire truck that sported a large American flag. The two are not Muslims, as had been widely reported. Their objections have more to do with seeing the flag as a symbol of oppression.

``When asked as to why the American flag was taken off the truck, Moore responded by saying that the flag was offensive to him,'' their supervisor, Lt. Michael Simon, wrote in a memo about the incident. ``Williams agreed. Moore stated that the flag was a symbol of oppression to the black man.''

Williams wrote in a statement that the incident had been blown out of proportion. He wrote that he and Moore removed the flag because it blocked their view and because of their ``political view about the country's situation.''

Steinfatt said that's not an uncommon reaction.

``Black Americans perceive a lot of areas of discrimination that are not evident to whites,'' he said. ``To some, the flag represents white America, not all of America.''

MANDATORY DISPLAY

Nevertheless, in response to the incident, Fire Chief Dave Paulison ordered all county fire engines to carry the American flag as a symbol of unity, national pride and patriotism.

The American Civil Liberties Union backs the chief's decision, saying that displaying a flag on a fire truck is not the same as forcing a firefighter to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

``While individuals certainly have a First Amendment right to an opinion, it's hard to say that the display of the American flag on the truck is attributable to every firefighter on the truck,'' said Randall Marshall, legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida.

Lawyers told the manager of a Pembroke Pines subdivision that legally they couldn't stop a homeowner from putting a display on his front lawn.

Stringing an effigy of bin Laden from a tree in front of his Pembroke Pines home seemed patriotic to Jose Gonzalez.

``We're all American; that's what's important,'' Gonzalez said. ``A lot of people in the U.S. don't know what a great advantage freedom is. The only way to really depict [how I feel about bin Laden] is to show a death.''

One neighbor, however, complained to the police.

``I'm afraid of what this will mean to my children,'' said the woman, who asked not to be identified. ``They walk to school every day past this house.''

Tom Evans, general manager of the Silverlakes subdivision where Gonzalez lives, said Gonzalez would be asked to remove the display.

NO DEMAND

``But we're not going to demand [it],'' Evans said. ``If we start demanding, it'll be an issue of freedom of speech. . . . At this time of grief and anger, we don't want to go out there and antagonize people, for the obvious reasons.''

Steinfatt said that's a genuine concern. Everyone should think twice, he said, before striking an inflammatory pose. In the cases of the firefighters and Gonzalez, Steinfatt said he defends their right to express themselves, but questions the wisdom.

TIMING QUESTIONED

``They have absolutely every right to feel that way,'' he said. ``However, it is probably not an advantageous time to be pushing that. Do you really want to assert your rights just to assert them when it is going to upset people?''

Three houses down from the Gonzalez residence, Frank Shober Jr. spent eight hours drawing a chalk mural of the Statue of Liberty, the U.S. flag and the World Trade Center's twin towers on the asphalt in front of his house.

``God bless N.Y. and D.C.,'' he wrote in block letters.

If the weather holds, Shober plans to draw a dove at the top of the mural for peace.

Shober's mother thinks the two displays on her block are ``quite a contrast, I guess.''

``Everybody's different, and they have different expressions,'' Karen Shober said.

Herald staff writer Beth Reinhard contributed to this report.

-- Anonymous, September 20, 2001

>Everyone should think twice, he said, before striking an inflammatory pose. In the cases of the firefighters and Gonzalez, Steinfatt said he defends their right to express themselves, but questions the wisdom.

I like the last sentence. If the firefighters honestly felt the placement of the flag was a hazard, it could've been moved to another place on the truck. We have a similar problem with the students making displays of hanging religious leaders (and the coach of University of Michigan right before that football game is played). I have suggested that displaying an American flag (and the OSU flag before games) in a respectful manner is an appropriate response. There is no need to fill up a yard with 500 flags or to fill up the tree with "hanging bodies." That one flag, displayed in the fronts of many homes in a neighborhood, says more to me about our unity than the other gestures.

-- Anonymous, September 20, 2001

I suspect that there will be a movement started to have those two removed, considering how they feel. What patriot would feel safe having those two working to put out a fire if the two knew it was a patriot.

-- Anonymous, September 20, 2001

From the other coast...

Berkeley fire trucks stripped of flags, Safety cited; mayor opposes decision

Meredith May, Henry K. Lee, Chronicle Staff Writers Thursday, September 20, 2001

San Francisco Chronicle

In a move that is sparking a nationwide debate on patriotism versus safety, Berkeley firefighters have been ordered by their top brass to fold up the American flags waving from the back of their fire trucks.

Begrudgingly, the flagpole-sized Stars and Stripes were removed today in advance of a Stop the War rally at University of California at Berkeley's Sproul Hall Plaza -- the birthplace of the nation's Free Speech Movement.

Sproul is also the spot where countless protests have degenerated into burn- and-pillage free-for-alls, where rally-goers loot Bancroft Way and Telegraph Avenue stores, upturn vehicles and set fires.

"Based on past experience, these flags may be inflammatory to people and provoke them to take the flag or whatever else," said Berkeley Assistant Fire Chief David Orth.

"I don't want a firefighter defending a flag in lieu of fighting a fire or rescuing somebody."

Firefighters may be allowed to put smaller flags back on their engines and trucks tomorrow, Orth said, if today's protests go without incident. Firefighters had been using flagpole-size flags from department storage because all the stores were sold out of smaller ones.

Even so, tearful firefighters called Mayor Shirley Dean yesterday, and she was quick to take their side. Shortly after a Utah radio station aired the story, she started taking calls from reporters in a dozen states.

"This really reflects poorly on our city," she said. "I can appreciate the Fire Department's concerns, but I don't want those fears to become a self- fulfilling prophecy."

In the days after Islamic fundamentalists wiped out the World Trade Center and part of the Pentagon, Dean said the flag became an emotional symbol of brotherhood for the several hundred New York firefighters who died trying to save innocent office workers.

The removal order was insulting to Berkeley firefighters, she said, especially after they had just collected $50,000 for the relief effort by going door to door.

"I can't believe anyone who attends a rally for peace would attack the flag, " she said.

But rally organizer Ronald Cruz of Berkeley Stop the War Coalition wasn't so sure, noting that the possibility of war brings out strong emotions in people. Proponents of war could incite people at the rally and "you just never know."

"I think it was wise for the Fire Department to take them down," he said. "Some people are upset how the mass grief of the nation has been manipulated into support of war."

For the most part, firefighters interviewed this morning said they realized that the order was a safety issue, not a patriotic one.

"It's no big deal," said one firefighter, a five-year department veteran who like others did not want to give his name.

"Knowing the history of Berkeley and the city itself, we don't want to be targets, otherwise we won't be able to help anyone."

All of the city's seven fire stations had flags placed prominently on the engines. The city's 124 firefighters wanted to show solidarity with the missing firefighters and police officers in New York, he said.

A fire captain said the order was not all that unusual in times of potential strife in the city. In the past, firefighters have removed fittings and temporarily stored hoses where protesters can't pull at them.

"This is a tactical decision by the administration," the captain said. "We're not happy about having to take the flags down -- we all want them up."

"As politically volatile as the city can be, if one of the protesters is incited by seeing the flag, we're going to defend it -- and there would be fistfights," he said. "And we're here to help people, not hurt people."

E-mail the writers at mmay@sfchronicle.com and hlee@sfchronicle.com

-- Anonymous, September 21, 2001

Why would Americans in Berkely oppose flags on fire trucks?

Are they indeed Americans? I wonder...

-- Anonymous, September 21, 2001