After following internet links to truthful news about Waco, Ruby Ridge, Columbine, the LA shooter and the Texas shooter along with studying the truth behind the massive killings in Guetamala (from the Truth Commission Report), Kosovo, Rwanda, and Indonesia...I have deduced this "Whatever the US government says through it's main media mouth pieces is total BS". I do not doubt for a minute that we here in the US will be subjected to terrorist attacks, but with all this hype and build up about Osama bin Laden, he will be my LAST suspect.

-- meg davis (meg9999@aol.com), December 28, 1999

Answers

Bin Ladden is a pip-squeak. He is a nobody. I would not worry about him. He is just the latest patsy promoted by .gov to distract you from the real power-brokers - the Federal Reserve.

For more on this see my posts in Will Osama Bin Laden destroy the World?

I mean lets compare who is more powerful. Does Bin Ladden compare to the following (and after all, all you know about Bin Ladden is what the press told you -how do you know it is even true - we know what is list below is irrefutable fact and the press who pride themselves on "investigative reporting" can't (won't, ordered not to) report on this which is the truth).

For those of you who have not seen my posts and do not understand what the unregulated, unaudited, unaccountable private institution (which has nothing more to do with the Federal Government than Federal Express) known as the "Federal" Reserve is all about, and at the risk of repeating my self, onnnee moorrre time, (as you will see this issue is at the core of EVERY other issue and is without a doubt THE most critical issue, period), just look at the following irrefuatable facts about what the Federal Reserve is.

Not believing these facts would be difficult to do unless you are willing to refute decades of Congressional Records, many court cases and testimony from prominent people and be able to demonstrate the Framers of the Constitution, Jefferson, Jackson, McFadden and many luminaries from Americas past were all fighting some fantom and that text of the actual laws which were passed by congress concerning the Federal Reserve are all bogus.

Federal Reserve and the European Banker Families that own it have:

a) the power to get congress to pass an unconstituional law that gives them the sole power to print the "US" dollar (really the Federal Reserve dollar which the US uses as its currency). The Constitution strictly states that only Congress shall have the power to coin money.

So hideous is the Federal Reserve Act that it fully realized the Constitutional Framers worst fears.

You may be surprised to learn that the Federal Reserve is the fourth central bank the United States has had, the previous three having crashed in inevitable raging inflation and widespread economic disaster. So clearly did our Founders understand and fear worthless paper money forced on the public by legal tender laws (precisely what we now have) that they filled the proceedings of the Constitutional Convention with statements of their horror of it. Americans today, deprived of hearing such truth, need to listen to their words:

* George Mason of Virginia: I have a mortal hatred of paper money.

* John Langdon of New Hampshire: I would rather reject the whole [Constitution] than grant the new government the right to issue fiat money."

* George Reed of Delaware: The right to issue fiat money would be as alarming as the mark of the beast in Revelation."

* Thomas Paine: The punishment of a member of Congress who should move for such a law ought to be death."

b) the power to get congress to pass a law to allow them to remain private and unregualted, unauditable accountable to no one and pay no tax even though they are a private organization.

c) the power in 1862 to force the Congress to pass a law that states that the US government should not accept its own currency on import duties it levies on its own citizens and that the US government must accept payment of its Bonds in paper currency but pay interest to the bond holders in gold. Effectively they have the power to make the US Government announce to the world we don't think our currency is good enough for these two items and only gold should be used. Guess where they had to buy the gold from to pay the interest on the original debt. Guess where the importers had to buy the gold from to pay the duties. Guess who got all the gold back when the government paid its interest on its bonds. The bankers who bought the bonds in the first place.

d) The power to cause the US debt to go from $1B in 1913 when the Fed was set up to $24B by the late 20's. How? Because the Federal Government must borrow money simply to keep the currency in circulation. Ever heard of anything so stupid. Yet that is what has been going on since 1913. Ever wonder why the debt keeps growing. It is mathematically not possible for it be paid back.

e) the power to bring a sitting president (Woodrow Wilson) to his knees and state after he signed the Federal Reserve Act to state:

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

f) McFadden states in his address to the House of Respresentatives at the height of the Depression:

"Mr. Chairman, we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks.

"Thirteen months later, that promise was broken; and the Wilson administration, under the tutelage of those sinister Wall Street figures who stood behind Colonel House, established here in our free country the worm-eaten, monarchical institution of the "King's Bank," to control us from the top downward, and to shackle us from the cradle to the grave.

"One of the greatest battles for the preservation of this Republic was fought out here in [President] Jackson's day, when the Second Bank of the United Sates -- which was founded upon the same false principles as those which are exemplified in the Federal Reserve Act -- was hurled out of existence.

"Before the Senate Banking and Currency Committee, while the Federal Reserve Bill was under discussion, Mr. Crozier, of Cincinnati, said:

'In other words, the imperial power of elasticity of the public currency is wielded exclusively by these central corporations owned by the banks.'

"This is a life and death power over ALL local banks AND ALL BUSINESS. It can be used to create or destroy prosperity, to ward off or cause stringencies or panics.

"Every effort has been made by the Federal Reserve Board to conceal its power. But the truth is that the Federal Reserve Board has usurped the government of the United States.

"It controls everything here; and it controls our foreign relations. It makes or breaks governments at will."

The Bottom Line is the Fedeeral Reserves controls the country. If the government wishes to do X, and the Fed doesn't agree, X will not be done. If the Fed wants to do Y, the government will comply else the Fed will induce a financial crisis that would get the government thrown out. End of story.

This is called power. This is the power to dictate the American Government. This is the power to have the full resources of the American Government at your disposal to do with as you please. Do not assume for a moment that this power will be foresaken for anybody any time soon.

This power has been enjoyed be these Banker Families since 1694.

In 1694 William III was involved in a war with France. He needed money and he needed it in large quantities. The British coffers were empty so he asked for vast loans of money from a super-rich Englishman named William Paterson and some of his wealthy friends. Paterson and his friends were perfectly agreeable to the loan providing they were allowed to do two things:

1.Set up a privately-owned bank to be called the Bank of England.

2.Receive authority from the king to issue their own bank notes or certificates as the official legal tender of England.

Everything else that you hear and see in the news is just a distraction to keep your attention away from the real worry: The Federal Reserve. You are slaves of the Federal Reserve through your taxes which go to pay them interest and through their control of inflation. They require you to pay taxes so they can collect interest. They require the IRS for this. The IRS requires Social Security for this as that is how they have juridiction over you. Guess what? Everybody knows Social Security is the only government agency that has been taking y2k seriously and has been working on it for 10 years. Ever wonder why? Its because they won't let their jurisdiction and control fail.

In 1862 the Bank of England/Rothschilds (do not be deceived by name, "Bank of England"; Bank of England was/is a *private* bank) issued and distributed to American banksters a document, The Hazard Circular, quoted in part below:

"Slavery is likely to be abolished by the war power, and chattel slavery abolished. This, I and my European friends are in favor of, for slavery is but the *owning of labor*, and carries with it the *care of labor*, while the European plan, led on by England, is that capital shall control labor by controlling wages. The great debt that capitalists will see to it is made out of the [Civil] war must be used to control the value of money. To accomplish this, the Government bonds must be used as a banking basis.

"We are now waiting for the Secretary of the Treasury of the United States to make this recommendation. It will not do to allow greenbacks, as they are called, to circulate as money any length of time, as we cannot control that, but we can control the bonds and through them the bank issues."

Like I said this is called power, the rest is irrelevant and just a distraction to keep your mind busy.

Source links for those who want to read about his themselves:

McFaddeen speech to House of Representatives

The Comming Battle

Book written in 1899 documenting from irrefutable congressional records and laws passed the first 3 attempts to set up central banks since the time of Jefferson and shows the power wielded by the European Banker Families. Makes a Tom Clancy novel read like a kindergarten story.

President Jackson's veto message for the United States Bank

Has anyone else thought this explains all the terrorism/hacker warning?

OT?IF Y2k is such a threat why is gold/silver so cheap

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 28, 1999.

I kind of agree. after reading Infomagic's article, it makes me Wonder, at any rate, if we are trying to set up the Middle East as the Bad Guys because THEY have something WE WANT - namely, their oil.

He says if anything's likely to bring on WWIII, that's it.

-- DB (tomG@h.com), December 28, 1999.

For those whose primary knowlege of Islam is from the western media here are a few facts to ponder over:

1) There are approxmiately 1B muslims world wide (estimates of 100m in Russia, 250-300m in China alone). The Mid East have about 10% of the total.

2) Muslims consider Christians and Jews "ahlel kitaab". "People of the Book". That is people who believe in one god, his unity, and his revelations (i.e. they are monotheistic religions). Muslims have no quarell with Jews and Christians as Muslims completely and fully believe in Moses and Jesus (and Noah and the angel Gabriel, etc. etc.) as messengers or angels from God like the Prophet Mohammed. They fully believe in Jesus' miraculous brith and Virgin Mary. (So as Christians we should actually be greatful that the Muslims doubled the number of people in the world that believe in the Virgin Mary and Jesus). Prior to the founding of Israel and events of this century, Jews have lived inside Muslim areas for centuries with no conflict.

3) Islam is Arabic for Peace. For all intents and purposes Muslims are normal peaceful people with families, just like you and me. There are a few who cause trouble and the media focus on them. As Andy posted do not confuse these political conflicts with Muslim's and Islam. Would we consider the IRA or arpathied South Africa representative of Christianity? Of course not we understand that these are political issues. But the media insists on addressing political issues in the Mid East as "Muslim" issues or "Islamic" issues instead of policital issues and leaving the references to Muslims and Islam out. Would be angry if that was what was portrayed had the roles been reversed (i.e. Muslims are 1st world and Christians 3rd world)?

4) How would you feel if the UN just decided to give, say California to the Native populations of America and told all Californian's to just "leave"? That is the issue why Israel is at the center of the conflicts.

Until we in the West insist that 1B Muslims and the religion of Islam not be slandered by the press by associating policital issues with Islam and Muslims we will continue to be the brunt of their anger. And it serves us right as we aren't following the golden rule "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 28, 1999.

Interested Spectator, I Love what you wrote. And one of my favorite people is a former musician with former name of Cat Stevens. He wrote "Peace Train" and "Morning Has Broken" - and I could go on, but -

He changed his name to Yousef Islam years ago, and started a school in Londen also, for the other Islamic children as well as his own five children, so that they could be TAUGHT their heritage instead of having to be in the public schools and be forcibly DENIED their heritage. I agree. We are brothers and sisters.

Now I'm gonna have to leave this site for awhile and attend to some other business and final preparations. Take care, Interested Spectator.

-- DB (tomG@h.com), December 28, 1999.

Spellcheck please.(chuckle)

-- DB (tomG@h.com), December 28, 1999.

Interested Spectator, I have to add this, I think it's rather funny and Just happened.

I had washed my hair a little while ago and I was sitting here with a towel wrapped around my head, like a turban. My husband walked in and we talked for a minute, and then I told him, "I really need to get this towel off my head and get my hair dried."

And he said, "Hey, I thought it was Ramadan."

I thought that was brilliant. We also happen to like Hakeem(the Dream)Olijaiwan(I need my son here to spell Hakeem's last name.)

-- DB (tomG@h.com), December 28, 1999.

Osama bin Laden is merely the latest in a series of scapegoats or boogiemen...that included:

Osama bin Laden, militias, religious fundamentalists (cults), and of course, the ever-present hoarders!

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), December 28, 1999.

* George Reed of Delaware: The right to issue fiat money would be as alarming as the mark of the beast in Revelation."

Exactly! Deutch Mark (of the beast)!

Dare anyone out there to conduct business without a number!

We are already there and have been for years.

But the living dead continue to walk about!

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), December 28, 1999.

Interested Spectator,

Regarding your points:

1) Assuming your are correct that only 10% of Muslims reside in the Middle East, why are the other 90% so silent in the face of barbarism by the 10%? Surely, good folks everyone are horrified by murder, terrorism, hijacking of innocent people, etc. Where are the condemnations by the 90%?

2) If Muslims consider Christians and Jews "People of the Book," why were these people not allowed to worship their religions in Jerusalem when the Muslims were in control of the land?

3) No comment needed here. Calling yourself peaceful is one thing- behaving peacefully is another.

4) Muslims were not expelled when Israel was founded. In fact, the very day of the formal UN service founding Israel was memorialized by terrorist attacks in Jerusalem by "peaceful" Muslims. Your notion as to the rightful inhabitants of Israel also ignores the Bible, in which the land was clearly appropriated to Jews by God.

-- Inquirer (Questions@muslim.net), December 28, 1999.

The small Texas P.O. I work in has Bin Laden's mug on the FBI board. It says he is 6'2" to 6'4" and weighs 130 to 150 lbs. His build is described as "thin".

NO KIDDING?!? maybe that's why they cant' find him, he's friggin' 2 dimensional. Kinda tall for an arab too. hmmmmmm

-- MegaMe (CWHale67@aol.com), December 28, 1999.

Inquirer:

You say "assuming" only 10% live in the Mid East.

Well I can see this trying to convince you of anything is going to be a waste of time. Just look at the muslim populations of the following countries and decide for yourself if we can have a discussion based on fact, or you are going to first attribute every fact as my opinion. I don't have time for that.

Most Northern African countries down to about the equator. India (100m+ Muslims among the 900m others) Pakistan Bankgladesh Malaysia Indonesia China (about 300m Muslims among the 1b others) The area covered by the former Soviet Union (100m muslims among the 300+m others)

etc.

However just to indulge on your 1st point.

Do you think we are even going to hear them over here in the West? For crying out loud the large majority of these people are amongst the poorest on earth. They are more concerned about food than helping us see through the fog of our media.

Lets look at your own situation. If you've read my other posts from above, then why is there no outcry in this country that makes it to the front page of CNN about what the Federal Reserve has done to our country, or why does not even one "investigative" reporter look into how Congress passed such unconstituional laws that created the Federal Reserve and what pressure or blackmail was used to coerce Congress? When you can answer that you *may be* then entitled to ask your question of people in far more dire circumstances than yourself to do the same.

Furthermore you obviously missed the whole point of what I said in point 3 (which is probably why you had to pass a remark there) when you say "the barbarism by the 10%". Just because 10% live there that doesn't mean that those 100m are barbarians. There are just handlful of people that are such. Just as in Ireland, are you going to equate all Irish as being members of the IRA etc? 99.999% of those in the Mid East are just normal people like you and me with families. You need to get a perspective on life my friend. Its ignorance like yours that gets the world in trouble because you soak up any sort of non-sense fed to you without thinking. What was it that was said by an American tycoon once, oh yes I remember: "Never underestimate the stupidity of the American public".

As for the other points, as I said, I an debate them till I'm blue in the face with you but it will be a waste of time if you can't even conceed the first point about the number of Muslims in the world which is a fact accepted even by our clergy, the Vatican, our government assessments of the populations etc.

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 28, 1999.

Spectator,

Do you have trouble with English? Half of your response to me dealt with a recitation of demographics, when I assumed you were correct that only 10% of Muslims live in the Middle East.

I didn't see you attempt to answer my question about where is the outrage from the 90%?

Also, you chose to ignore my fourth point. You will never convince me unless you give me facts and answer my questions intelligently. I'm still waiting.

-- inquirer (Questions@muslim.net), December 28, 1999.

So far, an impartial observer would say that 'inquirier' wins this mini debate hands down.

In my own area, when a 14 yo boy was murdered by Muslim extremist thugs, and that that murder was witnessed by at least 60 other Muslims, the police are still waiting for just ONE person to come forward and give evidence.

Maybe they don't all commit henious crimes, but their 'code' is that they support their own, no matter what the crime, no matter what the law. To me, that puts them all in the same basket.

-- I don't like lawless people (They're@lawless.com), December 28, 1999.