OK, I figure that 98% of you reading this are highly skeptical that such a link exists. Bear with me. No, I am not talking about some grand conspiracy. I am talking about how in the aftermath of the JFK assassination the big shots in the major media and TPTB made decisions on how to handle major political transitions. These decisions are making it much harding for minority opinions in the power structure to see the light of day. That in turn leads to the universal decision to steer the ship of state right into the iceberg.

I will confess to being a student of the Kennedy assassination. I have over 100 books on the topic. I personally find the evidence of the hand of the espionage establishment on the event. If you are a firm beliver in the single bullet theory and the thesis that Oswald did it alone, I suppose you will have no choice but to trash this thread.

I will not attempt to prove anything about the Kennedy assassination. For the moment, assume that some hard-core nasties in the CIA and other power centers did the dead. After the fact, the major media (the networks and the leading newspapers) had to carry water for this crew by doing its best to maintain the cover story. The major media did not like being in this position.

I now shift my perspective to a book called "VOTESCAM". Buy it from Amazon. It is less than $10. It tells how major elections in America are fixed by a complex linkage between TPTB and the news media. The majot media fix the elections by a very sneaky manipulation of polls. Read the book for the details.

VOTESCAM describes how the system came into being after the Kennedy assassination. The argument is that rather than have people vote on a president that TPTB did not want and have to go through all the expense of killing him and then covering it all up, isn't it all cleaner to just force the election to the person TPTB want?

All this implies a well developed system for working out concensus in TBTB and the major media. This has lead to a closing of ranks and a total lack of any real political discussion on major issues in this country. The closing of ranks amoung the powerful and the lack of any real discussion (plus the fact that most major elections are manipulated) is a leading cause of voter apathy.

I will claim that this closing of ranks of the powerful is a major ingredient in the y2k soup we find ourselves in. No major element of the power structure can break ranks and issue a minority opinion about y2k and open an intelligent discussion.

Some of my friends find that I have a frustrating mix of cynicism and naivete. I am cynical about how our power structure works. I read a vast number of books to learn more about the true levels of power in this country. Yet I still believe in and have hope for individual human beings.

We no longer live in a demoncracy. I feel that the surpression of real political choices in the aftermath of the Kennedy assassination has lead to some unanticiapted concequences. One of these consequences has been that the media has been very quiet about how our ship of state is going right at the iceberg.

-- David Holladay (davidh@brailleplanet.org), December 20, 1999

Answers

David - you may very well be onto something. Haven't read votescam but I believe the author can be heard on www.sightings.com.

For the reasons you've given, if the computers can't be manipulated due to y2k, then there will be no elections in 2000 [and of course, amyriad of other reasons.]

By the way, what dod you make of the Jim Marrs Kennedy book?

Who do YOU belive killed him? The Military Industrial Complex, the Mafia, the Russians or the Brits.

My money is on the Brits.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 20, 1999.

DAVID, We never did live in a democracy in America. Our government was established as a constitutional Republic. We pledge allegance "to the republic for which it stands"

-- Jubilation T. Cornpone (herb01@prodigy.net), December 20, 1999.

I don't want to get involved in the details of the Kennedy assassination. I will say that it was a domestic product. The immediate supervision was hard-core CIA and military types. Issues were Cuba, oil, Vietnam. One major issue was that the Kennedy money was a home-grown product (the family fortune was not cross-linked into the Rockefeller etc. money system). This made Kennedy a wide card and not trusted by TPTB.

The point of my post was to talk about how a mechanism for obtaining consensus within the power structure may have developed, and a mechanism for enforcing it on the people having nothing to do with y2k. For there to be a positive response to y2k, we needed an open airing of issues. Hopefully, we can stay on that aspect of my thread.

Perhaps we can start a separate forum on the Kennedy assassination if that is what people want to debate.

-- David Holladay (davidh@brailleplanet.org), December 20, 1999.

Are you telling me that both Bill Clinton & Jimmy Carter, governers of small southern states (and no one even knew their names) were the choice of TPTB????

NOT!!!

-- RJ (LtPita@aol.com), December 20, 1999.

Don't be a doofus, Andy, it was obviously the French. Greenpeace boats, south sea atolls, high class prostitutes (sorry, princesses), they just blow 'em all away without a qualm. ;p

-- Servant (public_service@yahoo.com), December 20, 1999.

Servant - there is a reason why the British SIS may have been[were] involved. Do a little research, you may find out the background to the rumours going around.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 20, 1999.

Well, just a year or two into the Bush administration, a friend told me that Klintonoff was going to be our next pres., that the fix was in. At the time, I had never heard of our august leader, so I laughed it off.

-- paranoid (about the@govt.com), December 20, 1999.

For those that don't believe conspiracies of such a grand scale are possible, look at the court ruling last month that legally proved the King assasination was not the work of the individual named James Earl Ray. Yet much of the population still believes this yarn.

-- (@ .), December 20, 1999.

RJ, it is obvious that you are not well read on the subject. Every president and I mean EVERY president has been chosen by the ESTABLISHMENT including Carter and Clinton. Carter was a pawn of David Rockefeller. Rockefeller was attracted to Carter while Carter was govenor of my state, Georgia. Even though Carter was only a governor of the State, he was a very high profile proponent of human rights. He believed that the only way human rights could be addressed was through the United Nations. The new world order (Bushs term) crowd made up primarily of International Bankers birthed the UN back in the 40's after their League of Nations failed to bring about their one world government. There plan is a one world government, religion and economy. Carter was the one who gave away the Canal Zone...US property not Clinton. Carter has plans to be down there at the official giving over ceremonies...not Clinton. Carter is a closet communist as is Klinton. IF you are really interested in this subject, there are dozens of books out there...but dont go to Waldenbooks because you wont find them there. Oh by the way, the media...all of it is owned and controlled indirectly by these same folks that control our government and their PAWNS. you know something is WRONG when Allen Keyes, the black candidate for the Republican party for president, is not even given consideration by the media and yet he is the ONLY candidate who has come out, in the debates, as being pro family, pro American, pro constitution, anti WTO etc. He is totally dismissed and doesnt have a snowballs chance in Hades of becoming President even though he would make the best president (in my humble opinion) because he would be dangerous. They actually choose the two candidates for each party so that we can "elect" the president of "our" choice. They will accept either one because they both belong to them.

Does this have anything to do with Y2K? Probably...they are good at creating a crisis and then manageing it. Not that this Y2k is their invention but they will take advantage of it to further their agenda. you can bet on it!!!

-- Paul Revere (patriot@GodblessUSA.com), December 20, 1999.

We no longer live in a demoncracy.

Actually, "demoncracy" is quite a good label for our current Republicratic "system". I know it was a typo, but it fits well just the same!

-- Steve Heller (stheller@koyote.com), December 20, 1999.

Why speculate as to weather the "democratic" process is rigged or not. Lets look at what those in the know say about one particular instituion and its iron clad control over America: the Federal Reserve Banks.

For those of you who have not seen my posts and do not understand what the unregulated, unaudited, unaccountable private institution (which has nothing more to do with the Federal Government than Federal Express) known as the "Federal" Reserve is all about, and at the risk of repeating my self, onnnee moorrre time, (as you will see this issue is at the core of EVERY other issue and is without a doubt THE most critical issue, period), just look at the following irrefuatable facts about what the Federal Reserve is.

Not believing these facts would be difficult to do unless you are willing to refute decades of Congressional Records, many court cases and testimony from prominent people and be able to demonstrate the Framers of the Constitution, Jefferson, Jackson, McFadden and many luminaries from Americas past were all fighting some fantom and that text of the actual laws which were passed by congress concerning the Federal Reserve are all bogus.

FYI, as you mention David, Kennedy was not part of the money power and in-fact I have read had begun the issue of Treasury Notes (i.e. a true United States Government currency as opposed to the Federal Reserve Bank notes currently used as the US currency) and had had $4B issued which would mean the beginning of the end of the Federal Reserve had the process been allowed to continue.

Federal Reserve/European Banker Families have:

a) the power to get congress to pass an unconstituional law that gives them the sole power to print the "US" dollar (really the Federal Reserve dollar which the US uses as its currency). The Constitution strictly states that only Congress shall have the power to coin money.

So hideous is the Federal Reserve Act that it fully realized the Constitutional Framers worst fears.

You may be surprised to learn that the Federal Reserve is the fourth central bank the United States has had, the previous three having crashed in inevitable raging inflation and widespread economic disaster. So clearly did our Founders understand and fear worthless paper money forced on the public by legal tender laws (precisely what we now have) that they filled the proceedings of the Constitutional Convention with statements of their horror of it. Americans today, deprived of hearing such truth, need to listen to their words:

* George Mason of Virginia: I have a mortal hatred of paper money.

* John Langdon of New Hampshire: I would rather reject the whole [Constitution] than grant the new government the right to issue fiat money."

* George Reed of Delaware: The right to issue fiat money would be as alarming as the mark of the beast in Revelation."

* Thomas Paine: The punishment of a member of Congress who should move for such a law ought to be death."

b) the power to get congress to pass a law to allow them to remain private and unregualted, unauditable accountable to no one and pay no tax even though they are a private organization.

c) the power in 1862 to force the Congress to pass a law that states that the US government should not accept its own currency on import duties it levies on its own citizens and that the US government must accept payment of its Bonds in paper currency but pay interest to the bond holders in gold. Effectively they have the power to make the US Government announce to the world we don't think our currency is good enough for these two items and only gold should be used. Guess where they had to buy the gold from to pay the interest on the original debt. Guess where the importers had to buy the gold from to pay the duties. Guess who got all the gold back when the government paid its interest on its bonds. The bankers who bought the bonds in the first place.

d) The power to cause the US debt to go from $1B in 1913 when the Fed was set up to $24B by the late 20's. How? Because the Federal Government must borrow money simply to keep the currency in circulation. Ever heard of anything so stupid. Yet that is what has been going on since 1913. Ever wonder why the debt keeps growing. It is mathematically not possible for it be paid back.

e) the power to bring a sitting president (Woodrow Wilson) to his knees and state after he signed the Federal Reserve Act to state:

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

f) McFadden states in his address to the House of Respresentatives at the height of the Depression:

"Mr. Chairman, we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks.

"Thirteen months later, that promise was broken; and the Wilson administration, under the tutelage of those sinister Wall Street figures who stood behind Colonel House, established here in our free country the worm-eaten, monarchical institution of the "King's Bank," to control us from the top downward, and to shackle us from the cradle to the grave.

"One of the greatest battles for the preservation of this Republic was fought out here in [President] Jackson's day, when the Second Bank of the United Sates -- which was founded upon the same false principles as those which are exemplified in the Federal Reserve Act -- was hurled out of existence.

"Before the Senate Banking and Currency Committee, while the Federal Reserve Bill was under discussion, Mr. Crozier, of Cincinnati, said:

'In other words, the imperial power of elasticity of the public currency is wielded exclusively by these central corporations owned by the banks.'

"This is a life and death power over ALL local banks AND ALL BUSINESS. It can be used to create or destroy prosperity, to ward off or cause stringencies or panics.

"Every effort has been made by the Federal Reserve Board to conceal its power. But the truth is that the Federal Reserve Board has usurped the government of the United States.

"It controls everything here; and it controls our foreign relations. It makes or breaks governments at will."

The Bottom Line is the Fedeeral Reserves controls the country. If the government wishes to do X, and the Fed doesn't agree, X will not be done. If the Fed wants to do Y, the government will comply else the Fed will induce a financial crisis that would get the government thrown out. End of story.

This is called power. This is the power to dictate the American Government. This is the power to have the full resources of the American Government at your disposal to do with as you please. Do not assume for a moment that this power will be foresaken for anybody any time soon.

This power has been enjoyed be these Banker Families since 1694.

In 1694 William III was involved in a war with France. He needed money and he needed it in large quantities. The British coffers were empty so he asked for vast loans of money from a super-rich Englishman named William Paterson and some of his wealthy friends. Paterson and his friends were perfectly agreeable to the loan providing they were allowed to do two things:

1.Set up a privately-owned bank to be called the Bank of England.

2.Receive authority from the king to issue their own bank notes or certificates as the official legal tender of England.

Everything else that you hear and see in the news is just a distraction to keep your attention away from the real worry: The Federal Reserve. You are slaves of the Federal Reserve through your taxes which go to pay them interest and through their control of inflation. They require you to pay taxes so they can collect interest. They require the IRS for this. The IRS requires Social Security for this as that is how they have juridiction over you. Guess what? Everybody knows Social Security is the only government agency that has been taking y2k seriously and has been working on it for 10 years. Ever wonder why? Its because they won't let their jurisdiction and control fail.

In 1862 the Bank of England/Rothschilds (do not be deceived by name, "Bank of England"; Bank of England was/is a *private* bank) issued and distributed to American banksters a document, The Hazard Circular, quoted in part below:

"Slavery is likely to be abolished by the war power, and chattel slavery abolished. This, I and my European friends are in favor of, for slavery is but the *owning of labor*, and carries with it the *care of labor*, while the European plan, led on by England, is that capital shall control labor by controlling wages. The great debt that capitalists will see to it is made out of the [Civil] war must be used to control the value of money. To accomplish this, the Government bonds must be used as a banking basis.

"We are now waiting for the Secretary of the Treasury of the United States to make this recommendation. It will not do to allow greenbacks, as they are called, to circulate as money any length of time, as we cannot control that, but we can control the bonds and through them the bank issues."

Like I said this is called power, the rest is irrelevant and just a distraction to keep your mind busy.

Source links for those who want to read about his themselves:

McFaddeen speech to House of Representatives

The Comming Battle

Book written in 1899 documenting from irrefutable congressional records and laws passed the first 3 attempts to set up central banks since the time of Jefferson and shows the power wielded by the European Banker Families. Makes a Tom Clancy novel read like a kindergarten story.

President Jackson's veto message for the United States Bank

Has anyone else thought this explains all the terrorism/hacker warning?

OT?IF Y2k is such a threat why is gold/silver so cheap

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 21, 1999.