Hi folks,

I spent last evening at a corporate christmas party talking to an MP stationed at Ft. Hood (his girlfriend--a civilian--works closely w/ my husband). I'm typing pre-coffee this morning, and have sore feet from standing in heels all night, playing pool w/ this very nice fellow so I could report back in lots of detail. Hope y'all appreciate my dedication to the cause. :]

I've paraphrased our conversation (actually two conversations) to the best of my ability. Here's what he told me:

He has been in the military for 5 yrs. He participated in recent ops training that took place near Waco, TX. This was the first time he'd ever had training off-base. The exercises were intended to be secret, no advance alert was given to civilians, although the military worked cooperatively w/ local authorities for the duration of the exercises. Most activity was covert (there were helicopters in town that civilians didn't know about), some was more obvious. He was personally stationed on a street corner in full combat gear w/ live ammunition. He said peoples' reactions to his presence were varied: some pedestrians averted their gaze, others asked Qs, some honking of car horns to say hello, some other civilians offered food and the use of washrooms, etc. He found the locals generally supportive.

He said the assignment was to take control of the town by any means necessary, and hold that control. MPs were told to utilize all available means to take charge, because their goal was to protect utilities, roads, and other elements of infrastructure at all costs. Protecting civilians was not part of their job.

I asked him what the target of the exercises was. Specifically, I asked whether it was a general effort to get troops ready to combat cyberterrorism and learn urban warfare for the 21st century. He laughed and said no, it's to get ready for y2k. That launched our discussion.

He told me his unit had received a formal MI briefing on y2k. MPs weren't supposed to be briefed at all. This happened for his particular unit only because his colonel contravened his general's orders on the matter. His colonel (a woman) insisted they be briefed because she was concerned for MPs' abilities to prepare their families and didn't want them kept out of the loop until the last minute. He said they had a formal MI briefing w/ a slide show.

The military will be closely scrutinizing computer perfomance at east coast bases as they roll over into 2000, starting w/ northern Maine. The plan is to respond to failures on an as-needed basis. Based on watching the east coast carefully, his unit will be deployed before the rollover hits TX, but he has no idea where they'll be sent--depends on where problems look most likely.

He said the first thing they'll do is lock up the bases to keep civilians out. The thinking is that civilians will come looking for shelter if things get bad, but the bases are provisioned only for military personnel and their families. Military wants to keep civilians out so MPs can do their jobs w/ out worrying about their own families. Personnel that are presently off-base will be brought onto the secure bases. MPs' families have been told to prepare for "a couple of weeks" of disruption of serices.

Once deployed to their location, the MPs' job will be to "take over the town" (his words). They've been told to do anything they have to do to keep order and control. Anyone causing trouble will be summarily dealt with, but the MPs won't bother well-behaved folks. I asked him about the confiscation of household preps (aka. the hoarding thing). He just gave me a funny look and said, "no! why would we want people's stuff? We have our own." He said he big concern is w/ keeping public order, and if that means that people have to be forcibly kept in their houses, so be it.

He says that in his company MPs are always a bit skeptical of command, but they will willingly follow orders. No perceived conflict there at all. This man does not think the military will be harming civilians, just protecting infrastructure. He hasn't seen any dissent from the ranks over this issue, but he did say that many AWOLs are expected at the rollover.

He didn't know the 'Navy Report' by that name, but he did confirm that 120 cities are indeed targeted, and that Clinton has 50 State of Emergency declarations ready to sign. He described MI as "very nervous" and said "They're scared". The biggest problem is one of resources--they don't have enough troops to cover all areas properly.

I asked him whether they were planning to join forces w/ UN troops. He laughed and said, "we *are* the UN troops--other countries' contributions are so small as to be insignificant." Then he got very stern, and said, "first and last, we look after our own."

I asked about increased troop movements on public highways, and he confirmed that movements were indeed picking up because equipment was being moved into place for y2k. I asked about the 'blue highway signs', and he thought that was goofy. Any signage that gets erected will be temporary, he said, thumped into place on wooden stakes as personnel move through particular areas. He did say that there will be military checkpoints at 50-mile intervals, though, set up to keep track of military personnel and equipment.

He didn't know anything about fields full of white SUVs, but did confirm that there are some white Broncos in use at Ft. Hood.

He stressed that he had no information on nukes or bio/chem warfare, but said that his command was feeling confident that they would be able to manage any terrorist threat stateside. The bigger concern is with chaos resulting from computer failures.

This MP reports for duty on December 28, and says that this is the first possible day for martial law, which will be set in motion only if and when computer failures begin.

Maybe the most interesting thing about our whole conversation was that this very kind, intelligent MP was profoundly DGI. I asked him how bad he thought it would get, and he said he wasn't very worried personally: he figures there will be some screw-ups at ATMs and that his command is probably over-reacting.

So waddaya think? Rather than flaming me for presenting hearsay, come up w/ some more Qs that I can pass along to this man. He may be willing to answer them.

-- silver ion (addy@the.forumarchives), December 18, 1999

Answers

silver, please find out everything you can from this man on what restrictions on movement by civilians are likely, and when. Controls on communications (including the Internet) and/or purchases of food/fuel/firearms and ammunition/pharamceuticals would be useful as well. Thanks for this post.

www.y2ksafeminnesota.com

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), December 18, 1999.

Interesting. I talked to an ex-girlfriend a couple nights ago who was at a party and had a conversation with someone who was just called in to active duty with the NG specifically for the rollover. Her conversation was not nearly as extensive, but she was told that they were going to be downtown (downtown WHERE I'm not saying, not my new home of Chicago)and posted where they can best prevent looting and general mayhem. Reading your post backed that up a bit. Apparently some of the troops will be guarding department stores!

-- Ludi (ludi@rollin.com), December 18, 1999.

Excellent sleuthing, silver ion! Thank you very much for talking with him and posting your findings.

" ... if that means that people have to be forcibly kept in their houses, so be it."

Yep, that's why we're prepared to hibernate. Stay away from trouble!

More or less this is in line with what we've been hearing ... they're gradually coming to realize this may not be a typical stormy weekend, and they're playing it by ear, scrambling ...

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 18, 1999.

silver ion

Please don't put yourself in harms way. This
could be a dangerous mission. I fear for your
safety.

-- spider (spider0@usa.net), December 18, 1999.

A big thank you for the posting. I find this very reassuring. I would much prefer some order to looting, burning and general chaos. Pam

-- Pamela (jpjgood@penn.com), December 18, 1999.

Sounds authentic, I guess, since it's a mixture of confirmation and rebuttal of things we've read here, but, gee, isn't this guy breaking some rules, chatting about these things at a cocktail party, for goodness sake?

-- Incognito (layinglow@thecrib.com), December 18, 1999.

Thanks for the rundown.

Questions--

What exactly is meant by "keep control"?"

What level of force has been authorized for use in "keep[ing] control"?

What level of force are you personally willing to use against civilians?

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), December 18, 1999.

Once again, the MILITARY is designed to play around with these types of scenarios. They GET PAID to make plans to "take over towns" in the event of an emergency. It is their job to be speculative, and theoretical. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if every branch of the Armed Services have postulated about the effects of Y2K and pumped all the data in the data crunchers and made a few war-game type disaster plans.

This does not mean that any of this stuff will happen. And just because the MILITARY sits around talking about MILITARY issues, doesn't mean that we should be concerned. Once again, they get paid to think of off-the-wall stuff. If there isn't any massive land invasion going on somewhere in the world these people don't have anything better to do with their budgets.

Give this "covert-military-op" stuff a rest already. Number one it's just not going to happen, and number two, it's OBVIOULSY not very covert now is it? So drop the conspiracy news letters and let's get back to reality, not theory.

-- Oxymorons --- (army@intel. and airplane "food"), December 18, 1999.

Let's see . . . what do we now know? 1) The person is stationed at Ft. Hood. 2) He has a wife working in civilian job. 3) He was off- duty last night. 4)He had ops training in Waco recently. 5) He is an MP. How long (if your post is true) do you think it will take before he is reprimanded, or, worse yet, placed under some sort of house arrest?

I hope you changed some things in your post to protect him.

Bob

-- Bob (bob@bob.com), December 18, 1999.

silver ion, your story has a much higher level of credibility than others I've seen. Such as concluding that the blue highway signs are a tool for UN forces come to impose the New World Order, when the signs are obviously put out to improve the odds of dispatching emergency equipment to the correct spot when someone calls on their cell phone.

No, I don't believer that there will be a preemptive declaration of martial law (just-in-case declaration). But I would believe that plans have been drawn up and that troops will be on alert and standing by on their bases in the event that something really does happen. But I do believe that if significant trouble develops that some sort of martial law will be declared or even a "state of emergency" or a simple curfew.

As far as passing along information of this type, I have heard some credible bits of information but am reluctant to post it and name names to avoid repercussions to someone who believed they were in a private conversation. Also reluct to pass the info along anonymously due to the lack of credibility. Unfortunately there are those make up stories like the Wal*Mart truck filled with martial law signs.

I've decided to keep my own eyes and ears open and apply reasonability tests to the information that comes through them. Also try to recheck any conclusions to make sure that they are not colored by my own expectations.

My guess as to what really will happen is that on around the 29th the herd will move and grocery store shelves will be picked clean. But I think that situation will be manageable on a local level and your MP friend will spend the rollover at Ft. Hood.

Mikey2k

-- Mikey2k (mikey2k@he.wont.eat.it), December 18, 1999.

The government knows the full effect to come. Stuart Rodman reported there is no such thing as compliant. Forget compliancy. What we really have is bandaids and new systems which by the way have not been tested. We to have a fix on failure mode that is why the bunker, the military, presendential orders, FEMA, FBI paranoia and the rest. Most of the data reported is self reporting and testing of changes or new equiptment is not being done period. They know as we know that there wasnt enough time. So they gerry rigged, stalled for time spent some of what they claimed but came to a decision not to do any more long ago that nothing more was forthcoming. There was no silver bullet and they knew it.

Secrecy at its finest.

-- Susan Barrett (sue59@bellsouth.net), December 18, 1999.

Tom,

That's easy...ALL FORCE NECESSARY to do the job!!!

DECEMBER 28th AGAIN...BALLOON GOES UP!!

-- Z (Z@Z.Z), December 18, 1999.

Silver Ion, I know you from Bok's chat room and you are one fine person. So any "Heads Up" that comes from you is very much appreciated. There is that Dec. 28th date again. To me it is common sense for the military to have plans in place for protecting their own and controlling chaos due to Y2K. I hope you keep posting any new info from this man that you receive. I for one am listening!

-- Debi (LongTimeLurker@shy.com), December 18, 1999.

Bob,

I was thinking the same thing about this guy. There is no doubt that people in high places read this forum.

People must thing before they post on here. Silver Iron should have had her coffee first. Someone could be in deep shit!

-- (Concealed@myPlace.com), December 18, 1999.

Checking on items in the posting. Please see: http://www.hood-pao.army.mil/89thmpbde/89key%20leaders.htm The commander at the 89th MP DBE at Fort Hood is a female.

-- zeaal (do-dah@lurkingandsearching.com), December 18, 1999.

Siver Ion, go read this before reporting anything else. ,p> Attention .mils: Read about this new policy before posting defense related Y2K info.

-- (have@care.mil), December 18, 1999.

Thanks Silver Ion, it is posts like these that are extremely valuable.

The Polly/Trolls come out of the woodwork when they read this stuff. They use any and all scare tactics they can dream up, pay NO attention to them. They are "Running Scared".

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), December 18, 1999.

They don't have time to get down on some MP for mentioning some generic contingency stuff. It's all gonna be real obvious real soon now. Everybody so fraidy to say anything, just perpetuates the dark cloak over all things Y2K.

-- no time left (to@fuss.muss), December 18, 1999.

spider, Bob, concealed, have@care:

Just so you know, these conversations were in no way private; others were listening in and contributing to the discussion, and I was quite explicit in telling the MP that I post to this forum. He certainly had ample opportunity to ask me to keep the info quiet, and I would have respected such a request. Instead it was rather the opposite: he didn't seem to think that filling me in was a problem. Kudos to his colonel, I might add, for making the effort to prepare her people in a responsible way.

-- silver ion (me@culpa.ok), December 18, 1999.

silver ion,

That is well and good but you should take
care in continuing this research as MI could
get involved.

Ray,

I hope you weren't refering to me as a
Polly/Troll :-'

-- spider (spider0@usa.net), December 18, 1999.

I've grown up near Camp Pendleton. I live and work here, nearly 10 minutes from the base. Yesterday, as I was pulling into the parking lot of my place of employment, I noticed two HUGE tank coming toward me. I had to remove my sunglasses and squint, I mean these were massive. They had what looked like missile launchers on the top (as you can tell, I don't know much about tanks). In all my years here, I have never seen this type of equipment off-base or coming through town. I mean, it really made me nervous. I kept watching as long as I could, as to see which direction they were heading. They got onto the freeway going north (toward El Toro MCAS perhaps?. I think this MP story is entirely possible.

-- Sis (i be@nervous.com), December 18, 1999.

silver ion has a long, consistent history of being a credible regular on both this forum and Bok's chat room. I have absolutely no doubt she is reporting a factual encounter.

What I find interesting about this conversation is that the MP said they had a formal MI briefing w/ a slide show, after which he said he wasn't very worried personally. I would guess from this that there was nothing alarming in the briefing, and that this exercise is consistent with prudent contingency planning.

P.S. - spider0@usa.net, are you the poster formerly known as "spidey"? If so, glad to see you're still here.

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), December 18, 1999.

RUOK,

Spidey was/is another arachnid. I think
that he has given his farewell.

-- spider (spider@usa.net), December 18, 1999.

Good job, Silver Ion. Now go soak those tootsies.

-- Lurkess (Lurkess@Lurking.Net), December 18, 1999.

Thanks Silver Ion for your hard work! If you have second thoughts of having posted this, you can have sysops del of course.

For anyone who missed the Fusion Center article, here is a paste of part, with the url:

DoD Uses New Information Technology to Battle Y2K

By Paul Stone American Forces Press Service

ARLINGTON, Va. -- To be a guest in the Arlington Institute's "fusion center" here feels much like being a guest on the bridge of the Starship Enterprise. Both are futuristic in substance and style and both offer a glimpse of uncharted territory. But unlike the Enterprise's make-believe view of the stars and planets, the view from the fusion center is a map of Earth surrounded by hundreds of key words that dance about in a verbal minuet. The center is in the forefront of the information age. It gathers data from literally thousands of sources throughout the world, synthesizes it and uses it to predict people's behavior. The ultimate goal is to understand how society might react to regional or global events, such as terrorism, political instabilities or even Y2K, director John Petersen said.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Nov1999/n11011999_9911011.html

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 18, 1999.

Texas? Hmm, take a look at this article and PICTURES (the proof) that is based on a live video broadcast by a reporter in Texas who stumbled upon a military operation (complete with black helicopters) that halted a greyhound bus and searched it.

Martial Law is here

http://www.infowars.com/martiallaw.html

------ EXERPTS FOLLOW ----------

While everyone has been wondering what excuse the Federal Government will use to declare Martial Law, we have been living under it. For years, right here in Texas, US Army soldiers have been performing civilian law enforcement duties off base.

According to a US Army SWAT Entry Team Leader with the 38th MP unit at Fort Hood, the City of Killeen has been using the Fort Hood SWAT Team to serve warrants and arrest civilians for at least the past two years. Apparently, Killeen does not have a SWAT Team of its own, so the city uses US Army soldiers instead. The Army, for its part, seems only too happy to oblige.

All of this came to light Wednesday morning when Mike Hanson, cameraman for documentary film maker Alex Jones, spotted a bus being searched on a blocked-off stretch of the feeder road along I-35 in the middle of Temple. Mike was on his way to Waco with a load of building materials for the new Mount Carmel Chapel. With his camera ever at the ready, Mike got off at the next exit and swung back around to film the incident. Other local media were already at the scene of what appeared to be an ordinary police search.

The subject of the search was a Greyhound bus that was stopped at 5:00 AM on its way from Dallas to San Antonio in response to a bomb threat. Lt. Best, the Temple police officer responsible for the media, immediately approached Mike and informed him that this was a military operation being conducted by the EOD group from Ft. Hood. Lt. Best requested that Mike not film the faces of the soldiers performing the search, but film them from the back only. Mike said that we did not have secret military police in this country, and wanted an explanation as to why these soldiers could not be filmed. Lt. Best responded, "They do stuff like this and they just don't want the people to know what they've done."

Lt. Best outlined the search plan to Mike. First, the bus had been cleared by a bomb-sniffing dog and the passengers had been removed to a remote location. Currently, the passengers were being returned in small groups to retrieve their belongings to be searched. Then, the bus would be searched a final time, and the passengers would be free to board the bus and continue on their journey from Dallas to San Antonio.

(snip)

Two blocks away from the bus, hidden in some woods was a staging area. As Mike was filming, two black Blackhawk helicopters rose above the treetops and flew away. According to US Army official sources, unmarked black helicopters are only used by Special Forces. Were the soldiers that hid their faces part of a Special Forces unit? If so, what unit? Why were they searching a Greyhound bus in Temple, Texas?

(snip)

Over the past several years, the Federal Government has been gradually setting the up the conditions for Martial Law. According to Alex Jones, we are currently in Stage 3 (on a scale of 1 to 10) of the implementation of Martial Law. Martial Law is being disguised under a variety of programs with innocuous sounding names, such as "Resource Sharing", in order to deflect criticism and keep the general populace ignorant of the actual situation.

(snip)

Certainly, this was not an ordinary response to a real bomb threat. At the very least, searching a Greyhound bus alongside a major freeway in a populated area on the busiest traveling day of the year served as a very visible desensitization exercise. Everyone driving through Temple that day could see the military working hand-in-hand with the local police. The absence of publicity in the local media gives the impression that this is a normal, everyday circumstance; nothing to worry about.

(snip)

These recent events are the consequences of legislation such as Senate Bill 1059, Sections 1067 and 1084, and US Code Title 50 Chapter 32 Section 1520A. As stated in an October 7, 1999 article on the CNN website about the new US Joint Forces Command for dealing with domestic situations, "Pentagon officials say the idea behind the change is to give a president options short of martial law to deal with domestic crises."

While covering this breaking story on his radio broadcast, Alex Jones said, "I've been warning people for years not to look for a Hollywood-like proclamation from the Federal Government announcing martial law; look for incrementalism."

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 18, 1999.

Spider, STOP intimidating Silver Ion.

We are American citizens and have a RIGHT to know what is going on with y2k and our safety. We don't need to be intimidated by anyone!!

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), December 18, 1999.

Ray,
I do not intend to intimidate anyone. I only
suggest caution when dealing with intelligence
agencies. I agree that we have a right to know
what is going on. I also applaud those with the
courage and integrity to tell the truth. To assume
that just because you are a citizen of the United
States that you are immune to danger from the
intelligence community is naive. Caution is
warranted. If that is intimidating then so be it.


-- spider (spider0@usa.net), December 18, 1999.

Interested Spectator,

I asked him about the bus incident when we spoke at the party. He just looked confused; it seems quite possible to me that he knew nothing about it.

-- silver ion (not@much.there), December 18, 1999.

Spider,

I will NEVER fear the Military or any other Intelligence agency in this country, I have no need to and neither does Silver Ion.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), December 18, 1999.

Thanks for the information, silver.

Ray: You really need to stop blaming the pollies for posts you don't like. I AM a polly, and I appreciated silver's post.

-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.com), December 18, 1999.

Ray:

Oh yea with misguided blind faith in thy government: wake up and smell the roses (and watch out for the thorns).

Before you committ yourself to such idealistic hopes read my posts in the following threads.

You'll quickly change your mind from the irrefutable evidence from the Congressional records, the Framers, Jefferson, Jackson, McFadden and others.

Do we have any Gold in Fort Knox or not???????

Has anyone else thought this explains all the terrorism/hacker warning?

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 18, 1999.

Silver ion,

Thanks for the info...

Just trying to interpret your MP's statement that the MI types are scared they will not have enough manpower...It seems that if it's just protecting infrastructure...roads, Utilities, etc.,etc. the .mil types have more than enough personnel, and seemingly good will on the part of civilians.

I sense that the Military is just about the only Federal institution still trusted by the populace because it has not been politicized. If there is an attempt to use this Emergency to target the political opposition, things might deteriorate quickly. Perhaps, just perhaps that is why the MI types are "very nervous" and "they're scared", to use your words.

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@ It's ALL going away in January.com), December 18, 1999.

IS, good answer.

I would like to mention a possible clue to look for which might give some insight as to how concerned the military is about a bad Y2K outcome. I was in the Air Force in 1979. Few are aware that in 79/80 this country and Russia were involved in a very dangerous faceoff over Iran, the real target for a Russian invasion. Both sides moved nuclear assets to the area and a high state of alert existed in this country.

MP's stateside were being readied for deployment to Europe to replace MP's there who would be sent to the mideast. To replace the stateside MP's office/admin types were being trained to fill stateside MP functions. If this is happening at Fort Hood and other stateside bases it would be an additional clue. Also might we not expect Airforce and Marine MP training?

-- Ed (ed@lizzardranch.com), December 18, 1999.

FWIW, my guess is that on the 28th Martial Law or something very close to get the troops out will be declared. It makes far more sense to get the troops mobilized then, as it will take a few days to do any way, and keep the situation under control from the beginning rather than wait and see what happens and *then* deploy and *try* and bring the situation under control.

As to weather we will be provided the usual disinformation about what is really going on, I think that will be a given as that is standard miltary protocol. If the Internet is still up, then this could be a very differnt information war than the past. I believe the Internet will be up. If it is not then it would have to have been shut down deliberatly. Remember the whole foundation of the IP technology behind the Internet was designed by the DOD as a way to keep communications running in the event of a nuclear war, as it allows information to be routed autmatically through parts that are not destroyed.

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 18, 1999.

I don't know from nuttin'.....but on Channel 9 out of Orlando this past week they have been doing a y2k thing on the 5 pm news. It has been pretty up front and a couple of nights ago, they told of the role of the National Guard during y2k. Had charts showing how they would be deployed. Will be troops in place in Tallahassee, Jacksonville, Tampa and 5 groups in Orlando. Orlando will be the hdqtrs and will deploy the troops from those locations. That is just for North and Central Florida. Have no idea what they are doing down south. Taz

-- Taz (Tassi123@aol.com), December 18, 1999.

I live in Waco and saw the military activity for myself. I just didn't know what it was at the time.

Thank you silver ion.

When people go into the military they swear to uphold and defend our Constitution. That's the way I like it.

-- mommacarestx (nospam@thanks.com), December 18, 1999.

I'd be amazed and disappointed if such planning were *not* going on. Social unrest (riots, even terrorists) are a valid contingency, and the military is the proper organization for making (and if necessary, carrying out) contingency plans against them. Someone in government has a clue, and that's a good sign.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), December 18, 1999.

Interested Spectator,

The minute we as a country begin to fear our government or any of their assigns we have given up on our constitution and given into those that would destroy it.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), December 18, 1999.

Anita commented:

"Ray: You really need to stop blaming the pollies for posts you don't like. I AM a polly, and I appreciated silver's post."

Anita, you may want to REREAD this thread and reconsider your comment.

Ray.

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), December 18, 1999.

My god man, can you hear yourself?!?

You just confirmed exactly what I said. You have blind faith.

If what you say is the way we should conduct ourselves, then explain to me why is freedom of the press (which is the freedom to question and investigate the government) right there in the Constitution? Just get rid of it. We don't need the freedom of the press and freedom of speech, we'll just blindly assume those we elect are not corrupt.

I really don't care if you think you should question your government, I am asking you to look at the fact that those you have elected are themselves stating that the things you fear to question (because you think they can't happen) ARE actually happening and that they can't do anything about it!!

Excuse me, but do you ever think for yourself or do you always act like a lemming?

Indulge me here and read the following few quotes from those you have elected, those who wrote the constitution about what the true nature of the Federal Reserve is all about. If you don't agree with what they say below are you telling me that these people are stupid, they don't know what they're talking about, and you know better, and that these, people who are fighting, for you to keep your rights and keep the government as you would like it are suffering from some delusion that you can see clearly through? Give me a break, pleeeaaase.

Federal Reserve/European Banker Families have:

a) the power to get congress to pass an unconstituional law that gives them the sole power to print the "US" dollar (really the Federal Reserve dollar which the US uses as its currency). The Constitution strictly states that only Congress shall have the power to coin money.

So hideous is the Federal Reserve Act that it fully realized the Constitutional Framers worst fears.

You may be surprised to learn that the Federal Reserve is the fourth central bank the United States has had, the previous three having crashed in inevitable raging inflation and widespread economic disaster. So clearly did our Founders understand and fear worthless paper money forced on the public by legal tender laws (precisely what we now have) that they filled the proceedings of the Constitutional Convention with statements of their horror of it. Americans today, deprived of hearing such truth, need to listen to their words:

* George Mason of Virginia: I have a mortal hatred of paper money.

* John Langdon of New Hampshire: I would rather reject the whole [Constitution] than grant the new government the right to issue fiat money."

* George Reed of Delaware: The right to issue fiat money would be as alarming as the mark of the beast in Revelation."

* Thomas Paine: The punishment of a member of Congress who should move for such a law ought to be death."

b) the power to get congress to pass a law to allow them to remain private and unregualted, unauditable accountable to no one and pay no tax even though they are a private organization.

c) the power in 1862 to force the Congress to pass a law that states that the US government should not accept its own currency on import duties it levies on its own citizens and that the US government must accept payment of its Bonds in paper currency but pay interest to the bond holders in gold. Effectively they have the power to make the US Government announce to the world we don't think our currency is good enough for these two items and only gold should be used. Guess where they had to buy the gold from to pay the interest on the original debt. Guess where the importers had to buy the gold from to pay the duties. Guess who got all the gold back when the government paid its interest on its bonds. The bankers who bought the bonds in the first place.

d) The power to cause the US debt to go from $1B in 1913 when the Fed was set up to $24B by the late 20's. How? Because the Federal Government must borrow money simply to keep the currency in circulation. Ever heard of anything so stupid. Yet that is what has been going on since 1913. Ever wonder why the debt keeps growing. It is mathematically not possible for it be paid back.

e) the power to bring a sitting president to his knees and state after he signed the Federal Reserve Act to state:

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

McFadden states in his address to the House of Respresentatives at the height of the Depression:

"Mr. Chairman, we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks. "

"Thirteen months later, that promise was broken; and the Wilson administration, under the tutelage of those sinister Wall Street figures who stood behind Colonel House, established here in our free country the worm-eaten, monarchical institution of the "King's Bank," to control us from the top downward, and to shackle us from the cradle to the grave."

"One of the greatest battles for the preservation of this Republic was fought out here in [President] Jackson's day, when the Second Bank of the United Sates -- which was founded upon the same false principles as those which are exemplified in the Federal Reserve Act -- was hurled out of existence."

"Before the Senate Banking and Currency Committee, while the Federal Reserve Bill was under discussion, Mr. Crozier, of Cincinnati, said:"

'In other words, the imperial power of elasticity of the public currency is wielded exclusively by these central corporations owned by the banks.'"

"This is a life and death power over ALL local banks AND ALL BUSINESS. It can be used to create or destroy prosperity, to ward off or cause stringencies or panics."

The Bottom Line is the Fedeeral Reserves controls the country. If the government wishes to do X, and the Feds don't agree X will not be done. If the Feds want to do Y, the government will comply else the Feds will induce a financial crisis that would get the government thrown out. End of story.

This is called power. This is the power to dicate the American Government. This is the power to have the full resources of the American Government at your disposal to do with as you please. Do not assume for a moment that this power will be foresaken for any body.

-- Intereseted Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 18, 1999.

Interested Spectator commented:

"You just confirmed exactly what I said. You have blind faith."

If your talking about my previous comment I believe you are CONFUSED!!

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), December 18, 1999.

Ray:

Can you read?

You said:

"The minute we as a country begin to fear our government or any of their assigns we have given up on our constitution and given into those that would destroy it."

The only reason you have to question you government is if you fear it is doing something wrong. If you must not fear your government, then there is no need to question it: ergo, blind faith.

If you don't understand why you should fear what is going on, then explain to me why all of America's luminaries I quote do fear what the "Federal" Reserve is and how the government passed laws to allow such a private institution come into existance.

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 18, 1999.

I live in Maine and have for most of my life. I have also covered most of Maine in the work I used to do. Ion Mentioned that a base in northern would be monitored. The only base in northern Maine that I know of was closed several years ago, that was Loring Airforce Base in Limestone. Is there another base that I don't know about?

Duane

-- Duane C. Farrington (buffopps@netzero.net), December 18, 1999.

Solid intel Silver ion...Very nice to get a straigh report. (Then again you always have decent postings) As far as the others, fearing that the info you gave out " 1) The person is stationed at Ft. Hood. 2) He has a wife working in civilian job. 3) He was off- duty last night. 4)He had ops training in Waco recently. 5) He is an MP." This only describes about 400-500 troops in two divisions. Theere is no intel given that could reasonably be tracked back to the provider. Unless silver ion is under constant surveillance by the feds already, then her source will be fine. Again, nice job.

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@aol.com), December 18, 1999.

Duane,

about active military facilities left in Maine after Loring AFB closed.

There's the Air National Guard base at the former SAC base that's now the Bangor International Airport. Then there's Brunswick Naval Air Station, the USAF's Over The Horizon (OTH) Radar stations still located near the former Loring AFB and the Naval Security Groups NSA listening post at Winter Harbor.

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), December 18, 1999.

Just so you know, these conversations were in no way private; others were listening in and contributing to the discussion, and I was quite explicit in telling the MP that I post to this forum. He certainly had ample opportunity to ask me to keep the info quiet, and I would have respected such a request. Instead it was rather the opposite: he didn't seem to think that filling me in was a problem. -- silver ion

Well... after that... he made a clear choice. And... Kudos to his colonel, too.

Many puzzle pieces dovetail with all the Marine Urban Warrior info gleened last spring. (Check the archives... Military category).

May we ALL live... in interesting times.

Thanks silver ion.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 19, 1999.

Silver,

Great post and thank you for the info. I do have to tell you that your source will be known, however. A five year soldier, MP, Ft. Hood, under the command of a female Colonel...not too hard to run down if DoD investigators are interested. The colonel is toast too.

-- Darby (DarbyII@AOL.com), December 19, 1999.

silver ion My son is stationed at Fort Hood, although he is not in the MP's. I am nervous about y2k, as a mother, an dnow I am truely scared. My son recently told me that he cannot come home for Christmas, when until just two weeks ago, that was planned. I guess I can understand why now. Thanks for the info. Please take care. DCAV

-- DCAV (lcav@mindspring.com), December 19, 1999.

Duane, WW: The Over the Horizon installation has been mothballed, but they still have a skeleton crew on duty at the center in Bangor, where the ANG group is based. Bangor is probably the "northern Maine" reference. I was in the "real" northern Maine just a couple months ago, toured Loring in fact. The only .mil activity there now is the Maine Army National Guard refit facility for Hummers.

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), December 19, 1999.

BTW Cash and Carry:

How is Albany looking this week??

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 20, 1999.

RE: .MIL installations in Maine. The other site the .MIL might watch is the Bath Iron Works. Although not a base, per se, it has mucho sensitive assets (or at least pieces of them). There must be at least a small contingent there.

Just thinkin...

-- Little Pig (littlepig@brickhouse.com), December 20, 1999.

Chuck: My source in Albany is still prepping like mad. We've invited him and his family up here for the holidays, but he's decided to try to stick it out down there. He says if it starts to fall apart, he has enough gas to get the family and a big chunk of preps up here. Whether the roads will be open is another matter.

The motel manager who tipped him to the reservations from the Army says she asked around and was told they are part of a Reserve/National Guard call-up for rollover week, which fits with other posts here about armories and Guard units being activated. The armor deployment he mentioned must still be in place, because they haven't reappeared at their regular storage site. Nothing new from the airport. TECH was doing some checking through his father (in-law?), but I haven't seen an update lately.

Bath Iron Works, BTW, has regular US Navy folks there, both officers overseeing ship construction and crews forming to take the finished destroyers and cruisers out to sea. The .mil population goes up and down, depending on ship construction schedules. Brunswick Naval Air Station, about five miles away from Bath, is now an "open base," meaning they don't even have guards at the gates anymore, and the Marine contingent left several years ago. It's still a major P-3 sub hunter base, though. Aside from a small security police detachment (mostly civilian now, I think) there are no trained personnel who could act to maintain public order or do anything else off base.

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), December 20, 1999.

Cash,

Haven't heard anything new from my father-in-law.

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), December 20, 1999.