Do you realize what you're saying? : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Look, I've done my homework on Y2K and I know it won't be a cakewalk. It will very possibly be the widest-ranging and most pervasive disaster the world has ever seen. But, though I fear that is the truth, I really would prefer it not to be. I would love for the U.S. to continue as a world leader and economic power...I don't want the stock market to crash. Simply put, I'm hoping for the best for my nation and myself. That is why I am deeply disturbed by those of you who seem eager for the end to come...don't you realize what that would mean? Sure, you may see the high and lofty brought to their knees, but it will be just (if not more) painful for you and\or your loved ones. Just because you have "prepared" doesn't mean you're ready for your whole way of life to change. It won't be this fun, exciting big event as some seem to think. Why wish for economic collapse, don't you want your children to enjoy all the luxuries you have? I fear many "doomsayers" may be close to the truth (that Y2K is one awful reality), but they are facing it with a perverse delight. I firmly believe EVERYONE should prepare for the worst case scenario. But if you hope for it, please don't act so surprised when people call you crazy.

-- Jared Smith (, October 30, 1999


'Thank God for the rain which has helped wash the garbage and trash off the sidewalks. Someday a real rain will come and wash all this scum off the streets.'

-- Travis Bickle (, October 30, 1999.

Well said Jared.

-- the Virginian (, October 30, 1999.

Jared--you nailed it

-- Lars (, October 30, 1999.

Jared, I perfectly agree....

I would/will/who-knows really miss this easy life I have. But not one thing can I do to change the future of this world, only my future. I choose to do all I can to protect my family in every way possible.

I choose to be the kind of person that sits on the porch and enjoys the beauty of a thunder storm insted of being afraid of it. If it hits our house .... then it does.... not one thing I could have done about it......except have lighting rods in place, applinces unpluged, no kids in the tub, not be on the phone.....etc.

-- bulldog (, October 30, 1999.

Jared, complete agreement. This Forum is going thru Desperate Exhaustion -- get it over with already, let it be a bad dream, wake us up, enough! You'll see a lot of emotional reactions & gallow humor, frustration, short wicks.

The trolls are going nuts too [more than usual]. There's enough hard evidence below the surface to keep them glued here; but appearances are silky smooth, life as easy normal cornucopia. Enough in the stew now to drive everyone bonkers.


-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (, October 30, 1999.

Jared: IMHO I doubt that any rational person would disagree with you. Please do not assume because the more verbose posters say "down with the system" that a majority of those who frequent this site necessarily agree with that point.

-- Neil G.Lewis (, October 30, 1999.

Jared: Agree!! My company has been awarded several million dollars in contracts for next year. It will be a tremendous growth year for us in 2000. We are all dizzy at the way our work is being received and appreciated. And, we have hired several new people to handle the work load. Our business is growing and allowing other families ti increase their "lots" in life. I am one of those who has prepared for the worst--2 years supplies for 24 people--and pray on a daily basis that my wife and I can laugh about this every time we take another can of tuna, span, ham, beef, turkey, chicken, beans, rice, brownie mix off the shelf and eat. I for one am going to see a many fold increase in my "lifestyle" if Y2K isn't bad. But if TSHTF, I will be able to focus on the future, rather than focus on my cold, scared, hungry body. I would just assume not "drink from this cup" that's called Y2K either.


-- shepherd (, October 30, 1999.

I'm tired. It's so stressfull. I'd rather be planning a bright future. But I don't know what that will look like until after we are well into the new year.

-- Itol D. Youso (, October 30, 1999.

I agree with you Jared, any sane person would. But having been on this forum for quite a while, I can't label any vocal posters as "doomsayer" who hopes for the collaps of society. The only person I am certain hopes for this is Gary North, since he's stated it himself. What I see though, are some people that are very vocal and blaring their trumpets to convince others that Y2K will be a lot more than a bump in the road, and many of those see through the smoke and mirrors of TPTB, alerting the rest of us of their games. They are in my eyes proponent for change and encourage action to change what they view as bad, but I don't see them as wishing for the collaps of society. Perhaps some do indeed wish deep down for such to happen, but as with Gary North, the fact that they wish it won't change the code. What will happen will happen.

-- Chris (#$%^&, October 30, 1999.


Sorry, I'd like to join in on this little cheerleading session, but unlike these other sheeple, I totally disagree.

I want this techological clusterfuck that we call society to self- destruct, so that we can once again appreciate the things that matter most in life without having to buy them.

The reason that people are so in love with the status quo is fear, just plain simple, totally unjustified fear of change. What is there to be afraid of? We know that our ancestors survived everything that life offered them, but have we ever seen a species survive a nuclear winter? Why do humans always want more "things", when everything we need is within ourselves?


-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), October 30, 1999.

Oh well, add *V* Hawk to my list along with Gary North.

Wondering if more will come out of the woodwork now.

-- Chris (#$%^&, October 30, 1999.

Thank you Catsy, I feel honored to be considered of the sam intellect as Gary North, a true re-creationist. What you apparently do not understand is that life is a creative process, like painting a picture. As many of the best artists will tell you, they often have to destroy a "bad painting" in order to create a better one, because it is too easy to become comfortable with an unsatisfactory solution to reality which inhibits further creativity. This "woodwork" you say that we "crawl out of" is the woodwork of life's true realities, and wood is a lot more real than any of your silicon and plastic toys.


-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), October 30, 1999.

Know what I'm afraid of, Hawk?

Answer: You!

I agree with Jared. I like the world the way it is today. I don't want to see it change.

-- Lynn Ratcliffe (, October 30, 1999.

There seems to be a number of people who share Hawk's irrational vision of the "system" somehow morphing into something that showers him with free goodies while allowing him to remain as ignorant as he is. Spiritual fulfillment is fine, but doesn't blend well with hunger and disease.

-- Flint (, October 30, 1999.


And I my dear, am afraid of YOU!

Someone who would advocate the destruction of her own children or grandchildren in a nuclear holocaust as long as they can continue to have their television sets and barbie dolls. That is scary.

"I like the world the way it is today."

Do you REALLY like the way it is today? If so than you are a minority on this forum because every other post is someone bitching about all the things they hate about the world today, yet they are AFRAID of change.

"I don't want to see it change."

WHAT are you so AFRAID of? I really would like a good answer to that question.

Gary and I are talking about a change for the BETTER. Do you really think that your children will die if they don't have their TV sets and Big Macs every day? Are YOU going to die if you have to walk rather than drive your death machine? I'd be willing to bet your children would be a lot happier if they were able to appreciate the simple beauty of life, and they wouldn't end up some day walking into a school with an AK-47 and wasting their classmates. How far out of control do you think this current version of society will be able to go before it destroys ALL of us. Isn't there some point where we should say "it is time to stop this insanity NOW"? Not next year, not tomorrow, but NOW!?


-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), October 30, 1999.

*V* AKA @, please see my reply in the thread

Yes I realize what I'm saying....

I've learned that wishing can be very powerful, and if one is not very careful, one will get what one is wishing for anyway. One must know and understand exactly the consequences of what one is wishing for.

-- Chris (#$%^&, October 30, 1999.


As I informed all the regulars yesterday with this post msg.tcl?msg_id=001fYE

I decided to change my name due to too much confusion with the old one. I am no longer to be referred to as @ because I do not want to be associated with some of our new trolls. Thank you.


Also, if you want to use my face, don't forget my head too.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), October 30, 1999.

Well *V*, you refered to me as Catsy, which is evident I don't want to be refered by anymore either. I mentioned your old alias so you knew I knew who you were too.

-- Chris (#$%^&, October 30, 1999.

I hope this thread continues. I find this topic interesting. The other day I was thinking about the Industrial Revolution. It happened--what? late 1700's, early 1800's? And we have come so far, so fast since then. Sometimes I wonder if we aren't trying to recreate Eden. Where everything was perfect and everyone was happy. Just because we are smart enough to figure out steam power, then coal power, then electric power, then computer chips, etc, doesn't mean we are going to magically be happier, more fulfilled. Maybe the closer we get to Eden, the less happy we are. Which doesn't mean that the inverse is true (that the farther away we get from this "perfect" world, the less happy we are), just that all our technology does nothing for our souls.

At the same time, I realized the irony. As I was coming up with this theory, I was heating my frozen dinner in the microwave and enjoying some tunes from my CD player.

I think I speak for a lot of people who aren't exactly very comfortable with where we are headed (without Y2K) and at the same time, we benefit from the advances. I so feel for kids, though. My 8th grade class was reading a historical fiction set in the late 1600's and they honestly could NOT imagine feeling happy and content by just taking a walk and enjoying nature. One student even called that "freakish". They felt sorry for kids back then because, in their words "they had nothing to do". I argued that they did indeed have plenty to do (mostly work) and when they DID rest it was a complete and total rest, because their body was tired and when they ate, food probably tasted so much better because they were truly hungry and when they played it meant soooo much more to them, because there were so few opportunities to play. Speaking of these things and looking at these kids, most of whom have never known a life without instant gratification, I wanted to cry.

I don't want anyone to die, I don't WANT Y2K to be anything! Big zero! Nothing! But I have prepared for the worst. And when you realize something that big might happen, you naturally want to look on the bright side for SOMETHING to keep you going. The bright side, though it might not be evident for quite some time, would be a world without instant gratification (at least for a while) maybe a less overpopulated world (again, I DON'T want anyone to die, but if Y2K is anything more than a 3 or 4, substantial deaths would be inevitable), etc.

Mixed feelings, you know? I really like my life now. Except for this computer, my husband and I have chosen a simpler lifestyle than most of our peers. No cell phone, no DVD player, no cable, only one TV and not many channels w/out cable, no caller ID, etc. Not many of the "toys" most people have. And a simpler lifestyle altogether. I am a teacher and I am really looking forward to my paid summer off next summer and don't like the thought at ALL of it not happening (the pay anyway). But I will deal with whatever happens, good or bad. Isn't that what life is about?

-- preparing (, October 30, 1999.

Sorry Chris, I had not heard anything about you not wanting that name, and thought I had seen it recently. Actually, it was not intentional, but subconsiously ingrained in memory from seeing it for so long next to the "". Sorry, it won't happen again.


-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), October 30, 1999.


If you hate "things" so much, why did you buy a computer? Seems to me you should practice what you preach. I bet you have all the peripherals that go with it.

Got a phone? Got a car? Get rid of all your "things." What a dope.

-- (, October 30, 1999.


And the reason to want the status quo to change, is that a person is afraid of the status quo. It cuts both ways. It's just a question of just what it is that you fear.

-- Bokonon (, October 30, 1999.

People like Hawk are the reason for the existence of so many trolls here. I think that most of us trolls are just normal people laughing at how absurd someone like Hawk sounds.

You're an idiot Hawk and so are most of the rest of the regulars here who don't do anything about this type of idiot spouting this type of nonsense.

What a wacko board this is!

-- I am (just@nother.troll), October 30, 1999.


"Got a phone? Got a car? Get rid of all your "things." What a dope."

You don't know me from Adam you asshole. As a matter of FACT I do NOT own a telephone, and I do NOT own a car. And for your information my life is a LOT BETTER without these things. Come out of your artificial joy and get a GRIP on TRUE happiness asswipe.

Boko, I am,

That is your fear talking. Come back when you are ready to be honest with yourself. It's not easy, and I doubt you have the balls, but the payoffs are worth it.


-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), October 30, 1999.

Even without Y2K, much of the world was headed toward the end depicted in "Atlas Shrugged" (without the hopeful part). Apply normal accounting rules to the U.S. Government's finances; consider what is happening with HIV in sub-Saharan Africa and antibiotic-resistant TB in Russia; think what the Green Revolution having finally run its course ultimately means (Malthus will get the last laugh), and so on.

Let's face it, our leaders have more and more in common with the head honchos in "1984" or Hitler/Stalin/Mao than they do with Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson. (Look up the long version of the definition of fascism sometime.) They believe our lives belong to them. No matter what technology advances are made, it will always be possible for thieves in power to take practically everything that is produced; it is far easier to destroy than it is to create, after all. Not until these points (among others) are (again) held sacred do we have a chance to break out of our trends of immorality and dissolution:

1) Property is sacrosanct. Whether it is land, money, or "things", it is the result of someone's mind and labor. Need is not a claim to one second of someone else's time/labor or one gram of another's property.

2) If you have talent or ability, work hard and long, or make a significant improvement in what has gone before, the rewards are all rightly yours.

2) If you are unlucky, without ability, incapable, lazy, dumb, or simply make a bad decision, the consequences are all yours. (Reread #1 if you have forgotten it.)

3) All exchanges, interactions, and contracts by responsible adults must be voluntary. (Yes, this rules out income taxes and conscription.) If someone wishes to give you a handout of their own earned property, that is up to them, and no one can say it is not their right. Likewise, if they choose not to, no matter your situation, no one can say it is not their right.

4) Thinking occurs only in one brain at a time, and numbers believing something is only a fair guide at best to the truth. An honest human should never change his mind simply because many others beg or threaten him. If they convince him, that is another story. Likewise, there is really no such thing as "society", especially in the context of "society thinks this", or "this confiscation is for the good of society". No, it would be for the benefit of some individuals at the expense of other individuals, who had force used on them to bring about actions they would never see as in their best interests, e.g., were self-destructive and thus anti-life. "Society" does not think anything; some people think such and such, while others do not. This does not meant that there is no objective reality, for there assuredly is; the path of logic is to increasingly discover it.

5) Logic is defined as the process by which reality is understood. If you "feel" that you are right, thinking that what your preferences are has any effect upon reality, when the evidence is clear-cut against this, you have arguably renounced your right to be considered to be as an adult capable of living outside an institution.

6) The INITIATION of force is immoral and indefensible. The use of force, even violence, in self-defense against those who initiate the use of force is not only totally moral, but practically mandated in many such situations.

7) As government is supposed to have a monopoly on the use of force, its primary task is to defend its citizens against the initiation of force by others. This includes maintaining a military (to defend against the use of force by foreign powers), and a police/judicial system (to protect citizens against attempts by other citizens to use direct force or fraud {another kind of force} against them). Throw in a VERY few possible activities such as maintaining a national highway system, promoting exploration of space and basic scientific research, and there isn't much else for gov't to do that isn't either immoral, causes more harm than it helps, or both. A constitutional amendment that not one bit of property or money can ever be conveyed by gov't action to any group or individual, except in fair exchange at market value for goods or services rendered by that group or individual to the gov't (excluding court judgements rectifying direct harm done by the use of force or fraud), would go a long way toward getting this point across.

A few other things would help a lot, like eliminating central banks, going to a 100% gold-based monetary system forever, eliminating most of the government's right to take on obligations (e.g., issue bonds/guarantees), government selling 90% of its land holdings to private citizens, getting government totally out of the direct education business, putting in a policy of disallowing anyone who has held office as a member of either the Republican or Democratic Parties from holding office ever again for a generation or so, etc., but you get the idea.

-- MinnesotaSmith (, October 30, 1999.

sorry, Jared;

a little more history and philosophy is in order;

Minnesota : pretty close; keep on keepin' on!

the fact that so many applaud Jared's premise is proof of the severity of the problem...

c'mon, folks, let's put those thinking caps on a little better and re- read what has been written and analyze it for its content and real meaning

A IS A, and a thing IS itself;

no one WISHES for 'destruction' or 'violence'; but the alternative - slavery - is ALWAYS worse! sad that so few know the difference...

Sure, it's Saturday afternoon, but let's do ourselves a favor and get those chins off our chests and do the Critical Thinking required of a post like this..OK?

-- Perry Arnett (, October 30, 1999.


I think that even the freeway system and space exploration could also be handled by private enterprise since the government always gets way excessive on the budgets for those things. I think national security and legislation are the only things that we need an organized government for since this type of thing would be for the protection of everyone and would have to be voted on by everyone as to how to handle it. Congress and politicians would of course have to be eliminated to put the decisions back into the hands of the people. We would need to set up a "management" staff to follow through with decisions made by the people, but the staff could not be allowed to have any influence on those decisions. And I still don't even consider myself to be a conservative can you believe it? How's that for shredding holes in your stereotypes!


-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), October 30, 1999.

Hawk, you MORON. You bought into the technology "thing." If you're so against all this, why even post here you dope? How do you connect to the internet without a phone line? That shit you spew has to come from somewhere. The phone jack is probably up your ass.

-- (, October 30, 1999.


Hey dickbrain, ever hear of a cable modem? Ask a sysop, they can probably confirm that. The ONLY reason I have cable is for the Net, I don't even have the TV statios turned on. The ONLY reason I have the Net is because it is one of the few technologies we have which is actually worth the trouble, and an unparalleled source of information. I am not in favor of a total destruction of "things", just the stupid and deadly ones you meathead. Is it so hard for you to grasp the idea that in this day and age maybe the fossil-fuel burning automobile is not such a brilliant idea? Maybe like Rush Limbaugh you would prefer to suffocate in nitrous oxides so that you can continue to feed the megalopolis oil corporations since those poor bastards need the money so badly. Brainless imbeciles like yourself are responsible for the deterioration of our society because you would rather let the corporations feed you shit than to find some decent food for your mind.


-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), October 30, 1999.


You are such a simple-minded person. Do you really believe that garbage you spew from your butt? Why do you hate so? Is it because you can't afford the luxuries others have? Do I smell sour grapes?

Like Scud Farkas said to Ralphie, "Cry baby. Cry, cry, cry."

-- (, October 30, 1999.

Hi, Jared.

America will experience severe judgments in the next year, and it will get very ugly.

There is no use pretending America can continue sinning grossly in the sight of the Living God without righteous punishment.

Prepare to go through the fire!

-- Randolph (, October 30, 1999.

Duh, duh, duh, duhmbass,

I have experienced luxuries beyond your wildest wet dreams jerkoff, and they mean nothing compared to the most genuine experiences of which your blind mentality has been deprived.

Go back to your debungy forum now child, they're discussing your favorite subjects: How to sneak into an R-rated movie, how to get someone to buy beer for you, and how to kill your parents in 3 easy steps.


-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), October 30, 1999.

I just read this thread again from the beginning. I now realize that I don't belong in this forum. Bye.

-- Lynn Ratcliffe (, October 30, 1999.

Hey, Hawk, let's talk balls.

Having balls means you're ready to take on what ever comes - status quo or change - and not whining about it, if it doesn't work out the way you wanted it to.

My balls are ready to deal with it, either way.

You presume to much, about the balls of others.

-- Bokonon (, October 30, 1999.

Lynn, this forum is definitely not for the faint of heart, but there's also a great deal of threads that are a lot easier to swallow for newcomers. Try reading each individual thread as its own source for info, rather than as belonging to a specific forum. It helps.

-- Chris (#$%^&, October 30, 1999.

Jared please do not forget that Y2K is a man made problem. It reflects our management of society and brings to light the failings we have created. It is not a natural disaster. The machine is flawed, we built it. I do not wish for others to suffer. I do wish for positive change. What do you hope to see continued in the current trends. Voice recognition software, Dow 20000, Urban sprawl and pollution while the thrid world starves, improved personal organizers, more pornography, more "smart" bombs, more broken families, more weapons of mass destruction, more fee for masturbation centers, illicit trafficking in human organs, more drug additiction, cloned humans, mass sterilizations, genetically engineered suicide seeds which produce no seed crop for the next years plantings, more transgenic animals. 24/7 insipid television. No love of God. Frightened as I am, we did this, we did it with each line of code over 40 years of arrogant living. May God have Mercy on us all and forgive us for our senselessness. I'll say a prayer for you and your family. Say one for me if you think of it.

-- PD (, October 31, 1999.

Guess I'm saying I agree with you, and don't want to come across as saying Y2K will be some sort of fix all for the problems I perceive, I'm not saying that at all, only that like you I hope for the best and maybe one day for a better world.

-- PD (, October 31, 1999.

gee. this is touchy-feely, so emotional and brilliant at the same time.

there may be a tiny percent of the population that takes perverse pleasure in the suffering of others (including some of those who watch 911 and cops and ER shows) but for the most part people are preparing because they want to avoid suffering themselves and because they are being wise. many of those same folks are adding to their preps for others who might not be preparing.

yah, i am looking forward to suffering myself. going to be fun to watch this country go down after we have seen what these socialists have done to it during this last presidency. and i am especially looking forward to watching people suffer and the first thing i am going to do is run around my neighborhood (on which i spent quite a bit of money printing and distributing y2k packets) and make fun of them.

geesh, i think your post is directed at so few people it seems hardly worth posting. it won't take long for those few people to be gripped by the reality of the situation. and it is misinformed posts like this that feed into disagreement and dislike among the sides. we need truth not speculation at this time.

-- tt (, October 31, 1999.

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