ED YOURDON , Chris Columbus, Y2K, and the discovery of America

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

When Cristoforo Colombo left Palos (Spain) in August 1492 he knew he would get to 'India and China' by sailing westward. The expertise he had gained as an experimented Admiral allowed him to understand what others could not. But he wouldn't "show them the money" until he got there and came back with stuff and some 'Indians', of course. He thought he could make the trip in three weeks time.

After three weeks of travel, mutiny arose on the "Niqa" (the smallest of the three ships of his expedition), as disbelief became suddenly rampant with no 'results' at hand. The Pinzsn brothers were instrumental in convincing the sailors that Colombus was right (he was from Genoa, Italy, and he spoke half-broken Spanish) thus postponing the revolt for a while. But the same thing happened some time later at the second ship, the "Pinta", and things were just about to get out of hand when Rodrigo de Triana atop the mast of the "Santa Marma" shouted "LAAAAAAAAAANNNDD" so loud and so convincing that confrontation turned into celebration in all three ships, simultaneously, thus changing the history of mankind.

The analogy with Y2K is striking. Ed Yourdon is Columbus, and he has made some 'mistakes', the most conspicuous of which are that the Jo Anne effect and certain announced trigger dates did not have any apparent consequences. Chris Columbus himself made the mistake of calculating that he would get to 'India' in three weeks. Well, he didn't, but he still discovered America. Was it India? No. Was it China? No. But he still discovered what has turned out to be the most revolutionary discovery of the Millenium, more important for mankind than India and China put together. Was Colombus the very first one to propose the existence of a New World out there? No, the Vikings had actually been there way before him, but the Viking economy didn't count for the powers that were at that time. Still, Columbus discovered America, whatever we made of it. And Ed Yourdon has been the leader of Y2K, whatever it turns out to be, including the dramatic possibility of a New World Order. We have now just passed the equivalent of 'three weeks' time and everybody presses Ed for proof. Still, let's not lose sight of the fact that the matter at hand is Y2K, i.e., the year 2000 problem.

-- George (jvilches@sminter.com.ar), July 22, 1999


I wonder if all you Yourdon flunkies will feel the same way when your ship is sinking with no land in sight and Ed is sailing comfortably into the future on his own little life boat, lined with the money he raised from people who were trusting enough to think that Ed Yourdon is another Chris Columbus.

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 22, 1999.

George has posted a reasoned, thoughtful, innovative piece; the DS post has no redeeming value. Several requests are necessary before a delete can be performed, please regulars, add your votes. Could we please make this an automatic delete of ANYthing this unfortunate person posts?

Sysops: one vote for automatic delete of anything posted by Doomers@suck and any other noms de plume coming from the same ISP.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), July 22, 1999.

Yes, yes! While I am a strong advocate of free speech, that does not necessarily mean we have to suffer the vicious comments from "doomers suck" at this particular forum. It's a waste of bandwidth and time. People we are in the end game, so realize what that means: every day is precious and the results of y2k, for good or for bad, are now locked in place. Please block/delete him. Keeping him just provokes flame wars and nothing useful comes of it.

-- Sure M. Worried (SureMWorried@bout.y2k.coming), July 22, 1999.

Being a "moderate doomer", I'm no DS fan, but I fear censorship is a slippery-slope...

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), July 22, 1999.

I agree,Delete! The Sucker does not make a contribution to or ask reasonable questions of this forum.

-- Roger (pecosrogX@earthlink.net), July 22, 1999.

Good Lord you people are NOT tolerant of opinions that don't match your own aren't you? Delete everything I write on this BB from now 'cause you don't like it?

Okay dokey, where is your Diane to squash the ugly truth when you need her?

(Besides, George posted *opinion*, I posted *opinion*, I guess men are created equal but not everyone has the right to be heard equally. Typical Doomer Disconnect to the n-th degree. If the truth (or anything we don't *like*) hurts, delete it from sight, that is the Doomer Cult Motto)

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 22, 1999.

I might add that Biffy, Debunker, and c.s.y2k never delete anyone no matter where they stand on the issue of y2k. Everyone gets a fair share and a place to voice their opinions. But here? No man, you got to keep tabs on anything that threatens your little (manson) family here.

Well Midwest Mike, where are you when your people need you? They are crying for moderation pardner, isn't it just about time you ran me out of town before sundown?

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 22, 1999.

Just as his last few responses show, DS adds NOTHING intellectually to this discussion, but is expert at creating mini-dramas that waste our time.If I wanted to hear ego and self-serving BS, I would tune into Clinton!LOL... My vote.. give DS the ole heave ho.

-- River (riverwn@aol.com), July 22, 1999.

Dear Mr. Suck:

(1) Sir, what you suggest won't happen simply because it can't happen. Us Doomers sir, we will just eat our mistakes (literally) as we have plenty of good food and supplies for ourselves and our dear ones. That's our advantage. If you sucking pollies are wrong sir, you will suffer greatly instead (die maybe? depending upon circumstances?).

And in the rare event that Ed Yourdon is completely and absolutely wrong (which is obviously not the case, he has done no harm and he will still go on to discover "India and China" that would still be there on the other side of the ocean, in this case meaning the wide respect gained from everyone in his sincere and constructive attempt to warn and help the the world prepare for the probable negative consequences of a technological mistake he has helped to place in the category of "Never to be ever repeated again". This 'India and China' that would await Ed in the rare event that he does not discover some sort of 'America' would necessarily lead to a complete revision of technological development considerations, the establishment of new and revolutionary rules of the game concerning the impact of short term vs. long term business philosophies, a total overhaul of the concept of "bottom line", etc., etc., and many other unforeseens difficult to describe same as Columbus found it difficult to describe what his unknown westward travel would be like or what it would eventually end up revealing or meaning for Western civilization.

Sir, I admire Ed Yourdon and I envy his intelligence, his capabilities, his courage, his common sense, and his patience.

(2) Sir, instead, you suck sir.

Yours truly

-- George (jvilches@sminter.com.ar), July 22, 1999.

Great post George.

I think the DS post (Git, did you mean doomer@suck or dumb shit?) should stay, as it frames the polly mindset so well.

-- a (a@a.a), July 22, 1999.


Opinion can be freely expressed by anyone here positive OR negative with respect to Y2k.

Opinions positive or negative containing personal insults should be deleted.

This means 99% of YOUR postings should be deleted.

-- justme (justme@justme.net), July 22, 1999.

To Mr. Suck:

How are you going to feel when you are out of a job; have no food and no water and Bill Gates is ensconsed on his island safe and secure from the devestation that his technology helped bring about? AND YOU HELPED PAY FOR IT!

-- Nadine Zint (nadine@hillsboro.net), July 22, 1999.

Mark Twain once opined that the good Lord puts everyone on this earth for a purpose, even if it is just to serve as a bad example. Mr. Sucks has now fulfilled his purpose for this forum and should get the boot. Permanently.

-- Peter Errington (petere@ricochet.net), July 22, 1999.

No it's okay guys really. I had the nerve to mock your little tin God Yourdone-fer and you can't stand it.

Well b-o-o h-o-o

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 22, 1999.

The volume of flaming and suck-type posting has increased recently. Don't you wonder why? The statement that the debunkers treat all posters the same is laughable. They may not delete the posts, but they shout and belittle everyone and bask in their self-proclaimed righteousness. BTW, suck, Ed is not my hero, mentor or prophet. I don't allow anyone to form my opinions. I respect him for taking a stand and opening himself up to the abuse he has endured. At least he has the balls to make a coherent analysis, offer an educated OPINION of what might happen, and admit he was wrong.

The debunkers have the luxury of the Jan 1 deadline. They can rant and rave in the meantime. If the worst comes to pass, they won't have to tolerate the gloating of the doomers. Until then, no one can be right or wrong, it's all speculation. It's a real cowardly way to argue, and the debunkers have mastered it.

So, suck, go back to debunkers and worship CPR and tell him what a good little moron you've been. Tell the other four people that post there too. There is so much ass kissing over there, it's pathetic.

Let's hear your predictions "suck". Put your money where your mouth is and tell me what the value of the DOW will be in December. Tell me whether there will be bank runs. Tell me if there will be nuclear accidents, chemical spills, etc. Predict the price of gold in December. Can't do it? What a surprise! Yet this is the type of nonsense you demand from those who GI?

Andy Ray is a pompous windbag who happened to get a thesuarus for his birthday. Poole is now banished to being ridiculed at CSY2K, and is pathetic in his attempts to knock Ed for writing a book and profiting from Y2K, as he practically begs people to visit his sorry website. Decker is jealous of Poole and has submitted his diatribe to Ed so that he too may gain some legitimacy. "As a public figure in the Y2K debate..." BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I think you're overestimating your importance to the human race, sir.

The debunkers are a pitiful group of pseudointellectual morons, and their desperation grows with the release of every GAO report, CIA study and other piece of evidence they are choosing to ignore. DoomersSuck has mastered the art of diverting the real focus of the forum, and thus far this is his only legitimate success.

-- ariZONEa (debunkers_swallow@_._), July 22, 1999.

DSuck has posted a tally-ho over at Debunking so expect the trolls to descend for a feeding frenzy any time. Sorry George, your post is a keeper. Hope the sysop can take out the garbage and leave only the good subject matter.

-- Chicken Big (preparing@means.no.panic), July 22, 1999.

AriZONEa, good post.

We should add this little jewel from Paul Davis at the Bunker, "Ok, all you doomers who lurk over here, I have a question for you to answer. Yes, this is for Old Git/Outings/Squirrel and whoever she is today, and Will Continue and Diane and Ed Yourdon for that matter. I want you all to answer one simple question".

They actually believe that Ed lurks at their slime pit. HAHAHahahaha

-- (chuckling) ((laughing)@them.now), July 22, 1999.

If the Time Bomb 2000 Gestapo starts to censor anyone with a difference of opinion, then this forum needs to fold immediately.

-- speakyourmind (speakyourmind@speak.com), July 22, 1999.

Why doomers.suck expresses nasty idiotic views:

-- he (was@an.experiment), July 22, 1999.

Hey excuse me,

Ed Yourdon = Christopher Columbus?

It is, as they say, to laugh.

Your all idolizing this guy and even though he has failed you again and again, big time. You make him sound like he's the Discoverer/Conquerer of Y2K too, and your noble Saviours to boot. (Hey Will Continue, "noble Savior", ring a bell? off with their...hoods!)

I'm telling you the original post is as funny as they come, I thought the Debunker site needed a laugh.


The analogy with Y2K is striking. Ed Yourdon is Columbus, and he has made some 'mistakes',the most conspicuous of which are that the Jo Anne effect and certain announced trigger dates did not have any apparent consequences

(end snip)

Yeah, my point exactly.We all know how dangerous those un- apparent consequences can be.

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 22, 1999.

What a bunch of hypocrites! Look at the thread George posted just before this one.
ED YOURDON and Flint agree on y2k
Nothing of real value, just a bunch of Flint bashing. And of course, Will Continue chimes in with some low brow name calling.... "worm- eating-weasel".... "panty sniffer".

Gosh, what a poignant discussion. Apply the same standards to doomer trolls, and I'll support the censorship.

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), July 22, 1999.

Please 'flush' Doomer.

-- Wilferd (WilferdW@aol.com), July 22, 1999.

Bob has it right on! Censor the doomers too!

-- YeeeeeeGads (YeeeGads@YeeGads.com), July 22, 1999.

Mr Suck,

I didn't need Ed Yourdon as a "god" or anything. I worship G-d, not man, not Bill Gates (or Bill Clinton).

I "GOT IT" because I live in a major city where the Mayor and City Council even now are playing the 'emergency measures/new downtown holels/taxpayers expense/sued by public interest groups' politics as usual, all the while the water and sewer systems won't be fixed 'till Christmas, leaving a WHOLE WEEK for testing!!!

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@It's ALL going away in January.com), July 22, 1999.

Leave DS alone and quit wasting your time on his type. DS's always good for a tsk-tsk, and s/he'll make funny reading when the dust has settled.

Censorship is tricky, suffers from scope creep, and is not needed.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), July 22, 1999.

Clean up html, perhaps?

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), July 22, 1999.

Delete,Doomer sucks

-- Daryll (twinck@wfeca.net), July 22, 1999.

clean up NOW! (??)

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), July 22, 1999.

Help Gayla. Two tries and I'm done. we're all in the center again and I can't seem to clear it. c

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), July 22, 1999.


Please don't eat your supplies, even if they are mistakes. Now that you've learned to live a prepared lifestyle, keep being prepared, the WILL be another crisis of some sort. Maybe a major depression in late 2000.

-- walt (walt@lcs.k12.ne.us), July 22, 1999.

Oh, and now she (WC) calls someone with the handle "speakyourmind", "spewyourmind". Can someone tell me why no one objects when doomers like Will Continue use these tactics? Because she is on "your" side?

What is it that this forum really wants? What are you objecting to with the pollies? Is it name calling, or just the different opinion of what the results of Y2K will be? If it's the name calling, we need to remember what they say about glass houses. If we just don't want to hear good news, well, that's another story. Let's get it out in the open, and once and for all decide.

If it's name calling and denigration, what do we do about people like Will continue, who to my knowlefge, has contributed little else to this forum?

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), July 22, 1999.

Please block "Sucksself" from posting again on these forums. He is an oxygen thief (wastes perfectly good O2 by breathing it) and 99.999% of the space used for his posts would be far better used as Amway/Miracle Wrinkle Cream/beverage ethanol/nicotine sulfate advertising. His giving proof of stupidity re Y2K is superfluous; I can find that by talking to any 3 random people about Y2K for more than 30 seconds.


-- Minnesotasmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), July 22, 1999.

I say ignore the moron DS. He is a junior programmer, compared to the experience of other programmers on this forum. He is clueless. It's his problem, not ours. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), July 22, 1999.

Oh come on - no one wants to answer my question? Is it all that hard of one?

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), July 22, 1999.


There really is only one answer, but you risk going insane trying to get anyone here to admit it. (Ive been trying for a while, and I'm not sure how much more stomach I have for it).


It's really as simple as that. Their administrators (read JUNTA) disseminate the excuse that the blame for their prejudice lays at the feet of these "abusive, troll posts", and its accepted as some kind of panacaea, (except that its OK when one of their own kind does the same thing, naturally), and they're quite prepared to blank out any other possibility.

This weeks official opiate is "We must protect the forum from those who wish to destroy it". Kinda like the old soviet line during the cold war. "They are evil because they are different". And dont anyone dare to question this, because anyone not accepting the word of the leader unquestioningly is DECADENT, and has been INFECTED with unclean thoughts by the enemy's conspiracy. Strangely, many otherwise intelligent people are apparently blind to this phenomena, and feel comfortable and at ease participating in it. (a form of sanction wouldn't you say ?)

In any case, theres no point in spelling it out. Any information which comes from the other side of Diane's "iron curtain" is immediately viewed as enemy propaganda, its tainted by association, and the process of "disinfection" is well established.

Label, deviate, ignore, insult, call to delete.

They've been so well trained that most dont even seem to realise when they're doing it. Good luck to you, may you get further than I have managed to.



PS - A tip. Don't concern yourself with things like courtesy, facts, honesty or logic . . THEY MAKE NO DIFFERENCE. (Can provide copious links if required).

-- W0lv3r1n3 (W0lv3r1n3@yahoo.com), July 22, 1999.

So, Mr. Poole, now you are posting as "Bob (bob@bob.bob)" also?

-- none (none@none.none), July 22, 1999.

"Ed Yourdon is Columbus"

Who said comedy was dead?

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), July 22, 1999.

Never wrestle with a pig. You'll both get dirty and the pig will love it.

-- (old@macdonald.farm), July 22, 1999.

Hi Chuck! Looks like this time it is a blockquote.

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), July 22, 1999.

Comrade none

Well done, well done. Phase 1 is complete. You are performing well. The politburo is pleased. Now, move immediately to Phase 2 . . this subject MUST be deviated.

Remember . . mention embedded systems. Or interconnectivity.

If you continue to respond with such enthusiasm you could make the grade of Kommisar, and be rewarded with your own bug-out-Dacha.



-- W0lv3r1n3 (W0lv3r1n3@yahoo.com), July 22, 1999.

Didn't print the question I asked, did you Old Git/Outings/whoever you are today. And I notice you did not answer it!


All I want to know is, at what date will you concede that Y2K will be over? For better or for worse, there has to be a day when the subject becomes passe'. I want to know that magical date. And not one single person has given me a response with substance. Come on, is it next year? Spring? Fall? Are you going to wait for the lookbacks in 2001?

I am really beginning to get the idea that come 2005 there will still be people over here saying "any day now, THEY can't hide it much longer".

Gee - what if they gave an EOTW, and nobody noticed!

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), July 22, 1999.


Sorry to disapoint you, but I have been here for over a year (before this my handle was "Online2Much". me , a polly? nope. sorry to let you down. But I am very sad to see people like Will Continue trash this forum, then people like Old Git back them up with their implicit sanctioning of their trolling, while calling for censorship of opposing views. Maybe this place has become a cult like setting. I miss the "good old days". Sigh

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), July 22, 1999.

And still not mone person has answered my question... how are (yes, I know what I'm saying) assholes like Will Continue allowed carte blanche here, but anyone with an opposing viewpoint is subject to the call for censorship?

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), July 22, 1999.

Wow . . Bob . .

Im fascinated to see how they're gonna deal with you.

prediction . .

1) good ol boy turned bad.(5/4F)

2) just ignore your comments and pretend you dont exist.(3/1)

3) Answer your question in a logical adult manner, treating it with the respect it deserves as an important point of principle (300/1 rank outsider with one leg missing and a blind jockey)

Time will tell. Place yer bets.

Kindest Regards


-- W0lv3r1n3 (W0lv3r1n3@yahoo.com), July 22, 1999.

This forum is intended for people who are concerned about the impact of the Y2000 problem on their personal lives, and who want to discuss various fallback contingency plans with other like-minded people.


-- (what@its.about), July 22, 1999.

sigh - make that "not one"...these fingers are non Y2K compliant...

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), July 22, 1999.

For the squillionth time . .

How is -

"discussing the likely degree of impact we can expect from Y2K"

NOT part of

"discussing various fallback contingency plans with other like-minded people, because one is concerned." ?


-- stop this nonsense and just (answer@the.question), July 22, 1999.

Never wrestle with pigs. All will get dirty and the pigs will love it.

-- (old@macdonald.farm), July 22, 1999.

So, Old McDonald

When the pig is named Will Continue, you're a fan of pig wrestling, but when it's someone else, you're not? Come on, tell me what you really think...

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), July 22, 1999.

I bet Bob hasn't even made any fallback contingency plans. I'd like to be proven wrong though.

-- A (regular@since.1998), July 22, 1999.

Wow...people are avaoiding my question about why it's ok for Will continue to spew trash talk, but not for the pollies to do the same. guess that answers my question.

Regular, as for my preparing, if you had bothered to read my previous reply, I'm not a polly, just someone who is disgusted with the extremists who have overun this forum. yes, I have food, a solar system ,and even a motorcycle (on and off road) in case gas prices rise, but of course in your mind anyone willing to listen to an opposing opinion just MUST be a denial butt-head.

In my opinion, anyone who's beliefs/comclusions can not stand up to a little scrutiny is the real butt-head here...

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), July 22, 1999.


I enjoy a lot of your posts, but this one was kinda reaching, IMHO.

I'm profoundly pessimistic about this whole situation. From my point of view, Ed Yourdon is still a touch on the optimistic side.

I don't like ranting or foul language no matter who indulges in it.

Will continue: I truly do understand how you feel (See my "Y2K Rage"), but getting that angry at "computer ghosts" isn't good for any of us. Maybe save the energy for something useful?

We will know what is going on within 6-12 months. I'd love to "stand down" on this issue. My wife wants a camper and a boat that have been put on hold "until we see how things go next year".

Paul Davis, if all we see by 7-1-2000 are fleeting or even longer lived but minor problems, I'll certainly know we got past this in fine shape.

Final comment: Folks, I don't know about you, but I've heard and used a lot worse language. Had it spewed in my face, along with saliva droplets, for that matter. It didn't hurt me then, it CERTAINLY doesn't raise my blood pressure coming from party or parties unknown.

I'm using my real email address, so flame away, anyone who cares to.

-- Jon Williamson (jwilliamson003@sprintmail.com), July 22, 1999.

Glad to hear you're making preparations, Bob. People would give more credence to what you have to say if you'd talk about your fallback plans more often. I remember bob@bob.bob for his off-topic 'Church Of the Sub-Genus' postings.

-- A (regular@since.1998), July 22, 1999.

Come on people, this really isn't rocket science. Answer this question.

why is it ok for Will Continue to engage in name calling, but not ok for the pollies to do the same.

Answer this, and I will quit asking, but it sure lookes like a double standard to me.....

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), July 22, 1999.


Nope, that wasn't me. I hope your Y2K research is better then your forum research.....

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), July 22, 1999.


See above, it isn't. I'd love to see this forum stick to decent English and omit the profanities, obcenities, and name calling. I don't care who it comes from.

-- Jon Williamson (jwilliamson003@sprintmail.com), July 22, 1999.

Tell me what kind of outcome your y2k research is suggesting now, Bob. Oil shortages seem to be one of your worries. Having a bicycle or motorcycle could be VERY important next year.

-- Tuna but (no@more.spam), July 22, 1999.

no online2much bob just attacks ed in open letters and plays worried electrician hoaxes on diff forums and ricks forum is now private

-- (stevie@poole.isthatyou?), July 22, 1999.

It is not OK for ANYONE to "personally attack" anyone else???

Did that answer your question???

Juvenile behavior has gotten out of hand on both sides of the fence... GROW UP...

Anyone who cannot post here in a decent, adult manner should be "censored"... period. There are a lot of words that profanity is used in place of. Use these words not profanity.

"My you ARE a vulgarian, aren't you?" - A Fish Called Wanda - John Cleese's character

growlin' at the meter man...

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), July 22, 1999.

"If you can't say anything nice...." Regardless of anyone's beliefs about y2k... no one knows for sure... Name calling is a waste of space and time, and so is sarcasm for that matter... it only serves to confuse and obfiscate what the purpose of the thread is for... what does "butt head" have to do with y2k discussions?

Whether a polly or doomer, postings that have nothing more than name calling and/or insults are useless... If you have a valid point, it can be said without insults.. i.e, "I disagree because..."... adding "you studid #@$%@@" serves no respectable contributor (including the name caller) and devalues credible information from either side.

As far as DS goes, I am relatively new to this forum but have not read anything viable written by this person. In this case, and others like them, regardless of what position they take, these name calling and nothing else statements can definately make getting to the meat of the coconut much more difficult.

I don't believe in censorship but I do believe in courtesy. If people can restrain themselves, there is no need for censorship... otherwise.. snip snip..

-- booann (cantsay@lovemyjob.edu), July 22, 1999.

Why are so many parents allowing their five-year-olds to post to this forum?

-- Lane Core Jr. (elcore@sgi.net), July 22, 1999.

Amen. Let's talk about Y2K and what we can do to lessen its impact on our families.

-- (no@name.calling), July 22, 1999.

Jon - thank you very much for responding to a civil question. I admit I have gotten a bit vehement asking it, but when it has gone by for the 9th or 10th time, and been ignored or name called or partially cross posted for purposes of mocking me personally, I think my irritation is understandable.

7/1/2000 is your final date for problems of a major sort striking without warning. Thank you.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), July 22, 1999.

nasty ness'mean spirited'arrogant'self-centered'JUST A [SIGN] of the TIMES.----JERRY SPRINGER=NOW AGE.

-- sadfact. (dogs@zianet.com), July 22, 1999.

PLEASE...will the moderator(s) not allow useless, tasteless, mindless, foul-mouthed, ill-intentioned nonsense onto this forum?! NONE of us has time for doomer@sucks, and in truth, no one should be answering him. I would not allow him into my parlor to defecate on the carpet, and he ought not to be allowed to do that here. If he had even ONE constructive idea to contribute.....but he doesn't. He is simply a destroyer. Thank you. This is my vote to out him.

-- Thoroughly Disgusted (Keepitto@myself.now), July 22, 1999.


Actually, given that I suspect that the "death of a thousand cuts" (or bled to death by black flies) scenario is probably a lot more accurate than the "sudden death", all at once shutdown kind of thing I started out worrying about, we may NEVER get straight out answers as to whether problems are Y2K, cyber-terrorists, or a sudden inability of our working population to do ANYTHING right (G).

Paul, rationally thinking, I know that a great deal of work has been done. What I don't know is if it is enough. From the people I talk to personally (I'm a technical recruiter), the news is not good. But, the very fact that they are looking for work means that they are NOT a representative sample of the population.

I have been disturbed by the move to JIT, MRP, "total" systems like SAP and Peoplesoft for some time. Darn it, you need some room for slop in any system. I don't think we have left ourselves enough of an "oops" factor in our rush to reduce costs.

So, I truly am preparing for an 8-10, while hoping for a pea sized bump.

I will converse with anyone who does not attack me. I reply to Ken Decker's posts. On some subjects, we agree. He has even used some material that looks a lot like emails I've sent him in posts here (the sincerest form of flattery).

I'm an avid amatuer historian. I don't believe we've found the perpetual prosperity machine. I don't think we have found the secret that will let THIS civilization survive forever. Can we count the time left in months? I hope not. But, within the year, we should know.

In the meantime, can we all act like adults?

-- Jon Williamson (jwilliamson003@sprintmail.com), July 22, 1999.

Paul -

FWIW, I was about to post 6/30/1999 when friend Jon posted his "all-clear" date. Close enough. Put me down for 7/1/1999 as well.

Your point?

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), July 22, 1999.

Boy, wasn't that a Freudian slip of the keyboard? 7/1/2000, of course. *sigh*

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), July 22, 1999.


Just to make sure I made myself clear, IF the SHTF, 07/01/2000 is NOT the date I expect everything to be fixed by.............

-- Jon Williamson (jwilliamson003@sprintmail.com), July 22, 1999.

As I perceive it--maybe I'm wrong--Columbus was a far better navigator than we give him credit to be. That is, he privately KNEW that he wouldn't reach the Far East because he KNEW that the earth's circumference was just too darn wide to survive the journey.

Columbus, being of the political sort, thought that he could better convince Ferdinand and Isabel (and their ministers) to provision the voyage if he could trick them into thinking they would get rich from Far Eastern spices and silks. Columbus knew better. He really just wanted to see if there was a new continent along the way, as per the old legends from the Irish monks. Does Yourdon have ulterior motives like Columbus? Doubt it.

Not to be picky, but perhaps another germane metaphor would suffice...

-- coprolith (coprolith@rocketship.com), July 22, 1999.

Sung to the "You got me, babe" tune originating with Sonny and Cher:

"You got me, Bob."

In defense of Will Continue, I saw ONE post wherein there were no flames and some logic. Will's a SHE, BTW. Now, with Doomer@sucks.com, I've seen 4-5 posts that contained no flames and some logic.

YOU deal with it. I simply ignore anyone who I feel has nothing to offer but flames or flame-bait.

-- Anita (spoonera@msn.com), July 22, 1999.

As I recall, Will Continue had another 'handle' but due to some confusion between her and another poster she changed it. I do not at this time recall the previous one.

I believe she is a long time poster here.

-- J (jart5@bellsouth.net), July 23, 1999.

Keep D.S. Censorship is indeed a slippery and dangerous slope. A more practical way to deal with behavior you find offensive is simply to shun the offender.

-- Faith Weaver (suzsolutions@yahoo.com), July 23, 1999.

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