This has been building up in me for some time. So, with your permission, I will vent here a bit.

These FOOLS have stolen my children's future. I have a delightful girl, 14 (well, almost). Intelligent, speaks good standard English, can carry on a coherent, logical argument (she wins sometimes, too).

She looks at me sometimes and says, "It makes me so ANGRY that I probably won't ever get the chance to graduate from high school. I don't want to learn to garden, I want to go to college to be a "bug scientist".

I have an eighteen year old son who is a city boy. He's always lived in Nashville, TN. He will be moving to Michigan soon, for reasons unrelated to this mess. What is he going to do if/when this thing goes to an 8/9/10? His life has been friends and TV and video games and clubs.

These short sighted A******S are taking away the only life they have ever known.

Now, I've always been concerned about a breakdown of this silly system of tinkertoys we've built up. I've tried to keep one foot pretty well in the "old ways". I can hunt, fish, I know edible plants and mushrooms. I'm no mountain man or Tom Brown, but off trail/back country doesn't freak me out.

Now, my life and my kid's will be disrupted because a bunch of fools in government and business wouldn't look past the next quarter's budget.

They did not prevent, and I will remember.

-- Jon Williamson (jwilliamson003@sprintmail.com), July 20, 1999

Answers

I know EXACTLY how you feel. I am so angry at this moment I can barely type.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), July 20, 1999.

Eating them would be a nice revenge. Polly on a cracker. Yum.

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 20, 1999.

With all due respect, why not wait until you see how this plays out and then decide how you feel? Why be angry at people who may or may not be responsible for an event that hasn't happened yet? And how does anger change the possible outcomes?

Regards,

-- Mr. Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), July 20, 1999.

Creamed Decker on "Milne-toast"?

(just kidding!)

;)

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), July 20, 1999.

Well, I'm sure you, like the rest of us enjoyed the extremely cheap stuff at Walmart. And the $.49 cheeseburger at McDonald's. The ability to get practically anything by telephone mail order, and have it arrive the next day.

And the $.60 can of soup, and the fresh veggies from California and Chile.

All of this was made possible through automation and Just-in-time inventory systems.

Now, perhaps, we get the "flip side".

Jolly (enjoying my air-conditioning for perhaps the last time)

-- Jollyprez (jolly@prez.com), July 20, 1999.

*If* there are elections in 2000, we plan to vote for "none of the above incumbents" and elect total newbies based on their Y2K leadership, emergent local heroes, if any. Haven't seen a single honest straightforward leader spell out the Y2K possibilities for the weeples' good yet.

Now it is far too late for any 'leader' to hop on the badwagone.

We have no desire to see the fall of any government, but since it looks like it will fall of its own fool weight, we think starting over is a good idea.

Time to go back to the Constitution and do it right this time. Beware the encroaching creep. How many will join the "Never Again" Party?

Sticky wicky subject because some things are working rather nicely. Collapse is such an inconvenient messy disruption.

If only the pollyticks were right and we could all laugh and shop and enjoy January 4, 2000.

We haven't been angry, though, too amazed and dazed and stunned, still, to really believe this escalating nightmare.

3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), July 20, 1999.

Jon,

Thanks. This may turn out to be one of the most powerful threads ever created here along with "What about you?"...

I have a son. He's 3 and hurts me right now to even type these words. It's tough not to tear up but I do that anyway if he smiles at me or laughs with me or makes me so proud or says something really intelligent or funny or when he sleeps so peacefully. It's a fun time in our house right now. He's finally got the "big boy" underwear on! lol

He came to my wife and I after 10 years of marriage. I'm 36, my wife is 34 and we met in highschool. This year we'll celebrate our 20th year together. In that time my wife and I went through many trials and delt with the lessons life's experiences decided we needed to learn. I wont go over all of them but for me to write that my son was a miracle for us would not be out of line. People question if miracles do still occur. They do, every day, it's just as a society we don't pay enough attention to them. We don't give to them in time and resources as much as we should.

I have hopes and dreams for my son. I hope he'll always be happy, healthy, safe and free. I dream that he'll have a future much brighter than my past.

If I could give you any advice at a time like this it's to keep yourself grounded firmly in the present and never give up or feel driven down by the future. Eventually, our children will build the world you and I wanted for them. Just make sure to keep all your hopes and all of your dreams alive no matter what.

Mike

===============================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), July 20, 1999.

Believe me, I know what you mean, too. I don't like having to confront a feeling of "powerlessness" regarding my abilities to contribute to my children's expectations of the future. The eldest graduates soon in accounting to get a C.P.A. She's doing an internship now. I'm grateful she didn't take the gov.org internship offer in D.C., instead accepting a local company's offer. At least she's within physical reach. Number two daughter is still at a local community college, again within physical reach. Of the last two, one is starting highschool, the other still in middle school. 3 of the 4 live with their mother, I'm remarried.

We talk about y2k and preparations, storing food, etc. Wife has agreed to take in the ex, if we have to. May not be the best idea, but as she says, "She's their mother." (Here's hoping for the "bump in the road theory. Can you imagine two women under one roof?)

As for me, I've been working for the last 5 years to launch a new local broadcasting company. Talk about mental skitzoid psychological blowouts. What to do? Pull the plug now and hit the bunker? or sweat it out and hope for the best?

-- Karl (whynot@zog.net), July 20, 1999.

Jon,

My first thought when reading your post is a desire to suggest you use the word "may" or "might" instead of being so definite in your conclusions. It sounds like you have done a tremendous job of preparing and now need to try to relax a bit - yeah, we will all be watchful but stress this early will only give you a heart attack - not serve any useful purpose.

I catch myself thinking about how things got this crazy (with regard to Y2k) and then stop because it won't help me at all and just drags me down. Look ahead, plan on rolling with the changes and be thankful you have prepped and have a great family. Take a deep breath and kick back a little - isn't it about "Miller Time"?? :^)

-- Kristi (securx@succeed.net), July 20, 1999.

I have three young children all boys. 6,3,and 2. I can sleep at night knowing i have done all that i can to weather this storm. It would have been easy to put off all i've done for a more convenient time. If i thought we really had more time.! As for who is responsible for this mess? what's it matter " life offers no guarantees.

-- kevin (innxxs@yahoo.com), July 20, 1999.

Jon: Maybe you and some others who are feeling extremely anxious should take a break from Y2K. I took 4 months off and I now that I'm back on line again I'm not anxious or upset over what may or may not happen. If you can set in your mind that there's nothing you can do about future events and go forward each day doing the best you can then you have won half the battle. There's no point in getting pi**ed at anyone for Y2K. Take control of your life and don't worry about the things you can't control. Bardou

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), July 20, 1999.

Jon,

Read The Fourth Turning: What the Cycles of History Tell Us About America's Next Rendezvous With History, by William Srauss and Neil Howe. (New York: Broadway Books/Bantam Doubleday Dell, 1997). For more on the concept of "fourth turning," visit the authors' Fourth Turning web at www.fourthturning.com

The basic premise is that every fourth generation is exposed to a major crisis that presents them with the opportunity to be heroes and, in some sense, save the world. There's a lot of debate and disagreement about their argument, but I think they've provided reasonably good evidence all the way back to 17th-century England; the only exception they point out is the Civil War, which didn't occur "on schedule."

Anyway, if you suspend your disbelief for a moment, it turns out that the generation born in the early 1980s will be coming into adulthood during the first decade of the new millennium, which is roughly when the authors expect the next "crisis" to occur. Just as my parents reached adulthood at the outbreak of WWII and (as Tom Brokaw has chonricled so well in his recent book) saved the world, so it may well turn out that my children will be called upon to perform heroic acts if if turns out that Y2K creates a world crisis.

Ed

-- Ed Yourdon (still.lurking@newmexico.hills), July 20, 1999.

I too get angry that my youngest daughter will barely graduate from high school (she is finishing up credits early) and may not have the opportunities that her older siblings had. We did move up her barrel racing and rodeo plans a year so she could at least have something. My grandsons may not have the chance to do the things they may want to when they grow up.

Even if this turns out to be a bump in the road, why did all of these companies and governments have to put us through this and not give us the information we needed. Yes I get angry that all of my plans have been put on hold until after the first of the year. I had planned a career change but the risk is too high right now because of this mess.

What makes me even angrier is that if this is just a bump in the road, nothing will change. Corporations will continue to manage to the "bottom line" and treat people like pieces of furniture. The government will try to take even more control of our lives.

I guess I had better go and talk to my horse - she has real good sense and listens real well.

-- Beckie (sunshine_horses@yahoo.com), July 20, 1999.

Jon,

You hit the nail on the head. My life has come to a screeching halt since I discovered "the rollover problem". I had originally planned a family vacation this year to Washington, British Columbia, and Alaska, for 21 days. Oh well... so much for that...

My children are 18, 16, 14, and 12. At 37, I started a family earlier than most, (our nickname is the Bratty bunch) and we get along, other than the "normal" teen rebellions... Our kid's friends think we are "cool" because we are so much younger and "hipper" than their "old" parents.

We are as prepared as we can be, with what little finances remain. The kids are remarkably intelligent and "got it" right away, while my wife still drags her feet, but has pretty much given in. We are upset that we have to change our lifestyle, even if it is only until the end of the year, because of a screw-up that didn't get remediated when it should have. Of course if it goes bad, another major lifestyle change is in order at the BEGINNING of next year. I pray to God the polly's are right, and I am wrong...

I refuse to make any major purchases until after rollover, and we are running a tight budget until December in order to have some cash on- hand.

Yes, I will remember too...

chasin' the cat,

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), July 20, 1999.

I was angry also, until I realized that I had had choices all along, to be more self-sufficient, to teach my kids differently. And that many others had never enjoyed those choices from their birth.

-- Ct Vronsky (vronsky@anna.com), July 20, 1999.

I agree with many of you regarding the human scum that's made all of this possible. They are "domestic enemies" in every sense of the word and deserve all manners of retribution that they'll probably never receive. The sad part is that our current state of affairs is much, much worse than what we see on the surface such as Y2k, immoral gov't. leaders, etc. For freedom-loving Americans, it's imperative that we understand what's already happened over the last few decades that's brought us to where we are at this point. Namely, the almost total subversion of our Constitution by executive orders, soon to be worthless fiat money, the 14th Amendment which has trained us for decades to "voluntarily" contract our rights away to the Fed'l. Gov't. and all it's agencies of plunder as well as the collateralization of us, our families and all of our assets to the international bankers. The result is that WE OWN NOTHING, not even our own children. You can never truly own a house without allodial title, own a car because you're issued a "certificate of title" not the true clear title created by the mfr. and if your marriage has been granted as a privilege thru a state-issued "marriage license" it becomes a three-party contract which enables the state to seize any children if they deem it necessary. I could go on, but the result of all this legal chicanery for many years is that we've been able to live the fantasy of being free...very soon the fantasy will end and the choice will be to die freemen or live a life of slavery. It shouldn't come to that, but if anyone knows of plan how we can use some divine guidance to our advantage, then I'm all ears. God Bless The Republic and Death to the NWO.

-- saveamerica (gfc40@hotmail.net), July 20, 1999.

I know how you feel. It hurts me very deeply to know that most of my friends and family, none of whom have chosen to prepare AT ALL, will be dead in such a very short time. My children barely had a chance to grow and NOW because of this immense stupidity, their tender lives will be cut short. The best we can do is keep prepared and stay strong. Keep them in our hearts as we look to the future.

-- (still@preparing.now), July 20, 1999.

Jon, Some great advice in response to your post.

I agree with the others who said it doesn't help (except for a few moments) to blame "them", the government, etc., for the mess that we are in, even though there is much blame to go around. Look back if you can find it to the threads on the book Ishmael. Humankind has been in a similar mess ever since we took up agriculture 10,000 years ago. Technology gives us a great boost for a while, we let our population soar, we build cities, armies, etc., and then mother nature and human nature step in and our civilizations crash.

As for our current crises, look back to Jollyprez's comments. Everytime that we buy electricity, a McDonald's, or a copy of Microsoft Office, we are not only enjoying the benefits of whatever product we buy but we are giving a tacit endorsement to the way a company does business, or to the whole system of "entanglements" that allow that product to work for us. The only one's in our society who share little in the blame for the mess that were in are the Amish and others who live low on the food chain. And even they won't escape whatever mess Y2K will bring.

BTW, I too have a family that I love dearly, and three young children. Like most of you, were preparing for the worst, and hoping and praying for something less severe.

---------- Alexi.

-- Alexi (Alexi@not-in-the-dark.com), July 20, 1999.

Yesterday we went to Costco. There were tables set up with sweaters and terry bathrobes -- Fall stuff appearing. That gave us a jolt of fear. It's coming too soon.

Has anybody else seen something, even a little thing, that triggers fear, or makes the inevitable loom more real?

3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), July 20, 1999.

A & L:

The days are growing shorter, with the sunset arriving a tad earlier each day. It makes me realize that autumn is coming. I go through this every year. I don't think about it too much after the first day of summer, but I start noticing the days growing shorter about this time.

However, there's more than autumn to face this year. I realize that this could be our last "normal" summer for a while if the fault tolerance level of our society and its systems cannot handle an unusual number of potential breakdowns/malfunctions, which no one is able to accurately determine.

-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), July 20, 1999.

Tim, ever since we GI, we've been holding a continual mental wake, saying goodbye to all the golden "normal" things we no longer take for granted. With that tinge of fear our minds raced with all the loose ends we still need to tie up, and we could understand the fear, rage and anger, and yes panic the masses might feel if anything leads to their comprehension before the fact.

We are so grateful for this Forum for helping us get mentally, emotionally, socially, and physically prepared so we won't be trampled in the stampede if there is one.

If we had children we would definitely feel rage consumption that Jon brought up.

That this is happening, this betrayal plunging into a Dark Abyss, is so heinous, so unjustly surreal, that it is very disorienting. Nightmare Reality Vertigo.

Our prayers are with all on the Forum who contribute, help, share, educate, encourage, and treat each other with respect and courtesy. The 'Net is a gift and privilege and we owe much of our new-found self-reliancy to all of your posts. Thank you.

3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), July 20, 1999.

Jon,

I share your thoughts and feelings. But have you ever considered that we are on a journey to a destiny that was preordained? Like Noah?

I know there is a lot of interest and attention being given to the technical side of this problem, who's to blame, why didn't many folks and businesses and governments get started earlier on corrections. All of that supposes that there was always the option for this to turn out differently. That would be the rational/intellectual approach. But, there is also a spiritual factor that is woven in here and has been here all along. And that spiritual factor goes far and wide.

As you may know, the Mayan's and Hopi's prophecies foretold of this time in our history a long time ago. And there are many other sources of prophecy that have anticipated this too. Look at just this one:

"The conveniences and comforts of humanity in general will be linked up by one mechanism, which will produce comforts and conveniences beyond human imagination. But the smallest mistake will bring the whole mechanism to a certain collapse. In this way the end of the world will be brought about."

1922- Sufi Prophet- Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan

So, you see, there may be nothing we could have done, if this was all set into the fabric of the cosmic order, as the prophets have said. It should be noted too, that many of them also say that after a few years of shake-out (and yes deaths) a whole new social order will emerge that ushers in a millennium of peaceful coexistence. Thus, there is both negative and positive if we look at it that way. This is just a thought, since we seem unable to comprehend the magnitude of what is beginning to unfold before us. Be prepared, sure, the same as Noah was. And be hopeful for the ultimate positive outcome. If you go with the great prophets, you are in very good hands. Just a slightly different way of dealing with the matter.

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), July 20, 1999.

Jon, What makes anyone think that one can not live a happy and fullfilling life without the present technology?

Was every generation for six thousand years before us substandard or deficient in some way because they did not have nintendo or the same level of medical care?

People are born, they live and they die. It does not matter in the least if you don't get to be a 'bug scientist'. That is not what life is about.

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), July 20, 1999.

The future will be neither "happy" nor "fulfilling" regardless of technology. Millions will die, including most of the people I know. There is nothing "happy" about watching your children suffer and die, and nothing "fulfilling" about being forced to kill to keep them alive.

This isn't summer camp, and there's no friendly counselors to help you out. This is a nightmare.

-- (still@preparing.now), July 20, 1999.

Echoing Paul's post, think of the bright side. You mentioned your son, and his life of video games, etc. I have a step-son whose life consists of one screen after another: Nintendo, T.V., Internet. Maybe the best thing that can happen to this generation is REAL life. I think it is possible.

-- SUSIE VENTURA (SUSIE0884@AOL.COM), July 20, 1999.

Just want to add a thought that probably will not be popular, but I'll say it anyway. Think about how we got so much "stuff", how much fancy technology, how much inexpensive trappings. Is it not true that the reason we are so wealthy, and the reason we have had such easy lives for so many years is because our country, our corporations, and ultimately we, ourselves, have exploited every third world nation we have been able to exploit? We invaded Guatemala because the Guatemalans wanted back their land, the land taken by the United Fruit Company (directed by lots of famous politicos of the forties and fifties--if you want their names, read "Bitter Fruit, a history of the US involvement in Guatemala). We conspired to start a revolution in order to have a province of Columbia (Panama) secede, because Columbia wouldn't grant us a right to build a canal. We invaded Mexico, and took about half of her land mass (Mexico is only now recovering it through illegal immigration, it seems)

Regardless of our history, the fact is, we've been able to live the life of Riley by exploiting many other people. Maybe y2k is our Karma, our time to make it on our own.

JOJ

-- jumpoffjoe (jumpoff@echoweb.net), July 20, 1999.

As the calendar autumn approaches, I am also in the autumn of my life.I was born in 1929 and lived through the depression. I can vividly remember being hungry; being cold; of never having enough of anything. Seeing my father cry because he could not provide for us is indelibly impressed in my memory. But we survived - sometimes on one egg a day for me (grandmother had a chicken) and gravy made out of flour and water for my parents.

Just as things were beginning to get better we were plunged into World War II and rationing. The best years that I remember were the 50's. My husband made $350 a month and we owned a three bedroom house, a new car, and we had two children to feed and clothe. Our oldest child went to private school her first year. If anyone had told me then that cars would cost $35,000 and that house payments would be $1,200 and up - I would have thought he was a jibbering idiot.

I have seen this country relinquish its manufacturing base to countries overseas and become primarily a service society. Have you seen the newly posted balance of payments deficit? Now just as we were looking at retirement along comes y2k. I am sick, furious, despondent, depressed, and in a panic. I fear for my children who do not know how to do without and for my grandchildren and for my soon to be great grandchild. We are preparing as best we can and we live in a rural area so maybe we will be better off than some.

To Y2kPro and Doomer I say: "We grow too soon old, and too late smart". You simply have not lived long enough or learned enough to be so critical of those who are fearful that the economy is going to revert to "The Great Depression" status. I feel their pain and their panic because I have been there and I do not know if I have the stamina to live through it again - but I am firmly convinced it is coming.

-- Nadine Zint (nadine@hillsboro.net), July 20, 1999.

Thank you for a most interesting thread.

For myself, perhaps because I was not dealt a greatest deck of cards with my health, for the past 26 years I have coped as I cope now; I pray for strength and guidance, I take the best care of myself and others as I able; I learn, reflect, act and celebrate life.

I have had to prepare to be as self-sufficient as I am able for almost 3 decades. I "got it" soon after I learned about Y2K. Y2K is just another life adjustment, and actually, perhaps not the most difficult one I had to make.

Having lost my health, I celebrate health. Looking forward to rough times, I celebrate good times; it's all about emotional resiliency and keeping balance, IMHO.

I'm an old hand at making the best of a lousy hand of cards (I was once the best in three professional fields and I am proud of having been).

Y2K is just another lousy hand looming. I prepare as I always have, with prayer guiding reflection, preparation, rest and celebration.

-- Leslie (***@***.net), July 20, 1999.

JOJ, The apologetic guilt-ridden Socialist rant you posted above is part of the reason we are in this mess to begin with. I'm not even going to bother and address your argument...you are simply completely ignorant of our history, like most Americans. I invite you to read: "The Light and the Glory" by Peter Marshall and David Manuel, ISBN 0- 8007-0886-5 to get a proper history education as to the beginnings and foundings of the United States of America. The book is a narrative compilation of actual writings and diaries of the men and women that forged our nation by the grace of God.

You will weep at how far we've fallen from the original intent the Founders had for us.

With that said, I have mixed emotions on the disaster about to wreak havoc with our fat-lazy culture. As one who is watching our nation collapse into wretched Socialism, globalism and Hedonism, I fully expect we as a nation will soon reap the punishment we so richly laid up for ourselves. Kids killing kids is just one of the many great rewards we are reaping from the 60's Rebellion Generation. If Y2K so much as even hiccups, much less a "bump-in-the-road", we will all feel and witness the full fury of the spoiled/lazy society that has been fed 35 years of prosperity, and has no clue how to make do, or sacrifice. The have-nots will outnumber the Haves. You do the math, and maybe you will understand why Milne and myself are preparing the way we are.

In that regard, I have no pity for this country. We have reaped what we have sown.

On the other hand, as a father of 3 young girls - 11 and under, I weep in selfishness and angry despair at our leadership and moreso the American People for allowing ourselves to get to this dependant state.

I want to see my daughters go to prom. I want to be up at 3 in the morning in a raving frenzy that my daughter's date has kept her out late. I want to go through the fun of teasing my daughters' freinds, and interrogate them on what movie or mall they are planning to go to. I want to wonder why she took the car without asking, I want to hear about the jealous fights they have with their sisters over a cute boy. I want to have the argument about college over getting married. I want to walk three beautiful girls down the aisle and then get violently nauseous as I review the Visa bills for catering, halls, bands and photographers. I WANT to spoil my grandchildren silly and exact the glee in driving my daughters nuts by telling the grandkids "yes" when mom says "no"!!!!

If that all sounds crazy...I think the woes parents have had for the last 35 years upon raising kids, will be tame to the woes of a collapsing society, and living a hard life off the land.

I hold no pretenses as to how difficult it was to raise a family ala "Little House on the Prarie". As I've said when giving advice about raising kids, as hard as you imagine it will be....you'll end up wishing it was that easy.

To those who have ears to hear and eyes to see, you have been given a great gift...and a curse. Though you be accursed now, may your preparations be a blessing to you and yours, and may you be blessed in your "place of safety", wherever that is.

May God have mercy on us all.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), July 20, 1999.

Invar, I'm not talking about our Founding Fathers, and I'm not a socialist. I'm sorry you reacted the way you did.

However, I do not believe that we in this country are perfect; certainly the political leaders who have been largely responsible for the abuses heaped on our less fortunate travellers are not perfect. If you feel that it is ok to exploit other people because it helps you live a fat life style, I am sorry you feel that way.

Do you believe you deserve more creature comforts at the expense of others' suffering?

-- jumpoffjoe (jumpoff@echoweb.net), July 20, 1999.

Folks, thank you all for your insights. I read each of them to my wife just now.

Truly, as I said, I was "venting". I've had it a lot worse than I have it now, and we deal with what life gives us. I'll deal with whatever Y2K brings to the best of my ability, also.

And if my son never saw another TV set or Nintendo game, it wouldn't do him any harm...

Invar, Pam thought your post about your daughters was very touching. I think you summed up what I was trying to say....

Hoping for the best, preparing for the worst. And please, don't let the collapse/panic start too soon. I need to make another run to Sam's........

-- Jon Williamson (pssomerville@sprintmail.com), July 20, 1999.

Jon,

I'd like to suggest you find the children's book titled, "Yonder". My youngest is nine. Like Mike's, he is truely our miracle. He brought the book home as his accelerated reader one night last year. It is a short story (20 pgs?) about the circle of life on a small farm and focuses on three generations of homesteaders. I was supposed to help him to read it, but wound up with a cracking voice and having to make an excuse to leave the room. I honestly don't want my children to live ANY other way, than that sweet story portrayed. I hunted it down on my next visit to Barne's and Nobel. My 18 year old daughter felt the same way about the book. Of all of us, this will be hardest on my daughter. They tend to doubt and question their futures at that age anyway, under normal circumstances.

I remind her that love and romance have ALWAYS existed in the most trying of times in history. No mall and movies? We'll have barn dances and socials. No hot-rods and drive-ins? We'll have pic-nics on horseback. How bad will it get? We'll carry on and find our soul mates and have children (and grandchildren) and help our neighbors and pool the schoolhouse duties and the baking, sewing, gardening, canning, milking, herding, harvesting. There will be laughter and tears, triumph and tragedy. The family unit will be reborn, dinner conversations and quiet reading beside the creek. As it should be. She wants to become a Veterinarian like my father. She will. She wants her own cabin on the East border of our property. We'll build it.

It's only a matter of perception. It will be quite an adventure, but it will make them, We won't allow it to break them! They have already grown from the experience of preparing. If we lived in the City, it would be different. We don't and this is why. Society has become twisted and distorted. We will rebuild, others may strive to restore. Restoration would be a tragedy. We must learn from our mistakes. We have been so painfully foolish.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), July 20, 1999.

Realizing that any of us could die tomorrow, we try not to let a single day pass without living and loving life to the fullest. We already "play" together as a family. We play Hearts, Faze 10, even Clue. We have family reading time. It's great! We have fun just being together. I am SO thankful for each and every day, that I will NOT let what MAY happen next year rob me of my joy this year. What a tragedy that would be!

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), July 20, 1999.

Guys/gals we are just a few right now simply because only a few (statistically/percentage-wise) know about how bad Y2K's impact can get to be. But can you imagine public opinion's reaction when mainstream huncky-dory America finds out about it?? Can you guys foresee how many expectations will crash into disappointing frustrations? Can anyone of us extrapolate the political outcome of all this? People not only will panic. They will also get MAD about it. Follow me? There will be many million Jon Williamson's out there.

-- George (jvilches@sminter.com.ar), July 21, 1999.

Jesus, what wailing and grinding of teeth and sheer spinelessness of all you gloomy whiners. Get a grip. Have you no control over your lives? People aren't going to die en masse, for Pete's sake! And Invar, don't fret, you'll be able to harrass and torment your poor daughters when they're old enough to loathe you wholesale for it.

-- You're all scared witless (what@babies.com), July 21, 1999.

You folks amaze me. I have never seen such a group of cry babies in my life. "Oh whoa is us! Things are going to get nasty! I am going to huddle up in my house and bemoan what I have lost!"

Why not get up off your scared little behinds and do something about it. You people are selfish to the nth degree. You care about one thing at the core and that is yourself. I don't care how much you say "I am concerned for my family!" BULLPUCKY! You are selfish and concerned for yourself period. If you were truly concerned about more than that you would be screaming from the rooftops about this. You would be preparing communities. Instead you all prepare your own little lives and say to heck with the rest of the human race.

Glad you folks weren't around in WWII, we would all be goosestepping at this point.

-- c (c@c.c), July 21, 1999.

I can't believe all the whining. All you people need to get off your dead asses and on your dying feet and make some difference. Bend someone's ear. Go to the town meetings. MAKE them listen. Just work at it. Find something you're good at and do it. Or learn how to do it. You'll be an asset and not a liability. One thing I learned years ago as a Navy nuclear power plant operator was, If you quit, they (whom ever or what ever they may be) WIN. Don't quit, do what you can. Save and protect what you hold dear. Just don't quit.

-- nine (nine_fingers@hotmail.com), July 21, 1999.

Scared Witless, if we could turn on the Way-back machine and put you in it, I am sure the history books will have recorded you saying:

Get a grip. Have you no control over your lives? Jews aren't going to die en masse, for Pete's sake! - Scared Witless, Berlin 1936

Get a grip. Have you no control over your lives? Japs aren't going to bomb Pearl Harbor, for Pete's sake! - Scared Witless, Oahu December 6, 1941

Get a grip. Have you no control over your lives? Stocks aren't going to crash, for Pete's sake! - Scared Witless, Wall Street, October 1929

Get a grip. Have you no control over your lives? - This ship is unsinkable for Pete's sake! Scared Witless, April 13, 1912

Get a grip. Have you no control over your lives? The Confederacy wouldn't dare attack Fort Sumter, for Pete's sake! -Scared Witless, South Carolina, April 11, 1861

Get a grip. Have you no control over your lives? The British aren't coming, for Pete's sake!

Funny thing about history, you can take it for granted after-the-fact, but reading and seeing the signs of the times, or the handwriting on the wall, and extrapolating the danger is what makes the difference between calamity and outright stupidity.

Thank you Witless, for pointing this out to all of us.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), July 21, 1999.

Hey c and - nine,

NO ONE IS LISTENING.

They don't want to hear it.

They want to hear smooth things, easy things, the things THEY want to hear.

So the hell with them! They are on their own. Many of us have tried to "make them listen" but only ended up persecuted, scorned, ridiculed and outcast.

Jesus said "I will knock, and he who opens the door unto me, I will come in with him and dine." Notice He said he would knock first, and IF the door opens to Him does he come in. Notice how He doesn't stand there pounding down the door with His fists to try and "save" the folks inside.

Many of us were knocking at the doors, only to have them slammed in our faces. You cannot save those who don't want to be saved.

So I say again....the hell with them. If they haven't gotten it by now, they won't...until it's too late. Then they'll want what I have to keep my wife and kids alive. Don't think so bunky.

It's all over but the panicking.

Game over man.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), July 21, 1999.

Again, everyone, thanks for listening to me "vent".

Life is what it is, if my kids are with me they have a much better chance of doing OK than if they were elsewhere.

163 days and counting. time to order more wheat and beans.

-- Jon Williamson (jwilliamson003@sprintmail.com), July 21, 1999.

You TELL 'EM INVAR....ninnies.

Thank YOU Jon, for providing the space to 'vent' as well. Those of us WITH children, tend to put them ABOVE the 'clueless jerks' we've ALL been ATTEMPTING to reach for many, many, many, MANY months now.

-bleep- 'em. This is *JULY 1999*

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), July 21, 1999.

I have nothing to add, it felt good to read this thread.

-- Mike Lang (webflier@erols.com), July 21, 1999.

Ed Yourdon

Thank GOD you are back!!

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@It's ALL going away in January.com), July 21, 1999.

Well said INVAR, well said.

-- a (a@a.a), July 21, 1999.

While I can be sad for what I, my children, and my grandchildren may not see, we need to look forward to what we will have...much starting NOW!

Fresh eggs daily. Better self-sufficiency. New hobbies (amateur radio, soapmaking, lure making). (hopefully) More time to go fishing. New skills. Fresh fruits and vegetables...

Remember, there is usually a benefit as well as a loss...especially if you are prepared.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), July 21, 1999.

The rational half of my brain tells me that there is not enough information about y2k to know what's going to happen, but that times are likely to get a little tougher for awhile.

My heart tells me that our society has been "asleep at the wheel" for some time, now, lulled by false prosperity and by information overload. You don't see a problem (or snowball of problems) coming at you when you are asleep at the wheel. Problems rarely arise when we see them coming.

My gut tells me that my brain doesn't know HALF of it, and that we are in deep doo-doo. Intuitively, I don't see how we are going to all make it with our skins intact. This makes me incredibly angry in a way that I sympathize deeply with all of you. I think of all the wasted potential, all of the good things that are going to dry up or go up in flames. Makes me want to spit.

My intuition is rarely wrong, but my logical brain tells me that it sometimes is. I hope it is. But geez, something's Really in the air. I can practically smell it, just like the melange of ions that linger just downwind of a particularly violent thunderstorm. I can practically hear it, just like the little whistley vibration in the train tracks before the locomotive engine is heard. Something Big and Serious is about to go down and lots of people are going to be totally caught off guard. It is the stuff of nightmares. It doesn't have to be this bad if people just tell the damn truth. But all that CYA is going to directly precipitate a lot of DOAs. The difference between an impact of 5 and 10 relies entirely on how good people are going to act toward their fellow person in need. At this point I have little faith in the charity of the human spirit to pull us through, given the spiritual wasteland we see ourselves marooned in these days.

Maybe I'm a little too nervous, but isn't it always the slightly-off- balance members of society who have the dubious gift of being the first to spot trouble on the horizon? Of course, the catch is that they spot all kinds of "problems" that only exist in their minds and never materialize in this plane of reality. But without a doubt, they are always the first spot a REAL problem, too, and are fated to be laughed at for "crying wolf" when in fact it's a whole hungry pack on the rampage this time.

-- coprolith (coprolith@rocketship.com), July 21, 1999.

Coprolith, you've been on a fascinating roll today -- don't stop! Yes, underlying surreal tension, Something Wicked This Way Comes. But what exactly it is ...

Very heartened to see Ed Yourdon come back, early, before the long hot dusty summer is over. The news has started earlier than we expected.

3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0 3~0

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), July 21, 1999.

Hey! I wasn't whining! I enjoy life too much to whine! :-)

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), July 21, 1999.

Decker says:

"Why be angry at people who may or may not be responsible for an event that hasn't happened yet?"

How about an economic cost of approximately $1,000,000,000,000 to "fix the problem" (in a half-assed way at best), due to nothing more than outright neglect and irresponsibility in the name of greed.

Yes, Decker, wake up from your little la-la land.

That's $1 trillion, which has ALREADY been spent, not including actual operational losses soon to be incurred, and lawsuits to follow. The costs of this selfish neglect is ALREADY being, and will continue to be, passed on to the consumer for years to come, in the way of higher prices, lost wages, etc., etc.

We have a damn good right to be angry. How long are you willing to sit around and allow this kind of crap to continue, or in your case, promote this kind of crap! I have to conclude that you are either incredibly naive about what is actually happening here, or that you are one of the selfish bastards who chose to shun this responsibility for your own profit.

DISGUSTINGLY IGNORANT!

-- @ (@@@.@), July 21, 1999.

Well, I skimmed down through all this thread. I will say this, come next March, when you guys figure out that you were taken by a marketing fad, I would not want to be Cory H., or Ed or certainly not Paul Milne. They better be well hidden, because it sounds like some of you will get really mad about that time.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), July 21, 1999.

A marketing fad Paul Davis?

Sheesh!!!

Check out this thread, Paul...

Y2K Glitch Likely To Disrupt Trade: U.S. Official

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 0017SM

And "call" that a marketing fad, if you dare.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 21, 1999.

Davis,

What a lame brain comment. Do you actually believe that Ed Yourdon and Paul Milne convinced the corporations and governments of the entire World to shell out over a trillion dollars on a marketing "fad"? HAH! What an ignoramus.

-- @ (@@@.@), July 21, 1999.

If it were a marketing fad, you'd see more commercials with Y2k splattered all over prime time. If I recall, the Polaroid, Raid, and Kia commercials didn't last too long.

They caught lots of people's attention and got them mentioning the brand/crfeated buzz, which means the commercials accomplished their goal. If it was no big deal to the powers that be, those type of commercials would be running as often as the Taco Bell Chihuaha campaign.

-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), July 21, 1999.

Paul, when, and IF you receive your 401K statement next March, it will become obvious to you just who was taken by a "marketing fad".

-- a (a@a.a), July 21, 1999.

hi, jon, i know how you feel. my daughter is getting married in september, with bridal showers in the summer, and guess what kind of gifts i will give her?

my husband (also named jon)and i are in this mess because he works in the computer services field, and we have been told by his boss "no vacations in december and january". my birthday is january 2, and i certainly hope jon will not have to be at work.

but we are staying positive about the situation and jon is accelerating a couple of inventions he's working on, in the energy field. lord knows, we may need them soon, y2k or no y2k.

-- jocelyne slough (jonslough@tln.net), July 22, 1999.

I stand by what I said 100%. You, however, have misinterpreted my meaning.

Y2K as a computer problem is a manageable problem. It can, and is, being fixed. Disruptions in technology are going to be minimal, not nonexistant, minimal. They will NOT cause massive pain and suffering for long periods.

Y2k as a social problem is MUCH BIGGER than the technical problem of fixing computers/software. And many people have been 'pumping' the market for all it is worth. Check out Adams integrity marketing website for a view from that side of the coin - and remember that it is Y2K newswire he is talking about as his 400K Internet marketing venture.

Look at this phenomena for a minute without the Y2K filters on. HOW did you hear about the Y2K problem? How did you get the idea it was going to be a major change in life in the US? Who told you it would not be solved? And finally, WHY do you distrust the news from traditional news sources or press releases?

If you give honest answers to these questions, you are going to have to admit that you were led down the path by someone with an interest in seeing you take this route. And, you will have to admit that you didn't stop to analyze that interest. And you became convinced that the end of our current way of doing things was at hand, AT BEST. At worst, it was TEOTW.

Now some are convinced that the tech problem is insurmountable. Not many, but a few. But most are out there making a pitch. Enumerate them in your own mind, and decide for yourself.

And you haven't seen anything yet - by the middle of next month the major retailers like WalMart, KMart and Costco will be putting stuff in the aisles with 'Y2K preps' signs on them. Hoo Ha - and the junk they will be handing out will be just totally unbiased and neutral. Just like the Florida land bubble in the 50's. I hear some land down there traded hands 5 times before anyone took a look and found out it was under 6 feet of swamp water.

If all I worried about was the tech problem, I would let loose a blast at certain people that would rattle their back teeth, and you would never hear from me again. The social problem is a stunner, and the aftereffects will be with us YEARS after the technical problem is a fading memory.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), July 22, 1999.