Can it be true? has this forum sunk to censorship? (serious topic)greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
Scary stuff. of late I have noticed a very adversarial tone on this forum (I have lurked and learned for 18 months) now the accusation of censorship has been made. I know the poster is not popular (my personal opinion is that she/he is an idiot) but does that justify censorship? here is the accusation from the Strange Personal Life Goals of the Polly/Troll thread. QUOTE: The path of censorship is a slippery one.
Well, "humpty" there is a good reason my above post makes no sense...see that last little comment in ""? I didn't post it.
Your new forum cens...err..."moderators" chose to add that little comment to my post. I don't know about you, but in my book, that is no different then putting words in someone's mouth.
When EY left this forum, he said he would choose mature responsible people to "take over". And look what they chose to do.
Even Ed Yourdon was not so dispicable as to censor posts just because he didn't agree with them (or like them). Heck, I called him an irresponsible profit-taker, and he didn't delete that (deleting profane posts or personal info is one thing...and I have no problem with that) I have always and will continue to say "put up or shut u[" show your facts that the world is going to go down. I explained why I post here on several occasions, so I won't go into that again.
I'm not even sure this post will survive intact...how does it make the rest of the regulars here know that your words could be added to without your consent?
Think about it. You post a long article that has some optimist points, just to ask what everyone else thinks of it. the forum "moderators" decide they need to 'protect' everyone from such "pollyanna" PR "spin". So they "adjust" the wording...just slightly mind you...enough for effective thought-policing, but nothing substansive.
You, however miss the change in post because it is so long...
Think about it. They can change you posts days or even months after you make them.
Think about it. they can change your every word at a whim...just because they don't "agree" with you!
This place was always in the circle-jerk of fear...no it is the ring leader. At least Lapdog and P-shooter were open about their thought policing...(hmmm...interesting thought. perhaps one of them is a "moderator" now...hmmm...to use Lapdog's words "I would like to see timebomb2000 regulars dis-avow this practice...otherwise your silence can be taken as agreement"....hmmm....)
Congratulations on the new "State" of the stinkbomb forum..I'm sure you are all very proud. I would say more, but I doubt very much it would be left intact.
-- Mutha Nachu (---@mountainstronghold.com), June 06, 1999. END QUOTE (I cut and pasted the source code to leave the emphasis in place) Is this true? Comments?
-- Regular (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 06, 1999
*If* this is true, I'm outta here. A forum moderator has no business adding comments to a post, no matter what their opinion of the material is. It goes against the very reason we all come here.
However, Mutha thinks she is clever enough, and may have added the comments herself, then screamed censorship. Can anyone else verify that this is actually occuring?
BTW - just who IS the moderator these days?
-- another regular (email@example.com?), June 06, 1999.
we've got to get off this paranoid kick and back to discussing prep issuesto have freedom ya gotta put up with the bad as well as the good.tyrany always enters under the guise of convience.reflect;"Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Ben Franklin)
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." (Patrick Henry)
-- zoobie (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 06, 1999.
Hey Mother Nacho, I don't see where it said you added it *after* the fact.
As for your comment about how We are the ones trying to figure out who is posting with what name, try to recall how all of you morons were trying to figure out who DOA was over at Biffy. Hell, CPR thought it was some "Steve" guy who plays with ham radios, and started answering all his posts addressing him as Steve. Those who live in glass houses......
-- DOA (email@example.com), June 06, 1999.
Also see the thread:
"GNIABFI says this forum is self-destructing (humor)"
-- Linkmeister (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 06, 1999.
I personally think a REAL e-mail address requirement would eliminate this kind of bullshit... IMHO...
Ever notice which threads get the most response? The doomer vs. polly rot. Y2k has just about been talked to death. All that is left is argument over personal opinion, IMHO...
New owners of this forum... ARE YOU LISTENING???
waterin' the bushes,
-- Dog (email@example.com), June 06, 1999.
I have enjoyed the many diverse opinions on this thread. Being a newbie,it is a real eye-opener. Here in Canada, we are a bit isolated from news as it is happening.I too have experienced problems with myISP connections and missed the fact that the originater had left. It is astonishing to me how quickly this forum can disintegrate into wrangling, name calling and accusations.What has happened here?
-- Eleanore Mameli (firstname.lastname@example.org`), June 06, 1999.
The wrangling, name calling and accusations are not new. We have always had trolls and troll feeders.
-- Pearlie Sweetcake (email@example.com), June 06, 1999.
I little censorship and discrimination are good things when used judicially, as they have been for hundreds of years. When common sense and decorum fly out the window, you have chaos with no comstructive dialog. That is what leads to foolish talk and endless debate from people who have no solid opinion, but wish to hear themselves talk.
If contributors degrade themselves by deferring to vulgarity and talk that leads others leave the forum, or worse, to a wrong conclusion, then they will have done worse than not being here at all.
A standard should be set and maintained by the moderators so that something constructive can be done here.
If you think a lack of standards and a little discrimination is bad, take a look at music, the arts, politics, advertising, media, and look what it has reaped.
-- Bob P (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 06, 1999.
Eleanore there has been a deliberate attempt to diffuse the Time Bomb 2000 Forum by creating a barrage of disruptions. This is not acceptable. The topic is Y2K and related issues. Read the current About section:
About the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) Forum
greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : Policy
Founded by computer expert and noted author, Ed Yourdon...
This forum is intended for people who are concerned about the impact of the Y2000 problem on their personal lives, and who want to discuss various fallback contingency plans with other like-minded people. It's not intended to provide advice/guidance for solving Y2000 problems within an IT organization.
-- Quiet (Observer@watching.them), June 06, 1999.
"Never get into a pissing contest with a skunk." - unknown (at least to me)
People should keep in mind that there are individuals here whose intent is to disrupt and ultimately destroy this forum. I have no clue to their motivations. Baiting, vulgarity, intellectual dishonesty, and lying to them are merely tools to acomplish their goals.
If a moderator is actually changing posts, that is dishonest. However, claiming that posts are changed and proving so are two different things. How DO you prove it? A dishonest person could fabricate proof easily, after all, it's just groups of 1's and 0's.
I'm reminded of, "I have a list!" - Sen. Joe Mccarthy
-- Ken Seger (email@example.com), June 06, 1999.
On previous threads, I have had imposters use my handle to make sexually obscene threats to other posters. Several Other threads have published my personal information. These types of abuses should be controlled, Mutha and regular. When you reach your teens maybe you will understand.
-- a (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 06, 1999.
Rise so high yet so far to fall
A plan of dignity and balance for all
Political breakthrough, euphoria's high
More borrowed Money, More borrowed Time
Backed in a corner, caught up in the race
Means to and end ended in disgrace
Perspective is lost in the spirit of the chase
Foreclosure of a dream, those visions never seen
Until all is lost, personal holocaust
Foreclosure of a dream.
Barren land once filled a need, lay worthless now
dead without a deed
Slipping away from an iron grip
Nature's scales are forced to tip
The heartland cries, loss of all pride
To leave ain't believing, so try and be tried
Insufficient funds, insanity and suicide!
-- (silent souls le@ve .308 holes), June 06, 1999.
I believe it was the literary critic, Dwight MacDonald, in critiquing something poorly written quipped "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it....just not the way in which you've said it."
-- IPQ (IdProQuo@aol.com), June 06, 1999.
But Mutha, you and your friends wrote this forum off in your yesterday's postings to Gary North is a Big Fat Idiot forum.
1287. Yourdon's forum self destructing quickly now... by Mutha Nachu, Jun 05, 14:22
3. SMILE we're on candid camera manned by idiots by cpr, Jun 05, 23:57
2. The place was over run by survivalist/preparers a year ago by cpr, Jun 05, 18:59
1. Forum is going down hill very quickly by Pat, Jun 05, 18:47
By posting here again do you mean you HAVEN'T given TB2000 up for dead after all?
By the way, Mutha, Quiet says you're also Cherri and Regular. Haven't seen you deny it. ARE you each of them too?
-- OutingsR (email@example.com), June 06, 1999.
Fascinating Mutha whatever...
What's that line in Shakespeare?
"Methinks you doth protest too much!"
Why, I wonder?
You're "on record" at your favorite hangout as wanting to "diffuse" this forum.
Why? I ask.
-- Diane J. Squire (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 06, 1999.
"This place was always in the circle-jerk of fear..no it is the ring leader." I too have thought this, and said so, but not as cleverly. And I've taken my licks for saying it. Of course Y2K is bad, but why all the hand wringing, snot slinging and moaning; prepare and get on with your life. I certainly didn't run blubbering to a higher power to delete those awful folks who blasted me for bruising their sensitivites. As Diogenes said, "The most beautiful thing in the world is freedom of speech."
"To speak his thoughts is every freeman's right, In peace and war, in council and in fight." And, I might add, to speak his thoughts in the manner in which he normally speaks. He shouldn't have to be a grammar major for the pedants, or have to clean up his language for the easily offended, and he should be free to hold an opposite opinion without being flogged.
"A man should never put on his best trousers when he goes out to battle for freedon and truth." Henrik Ibsen, from "An Enemy of the People." Censorship is an enemy of the people. Perhaps the new moderators will institute "The Congregation of Index Expurgatorious," such as Pope IV did in 1559, to sanction what was permissalbe to be read by the public.
-- gilda (email@example.com), June 06, 1999.
this totaly freaks me out are we being watched
bye-bye im gone
-- X-lurker (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 07, 1999.
unsettling precedent, if true
-- oldtimer (email@example.com), June 07, 1999.
bob P,yes,when there is freedom of speech,you will encounter ideas expressed that you will find anathama.That includes music, the arts, politics, advertising,and the media.I'm sure that if you set the standards,you'd never be offended.if I was in charge ,you can bet that the trains will bloody well run on time.the point I'm belabordly trying to make is tyrany always starts under the guise of convienience and good intentions.hitler talked germany into voulantary gun control.don't like rap music?simple,don't listen,no need to trample my freedom.peace.
-- zoobie (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 07, 1999.
to the top for newbies. this is what is in store for you if you disagree.
-- Super Troll (Fu_Q_y2kfreaks@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
So now we have the Biffies and Bunkies sending these stupid threads up to the top "for the newbies." But of course they have nothing but the welfare of the forum at heart. Why don't you assholes go back to your little hog-wallow and leave us the fuck alone?
SYSOPS: This kind of deliberately disruptive behavior by these shit fer brains hooligans is much worse than a little heartfelt profanity or a few off-topic threads.
-- Hallyx (Halyx@aol.com), June 14, 1999.
-- Old Git (email@example.com), June 14, 1999.
Here ya are newbies
-- Back to top (TotheTOP@readthis.com), June 14, 1999.
-- Back to top (TotheTOP@readthis.com), June 16, 1999.
-- beware lurkers (anony@ .mouse), June 21, 1999.
shit, i wish i would have seen this when it happened, now i understand the comments about "leaving trails" made by diane.
we are being traced, aren't we?
any comments on protecting ourselves from this?
-- unbelievable (firstname.lastname@example.org), August 30, 1999.