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In article <3757177a.0@news4.his.com>,
"Bob Brock" <bbrock@i-america.net> wrote:
>
> fedinfo@halifax.com wrote in message <7j6v8v$s1o$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> >In article <7j692h$62e11@mongol.sasknet.sk.ca>,
> > "Todd Cocks" <t.cocks@home.com> wrote:
>
> SNIP
>
> >An asshole pollyanna like dechert or brock or egan deserves the full
> >measure of the consequences. Too bad their families will suffer
because
> >of them.
>
> Paul, please show a post where I have told anyone "not to prepare."
For
> that matter, show a post where I've ridiculed someone for making
rational
> preperations. Also, please show a post where I've said that I'm
unprepared.
> I don't think that you can.
Again brock, you are too stupid for words. One does not need to write the exact words, "Do not prepare" in order to dissuade people from preparation. To a one, ALL of your posts lead any reader to the
conclusion that the work is being well done and that substantial preparation is wholly unecessary.
Sample of YOUR posts:
"Fed says Y2K remediation going swimmingly, Just a Speed Bump" "Big companies getting the job done says Industry shill" "My Bowling Alley is Compliant"
"Village in Himalayas laughs at Millenium Bug"
"Bankers scoff at notion of anyone taking out money"
"We Have spent 1/4 of our budget, but We'll be done on time, Guaranteed" "Greenspan says 'robbers' will take your money"
"Have Three days of Food, More than that and you are an unpatriotic hoarding Communist subject to internment"
Sample of MY articles:
"Iran says it is ONE BILLION SHORT And Hasn't Started" "Venezuela says it is ONE BILLION Short And Hasn't Started" "Russia says it is THREE BILLION Short And Hasn't Started" "EU Deeply concerned about 50 Unremediated Nuclear reactors" "Italy Hasn't Started"
"China has 90% Pirated software"
"Ireland Says small and Medium companies DEVASTATINGLY Off Track" "SEC Filings say Big companies Have wildly underspent" "Report Shows NO major Airport In Europe Close To Ready"
No brock, you disindenuous moron, which group of posts leads one to the conclusion that preparations might be the wise thing?
Additionaly, as to your own preparations, since the character of your posts is such that anyone reading them would not think much of
substantial preparations, your own preparations are at best
schizophrenic. You are no better than Senator Bennett who has given lip service to preparation and scoffing at serous preparations and then goes out and buys 55 gallon water drums for his own home.
The entire character of your presence here has been that Y2K will blow over. Amorphous, undefined but minimal 'problems' of flickering
duration will crop up, none of which will necessitate breaking a sweat to solve.
I have provided news reports that cite EVIDENCE that the job is NOT being done. You post rhetoric, gurantees by shills, but NO EVIDENCE at all.
To all the evidence, you merely respond with the wave of a hand that even if it is so, it still will amount to no more than a speed bump.
So you see, you don't have to ask for anyone to post where you
explicitly said, "Do Not Prepare". The only one that you are fooling is yourself.
--
Paul Milne
If you live within five miles of a 7-11, you're toast.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
|
-- a (a@a.a), June 04, 1999
Answers
a: Thanks for this post and the many others that you have provided to
the Forum that show us, and especially the newbies, True Colors.
Another one bites the dust.
-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@com.net), June 04, 1999.
I have read many of Paul's posts and have found that they are on target. His so called detractors have virtually failed to provide any reasonable response.
Ray
-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), June 04, 1999.
In fact, Milne has generated a wealth of reasonable responses. Of
course, 'a' somehow never chooses to cross-post *any* of them.
Why do you suppose this is? Does 'a' want people to see the whole
picture, or does he want to restrict our information to the rants of
a single lunatic? He's answered that endlessly. Maybe 'a' thinks
(sic) that a single, demented viewpoint is the road to the Truth?
I agree about the True Colors, though. The face of the True Doomer is
a sight to see: glazed eyes and spittle. I wonder if 'a' even
realizes that his selective posting drives off all but the lunatic
fringe, who wouldn't know reasonable if it bit them.
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 04, 1999.
Who are you kidding Flint. You never post opinions that support your
own now do you? That's right, nobody would do that right? Just
because Milne and you got into it so often a while back doesn't mean
you should ignore basic fundamental tenants of Human Nature. Don't go
flamin 'a' over selectivity. I do it, you do it, we all do it.
-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@com.net), June 04, 1999.
Flint, put your money where your mouth is. You cross post them. Were all waiting!!
Your Pal, Ray
-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), June 04, 1999.
Thanks "a". *Sigh*, I knew that sooner or later, the longer I hung
around on this forum, that I would eventually become demented, glazed
eyed and have poor table manners.
Well, I guess I can find some consolidation of being in good company:
Mr. Milne, the reporter who posted those silly stories about Russia
and Ireland and China. And those lunatics who gave those stories to
the reporters based on their observations. Or maybe they just made it
all up...wouldn't that be really nice?
And Flint, I honestly forget, but how long have you prepared for?
Seems as I recall you are preparing?
-- Lilly (homesteader145@yahoo.com), June 04, 1999.
a:
Are you the same *a* whose father printed that letter so? If so, when
did you start posting Paul Milne's responses in this fashion? When I
posted messages back in March, I didn't recall any such linkages. Now
that I've returned to the post-Yourdon message board, there seems to
be a growing assemblage of these messages.
Paul seems to be in such a hurry that he doesn't bother with
correcting any misspelled words. I'm certain this irritates picky
posters. Sounds like he's very busy with his gardening and weeding.
And I don't mean plants only. :)
Do you intend to continue posting them until the stock market
crashes?
Randolph
(This is my middle name; it doesn't seem to be common to this message
board, so I'll try using it. Randolph is my grandfather.)
-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), June 04, 1999.
Flint:
A pollyanna is nothing but a selfish Human being.
In light of this statement, is there any way you could be a little
more pro-active and disprove the above statements truth.
With such incredible odds against the Worlds chance to remediate the
Y2K bug, why do you choose to paddle upsteam? The attempts of the
average G.I. is to make sure we all have enough food to last through
an undefined amount of time. I'm sure you have the fortitude to see
through radicals and maintain focus on the real needs of this country.
Pollyanna's generally nitpick and give nada to the general public by-
in-large. Not one of you polly's have the gift to give life or an
extension thereof. WE, the G.I.'s are attempting (whether you choose
to believe it or not) to help feed our country and prevent the panic
buys that will result if not forewarned sooner than later. People like
you who get in the way of us doing our job will be considered the
conglomerates of bad karma.Now get out of the way if you will, please
sir...Take Y2kPro(cadet), Mr. Decker, Norm, Anita and the rest of the
lazy, good for squat, american starvers with you.
-- Feller (feller@wanna.help), June 04, 1999.
Flint commented:
"I agree about the True Colors, though. The face of the True Doomer is a sight to see: glazed eyes and spittle. I wonder if 'a' even realizes that his selective posting drives off all but the lunatic fringe, who wouldn't know reasonable if it bit them. "
Flint, you really are losing it. Take a break, go to the movies, pack a few more 5 gallon buckets, talk to a friend. Let me know how you are feeling tomorrow.
Your Pal, Ray
-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), June 04, 1999.
Hi, Flint:
I've always been interested in reading your messages. Your writing
and reasoning abilities are top notch. However, I'm a pessimist by
nature along the lines of Leonardo da Vinci. The brilliance of genius
is often dulled by constant scruffing against mediocrity.
But I'm no genius, just a lowly factory worker. BigDog mentioned he
thought you were an engineer. Well, I've talked to the engineers at
my place of employment, and they're chronic Pollyannas. They are
totally confident in their abilities to work through problems and
don't see any major troubles occurring regarding Y2K. They are not
preparing because they are prepared mentally. Can you say Engineering
Change Notice successfully implemented?
Please continue posting, as usual, for the enlightenment of other
engineers. (They need this sort of back patting, you know...) :)
-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), June 04, 1999.
I'll say it again, professional polly/trolls are I and Me people, NOT
We and Us people. We and Us people know that things dont beggin or
end with us. We and Us people care about family/friends and
generations yet unborn. We and Us people also know what we are
because we know where we came from in respect to family/cultural
history. I and Me people are Jacobin Egalitarians and live by that
imfamous saying from the French Revolution "liberty, fraternity,
equality or Death". They greatly wish that we are all made equal in
death. They also emote about the general but hate the paticular.
Mankind (woymn kind?) vs individuals (families and friends)
Flint, Decker, Maria, Poole (the reprobate), Jimmybagga, y2kperson,
Davis etc, etc Shame! The Emperor wears no clothes!
Deo Vindicie!,
BR
-- brother rat (rldabney@usa.net), June 04, 1999.
Rob:
You're quite right, I post my own opinions. Of course, my opinions
are subject to change as time progresses and circumstances change.
I'm attacking 'a' because he's not posting his own opinions at all.
As Anita wrote, Paul Milne is well aware of this forum. If he wanted
to post here, he would.
Yes, I've cross-posted a couple of things from csy2k, and some of
them have been horror stories of totally bungled remediation
projects. If I think it has the ring of truth to it, and provides
real insights, I'll cross-post it. But I don't overdo it.
If 'a' wanted us to read Milne's opinions (and he does), why not just
post a link to csy2k? The same Milne post is there, that's where it
came from. The most likely reason I can think of is that 'a' doesn't
*want* us to see the responses Milne got in csy2k, many of which are
well-researched and well-presented.
And while I'm at it, I have the same problem with Norm. Hey Norm,
listen, a link will save a lot of bandwidth. If you have an opinion,
express it. We can all go over to the year-2000 information center
and read those articles anytime.
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 04, 1999.
Flint: My opinions are also subject to change. As you may know, I
have changed opinions on some things as a result of what I
consider well thought out arguments and facts. Nothing is static.
Perhaps 'a' will answer you with regard to the well-researched
responses you think were not included, or will post them here.
-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@com.net), June 04, 1999.
p.s. As far as Paul posting here, you know as well as I do that he
comes and goes, and sometimes stays for periods of days/weeks on this
forum. For those who post on more than one forum, I guess it is a
personal choice as to what they will post or cross post where, and
don't think we can 'read' much into it.
-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@com.net), June 04, 1999.
Flint,
Get over it, OK? So Milne torched you on csy2k... are you going to
sullenly attack everytime you see his opinions or name posted here?
Try being a man about it, instead of a spoiled little boy who thinks
he's too smart to ever be wrong. If you wish to cross-post any of the
wonderful replies to Milne on this forum, then by all means do so.
But quit whining when 'a' posts something from Milne.
-- Nabi Davidson (nabi7@yahoo.com), June 05, 1999.
Nabi,
Flint can't leave it alone; he's gotta a real hardon for Milne, as
his posts over the last few hours shows:
*********************
Will continue:
You're quite right. Some people *do* know for sure. Paul
Milne is one of them. In fact, there's a long list of
things he's known for sure. Every last one of them was
hilariously dead wrong, but that didn't prevent him from
knowing for sure.
I guess you've volunteered to join the "I know for sure" club.
Bradley Sherman has set up a web site for your
predictions. Why don't you go there and post them. If you think
what Milne posts are 'facts' (hehehe HAW
HAW HAW! [snort!]) you should give his predictions some pretty
good competetion. Give it a try.
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 04, 1999.
*********************
Will continue:
Here we go again. I personally don't believe ANY large organization
will be compliant within the next decade. I
just don't think it's possible. Any declaration of compliance, I
regard as nothing more than self-serving PR. I
believe that anyone who 'expects' to be ready is simply saying
what their lawyers tell them to say. It ain't gonna
happen. These y2k bugs are too common, and many of them are too
tricky, and fixes introduce new problems,
and the job is too big. They won't finish.
But that isn't the question, much as Milne seems successful
in twisting your mind into asking it. The real questions
are, how close will we get? To what degree are problems being
found and fixed? When they strike (and they will,
no question about it), how manageable will they be? How long will
they last? What workarounds will we be able
to find?
Big organizations have computer problems constantly. They fix them,
they live with them, they suffer from them,
all the time. When y2k bugs start biting faster than they have to
date (and I believe the reports that say they've
been biting already, quite a few of them), how successfully will
we manage to keep up with them?
Milne hasn't told any lies, but he's distorted reality
beyond recognition. He's got people thinking that anything less
than 100% compliant means catastrophe. And this simply isn't so.
When Milne issues is challenge ad nauseum to
name ONE whatever, he's implying that any organization that isn't
100% finished is 100% doomed. This is simply
wrong.
Most of us are preparing so as to be better able to ride out a
period of difficulties. The greater the degree of
difficulty we expect, the more we prepare. If we expect a
long-duration infrastructure breakdown, we buy seeds
and farmland. If we expect riots, we move to areas of low
population density. If we expect depression, we try to
conserve our wealth and transfer it to where (we hope) it will
hold its value best. For many (maybe most) of us,
the assumption implicit in our preparations is that things will
be back up and running sooner or later. Yourdon
says screwups for a year and a lousy economy for a decade. But
Yourdon's book starts out by saying you must
gear your preparations to the *type* of problem you expect. Not
just the *size* of the problem, but the nature of
it as well.
What I'm trying to do is determine what's most *likely* to go
wrong, so that my preparations are most
appropriate. I regard Milne's prediction that *everything*
will go wrong, and stay wrong forever, as vanishingly
unlikely. I try to point out that the only way he can justify
such a prediction is by systematic distortion, as I just
explained. I try to point out also that his methods have led to
his being wrong about *everything*, all his life. I'd
prefer methods that have a better track record.
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 04, 1999.
*********************
Mac:
Yes, the technique has its uses. Without question, there *is*
something there. There have been too many reports
from very knowledgeable, involved people to deny it.
What the technique doesn't do is let us quantify anything. We can
assign a high probability to something being
there, but we can't learn how *much* is there.
My favorite Heinlein quote (I think from Time Enough For Love) is:
"differences are important. We know one
horse can run faster than another, but *which one*?"
It's differences that fuel the y2k debate. We know problems are
coming, but *how bad*? Very few optimists (if
any) claim nothing will happen. Quite a few like Milne and
his fellow travellers can't see the difference between all
and nothing. To them, an extremely wide spectrum consists of only
two points: Mine and wrong.
What we'll get, of course, is a little of everything.
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 04, 1999.
*********************
Feller:
This is very good information. It gives us a feel for the vast
complexity of what we're dealing, at least a little bit.
And it's complex indeed. As I'm sure you are aware, there are
many such surveys (of mostly the same people,
even), and all produce very different results depending on what
was asked.
Fixing complex systems and making them work together well enough
just isn't a matter of simple truth vs. lies as
simpletons like Ray seem to 'think'. I think most such surveys
find the percentage of organizations which have
already experienced y2k problems to be much higher. And 71% of
tests having found bugs sounds wrong -- I
should certainly hope that 100% of tests find bugs. There are
always bugs, and if the tests aren't finding them,
they are bad tests.
Another point: the ITAA surveys IT people, and that's where the
biggest problems lie. And they, like everyone,
tends to exaggerate the global importance of what they do for a
living. After all, they spend all day at it every day.
It's what they know.
Realistically, I can't imagine *any* large company or government
organization ever reaching compliance, much
less reaching it in time. The 'compliance' issue is born of
binary thinking. Instead, what remediation and testing do
is reduce an organization's exposure. This can't be reduced to
zero, and no amount of compliance declarations or
lack of such declarations is going to change this. In practice,
the goal of remediation and testing is to contain the
bugs within manageable limits. Fix on failure and contingency
planning are intended to boost the containment
capability.
Don't be fooled by the Milne presumption that nothing lies
between 100% compliant and 100% defunct. All of
life falls between these extremes. Few of us scored 100 on every
test in school, yet most of us graduated. And
we continue through life the same way, doing our best and falling
short of perfect but no so far short that we can't
function at all.
So 'compliant' is a very relative term, much like 'clean' or 'tall'
or 'healthy'. And if we achieve our goal, and the
bugs are manageable for the most part, we've come close enough.
Yes, times might be hard for a while. But
'hard' is relative too.
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 04, 1999.
*********************
Flint HATES Milne because Paul doesn't kiss his egocentric ass like
Flint thinks he and everyone else oughta. You're as transparent as
glass, Flint, you big-brained asshole!
-- Pollyslayer (pollys@flint.asshole), June 05, 1999.
Thanks, Paul. As always, you truly describe things aptly.
site: www.y2ksafeminnesota.com
-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), June 05, 1999.
OK everybody - on three, let's pile on Flint :)
Flint: The issue is not 100% compliance, and you and I and Milne know
that. C.s.y2k is full of posts by Milne, some which I have referenced
over the months, where he clearly says that. As of June 4, 1999 the
issues are very plain:
- The remediation, on a global scale, and as a whole, has failed
miserably. Now I know that went in one ear and out the other so lets
repeat it. The remediation, on a global scale, as a whole has
failed miserably.
- There is an organized effort to keep this information from becoming
public knowledge. Don't think so? Go talk to some co-workers. Mine
all think y2k was over months ago. Virtually none have prepared.
- There is precious little time left for the rest of the 250 million
people in this country, let alone the 6 billion worldwide, to gather
some semblance of preparations. Nothing like what you've amassed, of
course, but basic essentials for a couple months. And thanks to the
late hour, and dissuasion by the likes of you, there will not be
enough to go around for even a fraction of them. But that's OK cause
you're sitting pretty, right?
So go to hell. Did that offend you? Too damn bad. If you consider
that uncivilized behavior, wait'll you see what's just around the
corner. Get a grip. The typical Post y2k world ain't gonna be a
bunch of Mr. Deckers, I can tell you that.
Rudolph: yes that was me. It was an interesting synchronicity that
you asked at the time you did. And yes, I plan to continue posting
alarming things as long as I find the situation to be alarming. And
yes Flint, they're FACTS.
-- a (a@a.a), June 05, 1999.
Wow. Licking Milne's ass seems to be a tag-team sport. Too bad none
of the team members can think for themselves -- except, how could it
possibly be otherwise?
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 05, 1999.
I think you miss the point Flint. Many of the regular posters to this
forum are actually trolls. They understand that their poor
argumentation, and in the case of 'A' constantly reposting Milne's
dross is actualy underming the GI's hope of getting people to prepare.
Read many of the posts from this perspective, and it all begins to
make sense.
-- Joe Six-Pack (Average@Joe.Blow), June 05, 1999.
Flint posted this on another thread yesterday --
"Yes, pollys are so abusive, and everyone wonders why."
Then today he posts --
"Wow. Licking Milne's ass seems to be a tag-team sport. Too bad
none of the team
members can think for themselves -- except, how could it possibly
be otherwise?"
So what you're saying is, Flint, it's okay for a polly to be so
abusive but it's not okay for anyone else? Or are you saying when a
polly is so abusive we should say, Thank you very much, have a nice
day, may I stop a bullet for you?
-- OutingsR (us@here.yar), June 05, 1999.
Is you intention for this to become a mirror site to CSY2k? While I
won't debate the same issues with Paul in two different forums at the
same time, I will start inserting my responses to Paul in CSY2k to
the articles in this forum so that the entire issue can be seen and
not just Paul's side of it.
It's not what I want to start doing and I don't think it's what a lot
of you want to see happen. I'd prefer to limit my posts in this
forum to adding constructive comments/suggestions to the survivalism
articles so I'll ask you (triple "a" with an "@") to do this for me.
If you want to post Paul's ideas/rhetoric post snips of those parts
of the post in CSY2k and leave me personally out of it. That way you
guys can discuss them here without my becomming involved. I think
that way you could still do what you want to do and I won't be
personally included. If you continue posting reply's to my posts
(including my text) from another fourm or Paul's snide comments about
me in this fourm I will do what I have to do to defend my side of the
conversation.
The choice, as well as the consequences, are your responsibility.
-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), June 05, 1999.
I've never understood it, and I STILL don't understand it. There is
absolutely NO forum left on the net wherein folks can obtain a clear
picture of what may unfold in Y2k.
THIS forum seems committed to preparedness, and I've heard folks cite
the "ABOUT THIS FORUM" often enough. Yet, I see many regulars
engaging in discussions on the general status of Y2k, or off topic
subjects. Of course if someone (like myself) interjects a few
thoughts, I'm immediately labeled a Polyanna.
I have to hand it to ya, Flint. I simply don't have your tolerance
for abuse (particularly the abuse of Ray.)
Other fora (BFI and Doc Paulie's) slant in the OTHER direction. I
pointed this out there in my post entitled Swamp vs. Swamp...which is
now on page two of their list. I think what many folks on Yourdon's
forum don't realize is that many of those folks on BFI and Doc
Paulie's fora were once in the same state of which many here find
themselves today. They chose to research further, however, and found
conflicting information that they addressed.
You brought up a great thought, Flint, when you addressed how firms
were to be remediated at end of 1998 and have a full year for testing.
I've seen this one bastardized so much that I feel I must comment on
it. It's true that we have no idea whether these firms were
completely remediated in December, 1998 or had one program left, 100
programs left, or 1000 programs left. Yet, when estimates of
compliance are pushed from June to September, folks immediately
assume that this leaves only 3 months to test. This is NOT true.
If, indeed, firms were remediated at end of December, 1998 (although
left untested), and they expected to be completed by May or June with
testing, yet found problems in perhaps 1 system that extended that
date, there is absolutely NO reason to believe that the testing
concluded in January through June didn't occur. It DID, and perhaps
99% of their systems were debugged within this timeframe, but the
last system showed more problems. It needn't be concluded that the
remaining systems interface with the systems previously tested, yet
it needn't be concluded that they don't, so everything may very well
need to be retested. Additional problems MAY occur. This does NOT
mean that firms are left with only 3 months (or whatever) to test.
More data comes forth each day on how things stand. If we only
concentrate on the bad news and dismiss the good news, or ASSUME that
reports like those of Weiss are based on facts (without further
research), the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the world
will come to a screeching halt and that we need to spent multi-
dollars that we may not have in preparedness. If we allow open-
thought, however, we'll see that there's a WHOLE middle range of
things that could happen.
I have NO problems with the plans of Paul Milne, nor have I a problem
with the preparedness plans of others on this forum. We all do what
we feel best to preserve our loved ones. I DO have a problem,
however, with ANY progress in remediation immediately dismissed as
being posted by a Polyanna. As I once mentioned to Lisa (in another
post), if you promote dishonesty, you're simply telling the world
that you're a bunch of close-minded kooks. If you promote honesty,
folks will listen and prepare for whatever they see fit, which (in
all honesty) varies from location to location.
Anita
-- Anita Spooner (spoonera@msn.com), June 05, 1999.
Hey Bob, why don't you just jump in an show us why these two posts by Paul are full of hot air. You guys slay me. Here we have two posts from someone who you attack continuously and NOT ONE of you trolls rebuke a word of it.
Ray
-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), June 05, 1999.
Flint is a class 'A' moron. And has been from day one. No matter what
I post you can be sure that flint-boy will be there in otrder to
detract.
His posts are REPLETE with comments about me. Not the issues.
Flint lives in a heavily populated area. He knows full well that
whatever preparations he has made are virtually moot. Early on I told
him that he was dead meat in the poulated area that he refused to
exit. This is very very disturbing to him. And it is the source of
his antagonism to me.
He knows FULL well that to remain is suicide. He KNOWS that he is in
deep shit. But, if this were so, he would not be able to sleep at
night. So, he attacks the messenger. He can not pyschologically and
rationally remain intact if he holds two conflicting beliefs at the
same time.
1. I will remain in a populated area and still be safe.
2. Y2K will cause societal collapse.
So he MUST eliminate one or the other. But not on the basis of
truth. On the basis of what HE has opted to do. On the basis of what
fits his paradigm. He refuses to move, therefore, #2 MUST be wrong
and he will be able to remain.
But this does not in any way square with the facts at this point in
time. And the ONLY thing that he can bolster himself with is " No oN
can know what is going to happen."
And I say that is categorically false. We can not know the exact
method of the unfilding of events, but we can be very sure of the
consequences as a whole.
Think about what would happen to flint if he recognized or realized
that he could not sustain himself where he was. He would have to
panic. Panic is the natural result of the unprepared in a desparate
situation when it is too late. So flint engages in 'whistling past
the graveyard' by attacking me.
He makes NO original posts ciing the EVIDENCE of what is going on
around the world. He only carps and potshoots at those whose comments
bring home the realization that HE is in deep shit where he is.
He masks this in the guise of being the devil's advocate and the
voice of moderation, but he is not in the least bit moderate. He is
virtually insensate as long as the conclusion remains in his mind
that nobody knows. THAT way he can remain where he is and not find
himself culpable for having exited before it is too late. It is how
he comforts himself, by telling himself that nobody knows.....nobody
knows.....nobody knows.
No skin off my nose.
-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), June 05, 1999.
OK Ray, but when the whining begins I'm sending them to you ant "a".
Begin quotes:
-------------
fedinfo@halifax.com wrote in message <7j8jd3$cf6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>In article <3757177a.0@news4.his.com>,
> "Bob Brock" wrote:
>>
>> fedinfo@halifax.com wrote in message
<7j6v8v$s1o$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>> >In article <7j692h$62e11@mongol.sasknet.sk.ca>,
>> > "Todd Cocks" wrote:
SNIP
>Again brock, you are too stupid for words. One does not need to write
>the exact words, "Do not prepare" in order to dissuade people from
>preparation. To a one, ALL of your posts lead any reader to the
>conclusion that the work is being well done and that substantial
>preparation is wholly unecessary.
>
>Sample of YOUR posts:
>
>"Fed says Y2K remediation going swimmingly, Just a Speed Bump"
>"Big companies getting the job done says Industry shill"
>"My Bowling Alley is Compliant"
>"Village in Himalayas laughs at Millenium Bug"
>"Bankers scoff at notion of anyone taking out money"
>"We Have spent 1/4 of our budget, but We'll be done on time,
Guaranteed"
>"Greenspan says 'robbers' will take your money"
>"Have Three days of Food, More than that and you are an unpatriotic
>hoarding Communist subject to internment"
I never posted these articles.
>Sample of MY articles:
>
>"Iran says it is ONE BILLION SHORT And Hasn't Started"
>"Venezuela says it is ONE BILLION Short And Hasn't Started"
>"Russia says it is THREE BILLION Short And Hasn't Started"
>"EU Deeply concerned about 50 Unremediated Nuclear reactors"
>"Italy Hasn't Started"
>"China has 90% Pirated software"
>"Ireland Says small and Medium companies DEVASTATINGLY Off Track"
>"SEC Filings say Big companies Have wildly underspent"
>"Report Shows NO major Airport In Europe Close To Ready"
Accuracy seems to have improved somewhat (including "spin")
>
>
>No brock, you disindenuous moron, which group of posts leads one to
the
>conclusion that preparations might be the wise thing?
At least you admit that the intent of your posts is to manipulate
people.
That's an improvement.
>
>Additionaly, as to your own preparations, since the character of your
>posts is such that anyone reading them would not think much of
>substantial preparations, your own preparations are at best
>schizophrenic. You are no better than Senator Bennett who has given
lip
>service to preparation and scoffing at serous preparations and then
>goes out and buys 55 gallon water drums for his own home.
My lifestyle existed long before Y2k became an issue. I do it
because I
like it. Why do you guys make so much of a 55 gallon water drum?
That's
only a two week supply for four people?
>
>The entire character of your presence here has been that Y2K will
blow
>over. Amorphous, undefined but minimal 'problems' of flickering
>duration will crop up, none of which will necessitate breaking a
sweat
>to solve.
I think that people should look at all sides of an issue when making a
decision. A principle that you don't agree with. I've never derided
those
who reach a different conclusion from me. Can you say the same?
>
>I have provided news reports that cite EVIDENCE that the job is NOT
>being done. You post rhetoric, gurantees by shills, but NO EVIDENCE
at
>all.
What is it about looking at all of the facets of an issue that you
are so
afraid of? If my posts are really "NO EVIDENCE at all", by are you so
obsessed that you post about me constantly not only in this forum,
but in
others as well? The fact that you have used the same type of
articles and
logic to reach incorrect conclusions in the not too recent past is
well
documented
>
>To all the evidence, you merely respond with the wave of a hand that
>even if it is so, it still will amount to no more than a speed bump.
As more and more milestones are being met, my opinion about what will
happen
becomes less and less. People who form an inflexable stance on a
fluid
situation are setting themselves up to be wrong again.
>
>So you see, you don't have to ask for anyone to post where you
>explicitly said, "Do Not Prepare". The only one that you are fooling
is
>yourself.
I take it that this means that you couldn't find it. Thanks for the
admission...
[and Milne replied]
Bob Brock wrote in message <375856ff.0@news4.his.com>...
>
>fedinfo@halifax.com wrote in message <7j8jd3$cf6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>>In article <3757177a.0@news4.his.com>,
>> "Bob Brock" wrote:
>>>
>>> fedinfo@halifax.com wrote in message
<7j6v8v$s1o$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>>> >In article <7j692h$62e11@mongol.sasknet.sk.ca>,
>>> > "Todd Cocks" wrote:
>
>
>SNIP
>
>>Again brock, you are too stupid for words. One does not need to
write
>>the exact words, "Do not prepare" in order to dissuade people from
>>preparation. To a one, ALL of your posts lead any reader to the
>>conclusion that the work is being well done and that substantial
>>preparation is wholly unecessary.
>>
>>Sample of YOUR posts:
>>
>>"Fed says Y2K remediation going swimmingly, Just a Speed Bump"
>>"Big companies getting the job done says Industry shill"
>>"My Bowling Alley is Compliant"
>>"Village in Himalayas laughs at Millenium Bug"
>>"Bankers scoff at notion of anyone taking out money"
>>"We Have spent 1/4 of our budget, but We'll be done on time,
Guaranteed"
>>"Greenspan says 'robbers' will take your money"
>>"Have Three days of Food, More than that and you are an unpatriotic
>>hoarding Communist subject to internment"
>
>I never posted these articles.
>
I see that sarcasm is wasted on you.
>>Sample of MY articles:
>>
>>"Iran says it is ONE BILLION SHORT And Hasn't Started"
>>"Venezuela says it is ONE BILLION Short And Hasn't Started"
>>"Russia says it is THREE BILLION Short And Hasn't Started"
>>"EU Deeply concerned about 50 Unremediated Nuclear reactors"
>>"Italy Hasn't Started"
>>"China has 90% Pirated software"
>>"Ireland Says small and Medium companies DEVASTATINGLY Off Track"
>>"SEC Filings say Big companies Have wildly underspent"
>>"Report Shows NO major Airport In Europe Close To Ready"
>
>Accuracy seems to have improved somewhat (including "spin")
>>
>>
>>No brock, you disindenuous moron, which group of posts leads one to
the
>>conclusion that preparations might be the wise thing?
>
>At least you admit that the intent of your posts is to manipulate
people.
>That's an improvement.
Again, brock, you giant lying ass, I made no such 'admission'.
>>
>>Additionaly, as to your own preparations, since the character of
your
>>posts is such that anyone reading them would not think much of
>>substantial preparations, your own preparations are at best
>>schizophrenic. You are no better than Senator Bennett who has given
lip
>>service to preparation and scoffing at serous preparations and then
>>goes out and buys 55 gallon water drums for his own home.
>
>My lifestyle existed long before Y2k became an issue. I do it
because I
>like it. Why do you guys make so much of a 55 gallon water drum?
That's
>only a two week supply for four people?
The issue, moron is that Bennett poo poos serious preparations.
>>
>>The entire character of your presence here has been that Y2K will
blow
>>over. Amorphous, undefined but minimal 'problems' of flickering
>>duration will crop up, none of which will necessitate breaking a
sweat
>>to solve.
>
>I think that people should look at all sides of an issue when making
a
>decision. A principle that you don't agree with. I've never
derided those
>who reach a different conclusion from me. Can you say the same?
>>
>>I have provided news reports that cite EVIDENCE that the job is NOT
>>being done. You post rhetoric, gurantees by shills, but NO EVIDENCE
at
>>all.
>
>What is it about looking at all of the facets of an issue that you
are so
>afraid of?
Nothing. I most assuredly HAVE looked at both sides. The evidence is
OVERWHELMING, to an HONEST person.
If my posts are really "NO EVIDENCE at all", by are you so
>obsessed that you post about me constantly not only in this forum,
but in
>others as well? The fact that you have used the same type of
articles and
>logic to reach incorrect conclusions in the not too recent past is
well
>documented
No obsession. Just a marked dislike for rabid liars and spinmeisters.
>>
>>To all the evidence, you merely respond with the wave of a hand that
>>even if it is so, it still will amount to no more than a speed bump.
>
>As more and more milestones are being met, my opinion about what will
happen
>becomes less and less.
Less and less are being met and we have had THREE surveys in the last
week
pointing out that various countries are slipping their milestones.
ireland,
Canada and New Zealand.
People who form an inflexable stance on a fluid
>situation are setting themselves up to be wrong again.
>>
It is not in the LEAST bit fluid.
>>So you see, you don't have to ask for anyone to post where you
>>explicitly said, "Do Not Prepare". The only one that you are
fooling is
>>yourself.
>
>I take it that this means that you couldn't find it. Thanks for the
>admission...
>
>
>
I did not need to find it. You 'exude' it. You are a disingenuous
lying
scumbag. But there is NOBODY who frequents this ng who does not know
that.
Paul Milne
[and I replied back]
Paul Milne wrote in message <928536889.286486@helium.cstone.net>...
>
>Bob Brock wrote in message <375856ff.0@news4.his.com>...
>>
>>fedinfo@halifax.com wrote in message <7j8jd3$cf6
$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>>>In article <3757177a.0@news4.his.com>,
>>> "Bob Brock" wrote:
>>>>
>>>> fedinfo@halifax.com wrote in message
<7j6v8v$s1o$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>>>> >In article <7j692h$62e11@mongol.sasknet.sk.ca>,
>>>> > "Todd Cocks" wrote:
>>
>>
>>SNIP
>>
SNIP
>I see that sarcasm is wasted on you.
No Paul, it's you that it's wasted on.
SNIP
>>>No brock, you disindenuous moron, which group of posts leads one
to the
>>>conclusion that preparations might be the wise thing?
Since you admit that one list was "sarcasm" any comparison would be
illogical.
>>
>>At least you admit that the intent of your posts is to manipulate
people.
>>That's an improvement.
>
>
>Again, brock, you giant lying ass, I made no such 'admission'.
Really?
>
>
>
>>>
>>>Additionaly, as to your own preparations, since the character of
your
>>>posts is such that anyone reading them would not think much of
>>>substantial preparations, your own preparations are at best
>>>schizophrenic. You are no better than Senator Bennett who has
given lip
>>>service to preparation and scoffing at serous preparations and then
>>>goes out and buys 55 gallon water drums for his own home.
>>
>>My lifestyle existed long before Y2k became an issue. I do it
because I
>>like it. Why do you guys make so much of a 55 gallon water drum?
That's
>>only a two week supply for four people?
>
>The issue, moron is that Bennett poo poos serious preparations.
I wouldn't consider one 55 gallon barrel of water "serious
preperations."
Do you?
SNIP
>>What is it about looking at all of the facets of an issue that you
are so
>>afraid of?
>
>Nothing. I most assuredly HAVE looked at both sides. The evidence is
>OVERWHELMING, to an HONEST person.
Why do you fear others looking at it? Is it because you think that
you know
better about what's good for them than they do? Is presenting only
one side
of an issue a fair way to allow someone to make an informed
decision? I
don't think so.
>
>
> If my posts are really "NO EVIDENCE at all", by are you so
>>obsessed that you post about me constantly not only in this forum,
but in
>>others as well? The fact that you have used the same type of
articles and
>>logic to reach incorrect conclusions in the not too recent past is
well
>>documented
>
>
>No obsession. Just a marked dislike for rabid liars and spinmeisters.
Paul, let's leave your low self esteem out of it. That's really a
personal
problem better left out of public discussions.
>
>
>>>
>>>To all the evidence, you merely respond with the wave of a hand
that
>>>even if it is so, it still will amount to no more than a speed
bump.
>>
>>As more and more milestones are being met, my opinion about what
will
>happen
>>becomes less and less.
>
>Less and less are being met and we have had THREE surveys in the
last week
>pointing out that various countries are slipping their milestones.
ireland,
>Canada and New Zealand.
Countries don't slip milestones. Projects miss milestones. Which
projects
and which milestones? What were the impacts of the missed
milestones? You
and the surveys say so little as to be useless.
>
>
> People who form an inflexable stance on a fluid
>>situation are setting themselves up to be wrong again.
>>>
>
>It is not in the LEAST bit fluid.
See what I mean!
>>>So you see, you don't have to ask for anyone to post where you
>>>explicitly said, "Do Not Prepare". The only one that you are
fooling is
>>>yourself.
>>
>>I take it that this means that you couldn't find it. Thanks for the
>>admission...
>>
>>
>>
>
>I did not need to find it. You 'exude' it. You are a disingenuous
lying
>scumbag. But there is NOBODY who frequents this ng who does not
know that.
Only those who fear looking at all of the information on the issue
and are
unwilling to adapt to a fluid and changing situation. That would be
those
like yourself Paul.
>
>
>
>Paul Milne
What...no toast?
---------------
End quotes
Now wasn't that fun? It's not what I want to do, but it's what I
will do if necessary.
-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), June 05, 1999.
Hey Ray, did you ever see that Far Side cartoon where the woman is
talking to her dog, saying "You're a bad dog Rover! Why did you
chew my shoe Rover! That does it Rover! No more dog treats for you
Rover!" and the next panel, titled "What the dog hears" has her
saying "Blah blah blah Rover! Blah blah blah blah Rover! Blah
blah Rover! Blah blah blah Rover!" Reminds me of Flint and Brock:
"Blah blah blah Milne! Blah blah blah blah Milne! Blah blah
Milne! Blah blah blah Milne!"
-- a (a@a.a), June 05, 1999.
Triple "a" with an "@",
That was such a well thought out and clever response. Is it
indicative of all of your reasoning abilities? If so, I can see why
you don't use your real name.
No wonder you idealize Milne.
-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), June 05, 1999.
Hey Bob-o, you managed to spam us but could you please just address the two Milne posts earlier in the thread. PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
Your Pal, Ray
-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), June 05, 1999.
What a great thread.
Way to go, guys. Way to re-arrange deck chairs on the Titanic.
-- glug (glug@glug.glug), June 05, 1999.
Ray, Paul attributes me posting articles that I didn't post. Later
says it was sarcasm and then tries to compare the two lists to draw a
conclusion. He tries to make an issue that storing a 55 gallon drum
of water amounts to significant preperation. He also says that Y2k
is not a fluid situation and the outcome has been predetermined so
there is no need to look at any other information other than what
supports his meme.
What's to refute?
-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), June 05, 1999.
Here's why Paul Milne is actually the selfish human being, and Ray and
little brother "a"-hole are sub-moronic boot-licking peons of his.
Paul Milne sells "information" on NOT paying taxes, then files
and STEALS OUR money anyway! The lying rat-bastard admits
it on this thread. ask yourself, what sort of people would support a
twisted parasite like this.
answer? Ray and "a".
[snip]
I will be glad to answer you Davis. Just to show you how egregiously
perverted the federal tax structure is, I will tell you EXACTLY
what I
do.
My 'income' (which is not income at all) is below the threshold
for
paying ANY Federal tax, at all, because of the number of my
dependents. On TOP of that, there is an earned income credit of
$3500
dollars that I apply for, and RECEIVE every year.
So, to set you straight, not only do I *absolutely* fill out the
bogus
documentation and pay NO Federal tax, I actually collect $3500
that I
NEVER paid in in the first place.
Thanks to suckers like you.
Why WOULDN'T I file under those circumstances?
But, what I do or do not do is NOT the issue at all. The issue is
that the
graduated income tax, as levied, does not fall into EITHER of the
ONLY
two legitimate classes of tax as clearly specified in the
Constitution.
It is NOT direct, becuae it is not apportioned and it is not
indirect
because it is not levied on the basis of being an excise, duty or
impost.
But, these things are beyond your comprehension and intellectual
capabilities. I suggest that you go buy some more flags and wave
them
while shouting "America, love it or leave it."
Nowhere have I ever said that congress has not the plenary
authority to
tax. They most assuredly do. And nowhere have I ever said that one
should not pay a legitimate and constituionally appropriate tax.
But when
they tax OUTSIDE of the strictures laid down in the Constitution,
they
are BOGUS.
The founders SPECIFICALLY set up the tax structure to make it
exceedingly difficult for congress to tax property by virtue of
ownership.
The apportionment requirement lays the tax open to public scrutiny
and
is virtually always defeated. That is why for the first half of
our
country's history the only known taxes were those of excises,
duties and
imosts on FOREIGNERS AND FOREIGN GOODS AND
****NOT**** ON DOMESTIC GOODS or DOMESTIC
PROPERTY.
Try reading Stanton v Baltic Mining or Flint v Tracy or the
Pollock and
Hylton decisions.
The fruit of a man's labor is NOT constitutionally taxable at the
Federal
level EXCEPT through the modality of APPORTIONMENT.
Concepts, of course, with which you have no clue at all, being the
ignorant rube that you have, here, proven yourself to be.
Oh, by the way, thanks for YOUR part of the $3500. I used most of
that
this year to put up the six foot barbed wire fence around my ten
acres.
Thanks, SOOOOOO much.
-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), May 23, 1999. [/snip]
What a loser. And he has the balls to call other people selfish.
unbe-f$@%ing-lievable.
wait...I take that back. He doesn't have ANY balls...he must get
government sponsored testosterone shots....paid for with YOUR money,
folks.
-- Super Polly (get@grip.onit), June 05, 1999.
Hey Super Polly, have you posted here under any other handle? Be truthful now!! Get a grip.
Now, do you have any comments on the two posts by Paul on this thread or are you just on the attack. Still have not found a single Polly that will respond to the FACTS!!
Ray
-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), June 05, 1999.
The only FACTS you need to respond to, little man, are that Milne is a
two faced whoreson...do you deny he is a lying rat-bastard?
YES or NO?
(If any of you dumbasses would post some facts, I'm sure they would be
refuted. You should try it some time...oh, I forgot. You don't have
any facts. you have to cross post Milne's lunatic ravings then call
them facts...)
-- Super Troll (get@grip.onit), June 05, 1999.
Gee Super Polly/Troll, many thanks for answering my question.
Yes, the era of y2k polly/trolls is rapidly coming to an END !!
Your Pal, Ray
-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), June 05, 1999.
Ray, your refusal to answer Super Polly's question speaks volumes.
Like most yapdogs, when challenged you dodge.
But we'll tell you what. First, find ANY facts in what Milne posts.
Then post one of them, and we'll address it.
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 05, 1999.
I at least, am honest in my intentions
Cherri = Mutha Nachu = Super Troll (get@grip.onit) = Super Polly
(get@grip.onit) = Regular (at@the.forum) = many other agitator names
-- Quiet (Observer@watching.you), June 05, 1999.
Flint commented:
"But we'll tell you what. First, find ANY facts in what Milne posts. Then post one of them, and we'll address it. "
Flint, I have asked any of you Polly Trolls to disprove any of the FACTS in the two posts by Milne on this thread. To date, nada one. You folks ARE truly squirming. Here is your GOLDEN opportunity and what do you do, squirm.
Your Pal, Ray
-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), June 05, 1999.
Ray, I've addressed Milne's "facts." When are you going to address
mine?
Your friend...
Bob
-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), June 05, 1999.
Bob-o Friend, I am talking about the two Milne posts on this thread. Please show me where you have responded to these.
Your Pal, Ray
-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), June 05, 1999.
Ray,
My reply is in this article. You will have to read it for yourself.
I can't read it for you...
Your friend,
Bob
-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), June 05, 1999.
Bob:
I believe Ray is saying that he can't find any facts either, but he's
painted himself into a corner and can't admit it. You can only laugh.
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 05, 1999.
POLLYS never give up. Their tenacity means some will be around in
2000 unfortunately.
-- Tea Boy (pollys@spam.me), June 05, 1999.
Tea Boy, ROTFLMAO ............ your right they will be knocking on their neighbors door DEMANDING that they share their few meager rations.
Ray
-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), June 05, 1999.
Ray,
Should I take your post immediately above as your substantive
discussion of the "facts"?
-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), June 05, 1999.
Flint, Bob Brock, Super polly:
You guys are skirting around with micro-issues, attempting to make
mountains out of a mole hill. From the side-lines, I see this
relentless gang-bang tactic, just that. Inflating yourselves against
Ray, a programmer with 35 years of experience (same as Yourdon) and
making him out to be a follower or tag-along. Your hunting the wrong
person. I think the viewers can see through this attempt as I do.
-- Feller (feller@wanna.help), June 05, 1999.
Just so the 'viewers' can listen more carefully to the voice of
experience here, as a public service:
Ray:I have read many of Paul's posts and have found that they are on
target. His so called detractors have virtually failed to provide any
reasonable response.
[Note that this is a flat lie, refuted ad nauseum. Reasonable
responses to Milne's rants would fill an encyclopedia]
Ray:Flint, put your money where your mouth is. You cross post them.
Were all waiting!!
[Ray seems to think that if this encyclopedia isn't copied to this
forum, it doesn't count]
Ray: Flint, you really are losing it. Take a break, go to the movies,
pack a few more 5 gallon buckets, talk to a friend. Let me know how
you are feeling tomorrow.
[personal attack. No substance]
Ray: Hey Bob, why don't you just jump in an show us why these two
posts by Paul are full of hot air. You guys slay me. Here we have two
posts from someone who you attack continuously and NOT ONE of you
trolls rebuke a word of it.
[Another demand that we do Ray's homework for him. Not again that Ray
lies about the posts, which were from 'a', not Milne. And again Ray
makes the fraudulent claim that those posts weren't addressed. And
after even MORE refutation, we get this:]
Ray: Hey Bob-o, you managed to spam us but could you please just
address the two Milne posts earlier in the thread. PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
[personal insult, and another demand for what was JUST provided. Note
that Brock was forced to advise Ray that nobody else can do Ray's
reading for him]
Ray: Now, do you have any comments on the two posts by Paul on this
thread or are you just on the attack. Still have not found a single
Polly that will respond to the FACTS!!
[And yet again. Apparently if Ray doesn't like refutation, he can't
even SEE it. Maybe Feller can't either?]
Ray: Yes, the era of y2k polly/trolls is rapidly coming to an END !!
[No evidence for this at all. Ray still hasn't addressed the topic!]
Ray: Flint, I have asked any of you Polly Trolls to disprove any of
the FACTS in the two posts by Milne on this thread. To date, nada
one. You folks ARE truly squirming. Here is your GOLDEN opportunity
and what do you do, squirm.
[Ray *still* can't read. So he just falls back on the usual insults.]
Ray: Bob-o Friend, I am talking about the two Milne posts on this
thread. Please show me where you have responded to these.
[More insults. NOTE that Ray says he's talking about the 'Milne
posts'. Anyone seen him do it yet?
Ray: Tea Boy, ROTFLMAO ............ your right they will be knocking
on their neighbors door DEMANDING that they share their few meager
rations.
[Now a little cheerleading, consisting of a known false assertion.]
[Now I ask: does Ray sound like a programmer of 35 years' standing?
Is this the voice of long experience? Is *RAY* being picked on here,
or is he on the attack? Has he contributed anything of substance to
the discussion? Has Ray said anything you wouldn't expect from a 12-
year-old? Be honest.]
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 05, 1999.
Here ya go Flint & Brock. A list the postings of Milne's I've cross
posted here. 27 of them. Now, show me how in even a few of these, he
distorts the ACTUAL NEWS ARTICLES. If you cannot, I will conclude
that in the VAST NUMBER OF CASES, he is accurate.
1. Milne (still) not a fan of Senator Bennett
2. Milne no fan of de Jager either
3. Milne not a fan of Senator Bennett
4. Milne offers pollyannas an arithmetic lesson
5. Milne on AT&T's announcement that it may go "Chevron"
6. Milne on Russia, North Korea and Y2K: What Pollyannas don't want
you to know
7. Milne on the Great Geek Migration
8. Milne: 16 Reasons Why Self-Reporting Is Specious
9. Milne: A Pollanna Is Nothing But A Selfish Human Being
10. Milne: Ask Bozo If He Is the 'Best' Clown Ever
11. Milne: Beginning of The Y2K Panic Sell-Off
12. Milne: DoD is floundering
13. Milne: European airports heading for millennium computer crash
14. Milne: Get out of Atlanta
15. Milne: Government Y2K director cites potential for 1-2 weeks
without power
16. Milne: Iraq and Y2K Poisonfire
17. Milne: Ireland "Completely out of Touch" with Y2K (warning:
offensive language)
18. Milne: Japan: She Loves me, She Loves Me Not, She Loves me...
19. Milne: More Ignorant Hoffs
20. Milne: NONE of California's utilities are ready yet
21. Milne: Recession in Latin America worse than IMF expected
22. Milne: Say goodbye to Venezuelan oil
23. Milne: The Collapse Of Indonesia
24. Milne: Why are Wall Street securities firms preparing to SLASH
their assets due to a "minuscule risk"?
25. Milne: Why do pollyannas waste their time discussing y2k?
26. Milne: Yet Another Government prepares for Y2K in a Bunker
27. Milne: US GDP Plunge
To find the post, search c.s.y2k, or search under Uncategorized
Threads on this forum. We "doomers" will be waiting.
-- a (a@a.a), June 05, 1999.
Flint, after all of that Yada ....... Yada ........ Yada you Polly Trolls still HAVE NOT addressed either of Paul's posts.
What does my heart good is that even the newbies on the forum can see through your SMOKE SCREEN.
I have NEVER seen anyone who could write more and say less than you. If you got paid by the word you'd be a billionaire.
Your Pal, Ray
-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), June 05, 1999.
"a", here is a link that will take the reader directly to Paul's posts:
Paul Milne's csy2k Posts
Ray
-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), June 05, 1999.
Flint commented:
"[Now I ask: does Ray sound like a programmer of 35 years' standing? Is this the voice of long experience?"
Flint, did I ever say I had 35 years of programming experience?
Your pal, Ray
-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), June 05, 1999.
Flint:
It all starts out of this and then spins out of control for the sake
of the others' side:
Again brock, you are too stupid for words. One does not need to write
the exact words, "Do not prepare" in order to dissuade people from
preparation. To a one, ALL of your posts lead any reader to the
conclusion that the work is being well done and that substantial
preparation is wholly unecessary.
Sample of YOUR posts:
"Fed says Y2K remediation going swimmingly, Just a Speed Bump" "Big
companies getting the job done says Industry shill" "My Bowling Alley
is Compliant" "Village in Himalayas laughs at Millenium Bug"
"Bankers scoff at notion of anyone taking out money"
"We Have spent 1/4 of our budget, but We'll be done on time,
Guaranteed" "Greenspan says 'robbers' will take your money"
"Have Three days of Food, More than that and you are an unpatriotic
hoarding Communist subject to internment"
Sample of MY articles:
"Iran says it is ONE BILLION SHORT And Hasn't Started" "Venezuela
says it is ONE BILLION Short And Hasn't Started" "Russia says it is
THREE BILLION Short And Hasn't Started" "EU Deeply concerned about 50
Unremediated Nuclear reactors" "Italy Hasn't Started" "China has 90%
Pirated software" "Ireland Says small and Medium companies
DEVASTATINGLY Off Track" "SEC Filings say Big companies Have wildly
underspent" "Report Shows NO major Airport In Europe Close To Ready"
Flint: Maybe the fact that Milne has pointed out that you not leaving
the big city has made you defensive. Maybe he's wrong, however, I
think you are taking all the ammunition you can find to defend on some
premise that maybe you are right. Maybe is a tough thing to go full
board on. Whether either of you are right or wrong, I think your
feelings are making a mountain out of a mole hill. I would suggest you
say,"I disagree and am willing to take the risk of staying put" and
leave it at that. It is very difficult even for me to tell my father
to sell his stocks before Autumn. He has a rather large holding and
feel it would be radical. Since it is a large holding I feel it would
be radical to stay. That is just the point of staying put in a ground
zero situation. It is a catch 22 and you both are trying to pull the
2's apart. Someone needs to give it up for everyone's sake here.
Making the other out to be the bad guy out of pride is wasteful for
all involved. That the way I see it. I know where you're coming from
and it ain't easy. Paul see things from the thick of it and is a
pretty bent because the situation (y2K) is wayyyy bent. It's hard I
know for you none the less. Good luck ironing this one out. We need to
mend and step back to see the Magnitude of the issue. You may
disagree, however, add a few apples or take a few away, the Y2k issue
is still a bushel.
-- Feller (feller@wanna.help), June 05, 1999.
Ray:
Feller said you had 35 years experience. I have no idea where he got
that idea. Maybe that's his interpretation of someone who never
thinks for himself, I couldn't say.
'a': No, I'm not going to waste my time burrowing through your cross
posts. Milne's modus operandi is pretty straightforward by now
anyway: Find someone who isn't finished yet (which will be everyone,
since nobody will finish), and claim this is 'proof' of coming
disaster. I'd advise you never to tell your mentor you have a cold or
a bruise, since he'll have you buried already.
-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 05, 1999.
The only FACTS I see on this entire page, is that everyone has an
opinion. I have not seen one opinion changed by all the arguing back
and forth. Why do you guys keep doing this? Those of you posting on
this page have been y2k aware for some time. You have decided where
your comfort zone is. You have decided what you do and do not
believe. So what is all of this about? Each of you is snart enough
to know that you can not make someone else see things your way.
Evidently , we ALL need to get a life. I can't believe I clicked on
this thread, much less responded....Aaaaargh!
-- Dian (bdp@accesunited.com), June 05, 1999.
Let's do it the easy way and just do the one at the top of this
article. I'm going to repeat myself one more time since you guys
can't see the one above for some strange reason.
Paul posted a parody of my posts. Even he later says it was made up
when I called him on it. He then tries to take the list of my posts
that he made up and compare it with his list of accurate posts to
reach a conclusion. While I won't call it a lie, I will say that it
is very illogical.
Need I go further in the post?
Your friend,
Bob
PS. It would really be a lot easier if you guys would just leave me
out of your crossposts. As I said previously, I'd prefer to limit my
posts in this fourm to adding a useful comment to the survivalism
threads on an infrequent basis.
-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), June 05, 1999.
Well, it should have been smart, not snart, but that makes as much
sense as the rest of this thread! ;-)
-- Dian (bdp@accessunited.com), June 05, 1999.
Flint commented:
"Feller said you had 35 years experience. I have no idea where he got that idea. Maybe that's his interpretation of someone who never thinks for himself, I couldn't say."
Flint, you might want to verify your so called FACTS before posting.
Your Pal, Ray
-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), June 05, 1999.
Feller,
Perhaps you could supply DejaNews links to these articles that you
say that I've posted.
Sample of YOUR posts: "Fed says Y2K remediation going swimmingly,
Just a Speed Bump" "Big companies getting the job done says Industry
shill" "My Bowling Alley is Compliant" "Village in Himalayas laughs
at Millenium Bug" "Bankers scoff at notion of anyone taking out
money" "We Have spent 1/4 of our budget, but We'll be done on time,
Guaranteed" "Greenspan says 'robbers' will take your money" "Have
Three days of Food, More than that and you are an unpatriotic
hoarding Communist subject to internment"
Good luck!
Your friend,
Bob
-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), June 05, 1999.
Bob: I was quoting from the top of the origin of this messy thread.
The only problem was, and I realized it later, I forgot the quotation
marks. I had no intention to involve you. I saw Milne a the bottom.
A mistake possibly, yet was attempting to resolve this issue. My
appologies if you feel involved somehow.
Sincerly, Feller
-- Feller (feller@wanna.help), June 06, 1999.
Bob: Go to: Polly's will be cause of fourth quarter panic. See what
Gordon's analogy says at the end or near end. It is right on.
-- Feller (feller@wanna.help), June 06, 1999.
Feller,
I have no desire to be in this discussion. This group has it's own
set of regulars on both sides of the fence (and some in the middle)
to discuss those types of issues. I still have hopes that my
contributions to this forum will be such things as discussing the
advantanges of growing Amaranth or making "hoe-cakes" instead of
buscits when you don't have an oven.
All that I'm asking is that those who choose to crosspost either pick
articles that don't contain sarcastic quotes attributed to me or that
they will "snip" those references so that I don't have to become
involved in these types of discussions in this forum. Otherwise,
this is a scene that will be repeated over and over again.
That is really what I'm hoping will come from this discussion.
Bob
-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), June 06, 1999.
Bob: You have my word That the mistake I made will not happen again.:)
I realize many stoop to some low levels here and to get caught in the
cross-fire reflects that. My eyeballs seem to be losing focus and your
name was overlooked.
I think your the kinda guy we need here at the forum! Ever try growing
elephant amaranth, maybe less yeilding as the other varieties yet
interesting to look at.
sincerly, Feller
-- Feller (feller@wanna.help), June 06, 1999.
Feller,
Actually, I've never grown any. I was reading an aticle in the froum
that was discussing soybeans and viatimin B deficency. I remembered
an "Orgainc Gardening" article from a long time ago where they
recommended Amaranth as a very good source nutritional source. OG
was recommending growing it as an alternative to contiued famine
relieve in Africa. According to them, it's easy to grow, tolerant of
poor soil and drought, and the entire plant is edible during various
stages of growth. I mentioned it in the soybean thread and another
poster started another aricle on it.
I have ordered some seeds of a variety that is mostly good for greens
and I may try to find your variety to try next spring. The variety
that I'm buying matures in about 60 days and I'll keep some seeds so
I don't have to reorder.I can't find any local suppliers, so I'm
having to go the mailorder route.
Normally during the fall, I've been growing cabbage, broccoli,
turnips, spinich, and kale. Spinich and kale will usually overwinter
here, so I've always got something green growing in the garden. This
year I plan on building a small greenhouse that I can use to grow
some of the other fall crops year round without supplying additional
heat. I've found a free set of greenhouse plans at an .edu site and
by using spare lumber/plastic sheeting that I have here at the house,
I think I can build one for about $30.
Don't worry about the mistake. Stuff happens and life is too short
to keep too many lists.
Bob
-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), June 06, 1999.
-- m (ggoo@ggoo.cooo), June 06, 1999.
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