what do you think of the 60 minutes program and the info given during the program.? Are you going to use this info for accuracy during your speeches around the country?

-- Dorrence Killingsworth (HiHoliday@aol.com), May 24, 1999

Answers

Dorrence

Here is the link where all the posts on the 60 minutes show< /a>

Reaction to 60 Minutes?

-- Brian (imager@home.com), May 24, 1999.

With not where. You think I would learn how to write English one of these years :o)

-- Brian (imager@home.com), May 24, 1999.

DK,

Why does anyone need a TeeVee show to validate an objective reality? Will you believe ONLY if a talking head points out the obvious? Y2K problems in DeeCee are minor compared to the global picture.

-- RD. ->H (drherr@erols.com), May 24, 1999.

I agree, R.D., but unfortunately some folks buhleeeeve that it really isn't "major news" unless it's covered on T.V., especially CNN, CBS News, 60 minutes, etc.

There are several people I know that consider 60 Minute's articles to be of substance and consider their sources credible.

As for the people intereviewed, one heard the testimony of Y2k project managers involved with the operations of municipalities...basically, folks who aren't just armchair speculators, but those who are actually in the trenches.

Since I'm a programmer and deal with IT professionals, I would use this as a reference, for most of the IT professionals I've associated with like to hear it from a "techie's" perspective.

-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), May 24, 1999.

R.D. - my experience is similar to Tim's - there are a number of folks I know for whom 60 Minutes is their only source of news other than half an hour in the evening...*we* don't need this sort of validation, but a w-h-o-l-e lot of other folks sure do!

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), May 24, 1999.

Frankly, I found the story about the Oneida Indians, suing to get their stolen land back from New Yorkers, much more intriguing. Someone said, "If we give them back their beads, will they get on the boat and go back home?" Seems like this is croping up more often. We may have to pay for all that property we stole from them in the name of Manifest Destiny, God and might is right.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), May 24, 1999.

Gilda,

Guess what. I'm not paying for anything. I didn't take it. I didn't get it. I'm not paying for it. Period.

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), May 25, 1999.

Gilda,

Governments bankrupted by Y2K won't be able to afford a roll of toilet paper, much less Indian payoffs.

-- DMH (not@this.time), May 25, 1999.

Besides, Gilda, they took it from whoever was there before them... and they took it... The notion that Indians (Native American? I'm a native American) "owned" the land is specious anyway. They lived in a place for awhile, crapped it up and then moved on. Spare us your liberal, blame-shouldering drivel.

-- Vic (Rdrunner@internetwork.net), May 25, 1999.

Dead on, Vic.

The Indians conquered the land from those who had it before them. They then held it by right of conquest. By right of conquest, it was theirs. Europeans conquered it from them. Now their descendants rightly and legally hold it by right of conquest. The winner takes all, and the victors write the history. It's that simple.

-- DMH (not@this.time), May 25, 1999.

And it may be that simple in the next few years, and the arrogant conquistadors may get a chance to feel the sting of wretched destruction of all they have worked for and held dear. What goes around comes around.

History shows that the native American Indians were not dealt with fairly nor humanely nor honorably. The race and attitudes which committed and made possible the crimes will have to pay -- tis the Cosmic Law. Sometimes justice is slow in coming but the karmic wheel grinds exceedingly fine, for every particle of creation.

No escape but repentance and turning back to the Source and living in that Light.

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-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), May 25, 1999.

Ashton & Leska...

I respect your posts--always have--but I absolutely refuse to accept any blame for what happened to the Indians. Yes, it was Manifest Destiny, and, yes, they were the subject of mistreatment. So were the Irish. The roadside of history is littered with the bodies of mistreated people. We as a society have neither the responsibility nor the wherewithal to offer up recompense for every segment of society wronged in some way. We have far more important things to do right now than wring our hands and wail about the mistreatment of people more than a hundred years ago. As R. Wright said, I didn't do anything wrong.

-- Vic (Rdrunner@internetwork.net), May 25, 1999.

What would YOU do if someone came to you and asked to buy all of the ozone from the air. Willing to pay you million dollars a ton. Would you taker the money?

Same thing. To the native americans, the land just WAS. There was nothing like what the round eyes considered ownership of LAND. It was impossible. As far as they were able to conceptualize, they were geting a GREAT deal. Until they got shot for doing as they had done for generations, which was to follow the migrations of the game, onto the land they had "Sold" (a concept they did not have) to the round eyed interlopers.

Don't get me wrong, I am NOT a typical appologist, but I DO have some Mohawk and Abenaki friends. And I CAN see that St. Dennis or his son (s) is(are) no longer strong voices in the Council, with the current situation in the North of New York.

chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), May 25, 1999.

Hi Vic, it's not a matter of any one person accepting blame for mistreatment of any group. It's more a quiet knowledge of history and metaphysical laws, so that when payback time arrives, none of us feel too surprised or unexpectedly "picked on."

The common question "Why Me?" sometimes is answered,
"Because you were swept along with the mass current in a karmic payback cycle."

The personal responsibility each of us has is to learn from history and not perpetuate wrongs in our daily life. Kindness, harming nobody, being honest, praying, keeping in touch with our higher Self so that our conscience is awake and its guidance reliable.

Until we learn life's lessons we are stuck here, and there are *far* better places to be! So, intensely desiring liberation from the grinding wheel, I tend to look to history to learn lessons and thus expedite my permanent escape from this vale of tears. No axes to grind, no recriminations, just a tingling wide-awake awareness, watching as objectively as possible, and praying incessantly for God's Grace and intervention and a SOON one-way ticket outta here.

Can understand anyone's annoyance with imposed shouldering burdens they feel they had no part in instigating, or firm shove-off of guilt trips. At the same time, a calm realization of large unknown karmic debts can help a person take hold of their life with added vigilance and strong determination to forever throw off any latent troubles of simmering karmic seeds.

For mass karmic currents, prayer and community mitigation involvement are helpful. Which brings us back to neighborhood Y2K prep efforts, the focus of today's Hearings, and a subject covered so well in many archived threads.

I honor your feelings, Vic, and often feel the same. And I want out so badly I'm willing to explore the slim slim possibility that I may need to look at certain aspects of history and learn so that I not make or remake those mistakes and create more tangles and tentacles to bind me to earth and that shattering endless wheel.

xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), May 25, 1999.

Gotta add my two cents to the Indian discussion. My grandfather was 1/2 Oglala Sioux, and when it came time for me to apply for college, I found out that I was eligible for a grant for being part Indian. Well, my grandfather said that I was absolutely NOT applying for that grant because the horrible crimes against the Indians could never be rectified. Sort of like burning down someone's mansion and killing their family and then saying, "uh, sorry." Wow, that sounds almost like our criminal justice system. Back to Grandpa: he looked at the Indians who were trying to get "back" their land as total hypocrites. The Indians do not believe in ownership of land, so how could they want to own land? Grandpa saw them as just money-grubbing Americans with some Indian heritage. Enough said.

jeannie

-- jhollander (hollander@ij.net), May 25, 1999.

I think your grandpa was too hard on the Indians who wanted part of their traditional lands back. They have to adapt a little, to survive. If that means some kind of ownership fence for the tribe, so be it. "When in Rome...", etc. The Plains Indians had no horses before the Spanish came in, yet they adopted this concept and were no less Indian for it.

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), May 25, 1999.