60 Minutes just played their Y2K clip. Seemed worse than I thought.

What was your reaction, and prediction for effect on general public?

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), May 23, 1999

Answers

Called my "middle-America" neighbor who's very active in church affairs, knows tons of people. Just said, "Were you concerned after seeing it?" Answer: "Yes." (She answered me on call-waiting, was talking to bereaved friend on other line.) If Eva says she's concerned, then I think a lot of people are now concerned who weren't before. Will talk to her tomorrow, see if she's talked to others in town, find out what they said.

Me? I'm biased! I was already concerned! Must say it was more hard-hitting than I anticipated.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), May 23, 1999.

Had to laugh when they went into traffic control in Montgomery County and the programmer showed the date changing over to 01/01/00. It was still two digits. LOLOTF

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), May 23, 1999.

The best piece of reporting I have seen to date. Tough questions, honest (as they can be) answers, overall "A" for effort. LOVED the chick from DC! Seems she got ripped a new one with the "4 month water supply" suggestion.

Watched it with my hubby...he's buying a shotgun a generator (if he can find one) tomorrow. He's a former TTGI (Trying To Get It). Really put things into perspective for him.

Certainly hope other magazine shows follow suit

R.

-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), May 23, 1999.

The piece was pretty good, but I don't think there will be any noticable reaction from the public. Like the other reports in the popular press that have suggested there may be Y2K problems, I this one will also go largely unnoticed and be all but forgotten in a couple of days.

-- Clyde (clydeblalock@hotmail.com), May 23, 1999.

I missed it.,,,please tell me what and who was on. Thanks.

-- consumer (private@aol.com), May 23, 1999.

I was amazed ! ! ! I thought it was great ! Did you pick up on the Martial Law comment...the Feds won't be there to help out and will expect the state and local govs to pick up the slack. We all know that the state and local level govs are toast. Also the mention of welfare checks not going out in a timely manner. I live on an island and can already hear the stampeed from across the river to Walmart ! Expect that the banks will be very busy tomorrow ! Glad you are a GI ?! God bless everyone. Dear DGI's...please GI ! We're toast.

-- (allsweet@rocketmail.com), May 23, 1999.

60 DAYS to remediate a Dec 18 payroll problem????? In the "Best" remediated county? How many sheeple will get it?

I got a kick out of one of the last comments/questions posed to Mary Hanley about holing up in your home, she was asked if she had high-up communications about her remarks and she said she had, but not without a chuckle. Read between the lines. Will the sheeple be able to read between them thar lines too?

Overall, I think it's the best presented piece I've seen.

Christa

-- christa (christamike@hotmail.com), May 23, 1999.

I thought it was pretty weak. The only thing I can see that might 'scare' people was the estimate that 66% of local govts. will have at least one failure of a critical system. Those failures may be indeed be 'local', but if they're happening in two-thirds of the country, they sure ain't gonna be 'isolated'....

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), May 23, 1999.

I don't think anyone will change their mind. Hey, there are hundreds of books out there telling people how bad it will be, there have been a host of mag articles, radio shows, etc. I think the show basically showed that DC has some problems.

I know, by simply offering a comment here, I will get flamed, but the real reason I thought I would jump in was because of BB's comment.

BB...

Just because it still showed 00 for the Year 2000 doesn't mean it is NOT Y2K compliant. You need to study all of this a little more. Our software for CCMag is Y2K compliant, and whenever it prints out your expiration date on the label for next year, it uses 00 for 2000 and 01 for 2001. Y2K does not mean that computer printouts can not continue to use 00 for 2000. However, the computer programming does have to be fixed so that the computer really KNOWS it is 2000.

Hope that helps.

Back to the show. For a Polly viewpoint, hey they didn't have too many experts giving out bad news. I think they also made a case that the Y2K Manager for DC was biased towards being a doomer. Lots of "Ifs" and "Possibles". Also, come on, I have talked with enough city managers and water works people around the country to know that, while the water is regulated by computer controlled valves, it is easy (and done very often) to just send someone out to turn the valve themselves.

For the "doomer" side, hey, if I lived in DC, I would be concerned. Especially if I was working for the city, or was receiving benefits of any kind.

-- Steve Hewitt (steve@ccmag.com), May 23, 1999.

way cool. Listened to it on the radio. thought it was probably the first mainstream media piece I'd heard of that wasn't just parading a bunch of GI's with their years supply of TP and snickering at them.

Having lived in both Montgomery Co, MD and DC in the past I thought it was most interesting. I just can't imagine DC going manual- they barely make it day to day from what i recall of living there...

Anyway- I think we're gonna see a lot more GI's- prepare for no flashlights or batteries in the stores by Tues!

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), May 23, 1999.

They had better finish early...how would you like to be one of those D.C. programmers? When will the last one leave? 12/31/99?

-- curtis schalek (schale1@ibm.net), May 23, 1999.

I think the greatest impact might be on those municipal officials who thought they could wing it with fix-on-failure. Some pretty emotional trump cards were played, like the 60 days it took to straighten out D.C.'s payroll system, and Bennett saying there could be civil unrest if welfare checks don't go out, and by the way, don't look to the federal government because we not only don't have a national contingency plan, we don't have the capability to implement one (including martial law)! Montgomery County in Virginia, the readiest community in the country, have already had failures in systems it believed were compliant (building permit system crashed 1/1/99 - JoAnn Effect). DC Y2K coordinator is a strong believer in personal preparation, but got in trouble for recommending 1 month of water (but only $100 cash). She says there must be planning for power failures because they are not impossible, and mentioned a "national average" (??) of 1 to 2 weeks. Bennett was gloomy enough, that I am hopeful this Tuesday's hearings are constructive.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), May 23, 1999.

Unusually well-balanced piece for 60 Minutes. Admittedly it only showed a very small slice of the whole situation, what it did show was more accurate and less contrived than what I've seen in other news segments on Y2K. I think what was most telling was what it didn't show, e.g. hysterical millenial religious groups, total pollys, or folks in bunkers (not that there's anything wrong with having a bunker, mind you - just that it's too much for most peopleto handle).

I don't think that there'll be a run on anything from viewers rushing out to stock up, unless they had the insight to read between the lines of what ws being said. It's been said here before, and I believe it's true, that most will wait until Christmas or later to begin their preps.

-- klm (klm@nwhre.not), May 23, 1999.

To Stephen Poole,

I was very surprised to hear that it took 2 months to fix the payroll problem in the computer. I wish Stephen would give us some good reason why this "normal everyday" type of problem took soooo long to fix.

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), May 23, 1999.

Nothing there that we haven't heard before from other sources. Will mainstream America pick up on it? Is mainstream America supposed to pick up on it?

If not, get ready for the mother of all counter-spins. Are we dizzy yet?

-- Nathan (nospam@all.com), May 23, 1999.

Also, come on, I have talked with enough city managers and water works people around the country....

How many is enough?

-- Lane Core Jr. (elcore@sgi.net), May 23, 1999.

I was pleasantly surprised to see at least some concerns giving validity to the G.I. theme, however, embeddeds regarding maritime, trains, Refineries, natural gas pipelines...etc.. the plausibility of failures and the cause and effect senario's affecting energy, food and electricity was not really mentioned as possible concerns. I find, as usual, irresponsible coverage..ie: "let's see if we (I.T. experts/Govt.) can beat the public to the punch line before we start a panic" theme being played out once again. Screw chicken little and save the stock market. It is a catch 22 and I'm very well aware of the implications of real responsible media coverage. A fine line it tis.

-- Feller (feller@wanna.help), May 23, 1999.

OK, here goes again.

Do you guys really think this was a good piece?

Come on, the Y2K DC Manager was all over the board on opinions. Where did she get the estimate that the average power outage is one to two weeks? The FACT is that whenever we have had a REAL power outage due to technical problems, it has always been fixed with 24 hours (check the history of NERC files).

While discussing FOOD DISTRIBUTION, it was "revealed" that we have no national contingency plan to take over this area of our society. Does anyone really think there SHOULD be a national plan to take over food distribution? IF so, we could probably ask the now defunk Russian government for one, because they had one in place for decades. Of course the never really had it perfected (ever seen the bread lines in Russia?)

The story also had all kinds of contradictions. The DC Y2K Manager, Mary Hanley, gave an example of how they could quickly develop a contingency plan for distribution of aid (such as welfare checks) by setting up distribution points in tents if need be, around the city. Yet, then when we get to Bennett, he tries to scare us that we might have civil unrest if welfare recipients don't get their check on time. Beside these two points contradicting themselves within a 20 minute show, one has to ask "who are these people?" We had a county wide problem (Jackson County, Missouri) last year in which, due to a computer failure (NOT Y2K, sorry), people who were supposed to, did not get support checks for a month and a half. No one took to the streets and started civil unrest.

Brooks, you said, "Some pretty emotional trump cards were played, like the 60 days it took to straighten out D.C.'s payroll system." I could be wrong here, but I thought it was clear that this was a simulation. No one really went 60 days without getting paid. I don't think you can compare testing and remediation with an actual Fix-in-Failure situation. We have seen many more (thousands upon thousands actually) of REAL Y2K crashes, and most were fixed within a few hours or days.

Hanley didn't even speculate on some things. She didn't speculate that the power might go off, but said it was not impossible. Well, nothing is impossible! And with all that doom and gloom, the best she recommended was that you have $100 in your pocket. Man, what do they pay that woman?

I think the one area that we can all agree on was at least the show didn't go out and find some Christian loonies to make fun of. I am glad they didn't make fun of preparing, but if you are a GI, you must also be a little disappointed that they didn't suggest much more that the Red Cross, because all of us DGI's know that what the Red Cross is suggesting for Y2K is the SAME THING they always suggest for any unexpected problem (in other words if there WAS NO Y2K they would be suggesting 3 days to a weeks worth of food (which is something I also agree with as the minimal preparation everyone should have at all times in their house)).

I think one for the DGI's would also be the neighboring city that DID have a Y2K crash January 1, 1999 in their building contract computer (I think that was it, wasn't it?). One of the things we point to is that Y2K is happening NOW, and it is being handled. How many in DC was hurt by this failure? How many needed to prepare in advance to counter this disaster?

Ok, in case I have made anyone made by pointing out these few items, and your emotions get the most of you and you start accusing me of things not related, let me one more time explain my position in brief

I believe Y2K is a very serious problem. I believe that it is OK for everyone to prepare, some more than others if it makes you feel good. I believe however, that most of it will be handled by business, as they are doing now. I believe that we are NOW in the middle of the Y2K disaster, but that it will get a little worse as the year wears on, and the year 2000 starts. However, I also believe that FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC it will be a bump in the road, and that personal inconvenience will be small. Now if you think it is going to be much worst, that is OK with me, don't get bent out of shape if I think differently. And, check the entire message out, did I attack anyone? I don't think so.

-- Steve Hewitt (steve@ccmag.com), May 23, 1999.

So when will the Government move out of DC?

-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), May 23, 1999.

Steve,

I was laughing at the fix. Hope that helps.

What I am not laughing about is your your message of peace and safety that is discouraging prayerful preparations. Reminds me of Hananiah.

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), May 23, 1999.

A. 99 As the previous respondant said, it covered NONE of the interconnected problems , PLUS , left out the fact that the U.S. is very dependent on oil, drugs and untold raw materials from the rest of the world. Of course this could not be covered in 20 minutes , but it's absence gives the sheeple an unrealistic picture that most of us have here of the real fallout from such interdependencies. No one mentioned that Steve Croft (Sp.?) said that 200 billion had been spent on the problem ; NOT the 600 billion quoted here , so many times . They should have spent the whole hour on it and done it well . But , who knows what the media mogels " allowed " them to produce or what is on the ' cutting room floor ' . Eagle

-- Hal Walker (e999eagle@freewwweb.com), May 23, 1999.

I can see the washington monument and the capitol building from my balcony. As a consultant working on Y2K for the feds, I can tell you one thing. I will not be here on 12/31/99.

Will you know what the reaction is around here tomorrow.

-- MoVe Immediate (MVI@yepimhere.com), May 23, 1999.

It was considerably grimmer than I expected. If we are still facing such threats, I have to wonder about various other countries that are considerably behind us in Y2K work but that are still quite computer dependent. This does not bode well for the global economy.

-- Don Florence (dflorence@zianet.com), May 23, 1999.

One more hour to wait till its on in CA. ;-(

60 Minutes: Sunday, May 23

Y2K
Despite the billions being spent to deal with the Y2K computer bug, many municipalities can't guarantee their citizens basic services like water and electricity on January 1, 2000. Steve Kroft reports. Frank Devine is the producer.

STEVE KROFT, Co-editor
Much honored for his investigative reporting, he was a foreign correspondent before being named a co-editor of 60 Minutes in 1989.

So, why dont you give CBS some feedback?

http://www.cbs.com/flat/ frameset_feedback3Fp5Fwho3Dnetwork.html

(Hi MoVe... how's it going?)

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), May 23, 1999.

"They should have spent the whole hour on it and done it well"

Hal,

I think you hit the nail on the head. It just was getting interesting and then it was over. I asked my husband if he had not heard much about y2k before watching that segment, would he be concerned enough to search out more information or just change the channel and watch something else. His answer? "Would have changed the channel..."

mb in NC

-- mb (mdbutler@coastalnet.com), May 23, 1999.

Evenin' All! I would like to know if there is an audio or video that anyone knows of that is available -- I'll be searching momentarily. Just got home from church (and of course, missed 60 min and have no VCR). Rats. Sure helps to have the opinions and summaries!

-- Mr. Kennedy (Mr.K@home.tonight), May 23, 1999.

Hey Diane! I don't come around as much anymore,but thought it was worth a visit to see the 60 minute responses. The feds are making pretty good progress from my perspective. Better than I expected.

I'm still concerned about power, water, and food distribution. Nothing yet to convince me otherwise. Small business and local govs don't have a clue imho.

This is one weird place. I spent time in NYC, but this place wins hands down. I was in the area 30 years ago, but its a different place now.

-- MoVe Immediate (MVI@yepimhere.com), May 23, 1999.

Saw this on another thread. After reading Steve Hewitt's responses here, I thought I would copy it here since it seems to identify him pretty well. BTW, Hewitt, why did you suddenly show up using your own name? What troll do you usually post as?

Roger

********

Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one [like Dobson, Falwell, Hewitt, or Poole] deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming I am the Christ, and will deceive many [about Y2K]" (Matt. 24:4-5).

-- White Horse (first@seal.rev), May 22, 1999.

-- Roger (Roger@wilco.con), May 23, 1999.

A very good presentation. Why would anyone (doomer or polly) expect a terribly in depth piece for that 5% (?) of the population that has seriously thought about Y2K? This was for the big audience and VERY worrisome if you were paying attention to the implications of what was said. Thought the DC coordinator was good --- How would yo like to be in charge of ANYTHING in DC?

If people were paying attention, they will (should) be ggreatly motivated to at least look into it --- but wouldn't hold my breath.

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), May 23, 1999.

Hi Steve,

I believe your posts exhibit a gross underestimate of the depths of the problem. Thought I'd offer some thoughts from someone who actually lives here (DC Metro area) - and who is getting OUT OF HERE in plenty of time this summer:

as to the two weeks power outage estimate, I believe if you will stop and thing for a moment you will realize that you are misapprehending the problem. First off, the NERC statistics (24 hour repair time) you quote are for isolated incidents in which the majority of the grid remains intact and operating within normal parameters. This will most certainly NOT be the case at roll over, as word is already on the street that the local power companies (PEPCO and Virginia Power) will be islanding their support to the metro area in order to insure that the federal government remains functional. That being the case, we already know that we are going to have some of the rural electrical cooperatives here in Virginia which will loose power simply because they don't generate their own. These are also the same REC's that have not been able to invest much in their own remediation plans - they just didn't have the bucks. So these same RECs can expect to have y2k related malfunctions even when they do manage to buy some electrical power from somewhere. This is not an isolated instance. You will see this happening over and over across the US as those utilities which have completed the majority of their remediation island from the net in order to protect their local customer base (and thus avoid legal liability). Given that this is the reality we are facing, the NERC statistics are virtually meaningless. There will be multiple simultaneous problems and it will NOT be possible to sort them all out in 24 hours or less. Then of course if we get another ice storm like we had down here last Christmas, or perhaps like the one that hit Canada, we would have additional very real problems on top of all of that...

WRT food distribution, you also missed the point. I realize you're not from around here (DC Metro), but one of the standard polly lines around here is something to the effect that the government will send in emergency supplies if something goes seriously wrong. The point of that part of the 60 minutes story is that NO SUCH GOVERNMENT SUPPLY CAPACITY EXISTS. period. The government will NOT bail people out of problems they cause for themselves by failing to prepare. People MUST be prepared for all contingencies, something much of the couch potato generation is not going to find a very comfortable concept at all.

As far as DC being able to deliver some basic welfare assistance via emergency tent centers, that is entirely unproven and very questionable. Even so, were they able to do so, they would basicly be servicing the District of Columbia only (remember Maryland and Virginia would still have to take care of their own people seperately). DC is only 600 thousand people...that might just be doable, though personally I doubt it. Now please explain to me how the same thing could be done for the 12 MILLION people in Southern California? or how about the 5 MILLION people in New York City? Again, you seem to have severely underestimated the scale of the problem.

Now Steve, please don't think I'm just flaming you - I really would be interested in hearing your solutions to the above problems! Short of significant levels of preparation, how would *you* guarantee that a person would not be seriously affected by the problems noted above?

Arlin Adams

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), May 23, 1999.

Please bear in mind that this thread will likely be attractive to newbies who saw the programme. Please let's not flame or post off-topic for a day or two. Thanks.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), May 23, 1999.

I thought the 60 minutes piece was very good. It approached the subject in a very smart way. To let people know the effect of the problem in local govt.,is to let them know there can be a trickle down effect on them. Could the story have been stronger? Of course. But to be quite honest there is very little time to "Get It". Government needs to stop playing possum. Maybe this is a beginning.

-- Gia (Laureltree7@hotmail.com), May 23, 1999.

In answer to Hewitt's DRIVEL...

My comments in parenthesis.

OK, here goes again. Do you guys really think this was a good piece?

Come on, the Y2K DC Manager was all over the board on opinions. Where did she get the estimate that the average power outage is one to two weeks? The FACT is that whenever we have had a REAL power outage due to technical problems, it has always been fixed with 24 hours (check the history of NERC files).

(LOL LOL LOL Y2K induced problems are not like problems in the past. this will not happen to ONE place but everywhere at once.)

While discussing FOOD DISTRIBUTION, it was "revealed" that we have no national contingency plan to take over this area of our society. Does anyone really think there SHOULD be a national plan to take over food distribution?

(It is not a matter of whether there SHOULD or SHOULD not. The FACT is that if food distribution channels go down, morons like you don't eat.)

IF so, we could probably ask the now defunk Russian government for one, because they had one in place for decades. Of course the never really had it perfected (ever seen the bread lines in Russia?)

The story also had all kinds of contradictions. The DC Y2K Manager, Mary Hanley, gave an example of how they could quickly develop a contingency plan for distribution of aid (such as welfare checks) by setting up distribution points in tents if need be, around the city.

(Laughable in itself.)

Yet, then when we get to Bennett, he tries to scare us that we might have civil unrest if welfare recipients don't get their check on time.

(Morons like you who do not LIKE the conclusions always call them scare tactics.)

Beside these two points contradicting themselves within a 20 minute show, one has to ask "who are these people?" We had a county wide problem (Jackson County, Missouri) last year in which, due to a computer failure (NOT Y2K, sorry), people who were supposed to, did not get support checks for a month and a half. No one took to the streets and started civil unrest.

( Again for the morons like Hewitt, that was ONE highly ISOLATED experience not this same thing happening everywhere at once in the whole world across all industries with the potential for no water electric and sewage all at the same time. What a moron you are Hewitt.)

Brooks, you said, "Some pretty emotional trump cards were played, like the 60 days it took to straighten out D.C.'s payroll system." I could be wrong here, but I thought it was clear that this was a simulation. No one really went 60 days without getting paid. I don't think you can compare testing and remediation with an actual Fix-in- Failure situation. We have seen many more (thousands upon thousands actually) of REAL Y2K crashes, and most were fixed within a few hours or days.

( each one TOTALLY isolated from other simultaneous problems)

Hanley didn't even speculate on some things. She didn't speculate that the power might go off, but said it was not impossible. Well, nothing is impossible!

(except the fact that you will ever 'get it'.)

And with all that doom and gloom, the best she recommended was that you have $100 in your pocket. Man, what do they pay that woman?

(That was Bennett.)

I think the one area that we can all agree on was at least the show didn't go out and find some Christian loonies to make fun of. I am glad they didn't make fun of preparing, but if you are a GI, you must also be a little disappointed that they didn't suggest much more that the Red Cross, because all of us DGI's know that what the Red Cross is suggesting for Y2K is the SAME THING they always suggest for any unexpected problem (in other words if there WAS NO Y2K they would be suggesting 3 days to a weeks worth of food (which is something I also agree with as the minimal preparation everyone should have at all times in their house)).

I think one for the DGI's would also be the neighboring city that DID have a Y2K crash January 1, 1999 in their building contract computer (I think that was it, wasn't it?). One of the things we point to is that Y2K is happening NOW, and it is being handled. How many in DC was hurt by this failure? How many needed to prepare in advance to counter this disaster?

Ok, in case I have made anyone made by pointing out these few items, and your emotions get the most of you and you start accusing me of things not related, let me one more time explain my position in brief

I believe Y2K is a very serious problem.

( No you do not)

I believe that it is OK for everyone to prepare, some more than others if it makes you feel good. I believe however, that most of it will be handled by business, as they are doing now.

( This is proof that you are an idiot. By every calcuable survey, business is way way way behind.)

I believe that we are NOW in the middle of the Y2K disaster, but that it will get a little worse as the year wears on, and the year 2000 starts. However, I also believe that FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC it will be a bump in the road, and that personal inconvenience will be small.

(You will be dead soon. Moron.)

Now if you think it is going to be much worst, that is OK with me, don't get bent out of shape if I think differently. And, check the entire message out, did I attack anyone? I don't think so.

-- Steve Hewitt (steve@ccmag.com), May 23, 1999.

(I am not 'bent' out of shape at you. Do as yopu please. Most morons like you will. You dissuade people from making serious preparations. You watch the first big program that is completely devoid of any happy face comments and STILL conclude bump in the raod. You deserve what is going to happen to you. Your dependents and family do not.)

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), May 23, 1999.

I have to admit the 60 minutes piece was quite good. As was pointed out months ago, the mainstream media would slowly subject people to increasing doses of preparation.

Watching this tonight was significant for me as I was about to submit the following and ask the seasoned programmers, What are the latest thoughts and predictions?

Many months ago Gary North cautioned (predicted?) the imminent decline (correction, dip, etc.) of the stock market. Well, obviously nothing yet. He also told everyone to stock up on Ohio Blue Tip strike anywhere matches, that they would soon be hard to find. Recently on his newsletter, he stated that oil lamp wicks, mantles, etc. were very scarce. Now, I don't claim to be smarter nor do I dispute his recommendation. I was, however, in Lehman's yesterday and there were plenty of the above. In fact, I was surprised to see the shelves full and the store certainly was not crowded. Much different than last November when we were last there. I found myself recalling the story of the boy who cried wolf!

-- lparks (lparks@eurekanet.com), May 23, 1999.

Arlin,

First of all, thanks for a very sane and well-prepared response to my post. No flames, no problem. Disagreement is not flaming. WhiteHorse, alias Roger, now that's a flame.

Concerning electricity, we are going to have to disagree. I do not think even REC's are going to have problems, nor the grid in general. January 1 is far from a peak time, so any Y2K problems the utilities might have will be fixed quickly by the few that might have them. Distribution around the grid will not be delayed. However, I understand that others, like yourself, have come to different conclusions based on your study. So be it.

If someone has been going around saying that the feds will be able to step in an get food to everyone if in some way Y2K could stop food from being distributed, then I guess we both agree. That ideal is stupid. I would much rather depend on those that produce food to get it to market since if they don't they don't get paid. Much better system than government distribution of food (as I pointed out before, see Russian history for a poor example). I don't think the government could pull it off without any problems such as Y2K going on

Third point. I do not expect government computers everywhere to fail as a result of Y2K. I remember December 1998, three different mag articles came out stating that a number of states would not be ready for Y2K and would fail to be able to distribute unemployment checks starting January 1999. All three had a different number of states that were supposed to be affected, but the point is, there has never been a follow up of a single state that failed Jan 1999 due to Y2K.

My point was that the show had a bit of a conflict. Here you had the DC 2000 manager saying that important stuff like welfare would be handled using contingency plans, and then Bennett saying he thought there could be civil unrest as a result of people not getting welfare checks. Just a little critique of the show, not any great though or point.

Again, thanks for the counter point. Over all, I don't think the show will have any great change on the DGI's or the GI's.

A new question! Exactly who are the "sheeple" supposed to be, us DGI's Pollys or you GI's Doomers. I guess I missed this one.

-- Steve Hewitt (steve@ccmag.com), May 23, 1999.

Right on, Milne. Hewitt's problem is that he will kill a lot of people with his "Y2K is no problem" crap. I hope he's wearing his asbestos underwear come judgment day.

-- Roger (roger@wilco.con), May 23, 1999.

The "sheeple" are those not paying attention to this "crisis" at all. Neither GI nor DGI or even DWGI. They are truly clueless and given more than a whiff of smoke, it may take a few flames (no pun intended) to get their attention. When that happens look out for the stampede. I think it would take a full blown housefire to accomplish this.

mb in NC

-- mb (mdbutler@coastalnet.com), May 23, 1999.

Paul,

Great response. Call me a moron and an idiot. Great dialog, boy you are too good. I give up. That kind of reasoning has convinced me. You win, wow, you take my breath away. Whew... I don't know why I never saw your side before. Each of your responses was a literary work. Can I publish it? Please!

-- Steve Hewitt (steve@ccmag.com), May 23, 1999.

Check the ratings. This is one of the highest rated shows on television. Whether you thought it was hard enough hitting or not it might wake a few people up. Most people get their news from tv. Any show dealing with the problem is a welcome additi

-- bruce johnson (ianchloe@columbus.rr.com), May 23, 1999.

I thought the 60 minutes piece was the best show concerning Y2k on the mind control box yet. It will be interesting to see if this show is the breeding ground for a new influx of Y2K reporting that actually presents the problems without spin. High points: Addressing the water issue; martial law actually mentioned; Microstinks software non compliant w/ their building permits; mentioning civil unrest; and not branding those who prepare as religious cultist nuts. Low points: manual workarounds for welfare(imagine the fraud here and the manpower required); no mention of the banking systems. I wonder if anyone will actually look into cash reserve ratios at banks. Watch and see folks if this seems to trigger an increase.

-- trafficjam (judgementday@ahead.soon), May 23, 1999.

I was disappointed - but not surprised. It just dealt with local gubbmint - spending 200 million on remediation and failing. No mention at all of the systemic nature of the problem, that it will impact ALL facets of everyday life. No mention of banking. No mention of oil. Rail. Air traffic. Just covered about 5% of the problem. If I was JQP it wouldn't worry me at all - hey "they'll fix it"...happy happy, smiley smiley, up beat attitudes - "we will have workarounds"...

Another missed opportunity.

Hewitt and poole - you'reso called Christian web sites will cost lives. You should both be ashamed of yourselves. You would both do well to just shut the f%%k up than continue with your happy happy scenarios. Milne is right on the button with the pair of you and morons is too good a word for you. Yep - murderers, if things go bad. If they are not so bad you've saved some people from thinking about taking responsibility for themselves. But hey, you two know better. Let's not beat about the bush here. Murderers.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 23, 1999.

Hello MoveImmediate: Glad to see that you still check in once in awhile. I have missed your posts. Hope all is going well with you and yours.

-- jeanne (jeanne@hurry.now), May 23, 1999.

Check the ratings. 60 Min is consistently tops. Hopefully it opened some eyes. Sure it could have been longer/more thorough but the fact of the matter is that most people get their news from television. Any show that adds to general info will be for the bett

-- bruce johnson (ianchloe@columbus.rr.com), May 23, 1999.

This piece will not change any minds. Not when the experts are saying the problems will be localized. Even if some 'get it' and get the feeling not all is well, they will get up tomorrow and by Wednesday they will be making their summer plans. It took a constant, daily reading to get me to turn my train around. One show won't do it.

When they do an hour on where the DOD really is, and where Russia and China really are on y2k, then they'll have something.

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), May 23, 1999.

Andy

Thanks for the great posts. You are right concerning Christian sites who blast Y2K. As a conservative Christian GI, I've been slammed by several in our church. At a recent revival meeting, I questioned several evangelists who travel about the country. Most churches were not even addressing the storm that lies ahead according to them. The evangelists were sincere but completely ignorant of how vast this problem is. Here's 2 possible reasons why some Christians adamant DGI's : first, pastors fear the congregation and loss of tithe. Second-statements like "I'ts a lack of faith if you prepare. Look at Elijah." Folks are comfortable with their padded pews, social status, bank accounts, and 401k's. They don't want to and cannot fathom life without these things as it is uncomfortable. The modern "Christian" is soft, complacent, gutless, and conformed to the world instead of Jesus Christ.

-- trafficjam (judgementday@ahead.soon), May 23, 1999.

I loved it, especially the opening remarks. It put down the spin about Y2k being hype to sell software and directed emotion right toward fear by saying this problem is real. Then, it showed proof that the problem is real and even a Y2k manager and a U.S. Senator say PREPARE!

I did especially like the way the manager got uncomfortable about manual workaround contingencies and the bit about her quote.

The last time 60 Minutes ran a piece this forum jumped in activity. I suspect we'll see another jump with this one.

Mike ==============================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), May 23, 1999.

Steve,

all I can say is that you are operating on a vastly different set of data than I am to be able to come to your conclusions.

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), May 23, 1999.

Mixed bag. I wish they would've at least mentioned banks, oil, and transportation. At least they had some footage of, and commentary on, the systems used in water treatment. I think her talk of possible water rationing will at least get some people off the fence. And mentioning that they expect 66 percent of localities to have at least one critical error, coupled with the 60-day fix required for the December 18th problem in D.C., might prompt some people to start preparing. Every little bit helps, but I wish they could've spent the entire hour and focused on some of the bigger-picture issues.

-- Don (whytocay@hotmail.com), May 23, 1999.

I think the "sheeple" are people who follow the masses that enjoy the luxuries of the present day and do not want to loose those luxuries or believe any of those luxuries will be lost. In the Sheeples minds, there has been no historical presedent to lead one to believe otherwise. G.I.'s invest much time to investigate congress reports, economists and programmers views as well as the hands on experiences in their attempts to remediate the Y2K bugs. Sheeple do not have much in the way of curiosity. Sheeple depend on Status Quo as well as the media. We all know the leaders of this country are concerned more about how sheeple react, moreso than G.I.'s who are advanced in preparations. Sheeple are the panic element. G.I.'s have nothing to panic about due to prudent preparations, except (of course) for the masses of self indulgent, uninformed and panicky sheeple. How better can one define Sheeple. In Chinese Astrology, the year of the sheep is a passive and self indulgent personality, generally oblivious to the practical functions around them. They usually move to greener pastures when the food runs out. Generally high maintainence if not educated.

-- Feller (feller@wanna.help), May 23, 1999.

RE: Show, got to agree with Clyde Blaylock , Hal Walker, pretty lame stuff considering the sleep state people are in already, this one I dont think would stir'em. But, I am a GILA (Got It Long Ago). AMEN to trafficjam on second paragraph!!!! This story reminds me of the saying "The longer I live the more I realize how stupid people really are!" NO, I wont be running out to the store first thing Monday morning, there wont be any lines!!

-- bob (rgt350@aol.com), May 23, 1999.

Very nice report. The apple blossoms in D.C. are very photogenic in May. sivjesugnvtsjtaskdjfneasdgfvoasodofgntnoasteifnwgesgw.

-- Activateforscen10 (veryinteresting@E-center.Gov), May 23, 1999.

Hodwy MVI! How's it going? Yes, please keep us posted on the rumblings in the office tomorrow. Could be more interesting than 60 min! <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), May 23, 1999.

Is it possible this show was a prelude to several others with different emphases? If we get lucky, maybe even with gradually increasing pressure. I'm begining to think they chose the local example because that's how most people think--locally. If viewers will only ask themselves: "I wonder how my town is doing on Y2K," and then try to find out, then this program will have succeeded where government has failed.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), May 23, 1999.

Old git,

Let's hope you're right, a toe in the water, but time has all but run out, the next six months will be gone in a blink of an eye.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 23, 1999.

well FWIW it seems I just found out that at least one of my DWGI relatives suddenly GI directly due to the 60 minutes program...the old "hey! that could affect ME!!!" reaction.

ya gotta love it when that happens!

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), May 23, 1999.

I think we all know what the term "sheeple" means. I find it very offensive. It may well be too bad for them that they didn't get it, but really, why should anyone seriously preparing for a new world use a term like this? Paul, you've gone overboard again as well. I agree with your position, but whats the point? Do you want to titilate us with sarcasm? Further your reputation? After the lights go out it won't make any difference how famous you were on the web.

-- Sand Mueller (smueller@azalea.net), May 23, 1999.

I wonder if President Clinton and his wife watched..I hear it is their favorite show...ever since it got him off the hook for banging Ms. Flowers.

-- Proud2baPolly (proud2b@polly.net), May 24, 1999.

i think they blew it by not leading off with this topic or devoting the whole or at least 2/3 of the show to it...oneida nation and indian "take overs" seem to have more concern, at least with the people in new york state than y2k must have for the whole country, at least in 60 minutes producer don hewitts mind....it was far too narrow in doing a dc and montgomery county comparison---but so glad it did not detract into the usual montel williams ambush where they turn GI's into backwoods racists.

Think Globally if you like: and let 60 minutes take care of you Act Locally to survive: gold,gun,cash,generator,food, water

Overall I'd give it 3 out of 4 stars for at least making the point.

-- billyboy (billyboy@billyboy.com), May 24, 1999.

Paul and Andy,

Agreed.

I've heard Hewitt on radio and TV enough now to be throughly enraged by his sheer stupidity and lack of caring for Christians and countrymen in general. By the way, I've heard that the 7 day Red Cross prep recommendations are to sustain you UNTIL the "authorities" come for you. They're gonna save everyone ya'know.

Back to Dimwitt. INCURABLY IGNORANT.....

Very sad and perplexed that someone actually made him a spokesman for an issue so important.

a former Programmer/Analyst...

-- Paul Christy (paulchri@msn.com), May 24, 1999.

My daughter was at my house -- we've been on a two week crusade to clean out the garage -- and she called her DWGI husband to ask him to tape it and watch it; he wasn't there so she left a message. Later she called to see if he had taped it after it was over. He had. She asked did he watch it; he said he saw part of it -- 'something about how DC is going to have Y2K trouble.' Anyone who doesn't want to get it won't. They will always deflect to 'it's their problem -- over there, another country, another state, another city -- not me.'

-- Shelia (Shelia@active-stream.com), May 24, 1999.

Case in point about poole the egocentric costing Christian lives after rollover....

"Andy said, "He has point blank refused to modify his site to several forum participants - yes or no?"

The day that I feel the urge to modify it to conform to your fevered vision of the future, I will jump off of Shades Mountain and get it over with.

(Hint: yes, you may construe that to be a NO. To you, at least. Anyone else who wants to point out FACTUAL errors in anything I've said there, I'll be glad to listen.)

-- Stephen M. Poole, CET (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), May 24, 1999."

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 24, 1999.

First reaction. My parents saw it...and are more convinced that there is a problem. Of course, they lived through the great depression, so know what can happen...and already keep several months storage.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), May 24, 1999.

milne and andy,

A fellow named Dante Alighieri wrote a piece called "The Inferno" some 700 years ago. As I recall, one of the levels of Hell he described was full of people who were wading about in a moat of fecal matter.

By golly, he must have been foreseeing you guys. Who knew.

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), May 24, 1999.

were we wading in chicken droppings??? that's all you seem to do on this forum numbnutz

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 24, 1999.

reading Dante at the reform school are we??

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 24, 1999.

Chicken

The Inferno was a movie, Dante wrote the Divine Comedy. Have you read the book?

-- Brian (imager@home.com), May 24, 1999.

Arlin, Thanks for sharing. Have to believe that seeds were sown and watered before 60M. (For example, you and your words, and prayer, must have laid some groundwork.)

Denial is the first roadblock, the second is procrastination. Remember what it took for me to get out of that stage....I know some GIs that have hardly prepared. B

Old Git, Could 60M actually have a strategy?

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), May 24, 1999.

AAAAAHHHHHHHH! I missed it! Anyone know if it will be aired again? I tried to find it on their site, http://db.cbs.com/prd1/now/template.display?p_who=network&p_section=34 15, but no click through links. Just a paragraph explaining what they will say. I would settle for a transcript but a RealAudio version would be really nice.

From the comments already posted, I gather that they were short on the subject due to time constraints, and so shallow in coverage.

I really wish I could have seen it! AAAAAAAHHHHHHH!

-- J (jart5@bellsouth.net), May 24, 1999.

Thanks to FM, the transcript will soon be available in another thread

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000rbd

Hooray for FM!

-- J (jart5@bellsouth.net), May 24, 1999.

The show was a year too late and 40 minutes too short. While it was better than I expected, most people will not change their thoughts about Y2K, assuming they have any thoughts at all. The segment that followed the Y2K piece was called "Dress for Success". I wonder how many viewers will remember to dress for success as they stand in line for whatever is being rationed.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@com.net), May 24, 1999.

I don't understand the complaints about shallow coverage, etc. 60M chose to focus specifically on the lack and the difficulty of municipal preparation, and I think they did a very commendable and responsible job. No primetime program has broken ranks yet to do a full feature story on Y2K. There is still time to do a series of programs (I hope, I hope), and I think the 60M piece was a fine first step on a very important topic (one of many, of course).

I still believe the targeted audience was municipal managers across the country who will have a great deal more difficulty now explaining to their constituents next year why they chose to do nothing. Any trickle down to individual preparation is a bonus.

I consider personal and neighborhood preparation to be the most important. However, in my area, denial by the munipality to either do or encourage contingency planning has created a social stigma that stifles any interest in a community approach. Otherwise, it's just your crazy neighbor GI George who is running against the tide of the entire town and noone dares to admit to paying attention.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), May 24, 1999.

It was a good start, and some long-awaited confirmation for GIs that they are the prudent ones.

However, one show won't do it, and time is running out. The folks who wait until after Christmas to start preparing may not live. That's not being overdramatic.

-- Doug (douglasjohnson@prodigy.net), May 24, 1999.

Hi All:

This is the first time I have posted on your site but I have been preparing for Y2K for the last two years (so am I a "newbie" or not?)

I have been eavesdropping on your commentaries for the last month and I'm not sure if your bantering back and forth with each other is just good natured ribbing or immature squabbling. I have been hesitant to respond to some of the issues because of this.

However, I watched "60 Minutes" last night and wanted to share some thoughts with you all. Personally I felt they did a good job in relating the facts without overloading the viewers. It was sufficient enough to bring my sister (a fence-sitter) to the point of action. I do believe that the show will make a difference to those people who up til now have been aware but procrastinating. After a few suggestions, she went out and started her preparations.

I think you should make an effort to understand that what you are telling people is that globally we have a potentially terminal disease. And if you've read "On Death and Dying" (Elizabeth Kuble- Ross), you are aware of the stages of death. Denial is the first stage. Many of these "Sheeple" as you so derogatorially call them are simply scared to death that their way of life is endangered! They are more to be pitied than censored!

As for the "60 Minutes" segment being weak, remember alot of these "people" are in the seedling stage (granted some are dormant and will choose to remain so). However, as with a seedling, you do not water it by pouring a bucket of water on it; you do it gradually and tenderly i.e. if you want the seed to grow. I doubt that any of us who understand the breadth, depth, and scope of the Y2K problem came to this understanding by some instantaneous divine revelation. At least I didn't.

When I have spoken to "people" re Y2K, I have found it detrimental to my cause (convincing them) if I belittle them or behave in a demeaning manner towards them. "People" just naturally don't respond well to that type of treatment. So I keep my words gentle and make my points reasonably.

Thanks for hearing me out

Morrighan

-- Morrighan Spicer (matotipi@worldpath.net), May 24, 1999.

sheeple need not be a term of derision,it just means masses with ironic undertones refering to the gregarious nature of group minded people.Do not the masses cry for a shepard to lead them?does the shepard scorn the sheep?Read Noam Chomsky and you'll learn how the middle class(the masses)MUST be lulled into complacency to keep them from revolting against the tiny (less than 2%)minority holding over 95% of ALL the money.post ww2,it took less than 60% of one family members income to make ends meet,now it takes two.But the middle class won't care as long as they have two cars,a boat,a garage and a lower class to fear and hate.That doesn't make me scorn them,but it does make me want to sell their children useless expensive garbage.not likeing the term "sheeple" does not mean it doesn't apply.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), May 24, 1999.

"they'll pay to know what they really think"-J.R."BOB"Dobbs

-- ! (!@!.!), May 24, 1999.

"I don't practice what I preach,because I'm not the kind of man I'm preaching to"-J.R."BOB"Dobbs

-- ! (!@!.!), May 24, 1999.

I must thank Mr. Hewitt.

My husband has always shared my opinion that it was commen sense to be prepared for any emergancy, illness or unemployment, and y2k included. However, he hasn't felt the same "urgency" as I have to step up preparation beyond our ususal plan to live as self reliently as possible. He has supported me, I must say, 100% with preparations letting me direct the what, when, how and why his hard earned money was spent.

Last night we watched 60 Minutes together, and this validated the news that I had been telling him all along, but still no fireworks. He has never searched out any information himself, and honestly keeps to busy with work and home responsibilities to do much extra of anything.

Later in the evening, I checked the forum here to review the feedback on the show and came across Mr. Hewitt's first post. I ask him if he was interested in hearing a varying opinion on the show (which he had just himself watched). Up to this point I had only ever read to him bits and pieces of informative or humorous posts from the forum.

Well, my fellow is as laid back as they come, but one could tell something really sunk in, and sunk in hard. He was totally puzzled about how someone (Mr. Hewitt) could take facts presented and discount them, rearrange them, and preceed to discuss them in a manner that was obviously not the message the speaker intended to convey. (Well Honey, welcome to the mindset of the "bump in the road" crowd).

He is a man of few words (for which I take up the slack for both of us). When I explained Mr. Hewitt's words where trusted by so many, his statement was very simple, "That's a crime."

I have always felt, personally, that the Polly attitude on this forum did more good than bad for people who are attempting to get a real balanced picture of the whole y2k problem. Those seeking a "quick word" on which to base their opinion on do so with all aspects of their life anyways, and they will not "Get It" under any circumstances, because it would take to much time and effort.

The objectivity of this forum is enhanced by their presence here. GI's on this forum present facts and news which the average person can neither discount nor ignore. Success stories of various companies and government enitites cannot wipe out the truth that so much is unknown yet about the whole big picture. The global picture.

Time is short folks, and this is so important. Learn, sort it all out, plan and then apply yourself to your preparations.

If you are late in getting started or money is short, stay with the basics: food and cooking, water, medicines, sanatation, personal saftey and heating (think winter 2000). Don't forget to give some thought to a back up plan also.

Keep preparing...

-- Lilly (homesteader145@yahoo.com), May 24, 1999.

Steve Kroft should go jerk himself off. You people are all assholes.

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), May 24, 1999.

Denver already said in December that it would not be able to finish all Y2K repairs in time...and Denver started in 1996! It's time now to dig out the article about Denver again:

http://www.denverpost.com/news/news1213a.htm

City to tackle Y2K when time comes

By Susan Greene

Denver Post Staff Writer

Dec. 13 - Let it break, then fix it.

That's part of Denver's strategy as the city prepares itself over the coming year for the so-called "Y2K'' computer problem.

Officials say there's no way Denver can reprogram every computer chip in every piece of city equipment before midnight on Dec. 31, 1999. So they're concentrating on repairing things deemed critical to public safety - and rolling the dice on the rest.

Items expected to be inoculated against problems arising come the year 2000, or Y2K, are traffic lights, police cars and security systems at Denver jails.

Those that could be left alone include sprinklers, air conditioners and elevators in city buildings, intercoms and hot water systems, modems, fax machines, copiers and maybe even phones. It's possible, city officials say, that lighting in parks could be crippled. Sewer lines may go unmonitored. Recycling trucks and street sweepers may not be able to make their neighborhood rounds.

"We'll oftentimes just wait until the clock rolls over to see if things work or don't work,'' said Dave Bufalo, Denver's Y2K director. "I don't think the world's going to come to an end. But I can't say exactly what will happen, either.''

The problem, in short, centers on computers, software and chips expected to go awry because they recognize dates only in two-digit formats. When computers' internal clocks change to Jan. 1, 2000, many will "believe'' it's actually 1900. Unless they're reprogrammed, they could shut down or go haywire.

Crews and consultants began working on software for the city's 6,000 computers in 1996. In February, they shifted much of their focus to "embedded chips'' - tiny devices that regulate the functions of the product they're in, making sure that cellular phones ring and elevators stop running if they're due for repair.

Locating and either repairing or replacing all embedded chips in all city equipment would be impossibly time-consuming and expensive, officials say.

The city is outlining its efforts to handle the problem in a disclosure statement expected to be released at the end of this month. Drafting of the document is being overseen by Mayor Wellington Webb's chief of staff, Stephanie Foote - a sign that Y2K compliance is a high priority for the mayor.

Preparing city offices, equipment and Denver International Airport for the millennium is expected to cost city taxpayers at least $44 million over three years. That price tag - which doesn't even include the quasi-independent Denver Water Department - is conservative, and exact spending totals keep rising.

"It's a variable target for me,'' Bufalo said of the bottom line.

Setting priorities for Y2K repair is sort of like hospital triage.

Once equipment related to public health and safety is tested and compliant, crews will focus on a second tier of the city's fix-it list, which includes security cameras, burglar alarms, keypads, parking meters, elevators, cashier systems, fueling operations and heating systems. They're also working to ensure that the city continues to levy property taxes, speeding fines, license fees and dozens of other revenue sources that keep the electric bills - and Y2K consultants - paid.

Those tasks are expected to take up consultants' time as the clock ticks over the coming 12 months.

That will leave a third tier of equipment untended and possibly broken until higher priority equipment is fixed. Explaining the strategy, Bufalo said it may be cheaper to let things break than to spend the money and manpower identifying every microprocessor in every Xerox machine, garage door opener and thermostat.

"Sometimes you can spend a lot more money trying to analyze and solve problems than just dealing with them later as needed,'' he said.

The year 2000 will start on a Saturday, leaving city officials hoping to solve problems in third-tier equipment before the workweek begins. Problem is, experts say, businesses and governments throughout metro Denver also will be scrambling to fix their broken thermostats and copy machines.

"Just as there simply aren't enough people to fix the problems beforehand, there won't be enough to repair breakages immediately after,'' said Steve Segal, an attorney specializing in Y2K issues at LeBoeuf, Lamb, Greene & MacRae.

Anticipating glitches, Mayor Wellington Webb recently issued an order putting critical city workers on warning not to take vacations next winter so that they'll be on hand to handle year 2000 issues.

That could mean directing traffic or addressing and stamping tax bills by hand.

Bufalo says Denver is "slightly ahead'' of other cities in dealing with its embedded technology. Chicago and Albuquerque are lagging behind the national curve, while Portland and San Francisco lead the effort, local experts say.

In January, Denver will spend $30,000 to hire the Washington D.C.- based Public Technology Incorporated to, as Bufalo put it, "give us a sense of how we stack up against other cities nationwide.''

Still, no matter how much time and money city officials sink into the effort, experts say Denver will never be fully prepared for the millennium. Not even the wealthiest and most foresighted private companies will be totally ready.

"You cannot completely get to compliance. It's just not possible,'' said Cathy Moyer, a computer consultant who lectures throughout the state on Y2K preparedness.

"It's hard to say anybody's doing enough.''

Experts say Denver's plan - or lack thereof - is neither unusual nor unwise. Governments, agencies and big companies throughout the nation are realizing that time and budget constraints will keep them from fully inoculating all their high-tech hardware from the year 2000 computer problem.

What's different about Denver's approach, experts say, is the city's candor - admitting the likelihood that low-priority equipment will bust at midnight of the new millennium.

In the private sector, leaders of publicly traded companies are bound to disclose information about factors that could affect future financial results - including potential Y2K problems. Those withholding information could face fraud charges.

Even though experts say most companies won't fully prepare for Y2K problems, few, if any, are openly acknowledging that they'll suffer technical problems, as the city is.

"I'd probably cringe if a client took that approach,'' Segal said. "On the other hand, the city should be lauded for being that forthcoming. Many companies aren't.''

City officials aren't bound by the same rules, but still are responsible to be forthright with taxpayers and holders of hundreds of million of dollars in city bonds. That, officials say, explains the city's candor about likely Y2K inconveniences.

"We as a government have a responsibility to serve our citizens,'' Bufalo said.

And preparing for the millennium may have as much to do with public relations as it does with technology. Sources close to the city's Y2K efforts say the Webb administration wants to avoid making promises it can't keep - making itself vulnerable to the kind of disappointments that haunted Webb after repeated delays in opening Denver International Airport.

"No one wants to look like we're not doing enough, like we're in Y2K denial,'' said one city official who asked to remain unnamed. "But on the other hand, no one wants to spend tons of money preparing for a disaster that likely won't happen.''

Said Moyer: "The best thing we can do as a community is to just get an attitude adjustment, to lower our expectations. People need to anticipate that things will break.

"The moral of the story: Expect inconvenience.''

---------------------------------------------------------------------

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), May 24, 1999.

"Is it possible this show was a prelude to several others with different emphases?" -- Old Git

Yes. It could also have been aired as a "feeler," to test response.

The presentation was aired on one of the three (four?) major TV networks. Since ratings are important to those networks, the others will pay close attention to the show's ratings. Also look for viewer polls targeted on the program, and examine the results.

If the ratings are high enough, and the poll results suggest a significant impact, don't be surprised to see y2k presentations on the other networks' similar primetime shows. Also look for the morning shows to give more air time to y2k.

-- LP (soldog@hotmail.com), May 24, 1999.

I tried to watch it with newbie eyes, and felt it both scared me and left me hanging. Definitely hit an emotional cord.

The little 77-year-old mother litmus test reaction was Why dont they tells us what we need to DO? We cant change anything our government is trying to fix, but we can get ready at home. They need to show us specific ways to get ready, like collecting this much water in case of rationing, have these supplies on hand, etc.

Words of wisdom.

I hope those who watched will not assume it cant happen here. Felt like 60-minutes did stress it can happen anywhere. But again, they didnt report enough on what happens when simultaneous, multiple events take place in a localized area, where outside help is not to be counted on.

As a starter piece it worked. Now, they need a piece on local supply chain impact of international repercussions. And more follow-up on the 66% of local governments will have at least one failure of a critical system. The need to show visual examples of what a critical system failure looks like, IMHO.

We live in a sound-bite society, and a hard-hitting television special is still worth a thousand written GAO reports, for the greater public.

Now, if I was a city planner, after hearing about Montgomery County, Id get going with the local contingency planning, pronto. And be ready to answer a questioning public, without increasing their level of confusion or mistrust. HOW a city handles the contingencies, will determine whether a location experiences fewer problems, or more.

(There are still some pretty inept public officials in communities across the nation. Who knows... what their Y2K impact will be?)

Diane

(MoVe Immediate... thanks for the DC update. Dont be such a stranger and check in once in awhile, please! Be safe).

(Morrighan, thanks for the comments... and the good advice... When I have spoken to "people" re Y2K, I have found it detrimental to my cause (convincing them) if I belittle them or behave in a demeaning manner towards them. "People" just naturally don't respond well to that type of treatment. So I keep my words gentle and make my points reasonably.)

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), May 24, 1999.

zoobie:

"Give me knowledge, so I may have kindness to all." -- Plains Indians

Morrighan

-- Morrighan (matotipi@worldpath.net), May 24, 1999.

Didn't get to watch the show; I hope to find a friend who taped it. Meanwhile, I'm relying on FM's transcription and the input on this thread. So far, nothing has been said to change my 'contingency plans'-still prepping for 3 months at the least and 6 at the most.

Special thanks to Arlin for his graciousness in dealing with Steve Hewitt-I'm proud to 'know' you, Arlin; to Meggihan (sorry, bad spelling!) and Lily for the level-headed advice.

To Paul Milne-at least you didn't call Hewitt at 'maroon'. (Somehow, I find that calling someone a color has less impact than intimating that they are mentally deficient.)

Going to a community y2k meeting tonight; will be interested to hear of any feedback on last night's show. Back to the preps. Linda

-- newbiebutnodummy (Linda@home.com), May 24, 1999.

Spicer wrote I doubt that any of us who understand the breadth, depth, and scope of the Y2K problem came to this understanding by some instantaneous divine revelation.

Heck, I came to it that way, never'd heard of y2k, but after 5 minutes unblinking shock-absorption when I stumbled over Gary North late one night...

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), May 24, 1999.

Blue Himalayan:

You are fortunate. I assume you have more than a nodding aquaintance with computers. My family and friends tend to be the blue collar type with little or no understanding of the pervasiveness of computers in our society. To educate these people requires more than 5 minutes to explain the ramifications of Y2K. Education is a process which includes acquistion of information, assimilation, digestion, connection, and action. This normally requires some period of time (shorter for some; longer for others). Can we agree that Y2K with all of its potential scenarios is mind boggling even for the best of us?

-- Morrighan (matotipi@worldpath.net), May 24, 1999.

If people can't through transparent posts like lilly's, they are truly ignorant.

But in case a newbie is reading this, her post is entirely ficticious. it is meant to discredit Mr. Hewitt.

This is a VERY old BB trick... sorry "lil"...no takers on this one.

-- Diane J. Squire (Sacredspaces@yahoo.com), May 24, 1999.

Warning: There is a troll posting in my name.

*Sigh*

That is NOT how I react or word my comments, little one.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), May 24, 1999.

And besides, upon re-reading Lilly's post, I tend to agree with her.

;-D

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), May 24, 1999.

Any person trying to develop a personal plan for preparedness for the up coming days of uncertainty related to y2k gets that understanding alittle here, alittle there. There is an enormous quanity of offical reports and technical information to sift through. I don't specialize in any trade related to y2k, but I have studied the whole situation enough to feel I have a right to issue a fairly informed opinion even though I can't present or debate specific topics. Either way, one doesn't have to be a computer expert to disagree with Mr. Hewitt.

My personal observation of the show was Ms. Hanley, DC y2k manager, was really putting alot of thought into the questions and trying to give the best answers she could. The fine line between honest disclosure of the situation and scaring the witts out of people. I am speculating the Ms. Hanley has a better picture of the remediation process in DC than Mr. Hewitt does. I could understand her shaping her answers to make things appear "better" than they are; however, I see little motivation for her to portray the situation worse than it is. Thus I have a hard time understanding why anyone would attempt to "discredit" her?

I believe the question presented here was one's reaction to the 60 Minutes story. This was my husband's reaction. Now on the question of my personally discrediting Mr. Hewitt, I believe the person posing as Ms. Squire has done more to do that than I could have; and also reinforced my opinion that the pollies help to create balance from which most people can draw their own conclusions.

Mr. Hewitt, sorry to make our apparent disagreement so vocal, but I do agree with my husband. For perspective, he also considers the price of pork chops a crime also. :-)

-- "Lil" (homesteader145@yahoo.com), May 24, 1999.

To: lparks & others who recall the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf when contemplating some unfulfilled predictions of pre-2000 Y2k events

Remember -- at the end of the story, the wolf was really there.

-- No Spam Please (No_Spam_Please@anon_ymous.com), May 25, 1999.

I think that this was a very wise move on the part of sixty minutes. No hype. No bunkers. A great way to introduce the problem to most people. Lot's to think about for people on the fence. Too bad it didn't come on a year ago. I'd really like to see them apply this same kind of even-handedness to the Y2K plight of corporate America.

The most interesting stuff, however was what Ms. Hanley was trying very hard to tell us, without getting herself in troub

-- steve kuhn (steve.kuhn@turner.com), May 25, 1999.