Does Purgatory still use the Blood of Christ to cleanse us of unrepented venial sins?

-- DJ (newfiedufie@msn.com), March 11, 2005

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-- DJ (newfiedufie@msn.com), March 11, 2005.

DJ, why did you include the word, "still," in your question?

Is this a valid paraphrase of your question: "Does Jesus use His Blood to cleanse us of unrepented venial sins in purgatory?"

Can you explain what you mean by a "use" of the "Blood of Christ"?
Keep in mind that, if we go to purgatory after death, it is only our souls that go there, not our (buried) bodies.
Can you explain the process of using Christ's Blood (something physical) on souls in purgatory (spiritual)?

-- (corrective@lenses.org), March 11, 2005.

Is the Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross, somehow connected to the cleansing process of Purgatory. In other words, does Purgatory cleanse us of sin while simutaniously using the Sacrifice of Jesus to do this?

Does that make sense?

-- DJ (newfiedufie@msn.com), March 11, 2005.

My girlfriend asks me the same question. She is protestant and argues that Jesus' death ONCE on the cross is enough to give us eternal salvation. We do not need to purgatory or perpetual sacrifice (the mass) to gain salvation - we already have it. I am Catholic and don't know what to think. Is this what you meant DJ?

-- Seth (salsaquad@hotmail.com), March 11, 2005.

The Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross is the only means of forgiveness of sin, and is sufficient for absolute, total remission of all sin, past, present and future; and it produces this effect in each person to the extent that person accepts the graces of the Cross. Obviously it is not sufficient to say that His Sacrifice was sufficient, since we know that not all people are saved, even though He died for all people. Why? Because not all people are receptive to the graces of Salvation. Some people reject Salvation outright, and are lost. It should be apparent that there exists among those who receive Salvation a wide range of levels of acceptence of Salvation. Some people devote their entire lives to the service of God, living lives of exceptional holiness. Such a life of course does not "earn" heaven, since Salvation is a free gift which cannot be earned. Still, other people, who have lived with one foot in the Kingdom and one foot in the world, may also be admitted to heaven. These are the people who just "made the cutoff", so to speak, who were granted Salvation with the flames of hell licking at their heels. Surely such a person who died at the same moment as Saint Francis or Mother Teresa should not expect to stroll through the gates hand in hand with that holy person. Thank God for the gift of Purgatory, that the lingering effects of our lack of response to Christ in this life may be finally purged, so that the failure of our response in our human weakness may not be held eternally against us, and that we may someday join the spiritually pure before the throne of God, not because He allows that which is impure to come into His presence (the Bible tells us that is not possible), but because God in His infinite goodness He has allowed us to actually become spiritually pure.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 11, 2005.

We do not need to purgatory or perpetual sacrifice (the mass) to gain salvation - we already have it. I am Catholic and don't know what to think. Is this what you meant DJ?

No Seth, i wasn't speaking of Salvation. I already understand we are saved if we are in Purgatory. But thanks anyways.

Paul, i understand what you mean: Its just tough arguing with a protestant who throws verses at you such as "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness." This guy thinks righteousness is somehow making one perfect without the need of purification and that Purgatory takes away from Christ's Sacrifice. I was just trying to better explain Purgatry that's all.

-- DJ (newfiedufie@msn.com), March 11, 2005.

Also, why is it that the Orthodox church, if in fact they were once part of the Catholic Church, beleive in Purgatory as we do?

Isn't it also true that the Orthodox church never believed in mortal and venial sins at the time the Church of the west did. They do not seperate them as we do in the Catholic Church. Why did't these same Sacred Deposits of the faith not get passed to the Orthodox Churches when we were in Union?

-- DJ (newfiedufie@msn.com), March 13, 2005.

Sorry, i meant to say: "Also, why is it that the Orthodox church, if in fact if they were once part of the Catholic Church, NOT believe in Purgatory as we do?

Isn't it also true that the Orthodox church never believed in mortal and venial sins at the time the Church of the west did. They do not seperate them as we do in the Catholic Church. Why did't these same Sacred Deposits of the faith not get passed to the Orthodox Churches when we were in Union?

-- DJ (newfiedufie@msn.com), March 13, 2005.

I think your question is an answer...

-- (anon@anon.com), March 13, 2005.

testing

-- (anon@anon.com), March 13, 2005.

DJ

short answer is that East and West really only communicated in Councils. the East had barely heard of St Augustine, for example. language and cultural differences. personality clashes. politics.

recap: all the major early heresies were Eastern in source and resolved by Rome. Roma locuta, causa finita est. if it were down to the Eastern bishops, we'd all be Jehovah's Witnesses.

Florence and Trent "codified" Purgatory and declared it as belonging to the Deposit of Faith. Florence also saw the final collapse of "peace talks" between West and East.

the fact that the East might not accept Purgatory doesn't really signify anything.

as for the nature of the suffering, i think it's a combination the pain of the cleansing fire [at least spiritual] and the knowledge of the Beatific Vision and one's seperation from it.

as for the role of the Mass in the cleansing, Trent does say this:

"there is a Purgatory, and ... the souls there detained are helped by the suffrages of the faithful, but principally by the acceptable **sacrifice of the altar**; ... let the bishops take care, that the suffrages of the faithful who are living, to wit the sacrifices of masses, prayers, alms, and other works of piety, which have been wont to be performed by the faithful for the other faithful departed, be piously and devoutly performed, in accordance with the institutes of the church...."

it might not help you very much though in linking the suffering to the Cross. i think it's really just about temporal suffering -- a painful cleansing.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), March 14, 2005.

But i mean we have the Early Church Fathers of the West speaking of praying for the dead. How is it that the East, who also had successive valid ordination, not had this deposit of the faith also passed on to them. Sure, the need of communication between both sides was not always there but shouldn't there at least been a hint of praying for the dead in the East?

You are also mentioning Councils that came about hundreds of years later and after the Schism, but my question is: Why isn't there a trace of a belief in Purgatory in the East during the first few centuries.

-- DJ (newfiedufie@msn.com), March 14, 2005.