Hello- First I want to tell all of you that this group was a big catalyst for me to enter the Church (2 years ago), and I very much appreciate those of you who defend the truth. After two years of lurking I have a question. Is the bread properly consecrated if the priest accidentally says "this is the cup of my blood" for both the bread and the wine? thanks for your answers.

-- laura (lbnave@yahoo.com), March 10, 2005

Answers

And we rise tt he top withhe queation...

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 10, 2005.

"Consecration by desire?"

Interesting question. I would say no. Even if the matter and intention were there, the form was defective. Mother Church says you need all three.

-- jake (j@k.e), March 10, 2005.

No, Laura. The bread would not have been consecrated, and the Sacrifice of the Mass would not really have taken place.

If this were to happen when I am present, I would do something rather "radical." I would stand up and tell the priest what he did, asking him to consecrate the bread properly. Depending on the situation, I would do this aloud from my pew, or I would go up into the sanctuary to do it quietly.

Laura, thank you for your commendation of the forum, which I have been visiting for more than five years. I am thrilled to read that you were moved to join the Catholic Church! I hope that you will contribute many questions and answers here in the future.

-- (Old@Timer.here), March 10, 2005.

Laura, I want to give you a somewhat different opinion on this from a person whom I have found to be almost 100% reliable in my years of reading and listening to him. I am speaking of James Akin, a "senior apologist" at Karl Keating's "Catholic Answers, Inc.". James (or as he has suddenly started calling himself, "Jimmy") is a convert whose story appeared in the first "Surprised by Truth" volume in about 1995. Now he is an expert about many things Catholic. He was asked almost exactly the same question that you asked. Here is how he responded:

You're certainly right to be quite concerned. Any time something like this happens it is very disturbing to the faithful, and understandably so. Here's what I can tell you on the subject of validity:

1) The consecration of the cup is presumed valid. While it is totally forbidden under canon law to consecrate one of the species without the other (Can. 927), the praxis of the Church indicates that the consecration of each species occurs after the proper formula is said over the individual species. This is illustrated by the fact that we adore the host and the Precious Blood separately, as they are consecrated individually. Therefore, the saying of "This is the cup of my blood" over the wine should be a valid consecration.

2) The consecration of the hosts in this case is doubtful. While the proper words ("This is my body") were not said, the words that were said ("This is . . . my blood") express a theological truth since Christ is present under both forms [i.e., each form] in his body, blood, soul, and divinity. On the other hand, God may just want "This is my body" said over the hosts. (By comparison, he might not allow "This is my soul" or "This is my divinity" as valid formulas over either species, even though those are also theologically true.) Further, the hosts may not have been in a cup, in which case an element of falsehood was introduced into the formula. The validity of the the consecration of the host therefore seems to me to be quite doubtful.

As far as going forward to receive, while it would be wrong to receive an element that one knew with certainty had been invalidly consecrated, the psychological reality of the situation is such that when things like this happen that the faithful are so rattled that they don't know what to do and just have to make their best guess. In such circumstances, they are likely acting in conformity with their conscience in difficult circumstances are are not culpable if they make the objectively wrong choice.

As far as your worries for the future, I think you may be making too much of this. Such accidents are rare, and it is overwhelmingly likely that hosts you encounter in the future are validly consecrated. Certainly, you should presume that they are and act accordingly.

What I don't know is whether or not all of the dubiously-consecrated hosts were consumed at the Mass. If not, what the parish should do is have someone consume them conditionally as Communion. Whether they'd do that if asked, I don't know.

-- (Old@Timer.here), March 10, 2005.

As has been said the Mass was invalid. Both must be consecrated separately with the proper words (form).

I made the same mistake once, but I caught it myself; then I immediately lowered the bread and started over to do it right.

-- Fr. Paul (pjdoucet@hotmail.com), March 11, 2005.