this is pure hypocrisy!

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or...HOW TO PREPARE FOR LIFE AND REALLY FALL IN LOVE ON THE LORD'S TERMS by Steven H. Satterfield

PREFACE: TO PARENTS and YOUNG ADULTS David of old, choice in the sight of God, allowed his eternal soul to fall into the depths of hell. Can we say that God has been with us as much as He was with David in his youth? Can we claim the faith in God that David showed? Yet, David fell! And we can fall too, no matter how choice we are! To fail to believe that is to have fallen prey to one of Satan's biggest lies.

Why did David fall? He failed to obey his God. In doing this he physically placed himself in a position which could allow sin to strike. Had David turned away his head and not invited Bathsheba to his home, he likely would be exalted today.

I have looked into the tear-filled, sorrowful eyes of too many good latter-day saint youth involved in sexual transgressions not to know how easy it is to fall! I have asked myself time and time again why some fall and others don't. Surely such a question requires a very complicated answer. Nevertheless, after many hundreds of hours of interview, several common errors, among those who had fallen into transgression, became obvious.

Time after time, physical surroundings, circumstances, and activities were all repeated, and all seemed to set the stage for sin to enter into young lives. Bitterness, regret, sorrow, and a feeling of despair quickly replaced excitement and enthusiasm. The message of the following rules is plain and simple: You CAN and must be the one to control your life in order to be free from sin. Where you are, who you are with, where you are going, what you are doing, what time you are doing it, are all controlled by you, and will be to your good or to your detriment.

In order to help substantiate what I have written, I have used many quotes from President Kimball, but much of the inspiration comes from countless hours of interview with young people. To live these rules will require spiritual strength added to a sincere desire to do what is right. Prayer, scripture study, attendance at church, and service, are all necessary prerequisites to having the strength to follow these rules. The rules are strict, but make no mistake, so is the Lord! The rewards of a chaste life are far greater than the sacrifices necessary to follow this counsel. Nothing can be of greater assistance to you in obtaining the Celestial Kingdom than to be worthy to marry the right person at the proper time in your life in the Temple.

RULES FOR CELESTIAL DATING:

1. NO DATING UNTIL AGE 16; NO SINGLE DATING UNTIL 18.

President Kimball tells us, "Any dating or pairing off in social contacts should be postponed until at least the age of 16 or older, and even then there should be much judgment used in selections and in the seriousness." President Kimball goes on to counsel us that beginning the dating process too soon almost always brings young, immature marriages or immorality and sin. He says that early dating is often done with parental approval, "yet it is near criminal to subject a tender child to the temptations of maturity." Remember, NO STEADY dating until after missions. It is an excellent idea to always double or group date until at least the age of 18. (Quotes in order: Ensign, February 1975, p. 4; Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 223.)

2. MISSIONS BEFORE SERIOUS DATING.

President Kimball advises us that "every boy should have been saving money for his mission and be free from any and all entanglements so he will be worthy. When he is returned from his mission at 21, he should feel free to begin to get acquainted and to date." He tells us further that, "one can have all the blessings if he is in control and takes the experiences in proper turn: first some limited social get-acquainted contacts, then his mission, then his courting, then his temple marriage and his schooling and his family, then his life's work." A word to you young ladies of the church: You should always encourage a young man to fulfill his mission. NEVER be the cause of a young man deciding to stay home for any reason, for you will be held accountable. Missions for young men of the church supercede marriage in importance from ages 19 to 25. (Quotes: Ensign, February 1975, p. 4.

3. DO NOT DATE NONMEMBERS OR UNWORTHY MEMBERS. NO MISSIONARY WORK ONE-ON-ONE WITH THE OPPOSITE SEX.

I do not believe that the Lord would expect the choice young people of His church to find their eternal mates among nonmembers! He would not ask us to go against both HIS counsel throughout the ages or against the counsel of his prophets. President Kimball tells us, "clearly right marriage begins with right dating....therefore, this warning comes with great emphasis. Do not take the chance of dating nonmembers, or members who are untrained and faithless." Now, do not rationalize by saying that you are doing missionary work. The Lord does not instruct us to do missionary work one-on-one with members of the opposite sex. Fellowshipping should be done in groups. Missionary work needs to be done without hazard of emotional romantic involvement that could lead to conditions which confuse the potential candidate. Many potential members have been "turned off" by improper dating of LDS people. I am quite aware that we have faithful members of the church who have joined as a result of exposure to the church by his or her marriage partner. We are grateful for them. However, for every success story I have heard, I am aware of many sad examples of both members and nonmembers being hurt by not following the counsel of the prophet in this matter. (Quote: The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 241.)

4. DO NOT PARTICIPATE IN "KISSING-HUGGING" SESSIONS (making out, or necking, as it is called).

I am not talking about the serious sin of "petting," but the lengthy make out sessions that many feel are "okay" as long as you do not let it go too far. President Kimball teaches us, "among the most common sexual sins our young people commit are necking and petting. Not only do these improper relations often lead to fornication, pregnancy, and abortions-all ugly sins-but in and of themselves they are pernicious evils...". Necking or making out, the kissing hugging session, is wrong IN AND OF ITSELF, not just because it may lead to something worse. I am not saying that there isn't a proper time in a dating relationship to kiss. There is a proper time and place. President Kimball advises us, 'kissing would be saved at least until these later hallowed courtship days when they could be free from sex and have holy meaning." In an address delivered to returned missionaries (not high school-age people), President Kimball said, "a kiss is an evidence of affection. A kiss is an evidence of love, not an evidence of lust-but it can be. Don't ever let a kiss in your courtship spell lust. Necking and petting are lustful; they are not love.... I don't mind your kissing each other after you have had several dates, but not the 'Hollywood kiss,' not the kiss of passion, but the kiss of affection and there won't be any trouble. Now remember these things." (Quotes in order: The Miracle of Forgiveness; p. 65; Ibid., p. 231; An address delivered by Elder Spencer W. Kimball January 2, 1959.)

5. NO FRENCH KISSING.

This type of conduct is far too intimate and .... A French kiss does not meet the standards President Kimball describes above.

6. DO NOT PARK.

Especially in the high school years, parking in an automobile has been the downfall of many choice young people. Our prophet, President Kimball, tells us that, "in interviewing repenting young folks, as well as some older ones, I am frequently told that the couple met their defeat in the dark, at late hours, in secluded areas.... The car was too often the confessed seat of the difficulty. It became their brothel." BEWARE! Often I have found that a couple originally parked to discuss a problem or work out an argument-not to make out. However, after the problem was resolved, they kissed to make up and things developed from there. It does not matter the reason; DO NOT PARK. After a date, GO HOME! Once you get there, go into the house, ALONE!

7. NEVER, NEVER G0 INTO A HOME OR AN APARTMENT ALONE.

I estimate that 80 to 85 percent of the young people I interviewed, who were involved in sexual transgression of any sort, got involved in a home or an apartment alone. This is especially true of COLLEGE-age members who have their own apartments. If you would live just this one rule ALWAYS, you would significantly reduce your chances of ever falling. If you are in a home and everyone leaves but you and your date, ONE OF YOU should leave also! DON'T GIVE SATAN A CHANCE.... That is all he needs!

8. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER GO INTO A BEDROOM.

Bedrooms are not for entertaining friends of the opposite sex; not even to "just listen to records," watch T.V., etc. Do not let- a bedroom become a "familiar" place to be with members of the opposite sex.

9. NO BACK RUBS.

Becoming too familiar with each other physically offers liberties NOT entitled to single couples, and is wrong. Back rubs have too often led to more intimate acts.

10. DO NOT LIE DOWN BY EACH OTHER OR ON TOP OF EACH OTHER.

Lying down to watch TV, lying down in the park, on the beach, or wherever, places you in a position that is not needed and spiritually unhealthy. When you watch TV, SIT UP! When you go on a picnic, sit up! When you have a good night kiss, at the proper time in a relationship, don't recline to do it. ALSO, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER lie on top of each other! This is absolutely wrong. Remember, do not do anything you would not want your own son or daughter to do.

11. ATTEND ONLY WHOLESOME ACTIVITIES.

X-, R-, and most P.G. 13-rated movies are NOT appropriate to see on dates or at any time. President Kimball advises us that, "danger spots likely to have most appeal among the youth, and which should be shunned as one would shun a poisonous serpent, are undesirable movies and improper TV programs." I have had many members (young and old) tell me that they just "over look" the filth in a movie and not let it affect them adversely. To that I say baloney! You cannot go to a movie or to any entertainment that portrays sexual or violent material, as do most movies today, and not be affected and spiritually hurt. It affects you whether you like it or not! In fact, if you find that this kind of material does not offend you, then this is a sure sign that you have already been spiritually damaged in your life and do not even know it. We should avoid Drive-in movies for dates. President Spencer W. Kimball in talking of drive-in movies, said the following: "There in the car, in dark privacy, with suggestive, voluptuous acting on the screen, was Satan's near-perfect setting for sin. With outward appearances of decency and respectability, with an absence of holy influences and with legions of vicious, hovering tempters, even good youth are trapped into immoral acts--acts which would at least be much less likely in the living room or in the formal theater on Main Street." Further, if you find yourself at a party where alcoholic beverages are being served, where the lighting is poor, where couples are making out in the corners, where drugs are being used, or anything else not conducive to maintaining the spirit, LEAVE! When you are at dances be careful of your posture on slow dances (NO BEAR HUGGING) and your intimations on fast dances. Now, never, should you go to bars. Even "just to dance" or "listen to the music," is not sufficient reason to go to bars. If you frequent bars consistently, you will fall into serious moral sin. I HAVE YET TO FIND AN EXCEPTION TO THAT STATEMENT. (Quotes in order: The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 229; lbid, p. 225.)

12. NO IMMODEST DRESS.

Dress that is modest and becoming of an LDS young man or young lady is most important at all times, especially when dating. Girls, immodest clothing includes two-piece swimming suits (or ones with low necklines), halter tops, short shorts, tight-fitting clothes, low necklines, short skirts, etc. Boys, keep your shirts on and buttoned up! President Kimball tells us that those who do not actively resist the evil influence of immodesty will "absorb and foster it." He goes on to say, "I see some of our LDS mothers, wives, and daughters wearing dresses extreme and suggestive in style. Even some fathers encourage it. I wonder if our sisters realize the temptation they are flaunting before men when they leave their bodies partly uncovered or dress in tight-fitting, body-revealing, form-fitting sweaters.... We cannot overemphasize immodesty as one of the pitfalls to be avoided if we would shun temptation and keep ourselves clean." On occasion I have found young ladies who wore things that were immodest and did not realize it. All looked well in the mirror as they stood there with shoulders back and standing up straight. What they did not realize is that they don't stand straight all day--they sit, they stoop, they lean over and their clothes become immodest. Make sure all of your clothing is modest for all occasions. (Quote: The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 226.)

13. DATE IN COUPLES OR GROUPS MOST OFTEN.

Even after the age of 18, it is desirable to date in couples or groups. Dating in groups is not only safer, but you will find that it is much more enjoyable. You will also get to know things about your date that you could not find out any other way. As we get older, we tend to think that we are "above group dating." This is a serious error. Do not make single-dating the largest portion of your dating. Sometimes when we start to like someone quite a bit, we tend to single date almost exclusively .... this is a dangerous mistake.

14. NO LATE HOURS.

We should be in from our dates by 12:30 OR SOONER. Most proper functions you attend will end by 12:00 or sooner. You then have 30 minutes to get home. If it does not take 30 minutes to get home, then get home sooner. Do not make it a habit to be out late or up late for that matter. Not all moral problems occur late at night, but many, many do! When we are tired and have become quite familiar with each other through the evening, it is very easy to let down our guard ... that is all Satan needs. Resistance seems to be lower at night, so make it a habit to be in early from your dates. THIS DOES NOT MEAN that if your go to one of your homes you can stay longer than 12:30! You should both be home by that hour.

NOTE TO PARENTS:

You would be shocked to know the number of young people that I have talked to that lost their virtue in their own front room, or family room, or bedroom. Parents, care enough to chaperon your children while in your home through the entire evening. DO NOT go to bed until the "party is over" and everyone has left! Do not let a young couple go to parts of the home isolated for long periods of time. WAIT UP until they are home from date.

15. EACH PARTNER SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS OWN ACTIONS.

Dating is a two-way arrangement. You are each responsible for your own actions. Never allow another person to control your actions. Never say to yourself, "This young man (or woman) is so good that they could never do anything wrong. What ever they would do would be ok." Anyone can make errors. You must have firmly planted in your mind right from wrong, and do not let ANYONE talk you into anything that would not meet the Savior's approval. Know exactly what you are going to do on a date before you go. To go on a date without a plan may sound harmless or even exciting but can lead to trouble very easily.

16. DISCUSS DATING RULES WITH PARTNERS.

As you date, especially with those you really like, discuss these rules and your standards so that you each understand what you expect from yourself and your relationship with each other. Set the stops now while your minds are clear and unhampered by emotions. It's too difficult to set them in the middle of a passion-filled night. If a dating partner is not willing to follow these rules or thinks they are too strict, DROP THEM FLAT! Never let your standards relax...... even for what may seem to be the best young man or woman you have ever known!! If you want the help of the Lord and his blessing, follow his counsel.

17. DO NOT THINK THAT YOU ARE THE EXCEPTION TO THESE RULES.

Don't say to yourself, "Boy, do I know so-and-so who needs these rules." The rules are for you! To think that it could never happen to you is an error. It CAN happen to you. YOU ARE NOT SO IN CONTROL THAT YOU CAN AFFORD TO SAY TO YOURSELF, "Oh, I would NEVER do that, therefore, I can go into an apartment alone with my date, or park, or whatever." This is an open invitation to Satan to prove you wrong! And, he will! The biggest error of all is to think that you are an exception to one of these rules.

These are not all the rules we might follow in dating. But, I have never talked to a young person yet who has committed a moral transgression of ANY kind who has not broken several of these rules. REMEMBER, breaking these rules interferes with Celestial Dating and falling in love. They DO NOT bind you down, but rather free you from the things that cause countless heartaches.... Things that have contributed to many a Celestial candidate falling to a lower kingdom!

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005

Answers

This is Mormon....

-- jesse d. (jessededeyne@hotmail.com), February 15, 2005.

just check out the ask jesus forum...this one guy is saying that french kissing is fornication and that it shouldn't be done before marriage...

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

Obviously french kissing is not fornication, per se, but it is foreplay, specifically designed to arouse sexual desire, and therefore it should not be done except in marriage.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), February 15, 2005.

This man is a mormon; and we reject his declared faith.

But in the advice above, which purports to originate from LDS, ''Pope'' President Kimball, he is speaking the unvarnished truth about young people and sex.

It was always the teaching of the Catholic Church. Decent attire; modesty and grace in personal behavior, respect for women (in a man) and no sex play before marriage.

When we consider impartially, no one disagrees with Mormons in the matter of what constitutes sin.

I don't like to rain on that man's parade; but what about Mormon hypocrisy? This is a sect that militantly promotes false doctrines, is a belligerent enemy of Christ's Church and has always been associated with polygamous sin and racism. Do we need them coming out against ''French kisses?'' NO, We need them all to return to the Catholic faith of their own blessed ancestors. Today they are wolves in sheep's clothing.

Here is an extraordinary example of ''sheep's clothing'' for us to contemplate. The wolf explains an obvious truth to you in public. He wears a white fleece all the while. But in his ''stakes'' the fleece comes off and he's all wolf again. Teaching only the doctrine of men; and exacting the wealth of gullible men and women, among which are surely hundreds of distant cousins, all descended from one common grandfather in the 19th century. This is hypocrisy.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 15, 2005.


sdqa-- Paul's answer is valid and rational as usual.

But on a seperate note, did you really think that the nut's are smaller on this side of the fence?

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), February 15, 2005.



lol i didn't even know that this comes from the mormons...it sounded catholic to me...anyway do catholics also take such stance and forbid french kissing before marriage?

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

It onl spudned Catholci because of the "Hypocracy' in it... if you had read the docuent, and bothered to stidy Cahtlic linguistical styles, you woil see its palnl not Cahtolic.\

WHich brigns me to your hypocracy. You want us to give up pour faith and delcare yourself a free thinker, but you cant even be trusted to look at the source of your matierals, and understand the background of what is beign said.

since you lack understandign of the ourc eof toyr comments, and dont do anyhtign but make immature rants abotu how wrogn peel ar with no logical alterative, why shoudl we not call you a Hypocrite, oh free thinker? You dotn even get the facts before you make asertions, and yet you can think for yourself and we cant...

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 15, 2005.


the answer to this question is at is at 'kissing someone for fun a sin' at the ask jesus forum...the explanation why you aren't free thinkers...but could you just simply answer my question...do catholics condemn french kissing before marriagE?

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

We only denounce sin. If the kiss you prefer is one that leads your partner into temptation, and you intend that, it's a sin. Passion by itself is no sin. We are all passionate about a girl or boy in some stage of life. But passion that exploits another person's weakness is already sinful. Nobody ''French kisses'' on account of the kiss. It's the arousal they do that for.

If this is between two married spouses it is beautiful. If it's in the street, or under a tree, or in secret someplace, it leads to sin. Whether the kiss leads to undressing or having sex or not. Just giving yourself (or the partner) strong sexual stimulation is a sin. That is what our faith teaches. It's called decency.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 15, 2005.


so french kissing before being married is a sin? so you all catholics didn't kiss with your wife before you married her? incredible!...it's called lunacy

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.


sq- YOU JAVET PROVEN WHY WE ARENT FREETHINKERS, YOU DIDNT EEN KNOW THAT THE TERM "PRESIDENT" IMPLEIS THIS DOCUEMN SINT CATHOLIC.

You dotn STUIDTY what you tlak abotu, so just because you reject it doesnt make you a free thinekr, sicne you son een knwo what it is your rejecting.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 15, 2005.


Don't be a fool. I told you exactly why it can be a sin.

It's sexual arousal outside of marriage that is or can lead to sin. Not just the kiss. If lunacy were popularity, everybody would follow you everywhere you go. They would fall down in your path to love you. You ARE something lunatic. Give me your autograph, big sdqstupid! Hahahaha!

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 15, 2005.


"but could you just simply answer my question..."

sdqa---the answer is NO it is not a sin. But if it is with one of my daughters and I find out there will be hell!

Being French could be though.

I told you the nuts are no smaller on this side of the fence.

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), February 15, 2005.


Don't you think this is just a tad bit extreme? I mean, no french kissing? No one-on-one dates? Come on, now. If you want to say "no sex before marriage", that's one thing, but "no french kissing, no one-on-one dating, no PG-13 MOVIES (???) before marriage"? That's going off the deep end, IMHO.

-- Anti-Bush (comrade_bleh@hotmail.com), February 15, 2005.

AB-ITS Mormon, not everyoen ehre agfrees.

My central poitn is thought hat if Mormon soudns Catholci to SQ then he relaly shoiln be called a frethinker as he knows nothing about hwat hes on about in the firts place.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 15, 2005.



"But if it is with one of my daughters and I find out there will be hell!"

why?

and i'm not french,i'm chinese...

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.


sdqa..it's called being "chaste"..you should look up the definition.. Being chaste harms no one..it is remarkable how as humans with strong passions we do have the ability to keep control of ourselves when we CHOOSE to do so.

Choosing to restrict our passions until we are married is not any kind of "lunacy" or weakness..There are many other human emotions and passions which are strong..do we simply give in to them as they arise? To do so leads to WEAKNESS of character, not strength.. Self-indulgence is for the weak of spirit and intellect. The more one gives into "self" the more one loses any shred of self control and dignity. If one has no self control or self-dignity, one loses respect for the dignity of others as well.

If you choose to take a single passionate act alone and comment only one that ..as in "French kissing..is it a sin?" your mere question indicates either narrow immature thinking, OR a purposefull attempt to draw people of faith into a debate which you find entertaining. IMHO, I think you are bored and seeking amusement.How sad.

-- Lesley (martchas@hotmail.com), February 15, 2005.


I love it, sqda is slave to the modern religion of the world and doesnt even know it. emotivism has got this bull by the horns, hook line and sinker. sdqa, doesnt even realize that what he SAYS is that we should all be rational free thinkers, but that what he contradicts that with is the silly belief that if we don't surrender our rational thought to every random desire that comes along then we must be lunatics. This simply doesnt make sense. denial of silly whims is what we call CHARACTER, sdqa, i suggest you grow some and learn to deny your irrational and thoughtless desires.

by that same note, zarove brings up a very good point. is it truly intelligent to refer to yourself as a free-thinker when what you think is blatantly based on false assumptions? when we slave ourselves to unrepentant bias and false beliefs, how can we ever be considered free thinkers?

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), February 15, 2005.


"why?"

sdqa--- What father wants to be reminded his little girls are growing up. That's what other peoples daughters are for.

For mine I expect immaculate conception. Much like my mother 7 times over! lol

I know you are Chinese, but it was a fun cheap shot on the french. I thought Punker would like it. Besides don't let the overly righteous get to you, Aside from jumping on the WW_II question I've always tried to treat you with respect,. Unlike some others.

Thanks

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), February 15, 2005.


it's not based on false assumptions...'no kissing before marriage'...i think this tells enough...

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

I really wonder why you would worry about a sin like French kisses, sdwq, that only means you are moderately lascivious, moderately dirty around the girls. Some of them actually like that. You have demonstrated here that you can be absolutely evil, not just naughty. I still figure the devil controls you; he owns people like yourself, who have ZERO conscience.

But you're not a danger to unsuspecting souls who come here to read our posts. You won't fool anybody. To think of the immense damage Satan could do in our forum; if you had skills. If you came across as a leader. Satan sure picked a stiff for a helper; you're not helping him much. Thank God.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 15, 2005.


SQ, Your false assu,ption is that a Document Sounds Cahtolci tht mentiosn PRESIDENT of the churhc Kimball and makes refernece to the "lesser celestial Kingdom>"

think, hwo on earth does htis document rellay "Sound" catolic? Are we to seriosuly beelive that you are rational and a frethinker when you cant be bothered to chek the sources for yout informaiton so you know what your talkign about?

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 15, 2005.


“no one-on-one dating, no PG-13 MOVIES (???) before marriage"? That's going off the deep end, IMHO.” True, but in fairness, they seem to allow one on one dating after age 18.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), February 16, 2005.

zarove...the content seemed very catholic...just look at eugene's last post...french kissing can't be considered as sexual intercourse because there are no sexual organs involved in it...anyway...what do u think about this zarove?

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 16, 2005.

I htink that anyhtign that mentions terms like "Celistail Kingdom" and "Leser Kingdoms" sounds Mormon.

again, it dosnt soudn Cahtolci in dwording, it osunds Mormon, and you shodul at elats check what tyr talkign abyt before you post.

As for kissing, tis a cultural normative.

Ive been to France, men kiss each oher their as a form of generic greeting. It means nothing. here if I gave anothe rman a kiss, I woudl look Gay.

How we react to such things depends on our cultural conditioning.

Im not an American, Im British, so I think of french Kisisng as reserved for lovers and best after marriage as it leads ot passions. However, soem cultures odnt think this way and y reaction is pretty well culturlaly conditioned.

Simalrly to how I speak english primaritly rathe rhtna Russian or German. i leaned Germna, bty my thogt Bias is English.

As for Movies , well, its hard pressed to find any that ar rated anything that ar enay good these days, however, nto all PG-13 movies are relaly sex havens, soem are PG-13 for violence, lamguage, ect. Not t syat thats all good, but some movies are not that bad, just not recocmended for hose under 13.

thats why the MPA created the ratigns system.

But it won nessisarly automatcllay lead to sex, togh images do tend ot affct ho we think.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 16, 2005.


as a teen ( and we do havre quite a repretaion of relationship mishaps) i thought that i woul doffer my tuppence....

when i date guys... yes i do get off of my pc!... i kiss them (french kissing) and i have no problem with that.

i don't make out with them or do anykind of sexual things with them.

people say "but you are not having sex so whats the problems?"

well there is a difference of going as far as you can without sinning and staying as pure as posible.

saying that i'm not dating at the mo but i am very close to a guy... (and dont worry his dad is a pastor..!)

i hope to be a virgin when i get married but i cant garrentee that....

kt

XxX

-- kt (jc_died_4_me@hotmail.com), February 18, 2005.


kt--
When you and your partner are indulging yourselves in ANY wanton kissing and fondling, already you're in serious sin. Because it ''turns on'' men; and some women too-- getting all excited in a car or anyplace alone.

The sin is in arousing sexual passion, and that's what you do to your boyfriends. You are still immature and haven't realised you're playing with fire. Don't ever say ''. . . there is a difference going as far as you can without sinning and staying as pure as possible. --You AREN'T as pure as possible.

If you and he have the impulse to kiss; OK. The kiss for genuine affection and intimacy before marriage isn't a sin. But wanton teasing with French kisses and fondling is a definite sin. Take better care of your immortal soul. And never lead the boys into serious temptation, because if you do their own sins are attributed by God --TO YOU.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 18, 2005.


Why cant you gurentee ou will be a rignin before marriage, unless you ocntemplat enow commititng fornication, an if thi is the case, shoidl ou comit it, you sem to lakc the maturity to amdit error and will brish it off as a "CHoice".

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 18, 2005.

Don't ever say ''. . . there is a difference going as far as you can without sinning and staying as pure as possible. --You AREN'T as pure as possible.

misquote- i was stating some peoples views..

also

i cannot garentee it because we can all be tempted... even the most holy of people like me (JOKING!) we can all be drunk or whatever....

"Because it ''turns on'' men; and some women too-- getting all excited in a car or anyplace alone. "

alone...right so any place where 1 thing could lead to another.. trust me in my youth centre.. aint likly to happen! you can go nowherew with out some1 barging in (which i guess is a good sign)

i also trust my boyfriends ie. we are both christains we both know how far is too far and we both will stop each other if it is getting too heated...

-- kt (jc_died_4_me@hotmail.com), February 18, 2005.


Don't ever say ''. . . there is a difference going as far as you can without sinning and staying as pure as possible. --You AREN'T as pure as possible.

misquote- i was stating some peoples views..

But you amsdit to "Makeout" sessions, so the claim agisnt you still stands. You arent trying to live a Holy Life as God wodl ah you, tou instead thik of God's ways as a rule boom and look for ways ot bend those rules...

How seriosu can yo be for God if you act liek this?

also

i cannot garentee it because we can all be tempted... even the most holy of people like me (JOKING!) we can all be drunk or whatever....

I don't driunk. And alhtogh I certianly see how temptationa nd passions can lead to sin unwittingly, we can greatly reduce our chances of fallign into it if we make eery effert to live a holy life and aovid tmepration.

You, on the othe rhand, porefer to " Do as much as possible whtout sinning". This si impossble, sicne you incite lust diliberatley and think its OK because you arnet actulay fornicating. Ddnyt you read Mathew 5:28, it applis to WOMEN as well as MEN.

27. Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28. But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Tis best to avoid makeput sessions and diliberlayt goign anywhere with a gy as fr as makgn out becase it tends to lead to sex. and you cnanot say " I got druk and french kissed hima nd let him fel me up, but I didnt mean to have sex, it just happeend, so its not my fault."

Whose fualt was the drinking? whose fualt was the french kisisng? hwose fult was the feeling up?

Get the idea?

"Because it ''turns on'' men; and some women too-- getting all excited in a car or anyplace alone. "

alone...right so any place where 1 thing could lead to another.. trust me in my youth centre.. aint likly to happen! you can go nowherew with out some1 barging in (which i guess is a good sign)

Thwn whre do you make out wiht iys? right in firnt of people?

And aain, wodil you allow things to get to a poitn where cotroel was lost if not aroudn others? This is what you need to work on, and we say this for your own good.

i also trust my boyfriends ie. we are both christains we both know how far is too far and we both will stop each other if it is getting too heated...

Uness passion clouds boh your judgment, trust me, even sinre christaisn fall, and you afe acitng less liek a sincere beleiver and mroe like someoen whow ants ot score poitns by markign of the "Sins checklist"...

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 18, 2005.


You, on the othe rhand, porefer to " Do as much as possible whtout sinning".

woah you are missunderstanding me

if you look at my other posts you would see that i dont make out and i dont put myself in postions (alone rooms) where 1thing could lead toanother...

i do go into my bedroom (or his) alone with my bfriend but it really isnt like "that" if you get my drift.

i am not trying to bend the rules to suit me cos that would be wrong... french kiss is not a sin... it is only a sin if its intention is wrong....

-- kt (jc_died_4_me@hotmail.com), February 19, 2005.


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