A Continuing Discussion: Judaism and Christianity Pg. 2

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A Continuing Discussion: Judaism and Christianity Pg.1

A Continuing Discussion: Judaism and Christianity Page 2.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 05, 2005

Answers

I sure do hope Faith followed the link.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 05, 2005.


I suppose it is too much to ask for a summary of 'Page 1'... I've read some? most? parts? of it, but I'm not really sure where we are.

Is there even a list of outstanding questions that anyone is keeping track of?

Are the Jews winning? Are the Christians? (Kidding! must be the influence of the Super Bowl of Snacks tomorrow)

-- Pat Thompson (pat.thompson.45@gmail.com), February 05, 2005.


The Jews have a guaranteed promise of Salvation.

The Christians have a promised guarantee of Salvation.

In the meantime, the half-time show is just for entertainment.

Judaism does not hold Jesus as anything of significance to any form of Messiahsip or Salvation, obviously. The New Testament is of little or no importance. Judaism has their textual proofs and claims that Christianity has been built on less that accurate accounts.

Christianity is built on Traditions and Faith. St. Paul is a prime mover who continued the spreading of the Gospel that proved Jesus was the Messiah and our Saviour. Jesus is the way to God.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 05, 2005.


Yom Kippur has its purpose of cleansing one of his sins. Judaism has 613 commandments given by God. The merit system is crucial in Judaism.

Catholicism provides the Sacraments given by God. Purging of sin is crucial and accepted through Christ who died for our Salvation.

At least, this is my crude look at this discussion.

I am happy that we have had good discussions with John B. I am learning much. Thanks!

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 05, 2005.


"first of all i don't believe in the concept of sin and therefore also not in jesus as the saviour of mankind and the son of god

everyone of us 'sins',but i don't think that that makes us evil,i don't think we were supposed to be perfect,everybody makes mistakes,sometimes intentionally,sometimes not,but i don't think that mistakes make someone bad unless you really choose that way through life and don't care about other people and just do everything what you want,no matter if it's harmfull to others or not

the christian beliefs are that we have to believe in jesus and keep his commands to be saved,so if there was no jesus,every one of us will burn in hell,no matter how good we were,we surely did at least something wrong in our life and for our inperfectness burn in hell,this makes no sense to me"

[copied from 'the beliefs of sdqa',i don't know what the merit system all contains but salvation through christ like it is taught today makes completely no sense,believing in this man(or god to you?)doesn't make someone suddenly good and not believing doesn't make him evil neither]-sdqa

"further,there are many things defined as sin in the bible,but where i don't see what's wrong with it

all normal people know the basic differences between right and wrong,it's an archetype that we all have,some things in life can supress that and bring up new rules that are against the natural human distinction between right and wrong(like for example the army who are being taught that killing is the right thing to do and that you are defending your country that way while war should be the very last option for which our leaders should decide for and while most of the times wars get started when we don't need one or when we even aren't being attacked by anyone like the wars in iraq or vietnam or like for example the catholic priests who are being taught that it's wrong to get married while having the function of a priest)

so sin and moral are actually two different things "

[sin and moral are two different things but are often being seen identical by religious people,religion is just an useless burden,that's my opinion,it brought more problems than solutions,more wars then peace,more sorrow than happiness and closed people even more in a world of illusions where the fully capacity of the human mind can't be reached]-sdqa

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.com), February 06, 2005.



"Anyway so you see that the only way that we have values is that god gave us an outline to follow. That is the torah. God would have to give it to us and make sure that we have it for all of time otherwise we wouldn't know how to act or what to do. This is the only thing that makes logical sense. There is only one book that we know of that fits the qualification of coming from god and suriving through history unchanged and that is the torah."

[god gave the torah to the jews(if the torah comes from him off course)...how does he then expect form all the others to be 'good people' and keep the laws from the torah?... john,you can't deny that feeling guilt after murdering someone(if you a normal person at least...)isn't part of the human mind,it isn't something we achieved because we have been taught so,it's something we're born with...what i am saying now is that is eating pig was so evil and it was so important for us not to eat it that god would already have put this in our mind...does eating pig makes someone evil and not eating good? and what about masturbation? and what about not believing in jesus? and what about not shaving your head and wearing a wig? and what about covering whole your body and your hair so that a man can't see it? etc...

i repeat again would you all(christians,jews,muslims,hindus...and i don't know who else)keep your commands if you knew that there is no life after this life,no heaven and no hell,just this life here and now

my opinion about good and bad is pretty simple:we all have our freedom,to make this freedom possible we need laws and rules,my freedom reaches to someone else's freedom,laws should be here to draw that line...i can do whatever i want as long as i don't harm anyone else with it

i would still like a reply to this...

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.com), February 06, 2005.


Many Jews do nto beelive in an afterlife...and some Christins also lack this beleif, and still keep th ommandments...

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 06, 2005.

Paul, You say:

That statement is the great flaw in Protestant theology, which is responsible for the ongoing fragmentation of the Protestant tradition into an ever greater number of conflicting sects. Nowhere did Jesus preach to the general public that the Holy Spirit would directly guide them to all truth. This promise was made to one small group of individuals only - the handful of men He had personally appointed as leaders of the one Church He founded. It was that group of leaders who received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, no-one else.

You can't possibly be serious, Paul. You think that only the disciples received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost? It may have started with them, but it was given to many more people. Anyone who heard the truth/gospel about Jesus and believed it in their heart--received the Holy Spirit that day--and it has continued ever since.

Acts 2:14-20

Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning! No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

“ ‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

Acts 2:36-39

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off–for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

You also claim:

It was that group of men alone to whom Jesus said "he who listens to you listens to Me, and he who rejects you rejects Me". Many Christians today think that if they sit down and read the Bible, then automatically anyone who listens to their personal interpretations of what they have read is listening to Christ, and that anyone who rejects their unauthoritative interpretations of Scripture is rejecting Christ. But that simply is not true. They are not the recipients of that divine promise because they are not the leaders of the Church Christ founded.

But your theory is flawed, Paul. We who have received Jesus Christ by faith are His disciples. We follow the original disciples through His Word.

Acts 2:41

Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their<.I> [the disciple's] number that day.

You claim still:

And it is obvious that this promise does not apply to them because if it did, individual Christians could not arrive at conflicting beliefs by reading and self-interpreting Scripture. The Holy Spirit would not allow it. Such an approach to Christian beliefs is clearly outside of God's plan, since He intended that all men should know the truth, and the conflicting beliefs which result from such an approach cannot represent truth.

Paul, those who truly have the Holy Spirit--do know the truth.

Luke tells us: 11:13

If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”



-- (faith01@myway.com), February 07, 2005.


Italics off

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 07, 2005.

"Paul, those who truly have the Holy Spirit--do know the truth." As evidenced by who . . . YOU?

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), February 07, 2005.


Hey,

There's a lot of issues to tackle here. Sorry I haven't been on for awhile as I've been really busy. I just fixed the blower motors in my car, it was a huge job. Anyway the only thing I'll tackle right now, as it's late, is the guy who said many jews don't believe in the afterlife. The afterlife is a jewish concept. It originated with jews, is defined by jews, and continues to be the model that the three main religions in the world hold by. All, let me repeat, All religious jews believe in the afterlife. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool, not to sound to harsh. You are not a religious jew if you do not believe in god, the concept of a soul, and the afterlife, and of course that the torah was given to the children of israel at mount sinai. Again all religious jews believe in the afterlife.

As for sdqa's rantings about no god and morality...I'll try to address that tomorrow along with this holy ghost stuff.

Good Night

John

-- John B (bobcohen5309@yahoo.com), February 21, 2005.


Just one other thing to think about...I couldn't resist.

Sdqa, I'll answer all your questions. But think about this.

You asked a question and said what do you feel in your mind after murdering somebody. What is the mind?

Before you answer let me add some scientific information to the battle. Every molecule in your body right now was not there 7 years ago. Repeating every molecule that makes up your physical body was not there 7 years ago.

What is the mind?

Answer coming soon...

Now it's goodnight!

John B

-- John B (bobcohen5309@yahoo.com), February 21, 2005.


John,

What kind of car was it? The worst blower motor I've ever changed was in our Volvo station wagon. That took FOREVER. It's an odd setup in the middle of the car that has a shaft and impeller on both sides of it, so you have to do everything twice. Much easier is the Chevy kind of setup, although depending on the car, that can be a real bear too.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), February 21, 2005.


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