http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=74517

The researcher quoted in the study also mentions that domestic violence shelters (primarily for women) and treatment centers (primarily for men) have become an industry.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 30, 2005

Answers

GT, I hope youre life is never shattered by domestic violence of any sort. Even if there is an industry around this (suggesting someone is making money from these tragedies) I think this far outweighs the benefits to thousands of lives that can benefit from this.

From the article: "The most common cause of injury for women between the ages of 15 and 44 is domestic violence - you don't see that for men," said Margo Schaefer, community outreach director at Womenspace, a Eugene shelter and support group for battered women.

Could you explain your reason for posting this here?

-- Pat Thompson (pat.thompson.45@gmail.com), January 31, 2005.

Hi, you must be new here. There are several threads on this forum about women playing the fake "domestic violence" card, in order to gain custody of children in divorces. I posted this to show the other side, that women also commit domestic violence.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 31, 2005.

domestic violence industry, divorce industry, abortion industry... - etcetera...

Satan has many doing his bidding...

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), January 31, 2005.

I think that’s a false analogy Daniel. The abortion industry and the divorce industry exist to profit from abortion and divorce and to encourage more of these evils. The “domestic violence industry” exists to minimize the damage from the very real and common evil of domestic violence, NOT to encourage more of it. Sure there are cases where people are wrongly accused of domestic violence (or pedophilia or rape or drug/alcohol abuse) in divorce and custody proceedings. But this is merely a symptom of the evil of divorce.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), January 31, 2005.

Steve, I have researched this -there are many 'myths' promulgated by many agenda driven interest groups... I suggest you do some research -the industry you appear to endorse is not quite so innocuous or innocently driven by but divine motive. If you take a critical look at this you will find much...

Is it ever legitimately possible for any reason to discard Church teaching and substitute cultural innovation and hysteria driven agenda premised upon assumption contrary to Church teaching?

The ends never justify the means... --moral relativity is but moral relativity...

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), January 31, 2005.

I think this time you’ve really got lost in your own rhetoric Daniel. I don’t claim that people who run shelters for victims of domestic violence are necessarily “innocently driven by but divine motive”. But how on earth do you figure that they are an expression of “moral relativity” or “the ends justify the means” or that they “discard Church teaching and substitute cultural innovation and hysteria driven agenda premised upon assumption contrary to Church teaching? “

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), January 31, 2005.

The one who is the violent one is the one who controls things.

It always is blamed on men becasue they tend to be more physical than women. But the person who pushes the buttons is the primary abuser, that is what needs to be discerned, not the physically violent one punushed while the manipulator who brbroght it about wins. That is why there is so much violence because the system is not just and people think that marriage is 50/50. It is not it is 100/100. Total commitment.

Once agian the one who causes the violence is the one who should be dealt with most directly and harshly if needed, not the one who is more physical.

Karl

-- Karl (Parkerkajwen@hotmail.com), January 31, 2005.

Steve, To begin with I quote your justification: "exists to minimize the damage from the very real and common evil of domestic violence"

I suggest you do the work... You will find that under the umbrella of the domestic violence 'crisis' there are included many subjective things including verbal abuse...

Additionally -the term 'domestic' is used for good reason -the data is premised upon both heterosexual and homosexual relationships - data based upon subjective accusation alone...

Would it be surprising to find the root of the supposed domestic violence 'crisis' may simply be non-Christian domestic couplings? Finally, that Catholic sacramental marriages do not suffer from such a crisis? I would suggest you do the work and check the data rather than just submit to those parroting the domestic violence 'crisis' meme spoonfed to society in equal measure as the homosexual meme, abortion meme, divorce meme -etctera...

The common theme is quite easy to imagine if one considers it possible -evil...

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), January 31, 2005.

That was why I found this study interesting in that it shows that it is NOT always men who engage in this vile behavior.

Okay Daniel, now I'm confused. Are you implying then that Catholics married in the Church should be granted annullments if any domestic violence appears in their marriages because a sacramentally valid marriage would by definition be at least a safe, if not happy marriage? What you write here is why I'm confused:

"Would it be surprising to find the root of the supposed domestic violence 'crisis' may simply be non-Christian domestic couplings? Finally, that Catholic sacramental marriages do not suffer from such a crisis?"

Thanks.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 31, 2005.

You can stick your head in the sand and pretend that it doesn’t happen much, or that it doesn’t happen among Catholics, but I’ve seen the reality. Yes I’m aware that it’s far more common among defactos than married couples. But the violence is not imaginary. I’ve seen one of my regular patients come in for her methadone and I had to ask her for ID because her defacto had bashed her so severely that her face was unrecognizable. And coincidentally just yesterday an old friend of mine told me she had left her husband after he had habitually bashed her. Both are Catholics and they were married in the Church.

Karl, you disgust me. No matter how much someone pushes your buttons or verbally abuses you, YOU are responsible for any violence you inflict.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), February 01, 2005.

Steve,

LOL -stick with facts...

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), February 01, 2005.

steve is right, karl, (s)he made me do it is a scape goat for the weak. we are, ultimately, responsible for every action we take regardless of who attempts to "push our buttons."

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), February 01, 2005.

Okay Daniel, now I'm confused. Are you implying then that Catholics married in the Church should be granted annullments if any domestic violence appears in their marriages because a sacramentally valid marriage would by definition be at least a safe, if not happy marriage? What you write here is why I'm confused:

GT,

No -what I imply is that faulty agenda driven research is evoked ignorantly by some and intentionally by others as stealth justification for pursuing ends which are not morally justified as the norm but rather only justified exceptionally in but gravest circumstance e.g. divorce...

Regardless, it should be clear that it is my belief that nothing can nullify a valid marriage -especially psychobabble based means...

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), February 01, 2005.

steve is right, karl, (s)he made me do it is a scape goat for the weak. we are, ultimately, responsible for every action we take regardless of who attempts to "push our buttons."

Paul & Steve,

It is my opinion, that you both read into Karl's posting what you want to 'feel' he states rather than what he actually states?

I read the post to mean that just because a man may be the more physical of the two it is not correct to assume the man is always the perpretator of violence -as the topic study implies both man and woman should be looked at as equally potential to violence when determining the who...

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), February 01, 2005.

Once agian the one who causes the violence is the one who should be dealt with most directly and harshly if needed

no, daniel, i took this statement at face value... if the victim (man or woman) said anything provoking to the abuser, then the victim should be punished. maybe i'm not reading that right, but if i am (and i think that is the case) then i would judge that statement as objectively wrong.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), February 01, 2005.

Someone coming in with bruises inflicted by a spouse is NOT psychobabble.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 01, 2005.

Steve,

I’ve seen one of my regular patients come in for her methadone and I had to ask her for ID because her defacto had bashed her so severely that her face was unrecognizable.

Providers of healthcare have a *legal* obligation to report abuse, I hope you called the police, for both your sakes.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), February 01, 2005.

Someone coming in with bruises inflicted by a spouse is NOT psychobabble.

????

GT,

I assumed your intial confusion was due to my wording... It now appears you confuse yourself by wishing to interpret written words to fit your prejudiced notion of others...

If you wish to equate bruises inflicted by a spouse with psychobabble that is your reality... Regardless, bruises inflicted by a spouse are not a reason a marriage could be declared null...

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), February 01, 2005.

Daniel, I fail to see how anything I posted is not “facts”. If I can translate your thesis into plain English, you seem to be saying that people who want to encourage divorce artificially exaggerate the extent of domestic violence to provide justification for divorces? Maybe this happens, maybe not. What anyone would have to gain from it I don’t know. I do know that domestic violence is VERY common. That is a fact.

God bless you for trying to put a positive spin on Karl’s repulsive opinion, but it can’t be done. It would be monumentally unjust that a person who committed only verbal abuse “should be dealt with more directly and harshly” than someone who committed physical abuse. And yes some women do commit physical abuse too.

Frank, she had already called the police and taken out a restraining order against him. She wanted me to hurry as she was terrified he would find her there if she stayed too long. Yet a week later the two of them came in together like Darby & Joan!

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), February 01, 2005.

What anyone would have to gain from it I don’t know.

Steve,

The elephant in the room that many seem to not see is Satan. One can not authentically possess belief in God without belief in Satan and the evil Satan promulgates through man...

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), February 01, 2005.

"..bashed her so severely that her face was unrecognizable..."

And you give drugs to this with out calling the police? You should turn in your liscence to give out methadone, Steve. Find a new job, because its obvious you are missing a few nuts and bolts upstairs.

-- - (David@excite.com), February 01, 2005.

Well, yes, Daniel, I suppose Satan can inspire people to cause evil just for the ‘Hell” of it. But you had said there was an “industry” of “agenda driven interest groups”.

David, you are “missing” several things, notably charity and the slightest knowledge of medical treatment and pharmacology. You think the right thing to do to someone who’s been assaulted and in great pain is to refuse to give them any painkilling medicine!?

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), February 01, 2005.

Steve, isn't methadone a legal heroin substitute, something given out to keep an addict from perhaps committing crimes to get heroin? So you are in effect protecting the rest of society by doing so?

Daniel, with all due respect, you seem to not believe in domestic violence at all.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 02, 2005.

Steve,

If the authorities were alerted then you did your part. Unfortunately, you can't force her to get away from the guy who's using her as a punching bag, she'll have to wake up one day on her own and do that, hopefully before she ends up broken. There's always prayer.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), February 02, 2005.

Daniel, with all due respect, you seem to not believe in domestic violence at all.

GT,

Violence exists -I believe it... All violence should be justly dealt with as per Church teaching...

do not propogate it,

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), February 02, 2005.

“Steve, isn't methadone a legal heroin substitute, something given out to keep an addict from perhaps committing crimes to get heroin? So you are in effect protecting the rest of society by doing so? “ Yes. It is also a powerful painkiller. Someone who is addicted to opiates develops a tolerance to them, and needs much larger doses (which would kill you or me) to relieve pain from injuries. The lady in question would need more methadone than usual. To refuse her ANY as David suggests, would increase her pain and in effect do her further violence.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), February 02, 2005.

"To refuse her ANY as David suggests, would increase her pain and in effect do her further violence...."

If you couldn't reconise her face from the beating that she was given, than how much more abuse can this person take? I don't know how you see the "analogy" that give em the drugs and violence will stop. You were giving her a fix and she still gets beat to a pulp. There is a good chance this troubled soul will die sooner than later.

My prayers are with this abused soul.

-- - (David@excite.com), February 02, 2005.

“I don't know how you see the "analogy" that give em the drugs and violence will stop.” I think you’ve set a new record for twisted reasoning David. I made nothing like such an “analogy”.

If you ever get beaten to a pulp and seek medical treatment, I hope they don’t say to you “We’re not going to give you any treatment to relieve your suffering and treat your problems, but our prayers are with you. There’s a good chance you’ll die sooner rather than later.”

And souls don’t die Davey, they’re immortal.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), February 02, 2005.

Dear Christian brothers and sisters,

The issue of the domestic violence industry was presented in this forum some years ago in a posting "Protection for Catholics against false domestic violence claims" If anything, over the last 2 years the domestic violence laws have increased in severity and the draconian methods propagated by the radical left wing feminist movement have prevailed.

The domestic violence industry is about breaking up the family unit for the profit and reward of the profiteers that surround the divorce industry (ie. lawyers, women centers, Phycholigists, forensic accounts, Judges, social services etc.) Once invoked or a claim is made the family is on an immediate path to destruction and complete draining of assets. Children are as lost as a vanished thought.

The new problem is that these laws are being used against women now in record numbers. It is not about protecting women who are beaten and battered. That old adage is just that.....old nonsence.

Of course no civil person wants to see any person battered....male or female. Of course, most all men would come to the aid and rescue of a battered person.

The claims being made are not about truely battered people. The invocation of domestic violence restraing orders are for the most part used to get a jump in divorce litigation and make sure that the divorce occurs. There is no avenue for reconsilation or a positive post divorce environment. It is apparent that the overwelmingly liberal States with their liberal family courts have put absolutely no value on marriage. All policies, laws, statues etc. that are suppose to protect the family unit are vanished. All laws that will generate extensive billable hours for lawyers have become the defacto standard in the matrimonial industry.

Its real easy for a womens shelter advocate, unethical lawyer or malitious scorned friend to suggest getting a restraining order. Just make a claim of "fear" for example and the complaintant automaticly gets the house, the kids, all assets and the other party is completely crimialized. Not based on fact and law but just an accusation. All done ex-parte' (that's without the other party present or able to defend themselves)

Oh, and yes completely unconstitutional! Now who here knew that? And where is the ACLU???? Protecting terrorist and sueing Donald Rumsfeld of course!!

The issue is the billions in funding (our tax dollars) that pass down on the federal and state level into the coffers of the adovcacy groups ie. women shelters, who proclaim this problem is ever growing and out of control. The only thing out of control is the women shelter movement. The same applies to the abortion industry....its about the billions of our tax dollars that go into the "pro choice" aganda.

Violence in families is not out of control, the system that advocates for the protection of women is.

Lets see all the industries that follw the same victim stratagy as the domestic violence industry.

Child abuse industry

Rape (sexual) abuse industry

Elder abuse industry

Domestic violence industry

School harrassment industry

Abortion industry

Church (priest) abuse industry

Are we seeing a pattern yet?

Its called create a cause that identifies a new "victim class" , pressure our legislators to pass laws that will initiate new and continued funding for the cause and use that money to line the coffers of the radical left wing radical feminist agenda. Its also currently known as "Victimology".

Naturally, with this funding they have absolutely no accountability or monitoring for the effectiveness of their programs.

As we investigate each of these we see the anti-men, anti-children, anti-church,anti-marriage, anti-religion, anti-heterosexual women aganda surface. We see causes like Pro-Chioce, Pro-gay, Pro-Lesbian, Pro-transgender causes pushed into our schools and onto our children.

We see divorce at record levels because it is so easy and legally with the use of domestic violence laws one party can get everything for the asking.

We see grass root organizations begin to sprout up with the same infrastructure as the NOW organization.

For example, when the church abuse scandle was being sensationalized in the media a new group formed called "the voice of the faithful". Out of nowhere....fully funded...websites...marketing...etc. These people had an agenda that was a clear attack against the Catholic Church and the Holy Sea. Driven not to help others but to divide the Catholic Church and its followers. This group has far more backing that a few outraged parisheners.

We see human rights issues being pitted against marriage and man when the gay marriage issue is pushed through the courts via activist Judges against the will of the people.

Gay marriage means our children will be forced and indoctrinated in schools to not only accept the gay aganda but taught that this lifestyle is perfectly normal and acceptable, so why not try it out. Hence, bi-sexuality in young women is at an all time high in todays society. We see it on TV, in the media, etc. and it is being forced upon us. Certainly, being tollerant of other peoples preferance is ok, but having it legislatively imposed on society against the will of the people is wrong.

Its time all Christians stand up for their beliefs and expose the truth. Its time to get involved in the legislative process in this country and demand accountability and repeal of mans law that is designed and calculated to destroy life and the family unit.

Remember the devils greatest trick is convincing others that he or she doesn't exist.

-- M Silver (augiepal2000@yahoo.com), March 09, 2005.