Hello everyone,

I have Protestants friends who say listening to regular music on the radio is a sin, or going to a party where drinking and maybe even drugs are involved is also a sin. Even having a boyfriend or girlfriend who is not Protestant. My respone to them is that it all depends on the person. If the person has a strong enough faith and a strong enough personality then nothing could affect or touch them. It is true that many are influenced by today's music and thats all in the person. I think my friends are weak. I think they are hiding from the real world. I listen to all kinds of music and sometimes go to parties where there is drinking and drugs, but i have never acted upon any of them. Am i still sinning?

Thanks David A.

-- David A. (raydr2411@hotmail.com), January 23, 2005

Answers

David, yes, they are wrong to totally cut themselves off from the world. Listening to MOST "regular" music played on the radio, having a girlfirend of a different religion, and moderate use of alcohol, are NOT sins.

However this does NOT mean "it's all good". You have to be DISCERNING. SOME songs played on the radio are blasphemous or obscene; or they trivialize and consumerize God's great gift of sexuality; or they encourage misogyny, racism or violence. If you have a non-Catholic girlfriend you must be strong and secure in your own Catholic faith. You should make sure not to OVER-indulge in alcohol, and encourage your friends not to, and not to use illegal drugs. If you see a friend using illegal drugs I think you should tell them how stupid they are to do so. Sometimes the best thing you can do to help your friend is to destroy the drugs or report them to the police. At the very least you should not just stand there giving your tacit approval.

So go ahead and have fun, but do NOT put your faith to the test by deliberately putting temptation before yourself. We are ALL weak.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), January 23, 2005.

OK, here's the flipside of the coin.

I think going to parties where illegal drugs are used is wrong. If people are getting drunk or drinking and then driving (an illegal activity), then that's wrong as well. If we're talking about underage drinking, then it's just off the charts wrong. And if an individual Christian is being led by the Lord to avoid alcohol, then it's sin for them to drink. That doesn't mean they have a right to condemn moderate alcohol drinking in legal adults in situations where they can't drink and drive, but that's not the normal situation.

I know that the Lord tells us not to be unequally yoked, so to disobey that is sin. So if a young man who is dating to find a potential mate decides to apply that same admonition to his choice of dates, all the more power to him.

And while I don't see it as sinful to listen to some of the world's music, not all of it, I admire their choice to exclude all but Christian music from their lives. To say that it's sinful for anyone to listen to worldly music is immature, but not weak.

As Christians, we are called to live our lives wholeheartedly for the Lord and to deny the flesh. There are many Catholic aethestics who totally understand and agree with that and would take your friends stances as being far short of the required holiness that God calls us to, just ask any teenager who's been introduced to the Opus Dei.

I think that having friends who are so focused on pleasing the Lord, especially as young men, when they are th emost volunerable to the world's influence is a good thing and worthy of emulation. Later, as they mature, they might see things differently, but for now, I think the Lord directed their decisions to help preserve them from sin. I applaud their actions.

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (no@spam.com), January 23, 2005.

"Sometimes the best thing you can do to help your friend is to destroy the drugs."

Coming from the guy that gives out the methadone for a living. Why don't you destroy the methadone Steve? It gets people high as a kite!

Birds of a feather flock together! Maybe find different friends. Show me your friends David, and I will show you who you are.

-- - (David@excite.com), January 23, 2005.

Davey boy (and no don’t ask me to stop calling you a boy because your immaturity is so painfully obvious that I can’t really call you a man) what exactly is your problem? You’re cheesed off at me because I disproved your erroneous interpretations of Church teaching/history/scientific facts too many times? And every time I do, you let that thread rest for a few weeks, then come back on a totally unrelated thread and make the same absurd accusation that I had previously refuted! Methadone is a LEGAL drug intended to PREVENT people from using illegal drugs! I've got a major in pharmacology Davey boy. All you know is that “Drugs are bad.” Guess what? Probably several members of this forum wouldn’t even be in this life if not for the proper use of drugs. Why don’t you ever bother looking up the FACTS before making each salvo of your uncharitable vendetta against me?

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), January 23, 2005.

Avoiding modern music and parties where alcohol and/or drugs are being used isn't exactly what I'd call hiding from the world. The world is a much larger place than that.

It is more than possible to thoroughly enjoy oneself by listening to jazz, classical, opera, ragtime, etc. etc. and there is MOST definetly a high quality of life sans alcohol.

Why anyone would take themselves to a party, see that drugs were being used, and remain there for another split second defies imagination. I love old adages..they are so true..here are two of them which apply: Lie down with dogs and you'll get up with fleas. and, You are known by the company that you keep.

Is it a sin to listen to modern music? Is it a sin to BE at a party where people are drinking? It depends, doesn't it?

I've always measured things such as this by asking myself the following question; "Here I am doing thus and such, and Christ decides to return NOW..as in RIGHT NOW. Is THIS where I wish to be at that moment, and is THIS what I wish Him to find me doing?"

In my younger years, that thought kept me away from a great deal of parties. I didn't miss out on any fun though.

-- Lesley (martchas@hotmail.com), January 24, 2005.

"I've always measured things such as this by asking myself the following question; "Here I am doing thus and such, and Christ decides to return NOW..as in RIGHT NOW. Is THIS where I wish to be at that moment, and is THIS what I wish Him to find me doing?"

There's wisdom in your words, Leslie.

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (no@spam.com), January 24, 2005.

Almighty God reveals all that's known about good and evil; nothing's all good, and hardly anything is all evil. We are to choose good and reject evil. This is what our sponsors pledge for us in Holy baptism.

There are also some things and circumstances known to be occasions of sin. The are ''approximate'' to the sin they bring closer. We are tempted to sin, or carried into sin; sometimes unwarily.

A common example (much too) is the adolescents at their Senior Prom. They go joyously to mix with their peers, celebrate and dance. Not at all intent on sin. Yet, amongst the graduates are to be found sinful ones who recruit others. They offer alcohol, maybe marijuana or worse. Later on, they induce the girls to break any curfew that parents might have ordered. And many lose their virginity; if indeed that wasn't already lost.

Only in strict vigilance and by God's grace are young people kept out of trouble, even coming into serious occasions of sin. If they know sins are on the way during some parties or among certain groups, they must reject those occasions of sin. The same goes for bad lyrics in music, R-rated films, even many books containing within their text an occasion of sin. It's imperative for young folks to PRAY constantly.

Give God all your love, and make these petitions at the feet of His Holy Son:

''Lord, keep me ardent in my love for You; in my holy faith, the respect I've been commanded to give my parents;

And remove me from all occasions of sin, from the influence of the devil, and from all harm and misfortune; Today and all this lifetime; Let me never depart from you, Jesus My Lord and my God. -------AMEN.''

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 24, 2005.

Steviegirl,

You're a trip! The only thing you "disprove" is yourself every time you get the last post in on everyone you ever post with. I ry not to waste to much time with you because I know it won't sink in.

Abortion is legal, but it doesn't make it right does it?

-- - (David@excite.com), January 24, 2005.

Very uplifting contribution, David; ''Steviegirl.''

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 24, 2005.

Again, you need to look within yourself. Is your personal faith strong enough to withstand an out of control party or the occasional explicit song on the radio? If your answer is no, then there are deeper issues at work than a foul-mouthed rapper or a drunk guy.

But to completely cut yourself off like that is rediculous and closed-minded. If you only hang out with people exactly like you, you'll never learn anything. I know people like that, and they really aren't any fun to be around. I don't listen to much mainstream music, but that's more because it sucks than anything else. It's all fake, watered-down, establishment-approved crap. I listen to all kinds of music; most of it far removed from the mainstream. Punk rock, classic rock, reggae, even a little bit of hip-hop. If you hear something that offends you, turn it off. Simple as that.

It seems to me, David, that if you are simply listening to a healthy blend of music and managing to go to parties and saying no to drugs, then you are most definitely not sinning.

-- Anti-Bush (comrade_bleh@hotmail.com), January 24, 2005.

Gee David, I'd hate to see if you DID try to waste time on me. Why don't you actually make a contribution to the subject of the threads as I do, instead of just hunting down my name in the threads I have contributed to so you can make unrelated personal attacks on me? You seem to imply that treating drug addicts with methadone, although legal, is immoral. It is the most moral and effective treatment available for opiate addiction. I do this work because I am so opposed to drug abuse. It is the drug abuser who sins, Davey boy, the drug itself is morally indifferent and using it to cure and prevent diseases such as addiction is morally good.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), January 24, 2005.

no you're not sinning if you do those things...

you're protestant friends are just insane i guess...

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), January 25, 2005.

Here's a question:

Is using illegal drugs recreationally a sin? For example, it was temporarily illegal to drink alcohol in the United States, and therefore it would have been sinful to drink since you would be willfully breaking the law given by legitimate authority. OTOH, Christ had no problem making barrels of wine at Cana when the supply ran low so we can't say that there is anything *intrinsically* wrong with drinking alcohol, or Christ wouldn't have done this, right?

Illegal drugs seem to fit the same category, wrong by civil law, but not necessarily sinful in themselves if they were legal, assuming people are doing this to relax, and aren't addicted, etc. Would that be a fair statement?

Also, I tend to not use my turn signals when no one else is around, so I break the law as well, in my own small way. Is that really sinful in the same way as taking recreational drugs, or is disobedience to legitimate authority on this scale even considered sinful?

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), January 25, 2005.

Obedience to legitimate authority is only one aspect of the morality of using alcohol and other drugs. The other problem is that such substances typically weaken our inhibitions, some of which are the voice of our conscience. It is obvious that many people, after consuming a few drinks, will do and say things they would never do or say otherwise. Therefore the use of such drugs can be at the very least a serious occasion of sin, at least in some circumstances.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), January 25, 2005.

Permitting one's self to be the sole determiner of which law of society one can break and which one should be kept leads a person into nothing but prideful thinking. And pride leads to sin..

For some, it's the decision not to use turn signals..seems to be such a minor thing..yet when you actually give that decision some serious thought..it begs the consideration of "WHY"? Why not submit YOUR WILL to the laws of the land? What does it serve to pick and choose which of the "minor" laws you will or will not adhere to?

The speed limit is 60MPH, you decide that for YOU, this does not apply, and you drive 70MPH. Why? .. You say to yourself, "everyone else does it." " I know what I'm doing." "I disagree that 60MPH is necessary."

How is this train of thought any different from the guy who cheats on his taxes? It's not. Or the guy who steals from his employer by falsifying his timesheet?

Illegal drugs are just that.."illegal". very simple.

To nurture true holiness within ourselves,we must be able with God's grace to be wary of all kinds of sin..or opportunities to sin..only wanting to do and say what is pleasing to God. "little " laws, big laws..what's truly the difference between them if we are breaking them on purpose just because we can?

-- Lesley (martchas@hotmail.com), January 25, 2005.

Lesley, you are hot! Your answers have been right on and you are lead by the Holy Spirit! Keep it up! :o)

Anti-Bush, I bet you would find Jesus to be one of the boring ones. Many of us have been there done that and have many regrets. I certainly do and I was your party animal girl. I did not learn a thing by going to these parties except that there are many people out there who are messed up. Surround yourself with the "close minded ones" and you will grow. Ask yourself if this is where God would want you and be lead by that. Living for God and being HOT for Him is making sure He exist in your daily decisions.

God Bless.

-- jalapeno (jalapeno52000@hotmail.com), January 25, 2005.

Lesley,

So then if prohibition is reinstated, you'd have no problem arresting any Catholic priest with the temerity to attempt to use alcohol in their services right? After all, the government DID jail Indians that used peyote in their services. (during prohibition however, an exception was made for religious services, but that was then, the country isn't so Christ-friendly now).

Similarly, you would not have helped runaway slaves 100 years ago, but would have turned them in to their masters, as they were breaking the law, right?

And abortion is legal, so you wholeheartedly support it.

The point is, not all civil laws are also MORAL laws, and if you can't find at least one law your conscience tells you might be a bad law, I'd be surprised. The real question is when do you put your own values above those of the state, I guess.

Granted, my turn signal example is just personal laziness, but at the same time, I'm weighing the consequences -- do I mind paying the cost in traffic tickets if I get caught? Is there a chance I'll run over somebody? Do I think it is actively immoral not to use turn signals? Not something the Eucharist won't wash away...

"little " laws, big laws..what's truly the difference between them if we are breaking them on purpose just because we can?

So what you're saying is there's no difference between murdering someone in cold blood and littering. LOL, both the state AND the church recognize a difference between the two, the state going from infractions to felonies, and the church going from venial sins to mortal sins. Don't you recognize a difference between the two?

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), January 26, 2005.

“I tend to not use my turn signals when no one else is around” (Frank) That’s the very time when using them is MOST important, when you haven’t NOTICED that someone is there, and they could well be killed because they assume you’re continuing straight ahead and they intend to occupy the same space you’re about to turn into without warning.

OK, to keep things simple I distinguished between “legal” and “illegal” drugs, but the real distinction is not the legal status of the drug, but its natural properties and the purpose it is used for. Some “recreational” drugs are legal (eg caffeine) or legal in most countries but with a raft of controls (eg alcohol) because used in moderation they are virtually harmless and can even have beneficial effects. The vast majority of people who drink alcohol do not intend to get drunk. OTOH even the smallest dose of “soft” illegal drugs like cannabis has harmful effects, and the intent of the user is to induce hallucinations. Drugs such as morphine and methadone are beneficial and legal when used for medical purposes (to relieve pain or treat addiction) but illegal and dangerous (even if uncontaminated) when traded on the streets for the purpose of getting intoxicated (btw Davey excite, unlike cocaine and amphetamines, abuse of methadone doesn't make you "high", it knocks you out).

Tobacco is in a category of its own. Even the smallest dose is harmful to the user and others to a degree which outweighs its beneficial effects for the user, and it is as much or even more addictive than opiate drugs. But due to its long legal status and widespread use it can’t be made illegal overnight; though this should be the long-term aim of increasing restrictions on its use. (This is not a novel idea; even cocaine and heroin were freely available in the US a century ago until their dangers were realized.)

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), January 26, 2005.

Frank..my GOD tells me through my CHURCH to obey ALL laws of the land unless they are immoral laws against God. The Church guides her people in those determinations. My own personal reasoning is not above God's demands of me.

Venial sins and mortal sins.. Sin is sin is sin is sin is sin. Venial sin keeps a person out of the very presence of God..I'd say it is very important to try to avoid ALL sin.

-- Lesley (martchas@hotmail.com), January 26, 2005.

Not the best answer Lesley. What you are saying is that if the church didn't make a pronouncement on helping slaves --- you'd turn them in to their old masters.

Venial sins and mortal sins.. Sin is sin is sin is sin is sin. Venial sin keeps a person out of the very presence of God.

Now, see this is where we were trained differently. It is my understanding that mortal sins end up in spiritual death, unless properly repented, whereas *venial* sins injure our connection with God, but do NOT break it, hence one can still achieve salvation having committed but not yet confessed venial sins. Venial sin does NOT "keeps a person out of the very presence of God". What's the point of purgatory anyhow? If we were all in a state of perfect grace, there wouldn't be a purgatory.

Sin is NOT sin, sin can be mortal, or venial.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), January 26, 2005.

Lesley, I have marked you. Sorry for that. :o( I was hoping someone would come after me because I made a statement that could be taken in different ways. I won't say *sigh* to that either just in the mood to go round and round before Lent. ;o) If we want to get down to the nitty gritty, to disobey any law is a venial sin. IF WE GET CAUGHT doing one of these as in not putting on our turn signal what will happen? We get a ticket if the cop is having a bad night. We have broken a law that is set up in our country and we are to obey. I for one have tried to not speed, but I think my foot is made of lead so not sure what to do. ;o) Frank, not answering for Lesley, but my understanding as to a sin, you obey whatever the law stated wherever you are. If it is breaking the law to drink alcohol then you obey and not drink. You obey according to where God put you. Just because you know what is considered OK here now and not elsewhere does not give you the heads up to disobey the law elsewhere. Follow the laws according to where you are.

Steve!!! For once we agree on something. What you have said on drugs is right on! Yes! Be aware as to the difference between drugs that are now legal vs. drugs that can cause hallucinations. Many are out there and beware!!

God Bless.

-- jalapeno (jalapeno52000@hotmail.com), January 26, 2005.

Frank..It may not have been the "best answer" as far as you're concerned, yet my reply was not aimed at satisfying you personally.

It is up to the Church to define which things are venial and which are mortal. It is up to us to be knowledgeable of what the Church teaches. Since the Church teaches that to die in venial sin keeps us in purgatory, away from God..why would we CHOOSE to commit venial sins with an attitude of "they're ONLY venial sins" and "easily washed away". One is not guaranteed the next breath of existance, is one?

To knowingly commit sin..any kind of sin, is an offense against God. Why choose to offend God when one can equally choose NOT to offend Him by simply submitting one's will to another's?

Traffic laws cannot be by any stretch of the imagination classified as immoral.

Are there times when an individual can and should ignore the "law of the land"? Yes. and the Church teaches this. But only if and when laws are made which go against what GOD has said we must do.

I suppose that you will not be satisfied until I respond to your side remarks about slavery..sigh..

Do I need the Church's guidance to tell me what is a moral law? Yes I do. This is 2005. I did not live in the 17th, 18th or 19th centuries..I have no idea what Catholics at that time understood.

What I can answer is that if in today's world a law was enacted which said that a race of people were to be classed as slaves, I would indeed defy that law. The Church teaches that slavery is against God's law which supercedes that of man.

Yet, the inital discussion was about simple traffic laws and obeying them.

-- Lesley (martchas@hotmail.com), January 27, 2005.

if you are simply listening to a healthy blend of music and managing to go to parties and saying no to drugs, then you are most definitely not sinning.

Agree !!

Well , I did came to some pubs where people are blowing , but I said/say , NO , each time !!!! Why I came there ?? Because of the live concerts (also at clean places) (different kind of music) !!

Well , I did came/come to pubs where people are drinking , but I said/say , NO , each time !!!!

Even they would give me a one hundred million box or more , I will NOT drink or use (other) drugs !!!!

Well , I did came/come to some pubs where people are headbanging on metal , I only came there because I did (& still) like(d) this music !!!! Playing this kind of music , did give me the chance to get rid of my anger & frustration , without using (physical) violence !!

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), January 29, 2005.

Lesley,

Now we're getting somewhere! Earlier you said,

The speed limit is 60MPH, you decide that for YOU, this does not apply, and you drive 70MPH. Why? .. You say to yourself, "everyone else does it." " I know what I'm doing." "I disagree that 60MPH is necessary."

How is this train of thought any different from the guy who cheats on his taxes? It's not. Or the guy who steals from his employer by falsifying his timesheet?

But now you are saying:

Traffic laws cannot be by any stretch of the imagination classified as immoral.

The difference to ME is that you are making no distinction between things that are objectively immoral (your examples are both forms of stealing, of 10 commandments fame) and infractions that you say are definitely NOT immoral. Clearly though you do at some level you recognize this difference, or you wouldn't be able to say that traffic laws aren't moral laws.

I always associated sin with moral lapse, and government authority was used to enforce the good of all. If you say that traffic laws are NOT moral laws, then do you really sin by not obeying them? You aren't objectively doing anything immoral at the time, other than disobeying government authority. How far does "obeying legitimate authority" reach?

Our law has a saying "de minimis non curat lex" meaning "the law does not concern itself with trifles" do you think it possible this is modeled on God's law? How much time in purgatory do you think you'll spend for knowingly going 37 mph in a 35 mph zone? Personally, I think that if the only "sin" I die with is not using my turn signals all the time, my time in purgatory will be pleasant indeed compared to what it could be!

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), January 29, 2005.

Frank..it's not for ME to say. God says, through the Church, that we are to OBEY the laws of the land UNLESS the laws are immoral ones which go against the laws of GOD. If you choose to play some sort of game of "chicken" with God, laughing up your sleeve at such things as "how much time will my not putting on my turn signal get me in purgatory"..feel free to make those choices..

I stand by my own choices.. for those young people reading this thread.It is the higher road that one should ascribe to..that of SEEKING holiness in ALL things, large and small..for if we do not pay attention to the small things in our lives, we lose the opportunity to learn how to "die to self"..we will not be prepared then when the larger issues come along ..

Turn signals and speed laws may not SEEM to be significant in the scheme of all eternity..yet they are..it depends upon the attitude one chooses to nourish in one's own soul day to day.

-- Lesley (martchas@hotmail.com), January 29, 2005.

hey david,

seems like a lot of people are putting their two cents worth in quite a bit in this thread. i haven't taken time to read this entire thread to see exactly what everyone wrote so if i repeat something i apologize.

part of the answer to one of your questions depends on the context of the situation. how old are you? your friends? how are they acting when they are drunk and or stoned?

i have a good deal of friends who i spend a lot of time with who smoke, drink and share a joint now and then. do we get out of control? never. does having a good beer or two a couple times a week in the evening constitute a sin? absolutely not. does a summer evening passing a joint around cause any of us to lose our capacities to be good parents, hold down a job, be good partners to our spouses, be good friends to our neighbors? again, no. (some of the people who are in this group: college professors, psychologists, three ministers-all mainstream protestant, musicians, artists, businesspeople, photographers, etc). while these thing aren't necessary to life, we are lucky to be able to enjoy them so that our lives are enriched. much in the same way that sports aren't necessary, but they make life a lot more fun sometimes.

now, if you are in high school, or actually below the age of 24ish, we are dealing with something different altogether. the human brain is still in development up until that age. drugs and excess alcohol can possibly do odd, sometimes damaging things (i'm not trying to use scare tactics here. to be honest i've had friends who've done unimaginable things with hard drugs and have escaped scott-free as far as behavior and brain function. but the reality is that the brain is STILL figuring out all of it's connections until the midtwenties and so it's best to be on the safer side). it also depends on the types of drugs: pot here and there- nothing says that outside of the smoke inhalation it does any long term damage. cocaine, speed, pcp and other hard drugs are a different story. information from studies indicate that one is almost always in for a bad situation with continued use of these and other hard drugs.

how are your friends acting? i've been around people who are absolute jerks when drinking, smoking pot and i've been around people who are absolutely in control. do these folks use the fact that they are drunk or stoned as an excuse for stupid behavior? if they do this then they probably shouldn't be using drugs in the first place and if they can't control themselves then you'd be wise to not be around them and find some friends who do'nt use drugs as a behavioral excuse. (a note: you said that you think your friends are "weak" because they partake in this behavior. what do you mean? are you just repeating what you've been taught or are they really weak? just because someone has a drink or puff doesn't necessarily make them through-and- through a weak person)

as far as music goes? there is more crap on the radio than in a dog kennel. and by crap i mean most of it is bland and meant to be easy on most peoples ears so the record sompany can sell more records. (this goes the same for the christian music industry as well. i grew up in it. i've seen how it operates and there isn't too much difference secular at all). my advice to you would be this; explore all forms of music, even music that seems a bit weird or different or something you don't quite understand at first. eventually, if you are a thinking, feeling person (which you seem to be) you will discover a strand of music that is much more meaningful to you and will go beyond the question "is it a sin to listen to this or not?" someone ponted out jazz on an earlier post. give it a shot. (if you like modern day hip-hop try something like jazzmatazz or digable planets who both infuse jazz with really great rhymes and linguistic skills- or email me with your interests and i will do my best to point you to some enriching music). ultimately the answer to the music question is up to you.

the boyfriend/girlfriend thing: that's going to have to be up to you. i know when i was in high school and i would date the "wrong" person it didn't matter how many times someone told me it wasn't right, that urge to be in a relationship won out. i also know that while sometimes people would get on me about dating a nonbeliever some of those relationships were the best and most learning times of my young adult life. i have friends who are in some of the best relationships (we're talking the type of relationship that marraige counselors hold upas the model) where one is Protestant and the other is agnostic or jewish/muslim (yes, it can happen), protestant catholic. it all depends on the level of communication ane the value that you atttach to each other and each others beliefs. haowever, some people do need to be in relationships where their partner or spouse have a lot of the same belief system. either way, the only way you can figure all of this out is through your own process. in the end, it'll be you with that girl and not anyone on this message board. on that note, i would advise taking it easy with the girls and try to be friends with them, get to know who they are and why you like/don't like to be around them. eventually you will figure it out.

hope this wasn't too long for you. i just remember having so many of these same questions back in the day. hope i could help.

-- joshthomas (fridaynitegreen@hotmail.com), February 09, 2005.