There is one verse I'm always meaning to ask about that solo scriptua believers use to justify their belief in that. Yet I cannot remember where it is. Although I know it was St. Paul who spoke it and it goes something like this "Never go beyond what is WRITTEN so you are not puffed up with pride." Something like that.

Anyways I'm wondering what it means? I have heard people say it is just a verse about pride and ethics, yet what does that mean?

I'll look for the verse but one of you may know it.

-- Jason (Enchantedfire5@yahoo.com), January 23, 2005

Answers

Response to Proof Text for Solo Scriptua?

Both the King James version and the Douay-Rheims use the term "puffed up". Doing a search for that term I find it used in nine New Testament verses, all of them written by Paul, none of which make any reference to "what is written".

It is unlikely Paul would have made any such statement, since he knew that oral preaching was the primary means Christ and the Apostles used to spread the message of Christ, using writing only when necessary to reinforce certain elements of what they had already taught by preaching. Also, the only Scriptures that were identified as such during Apostolic times were the Hebrew Scriptures, what we call the Old Testament. If Paul had said not to go beyond what is in the Scriptures he would have been telling people to ignore the teachings of Jesus Christ, and his own teachings, which went far beyond what was revealed in the Old Testament.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), January 23, 2005.

Response to Proof Text for Solo Scriptua?

No Paul, I am certain the text says "never go beyond what is writen." I'll be back with the verse soon, I'm going to find it.

-- Jason (Enchantedfire5@yahoo.com), January 23, 2005.

"And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and Apolos for your sakes, that ye might leran in us not to thing of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another." (1Cor 4:6)(King James Version)

"I have applied all this to myself and Apolos for your benefit, brethren, that you may lern by us not to go beyond what is written,, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another" (1Cor 6:4) (Standard Revised Version, Catholic Edition"

wooop there it is!

-- kat (riesoracle@hotmail.com), January 23, 2005.

Doesn't it seem the least bit foolish to interpret those words in a way that contradicts the very activity of writing them?

It would be better to read them in view of the verse that follows:

"Who confers distinction upon you? What do you possess that you have not received? But if you have received it, why are you boasting as if you did not receive it?" (1 Cor 4:7).

Aha, now that makes sense. Obviously, one becomes "puffed up" when he thinks that his knowledge and talents are his own possessions; he "goes beyond what is written;" i.e., he considers himself to be adding to the canon of faith from his own cleverness--this is what makes heresy particulary sinful.

Consider this example: the redactor of The Passion of Perpetua and Felicity introduces Perpetua's work by writing,

"But let those take heed who judge the one power of the Holy Spirit according to the succession of times; whereas those things [i.e. "this work"] which are later ought for their very lateness to be thought the more eminent, according to the abundance of grace appointed for the last periods of time."

I am given to believe that St. Augustine condemned the implication here--that the Passion of St. Perpetua could be regarded as equally, or even moreso divinely inspired as the Bible. To say so would indeed be "going beyond what is written."

The Catholic Church, by contrast, understands all of her own Tradition to be the continual unfolding (not "addition") of the Biblical faith of the Apostles and their disciples.

-- anon (ymous@god.bless), January 23, 2005.

Yup that's it, thanks guys!

-- Jason (Enchantedfire5@yahoo.com), January 24, 2005.

Well...the obvious point to make about that quote is that "what is written" doesn't specify that Paul is talking about scripture as in the canon or his own letter which I doubt he himself put on par with Old Testament scripture...

The issue here is where does the authority given by Jesus to the apostles to make disciples of all nations for all time, reside in?

Protestants would have us believe that this teaching authority resides in words set to paper... but then, who gets to interpret this text? (they do, as it appears from their writings).

Catholics hold that what was revealed by Christ and shared by the apostles either through their written accounts (Gospels, Acts, letters) or through their actions and methods (liturgy, morals, Church structure) is the means by which the deposit of faith - that sum of truths we are given guidance in our salvation - is preserved.

So not a book alone, by itself, nor sacraments alone without a book... but the book, and sacraments, and creeds, and morals, LIVED in time and eternity makes up with us the treasure we seek to preserve in clay vessels.

I know. I know... not simplistic answer at all. But then, not everything that is true is simple.

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), January 26, 2005.

And then there is this scripture to consider: 2 Thessalonians, verse 15 "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or our epistle."

How interesting is this verse. There is no qualifier here that the brethren ought to only pay attention to that which is written in an epistle...CLEARLY the scripture verse says "by WORD or our epistle".

If the Holy Spirit had meant for scripture to be the SOLE source of God's word, this verse would never have been scriptual to begin with.

God doesn't produce error, only human beings do.

-- Lesley (martchas@hotmail.com), January 26, 2005.