Paul says dogma can develop and quotes Cardinal Newman. I say no and quote Pope St.Pius X. Also on good nativves.

SAINT PIUS X- "That Christ did not teach a determined body of doctrine applicable to all times and to all men, but rather that He inaugurated a religious movement adapted, or to be adapted, to different times and different places, is hereby condemned as error."(Errors of the Modernists no. 59)

IHSV - Your Holiness, but what of the popular "progress of dogma" theory, as well as the "changing sense of dogmas," theory?

SAINT PIUS X- "Progress of dogmas is, in reality, nothing but corruption of dogmas ... I absolutely reject the heretical doctrine of the evolution of dogma, as passing from one meaning to another, different from the sense in which the Church originally held it. And likewise, I condemn every error by which philosophical inventions, or creations of the human mind, or products elaborated by human effort and destined to indefinite progress in the future are substituted for that divine Deposit given by Christ to the faithful custody of the Church ... Condemned and proscribed is the error that dogmas are nothing but interpretations and evolutions of Christian intelligence which have increased and perfected the little seed hidden in the Gospel"(Sacrarum Antistitum, Errors of the Modernists, and Ecclesiam Suam)

IHSV - Your Holiness, many people say you musn't censure people (i.e., Scripture scholars, theologian, etc.,) when they construct premises from which it follows that dogmas, in this case the dogma of salvation, are false, doubtful, or hazy, so long as he doesn't directly deny the dogma itself. Is this true?

SAINT PIUS X- "That a Scripture scholar is not to be censured if he constructs premises from which it follows that dogmas are false or doubtful, provided he does not directly deny the dogmas themselves, is hereby condemned as error." (Errors of the Modernists, no. 24)

IHSV - Your Holiness, almost everyone today says that ignorant natives can be saved so long as they are nice, virtuous, and lead a good life. Is this true?

SAINT PIUS X- "Acts which spring from natural goodness have only the appearance of virtue; they cannot last of themselves, nor can they merit salvation."(Editae Saepe)

-- TC (Treadmill234@south.com), December 21, 2004

Answers

bump

-- TC (Treadmill234@south.com)), December 21, 2004.

If John Paul denies Pius X and all the popes that preceeded him there is only one sane conclusion.

They are all wrong.. or he is wrong. If he is wrong he is a heretic, and if he is a heretic he is not a pope of the Catholic church. One cannot be the head of that which he is not a member.

We may be popeless, but we are not hopeless.

-- TC (Treadmill234@south.com)), December 22, 2004.

TC show me the quote of Cardinal Newman? i has started researching this in connection with athread over at the Catholic forum. its a fascinating subject.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), December 22, 2004.

i think we really don't need a pope or a hierarchal form of a religious institution

the pope is considered holy and unfaillable!?

why??

he's only a man like you and me

and men like you and me have chosen him to be a pope

i think we should be realistic about this...

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.com), December 22, 2004.

Ian; That quote of Cardinal Newman's was Paul's. I don't kow where you can find it.

I peeked in at their forum and saw it, but I answered it here.

If I wrote what I wanted over there it would be deleted before I got my hands off the keyboard.

-- TC (Treadmill234@south.com)), December 22, 2004.