Hi there

I hope I do not accidentally offend anyone or strike any raw nerves as I can sometimes do that unintentionally.

I would like some advice: I live in a flat with 6 non-Christians. They want to have a small Christmas party on Friday. As a Christian I'd like to somehow spread the message of God one way or the other but I'm feel intimidated to do any preaching there (I'm sorry), because most of them seem to have heard it before. You see two people appear to have been brought up in a Christian environment but don't go to church; there's other things that make me convinced that they simply aren't interested. Another guy has a Christian mother who used to try hard to make him do bible study or Christian teaching, but he appears to have come to a conclusion that Christianity is a man-made thing based on his logic. Another apparently 'hates' Christians.

Anyway I'd still like to somehow demonstrate to them what Christmas is about but I'm not sure how. At the moment the best thing I can think of is just to give them presents or go to a church and celebrate it with other Christians and invite them along.

I'm sorry if this offends anyone but admittedly I don't see Christmas as that much of a big deal for various reasons as well. It is not mentioned in the Bible anywhere and more importantly I believe that as Christians we should be nice and kind to people everyday, not just once a year. It shouldn't just only be Christmas being a time of giving. And I don't like what the media or marketing has done to Christmas making it a money-making scheme. For me Christmas would be spending time meditating on God or Jesus more than usual. I mean I'm sure there's no set rule as to how one celebrates Christmas is there?

Have a good day,

-- Mark (-dont@email.me), December 20, 2004

Answers

"I'm sorry if this offends anyone but admittedly I don't see Christmas as that much of a big deal for various reasons as well. It is not mentioned in the Bible anywhere and more importantly I believe that as Christians we should be nice and kind to people everyday, not just once a year. It shouldn't just only be Christmas being a time of giving. And I don't like what the media or marketing has done to Christmas making it a money-making scheme. For me Christmas would be spending time meditating on God or Jesus more than usual. I mean I'm sure there's no set rule as to how one celebrates Christmas is there?"

yeah i agree with you about this dude

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.com), December 20, 2004.

Just as an aside:,br>Are you setting up camp here only for the purpose of bashing the faith of Catholics? You make it hard for others to treat you with kindness if all you do is DENY, DENY, DENY. Why speak ignorantly on things you have yet to understand, instead of respecting the Catholic Church? We would be willing to help you to the truth but you show NO modesty, or even a little courtesy. You keep coming on nasty.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 20, 2004.

we should be nice and kind to people everyday

This seems to be an Utopia , because of all the violence / war on our world , some people don't wanna have peace or they wanna have peace , their way !! __ Neither do I , I don't like all those bad/evil things we've seen this year & in history !! __ Why are we born ??

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), December 20, 2004.

Christmas is thoroughly described in the Bible! What we celebrate is the commemoration of Christimas!

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 20, 2004.

Mark.. what is Christmas "all about" to you?

Is it all about the secular idea of giving everyone gifts and having a party, complete with cute tags on the wrappings which say "from your secret Santa"?

Is it all about the time of year when people watch movies on TV such as "A Christmas Carol" and contemplate their place in society as it applies to their fellow man, asking themselves if they are Scrooge or more like Bob Crachit?

Or perhaps Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ? When I think about the birth of Jesus, and read about it in the Bible..and hear the beautiful Christmas songs such as "Oh Holy Night"..I am moved to be in awe again and again that He CHOSE to be fully human..wow. The birth of the Savior of mankind. "Fall on your knees" indeed.

and to GIVE gifts to others as part of celebrating His birth makes it meaningful to me..and to contemplate my relationships with other people at this time of year especially in light of His birthday, is more meaningful...and to gather with friends and family to share the joy of His birth is wonderful.

To assume that your friends would reject your efforts would be to assume a lot. Roomates/friends who gather together usually have some sort of commonality which allows for a degree of acceptance of expression even if there is disagreement on the subject matter.

Since you live with these folks, they must by now realize that you are a Christian. How surprised do you think they will be when you make a statement concerning your faith? So,why not simply "do" what feels good to you..if you feel like saying "I want to invite all of you to join me at my church to celebrate Christmas at such and such a time..thank you for being my friends." than say so.

If you would prefer to leave each individual a special Christmas card with a short Bible verse AND an invitation to join you in church, then do that..

public, or private..whichever you choose. Either way, I seriously doubt your roomates will be offended..some may be amused..some may feel confused..more likely, all will know your heart is in the right place, even if they disagree with your beliefs. I think you sound wonderful..Have a blessed Christmas.

-- Lesley (martchas@hotmail.com), December 20, 2004.

Well said Lesley. One of the little things I do to try to stop the obliteration of Christ from Christmas, is to discourage people from using the modern term “secret Santa” for giving anonymous gifts. The original name for this practise is “Krist Kindl” (Christ Child), which was unfortunately anglicized to “Kris Kringle”. After all, the Christ Child is the REASON for the presents.

It's sad that with the relentless pressure of secularism, commercialism and consumerism these days, many people like Mark feel they have to apologize for acting like or even being a Christian, or even try to hide it as something somehow shameful; even when everybody is (supposedly) celebrating one of the greatest truths of Chritianity, the fact that the Creator and Lord of all the universe became a human for our sake.

Wishing you all a happy and holy Christmas.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), December 20, 2004.

"I would like some advice: I live in a flat with 6 non-Christians. They want to have a small Christmas party on Friday. As a Christian I'd like to somehow spread the message of God one way or the other but I'm feel intimidated to do any preaching there (I'm sorry), because most of them seem to have heard it before."

Mark- Even though they may not be Christians, odds are they share the universal belief in God the Creator as we do. None deny the fact that a man named Jesus was born, some will say he was simply a man, others will say he was a Prophet or Teacher, while Christians and Muslims acknowledge the belief that he will Redeem this world at the End. (skipping some of the more detailed points to the last statement)

But the mere fact that each of you can come together as a family regardless of your Individual beliefs to share in the Joy, Love Compassion and even more so the deeper reflections into each persons own lives speaks volumes about the message that Jesus came to Live out in his efforts to redeem each of us. And to bring everyones focus back to God the Creator, The Father. and to the few things that he has ever asked from us. Read Isaiah 58

In this day too many men and women believe that only they can make people see the Light, Fact is a simple Acknowledgement of the above truths will open the door for the Holy Spirit to deliver the message needed to each individual according to their belief system. And it is through the Holy Spirit that a persons Heart and Mind will come to change.

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), December 21, 2004.

'Mark- Even though they may not be Christians, odds are they share the universal belief in God the Creator as we do. None deny the fact that a man named Jesus was born, some will say he was simply a man, others will say he was a Prophet or Teacher, while Christians and Muslims acknowledge the belief that he will Redeem this world at the End. (skipping some of the more detailed points to the last statement)

nice said michael But the mere fact that each of you can come together as a family regardless of your Individual beliefs to share in the Joy, Love Compassion and even more so the deeper reflections into each persons own lives speaks volumes about the message that Jesus came to Live out in his efforts to redeem each of us. And to bring everyones focus back to God the Creator, The Father. and to the few things that he has ever asked from us. Read Isaiah 58

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.com), December 21, 2004.

Lesley,

Great post.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), December 21, 2004.

Thank you so much for your answers.

I think I'll buy a gift for all of them together,wrap it up and put a card there that's Christian-related. I'm trying to decide which Bible verse I should quote...could you suggest any?

Thank you

-- Mark (-don't@email.mepls), December 22, 2004.

'thou shalt not kill'

maybe then you'll still be alive even if they don't like your present

-- jerry (doofykorn@hotmail.com), December 22, 2004.

Luke 2:8-14

"And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

And, lo, an angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them; and they were very much afraid.

And the angel said unto them, Fear not; for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

And this shall be a sign unto you: Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host, praising God, and saying,

Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."

-- Lesley (martchas@hotmail.com), December 22, 2004.

nice verse lesley:)

but mine is better:p

-- jerry (doofykorn@hotmail.com), December 22, 2004.

Has anyone seen the news lately about debates on "CHRISTmas v.s. Happy Holidays?" Macys stores are not allowed to use the word "Christmas" in case of offending anyone. As well as numerous people not wishing to use the word "Christmas" because it's not "politicaly correct." Well I got news for you, CHRISTMAS is a Christian holiday, celebrated by people who rejoice in the saviour Jesus Christ, who St. Nicholas worshiped and followed. If you do not like it, do not celebrate it. Thank the Lord many Christians spoke out and are being heard and actually are getting results. It's about time. Everyone gets to use their 1'st ammendment right except Christians it seems. Nevertheless, MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!:)

-- Jason (Enchantedfire5@yahoo.com), December 22, 2004.

I am sixty-four years old, and was raised as a Christian, and was until I studied religion seriously for about twenty years. Realising the absurdity of the Christian religion I turn to the realistic earth religion. Hey! But if some of you Christians want to celebrate the Pagan festival of the Sun, that is fine with me. Maybe someone should inform the Pope that December 25th is a Pagan day?

-- Ernest Olsen (pegasus@Yahoo.com), December 27, 2004.

i was also raised christian but i've studied christianity a lot and i found also a lot of absurd things and things that really make no sense to me

anyway i agree with mark on what he said in his first post

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.com), December 27, 2004.

December 25 is simply a day. If pagans designated it a feast day, so what? Various pagan cults designated dozens of different days feast days. That doesn't give pagans any special claim to those days. It would be ridiculous for God's Church to avoid certain days of the year simply because one pagan cult or another considered that date to have special significance. Besides, all the days of the week are named ater pagan "gods", so maybe the Church should just avoid all of them and just do nothing.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 27, 2004.

"Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel," which means, "God is with us." - Matthew 1:23

I have used this as my signature line on all my emails this Christmas. I have recieved alot of comments. All of them positive.

Oh and our priest made a comment regarding the season witha point I hadn't really ever thought of before.... Christmas = Christ's Mass. He said we celebrate it every week when we come together for mass and that we should ALWAYS think of Mass as Christ's Mass! What a beautiful and thoughtful connection !Have a wonderful New Year to all Ya'll !

Thanks and glory be to God !

-- Suzanne (james-betsy@sbcglobal.net), December 27, 2004.

Ernest, what is your "earth religon?"

From what I also understandCatholicism has placed Christian holidays PURPOSELY on pagan holidays in hope that they will vanish. You know, focus on what the Christians celebrate. I know that probaly offends many and if I were pagan, I would be offened. But I can only PRAISE GOD! I'de rather be an enemy to the world than to the God of the universe:)

-- Jason (Enchantedfire5@yahoo.com), December 27, 2004.

Mark, it's not the 3rd of January. What did you eventually end up doing? And what were the responses from your friends?

Had I been here faster I'd have suggested an advent wreath for the center of the table. (It's a Christian symbol and a Pagan symbol (assuming the Christian hater is Pagan) So you can tie both together. the Pagan can think of the evergreens and have his connotations, and you can have your Christian ones.

Or a simple Nativity Set for religious ornamentation on a shelf for everyone to enjoy. Unless the persons a die hard athiest, they have to admit that some are at least very beautiful sculptures.

I'd have given them all whatever gifts I was going to do, and I'd have done like Lesley suggested. You can get some really nice (for any holiday) cards that are blank on the inside, and you could have chosen 6 different simple beautiful quotes from Saints, The Bible, or Religious Scholars.

If they're your friends, you might be honest and tell them you don't want a material gift, if they could join you and you could share time with them at Christmas Mass (being a high holy day would probably make it a very special service) would be a gift you'd cherish above all others. (That works, I even got one of my closest Jewish friends back in highschool to agree to go with me on and off because it was important to me.)

It's still the Year of the Eucharist (for Catholics) for any holiday you could go to the bakery and get your priest to bless the bread for your holiday meal. (Or if you get to prepare any of the food you can ask your priest if he would bless some extra virgin olive oil for you to use for your holiday meal). (I usually do that for holiday meals when I expect the whole family.)

And on a side note. When I'm helping some aquaintences with thier shop during the holidays, I usually say Happy Holidays. Not because I'm embarrased to be Christian, or I'm afraid of alienating someone. More so because most holidays, no matter the religion usually happen around the same time (of course with exceptions). So saying Happy Holidays gaurntees that the customer will feel pleased that I acknowleged thier celebration. But I didn't say Merry Christmas, say if the person is actually Jewish. (though most people just grin and nod)

Love, Grace & Peace, Dorian

Abundant Kwanzaa & Prosperous, Healthy & Peace Filled New Year!!!

-- Interested (WhatDidYouDo@yahoo.com), January 03, 2005.

"I usually say Happy Holidays. Not because I'm embarrased to be Christian, or I'm afraid of alienating someone. More so because most holidays, no matter the religion usually happen around the same time (of course with exceptions). So saying Happy Holidays gaurntees that the customer will feel pleased that I acknowleged thier celebration. But I didn't say Merry Christmas, say if the person is actually Jewish."

Sorry Dorian but that's politically correct rubbish. I've got a calendar with the main holy days of all the major religions and there is NO evidence that the main holy days of different religions are grouped around the same times of year. In the case of Islam their year is about 10 days shorter so the Christian date of each holy day changes about 10 days back every year. Some religions have no particular holy days. Hannukkah is a very minor Jewish celebration, whose importance has been exaggerated partly for commercial reasons and partly for Jews to feel that they have something to do of their own while Christians are celebrating Christmas. (though Hannukkah usually ends before the Christmas season even starts). I have wished quite a few people Happy Christmas before discovering they were Jews, muslims etc. They all told me they were not offended in the slightest, but welcomed being wished a merry Christmas. Just about everyone, Christian or not, has some kind of Christmas celebration, and very very few have a non-Christian celebration at the same time. There is no need to apologise for being a Christian or to pretend that you are not. Non-Christians neither demand nor expect this. They want you to be what you are. They are more likely to be offended by exaggerated attempts to be politically correct. The push for exaggeratedly secular language like "Happy Holidays" is driven by a tiny, tiny minority of militant atheists who hate all religions but especially Christianity. And they have managed to scare many people into following their dictums for fear of "offending" anyone. Sorry but "Happy Holidays" offends me for one.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), January 04, 2005.

You've got some serious anti-athiest hate going on Steve. Which btw, just because they're athiest I'm sure they'll still get time and a half for working on a nationally accepted holiday, just like a person who celebrates christmas would. I don't know any athiests that have said..no no please schedule me for (blank secular holiday) and don't give me time and a half..I'm not a Christian.

If they were militant athiest, they'd want secular holidays of any religion abolished, and only have City, State, Historical (such as presidents day) and Patriotic holidays celebrated.

And I'm sure they wouldn't want the blanket statement of Happy Holidays.

Just because 'you' find fault with it, or because you do it, it doesn't make it the norm.

I will continue to use the blanket statment of Happy Holidays when I help at my friends shop, if it's Holiday time. Because especially in December that month has quite a few holidays (for different religions) and I'm not about to go politically correct and bust out my World Holiday Manual and wish everyone a blessed/wonderful/happy/merrry (insert holiday name) day by day.

Even if that'd be the most pc thing to do, on the off chance someone is a Shite from Greenland. ect..

You're just being antagonistic, and looking for things to gripe about. Knock it off, it's rude. And so 'not' giving Mark any suggestions on how to share faith without sounding like he's shoving his beliefs down his friends throats. Love, Grace & Peace, Dorian

Happy Kwanzaa & Charitable, Abundant & Blessed New Year!!!

-- GiveSuggestions ForSharingFaith (GetOverYourself@yahoo.com), January 05, 2005.

What a bizarre response Dorian. As I said, I wish everyone “Merry Christmas” and no non-Christian believer or atheist has ever interpreted it as “hate”. This IS what I’m suggesting Mark does.

I certainly don’t hate anyone, not even the tiny tiny minority of militant atheists (comprising less than 1% of all atheists) who start such campaigns, which are then taken up by over-sensitive misguided Christians who have been wrongly convinced that speaking or acting like a Christian may be “offensive”.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), January 08, 2005.