Last evening I heard a program that was quite interesting. It concerned a woman doctor (pathologist). She was an ex-Catholic,and had written a book on OBE and NDE.

Some very mysterious happenngs according to her.

What makes me skeptical is that all the stories are happy ones. That makes me think that Satan attempts to fool folks even at the very last minute of life.

-- TC (Treadmill234@south.com), December 01, 2004

Answers

Do you mean those stories that happen to people who lose consciouness or are close to dying, TC?

2 of my brothers were told their time wasn't up yet. They were allowed to live because someone else prayed for them. They had to change.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), December 01, 2004.

No I do not mean that every one is diabolical, but I do think that the idea that everyone going to beautiful place, and no one receiving punishment, is somewhat suspicious.

The pattern seemto be a wonderful experience for everyone. The only other possible explaination, is that those who saw hell, were so horrified that they blocked it from their mind upn returning.

I believe these people. They are not lying. If it is as they say, that is fine, but I would not let down my guard on that alone.

-- TC (Treadmill234@south.com), December 01, 2004.

TC

Elpidio has had numerous dreams.

they might be akin to the "out of body" experiences.

imho, his dreams are not really that pleasant. a lot of deaths, some visions.

the dreams i don't pretend to understand. the dreams i'm glad i don't have.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), December 01, 2004.

I've never had an "out of body experience", but I have experienced the "light at the end of the tunnel". I too have a suspicious idea of those events. I sense that we aren't getting the full picture during those events. I too think that something diabolical may be happening and that some people may be lured into something.

I heard of a man who had an "event". He had dark souls trying to pull him in. He perceived that his body was being destroyed. The problem I see is that the "event" was not consistent with Scriptures--the Great Gulf, which seperates Heaven and Hell, comes to mind. Once a person dies, he will see Jesus. How can one be pulled into destruction without first being judged by God? I don't believe such beings are actually experiencing any degree of death. I think that they are experiencing an acute realization of the consequences of sin and understanding for Salvation, but not death.

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), December 01, 2004.

Many years ago, I once had an experience that seemed to be an "out of body" phenomenon. It was very real and had a lasting impact on me. I have had many subsequent "feelings,"--- around waking, similar to those that preceded the one experience I had. They are not dreams, you can tell the difference, its truely not the same. I know the difference between "this" and a dream. Its a strong identifiable feeling of separation. I feel fully conscious. I know where I am, can hear the radio, clock ticking etc.

I find them rather frightening and stop it when I feel one coming on. Too scared to let it happen again.

The first one seemed so real to me that to this day, it inspired me to go to church and get close to God. Maybe it was a good thing. It made me (as a person plagued with doubts) more sure of a spiritual component to our make up.

P.S. To those who don't know me (and maybe those who do,) I have no psychiatric history. (still might be a bit nuts especialy for posting this)

-- Jim (furst@flash.net), December 01, 2004.

Hi Jim.

I have no doubts that such a phenomenon does truly exist. Some would think that such an "event" is evidence that an "after-life" exists. I have no doubts about an "after-life", but I do not believe that an "out of body" episode is evidence for an "after-life". I do not know nor can I explain such an event. It is like trying to explain my promonitions. Those things just happen. Those "events" happen seemingly without our control, which leads me to ponder why they happen in the first place.

There are only two possibilities for these "events". Randomness is not in my book, sorry. So, its source is either Divinity or Evil. I'm sure that I don't have to tell anyone that they must determine which source is directing such "events". My Chranel dream has got to be a message from God. I only need to see the fruits of that dream; my faith has grown. Have a look at those "out of body" adventures for the fruits it bears, Jim. Perhaps there is some good, purposeful reason for such "events".

BTW, all musicians are a little crazy to start with.

.................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), December 01, 2004.

Hi Rod,

Yes---It later occured to me (a good number of years ago) that maybe you couldn't have an "out of body" experience unless your body was "alive"--- Thus not proving, or necessarily a useful proof for an afterlife.

So basically I'm back at square one. I'm back to understanding the afterlife from a perspective of faith.

Still however, there are quite a few people who claim to have had such experiences, which I would have tended to dismiss---had something similar not happend to me. Those people find the experience to be rather profound. I'm not sure what to make of it but have chosen to stay away from it. Always have been a bit scared of the dark.

-- Jim (furst@flash.net), December 02, 2004.

Hey TC, I think you'll find this thread interesting:

Beyond Death's Door

It is a book about near death experiences.

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), December 03, 2004.

Luke; Thank you, It was an awful experience that fellow had. Better to be safe than sorry, as he was almost too late. Wonder why he got the chance to relate it; Maybe to send us a message.

-- TC (A@@b.com), December 03, 2004.

I saw a demon: that was a true "out of a body experience"!

He came in my bedrooma and litterally attacked me! I fought for a long time with no success! He was on me and tried to possess me. Only when I said loud the name of Jesus he vanished!

This is a TRUE STORY for a former Italian atheist!

-- (maria5465@hotmail.com), December 03, 2004.

I have no doubts that such "events" happen. It is the explanation of those "events" that have me confused.

........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), December 03, 2004.