Fri 12 Nov (Tolkien)

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After reading "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age," make a comparison/conection between an event/character/theme in this part of the Silmarillion and in earlier parts of the Silmarillion.

-- Anonymous, November 10, 2004

Answers

I saw the rings of power and the Silmarils very connected. They were both things of beauty and power and glory, yet the silmarils were more so a respective love and the rings a desire. Both corrupted those that desired them (Noldor and Ringwraiths) and both were taken by the Dark Lords. Each ring had a chance to restore Middle-Earth and heal it, and the Silmarils could have revived the trees, and in both cases the desire to keep such treasures to oneself made them worthless. Feanor couldn't let go of the Silmarils and Sauron wanted the rings to himself. Both involved disturbance between the races. Such as the dwarves and the necklace of the Naugrim that had the silmaril inm it(Thingol vs. Dwarves) then the Noldor vs. All for Silmarils and Beren and his adventure for the Silmaril. Then we have the rings, which bring into account Men (Ringwraiths), elves (Their struggle to keep them, hide them, and Sauron's lies to them) and the dwarves (He corrupted few with rings.)

-ror

Hope this isnt too late in the Slmarillion, more like the whole thing but I wanted to focus on the creation of the Silmarils and the creation of the rings.

-- Anonymous, November 10, 2004


I noticed that, throughout the Silmarillion, only the united forces of good can truly throw down evil (Sauron or Morgoth). To imprison Morgoth in the void, the combined forces of men, elves, and Valar are needed. Later on, in the first big battle with Sauron (at the end of the Second Age), elves, men, and dwarves must all join arms together to knock Sauron out of power. Finally, in the battle that ends the Third Age, an alliance of men, elves, at least one dwarf, an Istari, and a few hobbits is needed to finally completely vanquish Sauron.

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2004

Taking a look at the turns of the ages, I found that each new age was born with a problem. The first age first occurs after Melkor corrupted the song (When Middle-Earth was created). The second age began when Melkor was released, and he killed the trees. Finally, Melkor is sealed in the void, but mighty Sauron escapes and wrecks havoc in what becomes the third age.

~Tibbs

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2004


Mithrandir says thehelp oft shall come from the hands of the weak when the Wise falter. This is true in the Silmarillion when Men help the great Elves even though they are much weaker. In the fith battle, Turgon and Gondolin would be overthrown if not for the Hador who act as their rear gaurd. It is the man Earendil who sails to Valinor to seek the aid of the Valar. Finally, it is men who fight in the last great battle against Morgoth, in which the elves did not partake in.

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2004

stupid italics

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2004


-about my previous post, Mr.Waller forgot to end his italics, and for some Mozilla browsers it caused problems.

I think a similar event is the siege. In the Silmarillion there was the siege of Melkor that lasted for a long time. Now there is a siege of Mordor that lasts a while, not as long as the previous siege, but the type of war fare is still the same.

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2004

Tolkien is really big into the decline of that which is good over time, isn't he? In the beginning of the Silmarillion, Tolkien describes each successive age of the Valar, each one worse than the last (on Almaren, Valinor w/trees, Valinor w/out trees, etc). The power of the elves wane in the changeable lands of Middle-Earth (hence the linguistic shifts between Quenya and Sindarin as well). The Numenoreans and Dunedain wane in lifespan as the years pass. And finally, Tolkien says right out that the virtue of the elven-rings is to stave off the grief and weariness of time...maybe there's somthing about the elves' immortality there too.

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2004

Sort of going along with Tibbet and John, there is always a worse problem in one age than in the previous one. However, with each age of woe there are a heroes born to to right the wrongs. In the Quinta, we have men who fight the raging war against Morgoth. Similarly, we have Frodo and the Fellowship in the Third Age. It seems as if even though the side of good wanes, it always wins.

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2004

Similarities of the underdog suddenly having a great deal of significance. In the Akallabeth, the Men all of a sudden became of great importance and really took over as the story's main characters. In the sudden mentioning of the Hobbits, we are once again sort of bringing back up the previously unmentioned characters and pulling them into the spotlight.

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2004

I noticed that the the problems in the world can be related back to the Valar. In Morgoth's case they release him after his imprisionment and he goes on to cause huge havoc. The same is true for Sauron. Instead of imprisoning and and punishing Morgoth's greatest and most terrible servant, the Valar relaese him and leave him in middle earth. I dunno, but it seems to me that the Valar are pretty naive; but there is always the possibility that it was the will of Iluvatar.

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2004


I would extend what John said about the "decline of that which is good" to a generally diminishing of the world: in the first age, you have a battle of epic proportions, solely among the gods. By the end of the age, there are lesser beings such as men and elves involved too. After that, the Valar are removed from the equation entirely, and the battles ending the second and third ages are only fought among the men, elves, dwarves, hobbits, and maia. After this point, leading up to our own time in the "dominion of men," men are the only sentient beings left on earth, of good or evil. Maybe Tolkien thinks in the future pygmies will tell their children stories about the fantastic giants of the past.

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2004

I saw a few similarities between the oath of the sons of Feanor and how the human lords took the rings. Both of these actions are made by prideful people seeking power desperatly, and because of that they make bad decisions kinda recklessly. They both end up hurting their original races by making these bad decisions.

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2004

Along with the "decline of good," there is also a decline of evil as well. Morgoth starts out with the powers of a Valar and can take on many different shapes. He eventually gets stuck with the shape of a dark lord. Once Morgoth is defeated, Sauron takes over. But he is not as strong as Morgoth and so it is not impossible for good to defeat evil. Even later in the story, Sauron loses his ability to appear "fair" to people and loses even more power after the fall of Numenor. Is seems as if Tolkien is changing the conflicts from that of the myth, where everything is larger than life, to something less epic and more personal. Everything is lessened as time progresses.

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2004

Well, now the stage shifts from Melkor to Sauron. Again, the seduction of good into evil, and it's a seduction aspect, not necessarily conquering (yay for Voltaire). Sauron persuades and tricks people into serving him. He also crowns himself King of the World or some such thing, like Melkor did with the Silmarils. But, instead of Silmarils, we now have deadly rings.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2004

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