new exhaust pollgreenspun.com : LUSENET : MV Agusta F4 : One Thread
i talked to arata and sato this morning about producing a slip-on or full system for the mv. arata says min order is 100 qty for production (yeah right ) but sato is willing to start production if there is a min order of 40qty. dan kyle would be the dist. i havent called him yet but id like to find out if anybody would be interested in them. these pipes are some of the best pipes on the market hand welds, great hp gains and light as a feather. http://www.satoracing.com/ & http://kyleusa.com/catalog/index.html just to give you guys some info on dynos and hp gains on the two. i would like your input as well. im going to post this on some other forums too. regards Tut...
-- kingtut73 (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 03, 2004
Sir Tut.... Good luck with trying to pull any straight answers from the MV community as to interest.. They can't even deceide on a single chat site..
While the Sato pipes is a good idea..and I'd like to see some produced, I've tried and failed to get any feedback on quite a few potential new MV products..
I recently tried to find out if anyone would like a nicer, more comfy seat..You would THINK that there would be a lot of interest... Sargent was interested in producing one if I provided them with a little feedback as to what kind of interest in our community... Got ZERO response after posting across the 4 F4 chat sites.. Same with a F4 Throttlmeister Kit which I would think EVERY non-track riding F4 rider would want.. No response at all, ZERO... I ended up investing my own $$ and got those produced anyway..
As the MV community as a whole shows no interest in joining hands to pool their strength...for rallies or otherwise... Getting anything made for them is a fluke... a major gamble for any manufacturer.
Just think.. if ALL the MV guys hung out at ONE chat site, like every other brand/make out there.. and had ONE voice... we could approach MV corporate and INSIST that they fix the inexcusable on/off throttle problem, bad rear brake, and steering lock/thumb crush problem...
Until this happens.. we'll have to take what they give us and like it.. If you/we see any new F4 products on the market, it's because somebody somewhere decided to take a gamble and produce a product with ZERO idea if they'll get their investment money back... Like we're doing.
Good luck with gathering interest... Post any info as to if it's gonna happen..
-- Pirate (Pirate@acelink.net), November 04, 2004.
thats quite sad... you would think that such a small group of people would pool together and try to maximize resources/options for the bike. i think its a disadvantage not to find a great resourse of r&d for the bike i.e. pipes clip-ons,seats,frame sliders etc...there are two to three companies around. thats it?dont get me wrong they are good at what they do but wouldnt you want more options/products that they can sell? with the mv1000 out, which means more bike around. ive yet to read (cause im a newbie) any dyno #'s on the pipes that are available for the mv there is always talk about sound or how load it is. i came from a very tight group of rc51 owners statewide pooling resources,ideas etc.. to aftermarket dist companies and they listened to our concerns and changed things. but without any responses from the owners here sh!t ain't gonna happen. there are 40 bikes here that might want an aftermarket pipe that would increase hp for the bike help it perform better not just a cored out stock pipe. anyway enough ranting just my two cents. i was just asking
-- Jon T (email@example.com), November 04, 2004.
well heres a response from sato racing anyway ill quit now.....John,
Thank you for your e-mail.
It will be difficult for us to find the MV Agusta in Japan, and we need the bike there in order to do the R&D. Also, we have so many models of exhaust systems to manufacture at this moment. We might be able to offer 58mm riser bars in the future, but no ETA on those yet. Attached is the link to our riser clip on handle bars for your reference; http://www.satoracing.com/risercliponhandle.htm
Mikiko Osumi SATO RACING INC.
-- Jon T (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 04, 2004.
I agree with your comments fella's does not seem to be enough interest. There is a well set up mv site in the UK but its totally under utilised many posts don't even get a response I'm sure one larger voice would also get us gear at a much more resonable price than at present coz we pay more than any other brand for our bits including ducati
-- iain (email@example.com), November 04, 2004.
It is for real?
A few quick points here gents...
Just because your issues are not everybody else's not mean a thing. I don't answer many of these sorts of questions precisely because I do not have any interest. My contribution would be something like this...
I like the seat.
My thumbs doesn't get pinched.
The throttle response on both bikes across close to 20k of road, tour and track miles is excellent, no complaint.
If you want a pipe and chip they are available.
There are three available rearset options that I can think of off the top of my head.
There are sources for body work, screens and other bits. While not as broad a selection as the UJM's if you want it you can get it.
T-miester on an F4?? Well, different stokes...
I may well be off base here but some riders like their bikes and don't have the impulse to concern themselves with the activities of these posts. Has nothing to do with the interest in the bike or the community fellas.
As to lists and participation? This one was here before you showed up and I imagine that it will be here when you are gone. I too have been to and check in on all if not most of the MV lists. There seems a very good level if available information and inter-rider support. If you care to contribute, fine, have a ball. If it doesn't measure up to your standards, step off.
As to MV as with any other business let your wallet do the talking. If the service, responsiveness, availablity is not to your liking, simply don't buy the bike. They get to run their business as they see fit after all.
IF, and I specifically mean "IF" you have your own personal, self serving agenda, for drumming up info and market under the guise of "helping all us helpless little ol MV riders find goodies for our bikes" , and the MV riders of the various lists just happen to have your number, I doubt there is sympathy for being out a few dollars on a personal business gamble. Don't need no favors. As always...
Good Roads, Ride Well,
-- Scot Hennon (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 04, 2004.
I have to agree with a lot of the points that Scot made but I'd like to add my 2cents for what it's worth.
For starters you have to be realistic here. You are never going to get the numbers to have the buying power of R1/RC51, etc.... group or anything like that. That is just plain reality. Then when you take into account who, how and why people purchased their MV and plan to use them, well that just makes the situation even worse. But to each his own. To judge someone just because they might be more interested in the sound or look of an exhaust system is just plain hypercritical if you are honest with yourself. If you aren't racing then who is really using these bikes to their limits and the extra ponies are needed? Some people are into numbers. Some are into looks. some are into whatever, but again to each his own.
Pirate I recall back when you put out a feeler for interest in MV stuff. I responded right away, but you pretty much replied that you were focusing on road and not track stuff. So that being the case why would I answer or look into your products when you don't have the items I'm in the market for? As a business man you should know the game of supply, demand and competition better than anyone. With the MV it's gonna be hard to make a profit in the aftermarket game
Again like Scot stated not everyone has the same "problems" with the MV. I don't have a problem with the seat, stock clip ons, wind screen, fueling and that was before I got into track riding and used my MV for 800 to 1100 mile road trips. I've heard the comments from different companies that the MV guys don't spend the money to make it worth while to produce stuff for the bike. I can't really argue with that. A couple small things aside that would make it better for track use I don't feel the need to change a lot of stuff that is mainly cosmetic, because I think the bike looks great as is. I recall you hating the stock pegs. I don't have a problem with them. does that make me a terrible member of the community?
On the subject of the MV community.....well again with the numbers you really can't expect to get the type of turnouts of other brands. Again different strokes. I personally am not interested and wouldn't be interested in driving cross country to sit at a cafe and stare a bunch of MVs or just to hit some back roads. But if a track was invovled I would (and just did) do it in a minute. I'm sure it's the opposite for others. But that doesn't make either better or worse MV owners or community members. I find it amusing that people complain about all number of MV sites yet continue to visit them all. I check this place out but generally don't respond because the topics really aren't things that interest me, but also (and more importantly) the format makes repeated topics a common thing. But it's here for those who want it and like it. and obviously people find it useful because it's still around and being used.
People have said my site is "too" track focused. While that wasn't my intent but it just seems that the people who post the most like to ride at the track. The past few months has seen a HUGE spike in membership yet a lot of people still don't post. nothing I can do about that and I don't worry about it. Like this site, it's there for those who want it and it's only as good as the people who use it make it. when we were in Vegas a lot of people who said they were coming didn't for one reason or another. did we sit around and complain about the people who weren't there? No the 7 or 8 of us that showed up had a great time and will have a great time if and when we do it again. If the same 10 people post at my site over and over again. I'm fine with that because I like the content that we currantly have. If it's to "track focused" for some they are free to talk about other things
In regard to the power of the people and the "problems" with the F4 well I personally think a lot of these "so called" problems aren't as big a deal to most people as others make out. While I can't comment on the rear brake, I do know that MV must have listened to people complain about the clips because the 1000s were changed (as was the auto-side stand on previous models). But apparently MV has listened. Without a doubt the fueling could be better but for me at least it hasn't been the huge thing to get around, by either changing the gearing or just carrying a few more revs. bottom line bitching at other MV owners because they don't have the same priorities as you accomplishes nothing. It's a numbers game being an MV owner and depending on what you expect out of it you just have to accept that it's not going to be easy as owning something like a Yamaha.
Tut sorry to highjack your thread. i replied elsewhere to your topic, but since i am here. it would depend on how much they plan to charge for the pipes and since they are looking for a specific number before they would consider making one, would they be open to talking/working with us on the design. if they just plain to put out something and we'd have to "settle" then I'd just the same get a RG3 and be through with it
-- TP (email@example.com), November 04, 2004.
My feeling is that it's the nature of the beast.
Historically motorcyclists have mostly been people who want to go their own way. Choosing to persue a form of transport that has very dubious practical advantages. It may be quicker from A to B, but not legally, and you still realy need to add the time to dress up in the leather gear. Motorcycling is not a practical pass time, but is often enjoyed by some of societies most practical people ( I love paradoxes like that!)
The F4, as part of the greater motorcycling world, is realy a tiny subsection of what is after all a minority group to start with. We my friends realy are the ones trying harder than the rest of the individualists, anyone remeber that bit in 'Life of Brian'?. It realy should be no surprise to anyone that we can't/won't be pushed into pulling in any particular direction. Once you put your cash down you stepped out and made your own way. It's very difficult to rationalise on why anyone actually commits to MV but there is little doubt that those that do are changed for the better.
The fact is that if you wan't to step over the line you have to leave the backup team behind. The commercial world needs the numbers to make it work but you have already decided to stop being a number. So the next time you hear the crowd declare as one they are 'all individuals' you just shout back 'i'm not!'
-- Mark M (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 05, 2004.
thanx for your responses im not here to change the wheel. just add the option. the bike is perfect to me all i want is a rear hugger & powercommander. my wrist dont hurt like everyone said they were gonna do. hell the rc51 was just as bad. its not like i had a fjr1300 previously. but i just threw it out there to see. i bought the bike cause its beautiful and it was my dream bike. i also did the math on two other bikes that i would have to mod to my liking and it was cheaper for me to get the spr. it was done. but a powecommander is going to be put on. the exhaust option ill wait on. but i thought that arata/sato exhaust manufactures could improve the mv. my two cents.
-- Jon T (email@example.com), November 05, 2004.
Well, I just composed a whole litany of a response only to have it disappear in cyberspace, but it all boiled down to, "quit whining and just ride the motorcycle".
-- Kenny Nash (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 10, 2004.