Well... How did your candidates do?

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Looks like the fat lady is warming up but not singing yet...

Our local elections went the way I expected. Interesting that our counties in WA state are kind of like the nation as a whole (pun intended): E. WA is all "red" and W. WA is all "blue."

We kept all our incumbents, but not quite sure if we have a new D female or a new R male governor yet.

We had lots of initiatives: gambling, charter schools, nuclear waste cleanup/deposition (Hanford is in WA). Huge turn outs!!! I'm glad I voted.

I do wonder how we can still call ourselves the UNITED States of America. It seems so inappropriate. Oh well. Have a nice day.

-- Anonymous, November 03, 2004


Is it possible to "have a nice day", Sheepish...after last night!!?? So much for the expression "as Maine goes, so goes the nation"! The Bush family might live HERE, but most Mainers wanted him outta THERE!!!! Don't know if we all can take another four years. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if GW gets us involved in another world war. Nova Scotia here we come :-)!!

Locally, the two biggest referendum questions (bear-baiting and the Palesky tax cap) were defeated...but just barely. There was enough interest so that organizers will be out in the not too distant future with more petitions!! In other elections, this state kinda went as expected also. This was not an election year for the governor so we'll be keeping John Baldacci (D) for a couple more years. He's done some good things here, but I sure wish we could get Angus King (I) back though!!! He's just a damn nice guy :-)!

All in all...both Harry and I believe it's a sad day for this country and the American people will regret putting "him" back in office!!!!

-- Anonymous, November 03, 2004

Dunno - are the recounts over yet?

Yep, Marcia; I think we're pretty much fucked. I just hope no one assasinates the smirky one; the veep is worse, if that is possible.

At least my state didn't embarrass itself; tho I can't say that I am pleased with the "rural" areas. I stayed up til 0200 to see what Ohio would do. When did they stop teaching farmers how to read?

Most of our actual local (Shelby County) races were unapposed. The state races went the way I expected; which was the way I voted. No initiatives on our ballot. Does that mean we don't have any initiative?

-- Anonymous, November 03, 2004

A very sad day here too. I'm exhausted from crying so much today, and Bren said everyone at the University was walking around like the day JFK died. I've noticed the young folks seem more likely to be furious right now, even feeling uncharacteristically vengeful, while people my age are more likely to feel punched in the gut and need time to mourn and heal before we get back to work. If there is any justice, all these neo-cons will be behind bars eventually; their list of treasonous crimes is very long.

Human beings are stupid creatures; a majority of us never learn anything from history, and go on to repeat the same idiocy as the last group. It's now easy to see why Nazi Germany happened (the Germans remember......they know the stupidity of empire), and why all those seemingly normal people drank the kool-aid at Jonestown. They were, after all, true believers.

Polly, you have me a start and a giggle with your profanity! Thanks for the smile! Barack Obama disappointed me with his conciliatory speech; to hell with this 'healing' crap! He better fight like hell in the Senate for real people like he promised!

-- Anonymous, November 03, 2004

Well, it needed to come out, EM; and this was about the only place I could say it! Glad to give you a smile; if I find any more tucked away I will try to spread 'em around. Gonna need something to smile about. Dang it.

-- Anonymous, November 03, 2004

With the exception of my county commisioner, all of my candidates were elected or re-elected. After I voted at the opening of the polls to avoid the crowds, I came home to track the results and enjoy the "Danisms" like "This could give an asprin a headache" all night. Today I napped on and off between tracking the positive results the markets have experienced as a result of the election and working the worm ranch :>)

-- Anonymous, November 03, 2004

Hmmm - I just noticed that, among the posters to this thread, our states went the same way our personal votes did. Interesting.

-- Anonymous, November 03, 2004

This is just so hard to understand. I just had this feeling that he would be re-elected no matter how bad he was! The only thing that makes sense is that this country is scared shitless???

There goes the supreme court! Roe is toast! .....kirk

-- Anonymous, November 03, 2004

I am pleased to report that my wonderful US Senator Russ Feingold was handily re-elected, and my great (and gay, BTW) representative Tammy Baldwin. She had a cameo in Fahrenheit 9/11 -- everyone in Madison cheered. Of course, that was months ago . . . Also a couple of other really good local pols. Repubs never even bother to run against them, they know they'll lose, because these guys serve their constituants so well.

Of course, due to the Presidental debacle, I have been very shell- shocked (what an unfortunate metaphor). Not helped by my dishonorable brother who sent me several anti-Kerry screeds that were filled with lies. No explanation from him, but since I have acquainted him with Snopes multiple times, he's either stupid or willfully venal. And I greatly fear that it's willfully venal. Ironically, my brother was great opposed to being sent to Vietnam. He made sure he was in college so that he couldn't go. Now he votes for Bush. Apparently he approves of send OTHER people's children to die. AND he has a brother-in-law who is a Vietnam vet who suffered greatly with PTSD for years (he's doing better now). I have no idea how the BIL voted, but I did notice that the Kerry screeds neither came from or were sent to said BIL.

It's one thing to disagree politically, but to willfully spread lies is something else. You're probably wondering why I should be surprised by this from a Bush supporter, but when it's your brother, it really really hurts.

Anyway, yeah, my state went the way I voted too. But just barely. What happened to Wisconsin the Progressive? And speaking of what happened, what about the youth vote? I hope they're happy with the election results!

-- Anonymous, November 03, 2004

My son is only 17 now but he wanted to vote so badly this year. He did a report on Bush's inadequacy. In school, they had a mock voting and Bush won (one person voted for Sharpton) Anyway, he texted me to remember to vote and I texted back that I did, then said "Nader, right?" That's a running joke for us. I thought it was going to be closer and wonder if people changed their minds at the last minute.

-- Anonymous, November 04, 2004

I haven't heard so much talk about moving to Canada since Vietnam days. I listened to a little radio yesterday at work (my work load has me swamped so not much break time) but people were calling with their feelings, and a whole lot are reacting by talking about fleeing the country.

You know what really makes me roar is how these idiotic "Christians" have co-opted not just the religion but now the politics. As a Christian, I CANNOT justify the behavior of these bornagain fanatics. How can they even begin to discuss the election of Bush and his policies as MORAL?????????????????????????????????? They can get all excited about gay marriage and abortion, but support killing everyone all over the planet? HUH???

Fortunately, there is a groundswell a'comin. For one thing, my church is launching a national media campaign soon about our faith and our embracing everyone (like Jesus did). It's a start. Look for the UCC ads on teevee or at a the national website.

Ahem. That said, we still don't know who our governor is...it's down to counting absentee ballots and then perhaps a recount. At one point, the spread was 900 votes (out of the millions in our state).

I hope the younger folk will galvanize their anger and stay tuned in. One young woman that I know was watching the returns come in (we were in our local pub and she works there). She was so amazed/astonished/anxious about the election results. I so wanted to tell her it was all going to work out, that we were holding onto our Senator, etc., and to stay engaged. It was hard watching her disappointment. For these kids for whom everything happens instantly, telling her to stay involved for four more years (and a lifetime) probably seems insane...

Gotta go. Had our first freeze last night. Polly, you little devil, you!

-- Anonymous, November 04, 2004

Anybody consider the unique fact that we have now had 2 presidents recieve two terms right behind one another? While folks bitch about "how our nation is devided, enough new and crossover votes occurred to re-elect Clinton in 1996 and Bush this election. Actions by voters that results in two moderates from opposite perspectives and focused on isues in the same region leading our nation in a first of 16 years split between a dem and a gop can also show a unified nation to the world.

-- Anonymous, November 04, 2004

Have no idea what that statement means; ....please clarify if you wish to communicate. What 'moderates'?

-- Anonymous, November 04, 2004

Both Presidents Clinton and Bush are considered moderate in their views by the two perspectives. Together their presidencies are addressing a religious / political situation that has been skewed since 1948. Of course I doubt that anybody far out to either the right or left will comprehend the situation, but the corrections are continually being addressed. In the mean time feel as offended as makes you comfortable while the neccesary numbers of supporters cross over from both perspesctives as required to expedite the adjustments as required.

-- Anonymous, November 04, 2004

George Bush is a moderate!

Black is white! Night is day! Square is round!

Give me a freakin break. This is not about being 'offended;' although I would understand why you would think so. The "i got mine, screw you" mindset so evident in those controlling this country cannot see the forest for the trees, because their perspective is a narrow one indeed.

While you're waiting for the numbers to cross over, the environment is being destroyed, people are suffering and dying as we speak, more terrorists are being nurtured and trained, women's rights to their own bodies will be taken away, gays will be demonized and murdered once again, our economy will eventually collapse because its being managed by idiots, people from religions ( or not religion) other than right wing christian zealots will be out of luck inner city kids will become fodder for the neo-con permanent war machine (yeah, I know, you love that one......fills your pockets as you have made clear in the past) because they have no other choices since jobs will be noexistant. Give me a break.......and do NOT belittle those of us who actually CARE about other people, and who are the true patriots and are heartsick at watching it go down the toilet by inferring that we don't get it. We get it just fine, thanks, and it sucks!!!!!!!!!!

-- Anonymous, November 04, 2004

Jay, who ARE you...really???

Kirk, I sure hope that Roe isn't toast!!!!! I'm beyond the age where I'd have to worry, but I worry about my granddaughter's rights being taken away from her.

Polly, we ARE truly (and royally) fucked. I can honestly say that I'm more scared about this country's future than I was during Y2K!

-- Anonymous, November 04, 2004

The environment is always being altered to fit our needs and desires and yet remains viable. Take manicured grounds for instance. Without attention they quickly revert to overgrowth. There also is the pollution dependent tree species being developed for use in urban areas. In fresh air they die.

Yes, you are the one offended as you are the one complaining to most when complaints are being voiced.

-- Anonymous, November 04, 2004

If I am understanding yet another of your awkward sentences, I'll thank you not to assume you know when someone other than yourself is offended.

A pollution-dependent tree species that dies in fresh air! Fantastic! See, environmental degradation is now a GOOD thing! Bad is good! Dirty is clean! Three cheers for the doublespeak and newspeak of 1984, only 20 years late!

-- Anonymous, November 04, 2004

Yes, time to revisit Orweill for sure! Karl Rove would appreciate Mr. S.'s little saying: "repetition is the spice of life." Only thing, Mr. S. has always said it in *jest*...

I think I understand what Jay was saying about the "moderates" but that would depend on the definition of moderate (or the definition of what "is" is!). From listening to Republicans who were on the fence for Bush/Kerry, I understand they did feel that compared to Kerry, Clinton was a moderate. However, the last moderate *Republican* that I can recall was probably Gerald Ford, not George Bush!

Growing up in WA state, I can tell you about 'moderates.' We had a 3- term Republican governor: Dan Evans. He was a good guy who united our state. We also had Sen. Scoop Jackson who as you know was a Democrat (I didn't agree with his war-mongering stance) who united our state too. He was a 'moderate' Democrat (I can hardly write it, but there you have it).

Geo. W. does not seem the least bit moderate to me. His invasion of a sovereign nation (when we already had Iraq basically on its knees...we were bombing daily in the no-fly zone, and had sanctioned the hell out of it anyway..plus already had the inspectors looking for WMD) is so over the top that I cannot see how one can begin to call it moderate. Plus he filled his cabinet with wackos like Ashcroft (who will hopefully get the heave-ho). I could go on, but why?

Jay, what did you think about the election? You always say thought- provoking things, and I appreciate your perspective. Do you really believe the folks in red America have it figured out? I personally feel that they (yes gross generalization!) are behaving out of fear and denial. What say ye?

-- Anonymous, November 04, 2004

Sheepish, I can only say that all factors combined in this election to provide President Bush with leads in both popular and electoral votes without the need of the SCOTUS to address challenges from the democratic party. Each region of our nation presented their position and was proportionally represented as our founding fathers intended. The fact that the President recieved the popular vote also indcates that the left at this time has contributed to the support of his administration also. I find the state level and Congressional results to have been the most interesting. Its not neccesarily a red or blue issue, just a majority of people nationwide who have made their choice known.


Who am I really? I am a 43 year old retiree of the defense engineering contractor sector who while living comfortably and simply from the proceeds of my career , now has an abundance of free time to pursue my hobby studies which include sociology, political science and environmental mutations in addition to my technological, agronomic , vermiculture interests and other nerdish pursuits. I am also a satisfied voter.

EM, Yes I believe that pollution tolerent and genetically engineered for fast growth trees are a good thing because mankind in general is as a virus and these are as antivirals for the environment to allow it to mutate to better accomodate mankind while maintaining its viability. I

Now that the elections are over we will all continue following the directions of our chosen paths. For me that means today I must research my investments to get the best benifit of this post election stimulated market and then I must construct another solar pasteurization chamber and finish the robocow manure synthesizer and digester unit for my worm ranch. Sometime today I hope to also take toxin readings on the vermireclamation project I have in control test. Most of all, I intend to use the next 3 years to best pursue my personal interests and agendas until it is time to once again contribute my part to attempting to seat the administration I find best geared to my preferences.

-- Anonymous, November 05, 2004

Thanks, Jay, for your self description. You are a very knowledgable person...and quite ambitious what with all that you're involved with. I must say that those words "environmental mutation" scare me a little, though :-)!

The last sentence of your response to EM seems to describe you also. You said, "...until it is time to once again contribute my part to attempting to seat the administration I find best geared to my preferences." Are you saying that as long the government works out and benefits you, you're happy and to hell with everyone else and how the government affects them??

-- Anonymous, November 05, 2004

Well, Jay's position is understandable in a way. (Please note that I said "understandable" not agreeable to my principles.) He doesn't have children, I don't believe. It would be fairly easy, I think, to not give a good god damn what happens after you are taken care of and after you are gone, if you don't leave anyone behind that you care for. Not all of us are able to work toward a higher ideal when there is nothing in it for us. Sad, but true.

-- Anonymous, November 05, 2004

Marcia, We all cocern ourselves with what is best for our own first. I dont say "to hell with the rest" only that they are entitled to my cast offs after I have provided for mine.

Polly , I have never spoken of my children as their mother and I never actually formed a conventional family. We chose to continue pursuing our personal plans and provide for our daughter as individuals. She joined the military in 1983 and I pursued my career as a defense contractor. Our daughter followed in her mothers boot prints into the military as a career and is currently deployed in Iraq after volunteering for combat. When she told us of her choice to volunteer for deployment, we congratulated her and purchased her the top of the line body armor.

-- Anonymous, November 05, 2004

Well now... I did have a nice pleasant response composed in my head to sheepish's original question. But the more I read the more pissed I got. I am so fucking sick of you all saying that people who don't have kids don't give a damn about this country. I expect as much from EM, but to see Polly say the same thing is really amazing.

I'm so mad I can't type straight. It's a beautiful fall day, I'm going to take a walk.

-- Anonymous, November 05, 2004

Sherri, I said it would be easy to understand not caring about what happens once you are gone if you didn't have children; I certainly did not say that people who don't have children don't care. You are a case in point, are you not?

Jay, I stand corrected. My child is so much a part of me that even the people who know me only briefly or casually are aware that she exists. It is difficult for me to realize that not all people are the same way with their children. I am glad that you had the foresight to purchase appropriate protective gear for your daughter. And I am appalled that this government sends our children into combat without said gear. Josh's parents could care less, so we are attempting to outfit him, as he is being deployed two days before Christmas.

I am still sick at heart of the thought of four more years of this sort of political climate. The only bright star I can see is that maybe people will finally get their heads out of the sand and see him and his cohorts for what they are and will have sense enough to elect a better man next time around. Assuming we have a next time. Assuming that our rights are not eroded to the point that our elections are no more than the puppet elections held 'round the world in other nations led by despotic governments. Assuming that there is still a United States by then.

-- Anonymous, November 05, 2004

wow, guess our nerves are frayed. Let's not fight here, ok?

Sherri, I didn't say that you don't care about the country because you don't have kids, and neither did Polly. I'm quite certain that isn't the case, because we have communicated with you too long to not have some idea of where your heart is. It does seem obvious that the people running the country dont give a rat's ass about the young people though, as long as it's not theirs. And they certainly dont give a damn about the soldiers, except as cannon fodder, that's for sure.

Speaking for myself only, that's why I was so shocked when you said you were not going to vote, but then you never really explained why. I just couldnt believe it. To me, voting is the bare minimum we can do to try to influence how the country is run. I've read many articles about not voting, about voting again for Nader, etc, and none of them trumped the (to me) obvious critical nature of this election, and the clear choice between the two.

When I originally posted (on the thread that is unfortunately now gone) my response to your saying you were not going to vote, I clearly remember being careful not to make any definitive statements alleging you cannot understand why those of us with kids are terrified of the neo-cons perpetual war plans. I know how hurtful it can be when others make assumptions about the 'unmarried' or 'childless' or whatever and I think its crap. Would you be so kind as to try to explain what your thoughts are on not voting, so we can clearly understand?

We love ya, Sherri, and please accept my apologies if I hurt you in any way, and don't be angry. purty please :(


-- Anonymous, November 05, 2004

Hey, I have don't have kids (nor the hope of any) and I care! Sometimes it's actually tough to not have kids!

-- Anonymous, November 05, 2004

Yeah, sheepish, that's what I was tryin to say in my awkward way! Anyone who doesn't fit in the nuclear family norm (even though it's not the norm!) often feels left out. Guess that will be gettin even worse since the cave people seem to be in power. You know the ones who don't believe in evolution because they've never evolved themselves? But that's ok, we'll manage somehow, if we stick together.

I think. I hope. I dream. I have to keep telling myself everything happens just as it should....everything happens just as it should......everything happens just as it should

sheepish, that UCC commercial is great.......I have been hearing of other such groups becoming more active also, of Christians like you whose values actually reflect those of Jesus (radical thought!:) May you all prosper, for the sake of us all, and the planet we are meant to nurture.

-- Anonymous, November 06, 2004

Yeah, we're gonna kick those tables over in the "temple" that's for sure (insert Howard Dean-type yell here). We're gonna kick some ass! (oops, not very peace-loving sounding, eh?). UCC has been pretty much Peace and Justice motivated for several hundred years (my church is Congregationalist based) and we will stand up again. Weird being traditional "mainline" Protestant and being in the minority! Oh, well, being a liberal, oops, I mean *Progressive* puts me in the minority politically, too...but not by much. We are not going to let these folks claim the moral high ground. I'm not, anyway. I'm sick of the hypocrisy. Well, I really didn't mean to make this a commercial...Glad to hear that other churches are, too. There is hope.

Anyway. Maybe the fact that all us sleepyheads are waking up can be some comfort for you, Earthmama.

Gotta go clean the barn (sooo much wet bedding). Nothing like shoveling a few tons of shit to make me feel like I'm doing something worthwhile...

-- Anonymous, November 06, 2004

Yeah, at least the crap you're shoveling today will do some good; unlike all the crap we've been shoveling through the past year. Or so.

Sometimes I just get so tired and frustrated and filled with despair for the future that I wonder why the heck I even try. Thank heavens it usually doesn't last long.

-- Anonymous, November 06, 2004

sheepish, here's link to a page with many references to such groups:


Does my heart good indeed!

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2004

Looks like a *very* good link, Earthmama. Thanks! I'm off to church now, but I'll read it later today.

(As a side note, my ram knocked over a 12-foot gate on top of me yesterday and pinned me. How nice. You can imagine I'm a little sore. Thereafter, I did get much frustration out by chasing him around the paddock, screaming, and throwing rocks at him (not effective!). But it was good therapy for me!!! I'm surprised my neighbors didn't call the goon squad. (For the rest of you, don't try this at home!!!).

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2004

Note to self: Buy sheep, stockpile rocks.

Hey, I'm all for whatever will get rid of some of this frustration. I'm just afraid the mad/depressed scale will tip to the depressed side. I want to DO something, damnit; I just don't know what TO do.

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2004

We've been having lots of 'moving to canada' conversations.....very difficult to stay here; I'm so ashamed of being american.......but then why should we leave our country to the nincompoops? Hard to get into canada now, but bren was born there and never renounced citizenship.And...harhar.....we could go there and get married and then I could get in as spouse! nanner nanner! :) Ottowa area wants new people in a bad way.

sigh.......but we probably won't go; depends on how bad it starts to get here and when. We just moved, after all, and have a business, but I dont see how the economy CAN'T go in the toilet, but who knows, miracles do happen. There is a great article on Slate about moving to Canada, some pretty funny stuff too, loaded with interesting links:

moving to canada?

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2004

Once again, more good links! O Canada! Hey the U.S. used to be that unstressed a long while ago (but in my lifetime). Looks pretty good these days, eh? thanks.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2004

An interesting website for your perusal:


Rather than red/blue; it shows the color of the state by popular vote. Lots and lots of purple states out there; in fact almost all of them. Clear mandate, my ass. (I have got to get over being mad.)

I went to the Minnasota Public Radio site to watch the election results. Washington DC was over 90% for Kerry; there was no other state, not even Utah, that the vote was that slanted.

No plans to head for Canada here, although nurses are one of the occupations that they are accepting immigration applications for. I wonder, do all members of the family have to be accepted, or can the one member that is accepted take along all the others? Couldn't think of leaving Pop behind.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2004

Thanks,Polly; I feel better already. But I still say that with all the unbelievable crap these people have done to our country since they walked into Washington, it just should not have been even close. Not even if John Kerry wasnt that magnificent a candidate.....my god,how the hell could that many people vote for bush and all he stands for?? I just am not convinced they didnt cheat, and cheat big time. And why not? They lied virtually every time they opened their mouths? And people think they have integrity? It's just impossible to believe.

I think canada's main immigration objective is ensuring a whole lot of folks dont go up there and end up on the dole or weighing heavily on their health care system. So age is one thing that goes against you, but I think it can be overcome if one has enough moolah in the bank so they dont have to worry about that, but I dont know all the details. they have a point system on their official site I think.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2004

Hmm. Couple of things. I looked at the purple map Polly. It does look better. Plus I looked at the county by county map at the same site. I thought it was kind of pretty! I actually was glad to see so many spots of blue throughout the nation. At least there *were* some. However, I find it interesting to see that all the blue areas are lined up along the waterways or coasts. Do you think the reason the Bushies won't sign the Kyoto treaty is so they can melt the polar ice cap and flood out the Dems?!!!! (ha ha, but wait until we start having water problems. Oh, but why wait? That's right, we already are).

Okay, I know, but speaking of conspiracy theories, I haven't read too much about the electronic vote/Diebold/Katharine Harris connection stuff lately. Speaking of great ways to perpetuate fraud, I would like to see anything current. Got links?

-- Anonymous, November 09, 2004

btw, we *still* don't know who our governor will be! Talk about a close race.

-- Anonymous, November 09, 2004

The best place I'm aware of to follow/help with the voter fraud issues is at BLACKBOXVOTING.ORG.

Bev Harris has been, as far as I know, the hardest-working activist in this arena, and she has just filed the largest Freedom of Information suit in history, pertaining to this election. I'm really surprised the Rovians haven't offed her yet. And in other happy news, I just discovered Cynthia McKinney was re-elected! Rove's machine got her replaced last time, with their usual dispicable tricks, but she's unbelievably gutsy and outspoken and the people voted her back in, in the south yet!

-- Anonymous, November 09, 2004

Please consider signing the petition; these people have to be stopped! I've ordered a lawn sign!:0) -----------------------------------

impeach bush

Dear VoteToImpeach / ImpeachBush.org Members,

President Bush can run, but he cannot hide from the Constitution of the United States. The election does not pardon the President for past, or future "high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

Impeachment is not a partisan political issue. The House of Representatives, possessed of the "sole power of impeachment," is required to consider a bill of impeachment on the facts even if every Member were of the same party, or political persuasion, as the President. The seven specific provisions of the Constitution setting forth the powers and duties of the Congress in considering impeachment intend that any President or other civil officer of the United States who has committed a high Crime or Misdemeanor "...shall be removed from Office."

The power of impeachment assures the people against criminal acts and despotic ambitions by government officials.

We, the People have the power to require the House of Representatives to do its duty and act on a bill of impeachment after full investigation and consideration. If it fails to do so those House members who failed to perform this Constitutional duty can and should be voted from office. Remember that President Nixon resigned under threat of impeachment for Watergate less than two years after his landslide reelection in 1972.

Impeachment is Imperative

For the American people who support and defend the Constitution of the United States, who want to prevent further crimes by a lawless administration, who believe we can redeem our country in the eyes of those we have assaulted and those who have witnessed this brutality and who dare to demand of future government leadership, NEVER AGAIN, Impeachment is Imperative. A decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that we Americans should declare the causes which impel us to impeach.

President George W. Bush chose to wage a war of aggression against Iraq, which had not attacked the United States and presented no imminent threat to our people, or legitimate interests. A small cabal, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, Feith, Libby and Rove wrested decision making processes from established institutions of government to reinforce President Bush’s desire to seize Iraq, defying international institutions, the opinions of humankind and the rule of law to commence a disastrous criminal military adventure.

A Campaign of Deceit and False Propaganda

War of aggression is the first offense listed in the Nuremberg Charter as a Crime against Peace. The Nuremberg Tribunal after hearing evidence of Nazi crimes in World War II convicted the leaders of waging wars of aggression, which it called "the supreme international crime."

At Nuremberg, the Chief U.S. Prosecutor, Robert H. Jackson, promised posterity that in the future all nations, including our own, would be held accountable for such crimes.

President Bush and key administration officials engaged in a lengthy campaign of deceit, concealment and false propaganda to create support for, and acceptance of, its war of aggression by claiming Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction, harbored terrorists, had close ties with and supported Al Qaeda and intended to attack the U.S., U.S. citizens and U.S. interests. A free society, democratic institutions and constitutional government cannot survive such deceit by its own government.

The U.S. has made civilians and civilian facilities its direct object of attack. It has pursued assassination and summary executions as official policy. President Bush boasted of summary executions in his State of the Union message in 2003. Excessive and indiscriminate force and illegal weapons have been used. Many thousands of Iraqi citizens, whole families, women, children, elderly Iraqis have been killed as a result.

U.S. military casualties exceed 10,000 including more than 1,100 deaths with many additional thousands returned to the United States for physical and mental illnesses.

The U.S. has employed torture, including torture to death, rape and sexual assault and humiliation, as approved and ordered policy from Afghanistan and Guantanamo to Iraq, inflicted on thousands of prisoners, many, if not most, without any evidence of wrongful conduct. An admitted 37 human beings have been murdered while being held in captivity by the United States under these conditions. We know not how many more. All the mounting evidence makes clear that this program of torture and death is not aberrational conduct of rogue or undisciplined soldiers but is rather the policy adopted at the highest levels of the Bush/Rumsfeld chain of command. All this in violation of the Geneva Conventions, the International Convention Against Torture, the laws of all nations and common human decency.

Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution of the United States provides: The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, Shall Be Removed From Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors

More than 100,000 Dead Based on a Lie

We learn from the prominent medical journal Lancet of the report by researchers at John Hopkins University, Columbia University and the Al-Mustansiriya University in Baghdad that the U.S. war of aggression against Iraq and military occupation has cost "at least" 100,000 Iraqi lives already must civilian, women and children. Already President Bush has launched a massive aerial and ground assault on Falluja which may kill thousands of defenseless civilians.

Haiti, where President Bush forced the elected President Jean Bertrand Aristide from office, is in chaos with many thousands killed by widespread daily violence committed by U.S. supported paramilitaries against Aristide supporters.

Nearly 500,000 have voted to impeach. Help us increase that number into millions the Congress cannot ignore.

Every American should choose whether to vote for impeachment entirely on the facts, straight up, or down, without political, or partisan fear, or favor. We owe this to the country, its future, the Constitution and our common heritage. Impeachment is Required Now.

Impeachment now is the only way we, the American people, can promise ourselves and the world that we will not tolerate crimes against peace and humanity by our government. Knowing what we know, to wait longer is to condone what has been done and risk more.


Ramsey Clark

-- Anonymous, November 10, 2004

"President Cheney". Has a nice ring to it , don't you think? Even if an impeachment proceeding is started and fast tracked and succeeds , we still have our leadership in place. Look at presidential impeachment historically. Not a very good track record. Look at how California screwed up on the recall that got them Ahhhhnold. Doubtfull they would be much real help in an orchestrated political action on a tight deadline.

Of course the events of the last week have been entertaining, especially the proponents of a California / WA secession to establish Ecotopia. Personally I'm still waiting to see the promised border stampede in action. Ive even done some research on available acreages in Canada that I might broker to some democratic emmigrants here locally on the idea that if they already own property in Canada, the immigration process and acquirement of Canadian citizenship might be expedited. Only draw back is if I connect my friend in Canada with a buyer, my cut from him would be paid in Canadian funds that would need to be exchanged.

Do as we always do, concentrate now on efforts to get more Congressional candidates seated who lean toward your values while you select a more viable candidate for 2008. Time flies especially when your imersed in constructive efforts that actually posess potential for success. Its only 4 years. We survived eight years of Clinton and 12 years of Reagan/Bush before that. We will survive this also.

The results of the past election do not highlight the strength of the Republican Party as it does the increasing weakness of the Democratic Party to function as a viable part of our democratically influenced republic that places more value on our individual states rather than the nation as a whole.

If you have a desire to change our nations alignment, change the demography of the individual states, dont try to just remove the leadership or run to another country.

Some of us conservatives are already discussing ideas to make domestic immigration to some of the more liberal states more appealing to conservatives. Of course establishing this appealing environment will first require establishing viable conservative political influence to bring local statutes more to center. A demographic change in those states will progress in that direction.

On the flip side of our political coin, why cant the democratically leaning people contemplating emmigration to Canada instead internally emmigrate to the heartland and achieve the same toward their political polarization.

Democrats traditionally are percieved as the help of the little guy and the disadvantaged, yet areas in Kansas that have been offering free homestead property and no interest loans for people to move to their areas and re-establish the local economy, went republican this election. Why didnt more democrats take advantage of those programs?

Maybe our political poles are once again reversing as they did during the time since Mr. Lincoln. Only time will tell. For now though we all have the ability to choose our means of effectively contributing to aligning our nation in the direction we prefer by the make up of the congressional body, altering state demographics or both. Running away or ineffectual litigation are not the best answer.

-- Anonymous, November 10, 2004

Ya'll are too funny.

Wildman (grining big time)

-- Anonymous, November 10, 2004

Wow, what a long post. People getting very upset, unlike me, who's only getting purple with rage :)

Hey, EM, it's true that there is some good info on voting fraud at blackboxvoting.org but have you tried to go there yesterday or today? They are getting so many hits that they've used up their bandwidth, and are down for the short term.

I just added a new post, with some info on where to find some very good info on all this stuff. Subject " * Don't give up quite yet "

Don't get angry; get even! Let's all spread the word, because the major media "ain't gonna touch this", unless and until it gains more momentum.


-- Anonymous, November 10, 2004

Wildman, why???

I guess I can't move to Canada. Have to start smoking again probably.

-- Anonymous, November 10, 2004

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