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-- David Ortiz (, November 28, 2005.

was wonderign what everyone thinks of the Book of revelation, and what it pertains to? Is it about the end of the world? Is it about Jesus's second coming? or is it merly about the war fo the Jews, and the destruction of Jerusalem? What do you think is described in this book? Lets discuss it, shall we?

Asked by ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM) on September 11, 2004.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), September 18, 2004


Revelation 1

1. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2. Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), September 20, 2004.

The Book of Revelations was probably written by John of Patmos during the 14th year (A.D. 95) of rule by Domitian (A.D. 81-96). I don't know for sure what John was talking about. Perhaps it dealt with the fall of his oppressors or the End Times.


-- rod (, September 20, 2004.

"to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass"

-- Kevin Walker (, September 20, 2004.

Not relaly an answer Kevin....

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), September 20, 2004.

Revelation was written as a source of encouragement and hope for a people living under intense, violent persecution.

-- Paul M. (, September 20, 2004.

I dunno, but can you imagine writing that whole thing by hand without a ballpoint pen or typewriter? Wowsers!!

-- Max Darity (, September 20, 2004.


You asked the question: "What do you think is described in this book?"

The Scripture I quoted "is" an answer to your question. So, how can you say "Not relaly an answer Kevin..."???

-- Kevin Walker (, September 20, 2004.

Kevin, can yo elaborate??

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), September 20, 2004.


most of the Book of Apocalypse bears a completely uncanny resemblance to the Christian persecution under the Romans. the persecution has been and gone - and Christianity perservered despite the best [worst] efforts of Nero, Domitian et al. of course, the looney-bins interpret the Book otherwise -- so just don't get Faith started on this one ;-))

-- Ian (, September 20, 2004.

How about.....

The End Times for the Oppressors.

I'm still thinking it to be an isolated event in John Patmos' time. I have heard and seen some great t.v. about the "Rature", though.


-- rod (, September 20, 2004.

It doesnt really describe what you think it means....I knwo the stndard Chruch of chrizt techugn is that it was of the war withhe Jews, or the persecution under Nero. But I do like ot free myself form assumptions.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), September 20, 2004.

Zarove, did you read the discussion at the Catholic forum on Rvelation?

Here is a great one. I just gave my input today. I liked Joey's explanations. They tend to be a more historically based.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (, September 21, 2004.

Here, Zarove are John Gecick's and Joey's (Joseph) contributions on the subjec from the same thread.

Jmj You are right, Gordon, that identifying "the beast" as Nero is not a fixed Catholic teaching. It has only been offered as a plausible idea that has been accepted by many Christians (not just Catholics).

We should start with the fact that the early Church suffered greatly under the famous Nero Caesar himself (and his seeming "reincarnations" in the form of other persecuting emperors) and the fact that Revelation speaks of the sufferings of Christians, who are being given hope to endure them.

Since Revelation 13:18 speaks of a person as having the number 666, many people have offered guesses as to who this might represent. They have come up with different possibilities by using different languages and the "values" of the letters of the alphabets (e.g., Latin letters equating to Roman numerals).

I'll continue now with quote [annotated by me] from a commentator named Robert N. Cramer, who helps us see why Nero is believed by some people to be linked to 666:

"The Hebrew transliteration (without vowels) [-- Nrwn Qsr --] of Nero's [name in Greek], Neron Caesar [is "Nrwn Qsr". This] adds up to 666 [as follows:] "N = 50 ([numerical value of the Hebrew letter/number] nun) r = 200 (resh) w = 6 (waw) n = 50 (nun) Q = 100 (kaph) s = 60 (samech) r = 200 (resh)

"The significance of the number 666 was obviously understood by the original Christian communities from which and to which the Revelation was sent. Bratcher and Hatton (A Handbook on the Revelation to John, New York: United Bible Societies [not Catholic], 1993, pages 204-205) provide a good summary of current conclusions:

"'There are many interpretations of the name represented by the number 666. The most widely accepted one is that it stands for the Roman Emperor Nero. Written in Hebrew letters, the numerical value of the letters of the ... name "Neron Caesar" adds up to 666. Some commentators are of the opinion that no one specific person was in the writer's mind, but that by 666 the writer meant total imperfection. Number six is one short of the perfect seven, and three indicates completeness, so the imperfect number six given three times symbolizes "complete imperfection." But the way in which the writer states the matter makes it quite probable that he had some historical person in mind ... As the RSV (Revised Standard Version) footnote shows, one Greek manuscript and a few ancient versions have 616, but 666 is the better attested text.' [And this fits with the fact that the Latin name of the emperor (Nero Caesar) has one less "n" than the Greek -- losing a "nun" value of 50 from the 666.]

"It might be worth noting that though Revelation was written in Greek, the author was very familiar with the the commerce, economy, and geography of Jerusalem and the surrounding region. Werner Georg Kummel (Introduction to the New Testament, Revised Edition, translated by Howard Clark Kee, Nashville: Abingdon Press, 1975, page 465) quotes J. Schmid, who wrote: 'The author [of Revelation] thought in Hebrew but wrote in Greek.'"

St. James, pray for us. God bless you. John

-- (, January 12, 2002.

I'd like to give some insight, but please excuse me if I have any typing errors as I am typing this fast and not proof reading it as I should. To answer some questions about "Nero" being the beast and also the "mark" he used, yes, there is some written history and proof of all this. You can find some interesting articles about this. Metophorically speaking, mark on the head or hand, just as christians are marked with a seal of promise (Not literal), in any case, mark of the beast could mean the same as "seal of promise" does. What I mean is, the giving worship and allegence to Nero is with the mind (head) and works(hand). Now this, of coarse, is only figurative. I'd prefer the historical view which was the money used at the time. No once could buy or sell unless he had the mark (currency) of the beast. This idea does cause some problems. Does this mean the Christian didn't use money? Yes, they did, but it was not Roman money, thus it was not accepted. Further, most christians were marked as slaves; not Christias only, but gentiles as well. Nero had money with his picture, and of coarse, the name "Neron Qasar" means "God". Nero had a statue made in his image and ordered Titus (I believe that was his name) to install the image in the temple. If you did not worship it, you were killed. THIS HAPPENED! He was the one that declared himself to be god and exalted himself above all that is called god. Even some of the members of his councel hated him. He burned the entire city of Rome and used the Christians as a scape goat. Rome dominated the entire region and attempted to control the entire market. IF anyone didn't have the currency of Rome, you could not buy or sell. The third view point of this is that there were two marks given; one for slaves and one for free. In a nut shell, Nero made life extremely hard. In fact, the amount of time that Nero started the "Abomination of Deselation" until the time of his suicide was 1,250 days. His suidice took place in 68 A.D. He was the fith Emperor and was probably the one responsible for the death of Paul and Peter. I'm not quite sure of that, but I believe this to be correct. In any case, Nero is certainly the beast. The seven heads (seven hills) are the seven Roman Kings. The eigth King (Domitian) spoken of in Revelation was not part of the family of Cearsars. The death of Nero ended the Claudian reign. After Nero, Vespasian was the sixth Emperor (Sixth head of the Beast) and his reign was short (70 - 79 AD) He did not cause as much pain as Nero so not much is said of him. Titus was the seventh King of Rome (70- 79 AD) and his reign was short. The angel tells John the the seventh will come but must reign for a short while. After that, he will go to his destruction. The angel also told John of an eigth king. He is the one that exercized the authority of the first beast (Nero). The second beast was Domitian (81-96 AD). He did more harm than Nero. Nero persecution was more local. Domitian took it a step further and expanded outwards to Italy and so on. Everone was suprized at this because he was thought to be Nero back from the dead. That's probably why the angel told John about a vision of one of the heads of the beast had be slain but healed. He was the one that was invisiioned as "coming up out of the bottomless pit" Therefore, the seven heads were seven Roman Emperors: Augustus, Tiberuis, Caligula, Claudius, Nero, Vespasian, and Titus. Domitian, the eigth, was not part of the Ceasarian family, but was counted as part of the seven. Of Domitatian, John writes "he is the one what was, and is not, and that is to return". Any questions? Please feel free to email me. I'd say this is far that simple luck or chance. There is no way for Revelation not to speak of Rome, because it was Rome that caused problems. Read the part about the man child that the dragon tried to kill upon birth. Who was in control of things at the time. The mystery of God is completed with the establishment of the Church age. The old testiment age is done and set aside. We now live in God's new Kingdom. Remeber, the Kingdome doesn't come in such a way that one says, "Look! There is is" For the Kingdom of God is within you". The sharing of God's Spirit was the Kingdom he promised. Not a literal earthly temply. But a temple to rest his Soul. As he says "Where shall my Soul find a resting place?" Has not my hands made these thing?" Think about it guys.


-- Joseph Rehby (, May 09, 2002.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (, September 21, 2004.

Here is Joseph's (Joey's) answer about the 10 kings of Revelation from the same thread.

Hello everyone. It's me, Joseph again. Gosh! A long time has it been since I've last posted a comment on the subject of "Nero". And I must say, the imput I've received and given may or may not have changed. I'll leave this up for you all to decide. But I must say I'm a bit disturbed by the debating that takes place here, and I certainly never tried to cause such a thing. However, I am happy to some extent that some have come to study Revelations more closely, as if it were through the eyes of the original readers. So, to make this short and easy. Here are more details on the subject of "Nero" and so on.

It's very difficult to distinguish between the two "Beasts". For the past several years, I've always believed that Nero was the first and Domitian to be the second. It is possible that Damitian could be the first and Trajan the second. These details are not important right now. What is important, and what's also taken many months of study, are the 10 horns / kings from the east. And here is my judgement on this matter.

The 10 horns / kings were the Kings which were responsible for the 10 great Christian persecutions between an estimated time fram of 100 AD. to 324 AD. These kings were "from the east". That is, the eastern empire of Rome. During the Barbarian wars and crusades, Rome was split into three regions, primarily east and west. The capital of Rome was moved to the Eastern side of Rome because the Western side was won over by the Barbarian wars. Rome's tax surplus was reduced so dramatically that their economy could no longer afford a strong military. Thus, the Roman Empire expanded itself so far beyond their ability to maintain itself. That, plus the multiple plagues and deseases, along with the distruction of Pompeii via volcano, weakened the Roman Empire. Trajan was very crude and issued a Nation wide edict to have all Christians tortured and killed. Without getting into much detail, I challenge all to read the writings of Iraneus, Barnabas, Polycarp, and a few others. The most interesting are some passages of Iraneus.

Iraneus doesn't liberally attempt to interpret the exact meaning of "The number of the Beast", but he does say something which gives much proof to the early church mindset. (Note: Iraneus was a disciple of John who wrote Revelations) This he says: Let us first wait the dividing of the Kingdom into 10.......(Referring to Rome) and again in referrence to 666, Latinois also equals 666, for they indeed are the ones in charge now....also in reference to Rome.

Gosh, there is so much more. However, I would challenge everyone reading these posts to research this.

You should find that Christian persecution was given in much detail with some of the early church writings. There is NO WAY that Christians of today suffered the invented torture techniques brutally applied to the early Christians. This "war" against Christians ended in 324 AD when Constatine declared Christianity to be the official religion. There were surely some persecutions going on, but not to the same degree as 10 Roman Emperors did on up until Constatine, who abolished public Christian torture.

Going back to a posted comment regarding the "1000 years", I belieave it may be possible that this 1000 years of peice was for the church; not the world. Keep in mind that for nearly the first 250 years, give or take a few, of church existance, there were millions tortured and killed with techniques you and I couldn't even handle....I WILL NOT get into those techniques. Let's just say that there were not quick deaths...they were all slow, agonizing, and painful! In any case, the mulitiple deaths almost wiped Christians off the face of the earth. Thus Christ says, "For the sake of the elect, those days would be numbered"....and again, "If those days had not been cut SHORT, no one would have survived"!

It's quite clear that nearly 250 years of Christian Torture almost exterminated Christianity. This was the time of testing which Christ warned the seven chruches about, where in he says, "This calls for the patient endurance on the part of the saints". Afterwards, the Church was "refined by fire" (fire meaning persecution to burn out impurities) and proven faithful and genuine. Now that the product (Church) had been proven and thoroughly cleansed, it's now ready for a worldwide delivery.

And what I'm about to say should keep a few protestants in check. If it were NOT for the Romans, Christianity would not have survived as long as it has. Why do I say this? Because the Empire which once tried to destroy Christianity was responsible for it's spread throughout the rest of the world as we see it today. Granted there may have been corruptions which took place, just as there will always be, yet truth will always abound.

It wasn't until the 13th century (nearly 1000 years after the last major Christian persecution around 312 AD) that the Spanish Inquisition took place, leading to many more tortures. This COULD be the time where Satan is released from the pit to go out and decieve the Nations again.

This may be the time we are now living in. Yet, if we were to take some writings of Barnabas serious, we still have around a 1000 years to go before mankind no longer exists. I'll talk about that later.

But for now, this should suffice. Hope all enjoys reading this. See you.


-- Joe Rehby (, September 20, 2004

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (, September 21, 2004.

Here is more Joseph's thoughts on the 10 kings from thread. He tries to make a historical connection. If he is correct, then, this would make revelation's final revision by the beginning og the 4th century (around 313 AD).

Here you go Steve....hope you read it all.... Joe

Constantine believed that the Church and the State should be as close as possible. From 312-320 Constantine was tolerant of paganism, keeping pagan gods on coins and retaining his pagan high priest title "Pontifex Maximus" in order to maintain popularity with his subjects, possibly indicating that he never understood the theology of Christianity. From 320-330 he began to attack paganism through the government but in many cases persuaded people to follow the laws by combining pagan worship with Christianity. He made December 25th, the birthday of the pagan Unconquered Sun god, the official holiday it is now--the birthday of Jesus. It is likely that he also instituted celebrating Easter and Lent based on pagan holidays. From 330-337 Constantine stepped up his destruction of paganism, and during this time his mother, Helen, made a pilgrimage to Jerusalem and began excavations to recover artifacts in the city. This popularized the tradition of pilgrimages in Christianity. Whether or not his conversion was "genuine," Constantine's reign was extremely important to the Christian church. After his vision, he immediately declared Christianity legal in the Edict of Milan. He completely abandoned paganism and put his full force of favor towards advancing the cause of the Church of Christ. He provided Christianizing legislation on such matters as the observance of Sunday, the confiscation of the temple treasures, and the exemption of some clergy from taxes. He funded Christian leaders and the construction of churches, some of which he dedicated to his mother. Most Christian leaders greatly admired Constantine for the works he did for the church and Christian cause.

STEVE: YOU ARE wasn’t Constatine, rather it was THEODOSIUS who declared Christianity the official religion of Rome in 394: Emperor Theodosius declares Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. In either case, the time frame is perfect and still supports the fact that Christians suffered far more during the first three centuries than any other time in history. Here is more proof for you to read.

The Ten Persecutions of the Early Christians Persecutions Raised by the Romans Against the Christian Church Christians have been persecuted ever since the death of Jesus Christ. The persecutions raised by the Romans against the Christian Church can be divided into ten main ones, which began during the reign of the following emperors: 1. Nero (Roman emperor AD 54–68), persecution stirred up in AD 64. In this persecution was the Apostle Paul killed and the apostle Peter crucified in Rome. This first persecution ceased under Vespasian (reigned AD 69–79). 2. Domitian (Roman emperor AD 81–96). John, the apostle and evangelist was exiled to Patmos during this persecution. After the death of Domitian, John was released and came to Ephesus in AD 97, where he wrote his Gospel and where he lived until the time of Trajan. 3. Trajan (Roman emperor AD 98–117). Ignatius, the bishop of Antioch suffered in this persecution. 4. Marcus Aurelius, his other name being Antoninus Verus (Roman emperor AD 161–180). Polycarp, the bishop of Smyrna, and the Christian martyrs of Lyons and Vienne, two cities in France, were martyred in this persecution. 5. Septimius Severus (Roman emperor AD 193–211). This persecution extended to northern Africa, which was a Roman province. 6. Maximinus, Gaius Julius Verus (Roman emperor AD 235– 238). 7. Decius (Roman emperor AD 249–251). In this persecution was Fabian martyred; Cyprian, bishop of Carthage, forced into exile; and Origen imprisoned and tortured. 8. Valerian (Roman emperor AD 253– 260). 9. Aurelian (Roman emperor AD 270–275). 10. Diocletian (Gaius Aurelius Valerius Diocletianus, reigned AD 284–305) and Maximian (reigned AD 285–305) governed as emperors together. Diocletian began his furious persecution against the Christians in 303. The emperor ordered the doors of the Christian church at Nicomedia, the capital, to be barred, and then burnt the edifice with 600 Christians within. Many edicts were issued by him against Christians. Churches were demolished, Christian books were seized and burnt, Christians were persecuted, imprisoned, tortured and killed. The persecution brought a considerable number of martyrs, and it continued until 313, when Emperor Constantine set Christians free and proclaimed religious freedom. The best account of these ten persecutions is the Church History of Eusebius of Caesarea. Eusebius (c AD 260–340) was an eyewitness to many martyrdoms in Caesarea (an important city in Palestine) during the tenth persecution stirred up by Diocletian. After the persecution ended in 313, Eusebius became the bishop of Caesarea. Eusebius was one of the most voluminous writers of antiquity. His most important work is the Church History, which gives an account of the history of Christianity from the time of Jesus Christ to AD 324, the time of Emperor Constantine and the defeat of Licinius. This work is very valuable, as it refers to many prominent figures of the first three centuries and contains many original sources which would otherwise be unknown to us. The following pages contain those parts of this work which deal with the ten persecutions. Eusebius of Caesarea Church History

-- Joey (, September 21, 2004.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (, September 21, 2004.

Here is my opinion on the subject today.

Joey Rehby, I agreed on your opinion about Domitian being the beast, number 8, on the list you made 2 years ago. I had not read your article before. Amazing I had the same conclusions. I reached these in 1998. I was also looking for the case on Nero. I saw John Gecick's explanation for him being also the 666. It is a good one.

Though I am on the agreement that the 666 is Domitian, since Revelation (Apocalypsis) 17:9-11 mentions he is the 8th. Nero was the 5th.For Domitian I use K(aisaros) Domitsi(a)nos as a Hebrew person would write it: K(Kaf)=20, D(dalet)=4, o (waw)=6, m (mem)=40, i (yod) =10, t (thav)=400, s(samech)=60, i(yod)=10,o (waw)=6, S(samech) =60 to get at the number 666.

As for the 10 persecutions from revelation 17:12-14 , on the 10 kings, Well , this is a nice explanation. First time I see told from this perspective starting from Nero and ending with Diocletian.

Good job in offering an explanation I had not thought out before for that passage.

The Christian Yahwist

PS: I also believe Rvelation already passed.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (, September 21, 2004.

I used this Hebrew correspondence of letters to numbers.

Hebrew letters as numbers

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (, September 21, 2004.

contains events that occur in heaven and on earth, in the spiritual and physical realm, spanning across thousands of years, from John the Apostle unto the destruction of this present Earth.

-- Luke Juarez (, October 04, 2004.

Revelation 6:12-17 “…There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, ‘Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?’”

1) great earthquake 2) stars fall to earth 3) moon turns blood red 4) mountains and islands removed from place 5) sky recedes like a scroll 6) face of God revealed 7) wrath of God

Revelation 11:15-19 “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever." And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying: ‘We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign. The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great-- and for destroying those who destroy the earth.’ Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a great hailstorm.”

1) earthquake 2) lightning, rumblings, pearls of thunder 3) great hailstorm 4) wrath of God

Revelation 16:18-21 “Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since man has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. From the sky huge hailstones of about a hundred pounds each fell upon men. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible.

1) severe, unequaled earthquake 2) lightning, rumblings, pearls of thunder 3) mountains and islands removed from place 4) great hailstorm 5) wrath of God

Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the distress of those days 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'”

1) stars fall from heaven 2) son and moon darkened 3) heavenly bodies shaken

Isaiah 13:9-13 “See, the day of the LORD is coming -a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger- to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless. I will make man scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir. Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the LORD Almighty, in the day of his burning anger.”

1) stars show no light 2) sun and moon darkened 3) heavenly bodies shaken 4) earthquake 5) wrath of God

In the New Testament, “the day of the Lord” refers to the return and second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 34:2-4 “The LORD is angry with all nations; his wrath is upon all their armies. He will totally destroy them, he will give them over to slaughter. Their slain will be thrown out, their dead bodies will send up a stench; the mountains will be soaked with their blood. All the stars of the heavens will be dissolved and the sky rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree.”

1) stars fall 2) sky recedes like a scroll 3) wrath of God

-- Luke Juarez (, October 13, 2004.

This five passages all appear to be the same event. What does this mean??????

It means the book of Revelation is not written by chronological order...

-- Luke Juarez (, October 13, 2004.

How about these passages:

Mark 13:14-27 (KJV)
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Joel 2 10,31
10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.

Acts 2
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

-- Emily (", October 14, 2004.

They look to be speaking of the same thing Emily

-- Luke Juarez (, October 15, 2004.

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