I have never heard our Church waver in its tireless message of social justice, racial equality and religious tolerance. I was surprised, therefore, when at an interfaith discussion group a good friend from the ADL informed me that many Catholics are active in a growing movement called “white nationalism.” From the website he referred me to, it seems that these folk want the US to be 100% “Aryan,” and they favor something they cryptically call the “vertical expulsion” of all Jews. While denying the Holocaust, they hasten to add that if it did happen, the Jews deserved what they got. And from that site, it does appear that some Catholics do hold these views. They even have a special forum dedicated to “positive Christianity,” which asserts that Vatican II was a sinister Jewish plot, which they hope the next Pope will reverse, at which point the masses of Catholics will join them in establishing some sort of Fourth Reich.

Is it possible simultaneously to be a Catholic (or Christian), and a racist, anti-Semite, Holocaust denier or white separatist?

Thanks.

-- TFS (arbeitmachtfrei1488@yahoo.com), September 13, 2004

Answers

are you out of your mind? can ANYONE who calls himself a christian, let alone a catholic, possibly have a need to ask such a question?

-- jason (jas_r_22@hotmail.com), September 13, 2004.

Tbhe short answwr is : No". Jesus died for all ,ankind, not for whites only. Indeed, Jesus was Jewish.The faith is base don Judaism and the fist revelations to Abraham.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), September 13, 2004.

Thanks for your thoughts. It's interesting because some of these separatists have a different take on Judaism. They seem to despise Jews but at the same time envy them for their cohesion. They note, for example, that Israel is defined as a Jewish state, and that is with reference to descent (ethnicity), not religious observance (lots of atheistic Jews in Israel as in the US). Thus, if the Jews can have a Jewish state, they feel entitled to a ethnic "Aryan" or non- Jewish white state as well. I don't recall His Holiness questioning the ethnic particularism of Israel on His visit to Yad Vashem. As you say, Jesus died for all, but does Catholic doctine prohibit all ethnostates, or just non-Jewish ones?

-- TFS (arbeitmachtfrei1488@yahoo.com), September 13, 2004.

I dont think the Catolic Church is relaly interested in te poliitcac structures of the world, rather, it is interested in giving uthte Good News of Slavation and teahcign us not to sin. It has no official stand on Monarchy, Democracy, Republics, Aristorcacies, or ethnic states.

These thigns ar eoutside its perveiw

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), September 13, 2004.

Why go into so many arguments? Either you believe the Word of God or you don't:

Gálatas 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

It's clear as crystal.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), September 16, 2004.

TFS,

Thus, if the Jews can have a Jewish state, they feel entitled to a ethnic "Aryan" or non- Jewish white state as well.

The trouble is no Catholic would say that their faith is "Aryan". I bet if you asked people who claimed to be "Aryan", they would claim that Catholics aren't Aryan OR Christian, despite the fact that Catholics are the True, (and original) Christians. Being a Catholic means accepting everyone who believes in Christ regardless of race, color, politics, shoe size, etc., and even to accept those who don't as separated brethren. No one who is a Catholic would buy into any "Aryan" cr@p, IMO. I think your friend in the ADL needs a better education about Catholics. Activist Jews can be just as ignorant of the Catholic faith as anyone else, you know. If he has any questions about Catholics or our faith, you should invite him to post them here. He sure won't find support for anything "Aryan", I can tell you that.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), September 16, 2004.

“does Catholic doctine prohibit all ethnostates?” (TFS) Of course not. Just about every country in Europe and Asia owes its existence to the fact that borders were drawn around the territory occupied by a particular race.

Judaism is a religion, not a race. The Israeli law giving all Jews the right to migrate there is based on religion (even if an individual doesn’t practise his religion) not on race. Converts are welcome, as are the Black Jews of Ethiopia.

And you seem unaware that most of the Catholics in the world are “non- Aryan”.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), September 16, 2004.

Catholics and other Christians are sortonly not exclustionary, as they wish to get as many converts as possible. What you describe would be more against a belief system. But Catholics do not deny any group into their religion based on race. There are always those shall branch off.

Jews on the other hand, are not a religion as much as they are a people. As in conventional Judiasm, the Jewishness is passed down from the Mother, through the blood. If the Father is Jewish even, the baby is not usually made a Jew unless the Mother is. This is why you shall meet people that are "half Jewish" but never someone who is "half Catholic" or "half Christian." When you commit a crime in any country, Israel shall give you amensty, if you can show you are an actual Jew. That is, your Mother was a Jew and so on. They do not consider convert Jews to be real Jews.

Israel is a racist state. In order for Israel to be "the promised land" it must be promised for a sorton people Many of them do not consider Ethiopian Jews, actual ones either. But this is wrong of them for modern Jews do descend from the lost Hebrew Tribe, but Khazaria Even if some Hebrews migrated there, prior to it's conversion in the 8th Century.

-- (x@y.z), September 17, 2004.

This thread gives a little more information on the difference between Jews and Judaism.

-- (x@y.z), September 17, 2004.

I don't deny that the state of Israel has been racist in its policies toward Palestinians, but the concept of Israel itself is not racist. The attitude that converts and Blacks are not "real" Jews would only be held by a small minority of ultra-orthodox Jews. Not only does Israel freely accept Black Jews, virtually ALL of them have migrated to Israel in a program organized and paid for by the Israeli government, and they have full rights as Israeli citizens.

Israel will NOT give you sanctuary if you are a Jew and commit a serious crime in another country, if Israel has an extradition treaty with that country (as most do). Xyz, you are verging on anti- semitism which is against the rules of this forum.

Yes the supposed genetic descent of Jews from Jacob is tenuous and dubious, and affected by large scale conversion to Judaism of other races. That proves my point. Judaism is not a race, but a religion. Like any other religion, even those who actively seek converts, most people stay in the same religion their ancestors have had for generations or even centuries, or at least remain in that religious culture if they don't practice; so it is possible to talk of "a people" of that religion.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), September 18, 2004.

I really don't understand why some people "like or want" to be a racist ?? __ What's the purpose of this all , and why they become/became a racist ,'cause I really don't get it !! __ It doesn't matter which direction you follow , racism is stupids and it's a crime !!

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), September 20, 2004.

Racism is wrong, but its not crime, unless you want to outlaw peopels feelings and thoughts...

Actign in hatred to cause harm to a member of another race is a crime though, and rihtly so.Other than this, I agree Laurent, racism isnt relaly logical or practical.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), September 20, 2004.