Ok, rod, behave for now ;)

I will only address this quickly as I don't have much time.

Yes, other languages are allowed on this forum. We do have some forum regulars that know other languages, and they can help point out if something needs to be deleted. Faith01 also raised concerns about not being able to monitor what Elpidio is saying, and she fears he'll mislead people. Well, first of all, I find it very hard to mislead people if they don't understand the language you are writing in.

Secondly, for those that do understand your language, say spanish, I believe that one day a true believer that also speaks this language will pass by and stand up for the truth.

If the person is bilingual, try and post an English translation. Those that get caught cussing/saying obscene things in other languages will be banned automatically.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 28, 2004

Answers

Also,

Faith, English may be "official", but Spanish is still leading in 2nd. It is spoken around Texas, California, Chicago, New York, Florida, etc.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 28, 2004.

Thank you, David. All I ask for is reasoning in delicate issues such as these.

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 28, 2004.

I heard that there is actually no *official* language in the US. Additionally, the internet is not just limited to the US.

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), August 28, 2004.

Well.,

If this board is a free for all--for anyone to come and post their false gospel unbeknownst to us--then that is something that David can choose to operate.

Can you speak Spanish, Emily--so that you can rightly monitor what is being posted here? And if not--would you feel good about being responsible here?

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), August 28, 2004.

Faith, I do not know enough Spanish to be able to monitor whether people are posting false things. I can read/speak it but I am getting really rusty. I need more practice before I would be able to do such a task.

I figure that if Elpidio is allowed to post the same type of material in English then why not in Spanish? I do not agree with him on everything. But I don't agree with you all the time either. What are the limits that constitutes a "false gospel"?

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), August 28, 2004.

Here is the difference Emily,

In English., I can counter what Elpidio is saying. I can delete things that he says that are false--though I don't tend to do that. I simply refer him to the Bible.

Elpidio denies that Jesus is God--and he rejects the Holy Scriptures in favor of his prohecy and dreams.

But God warns us:

For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible. So be on your guard; I have told you everything. Mk. 13:22

To me--this is a warning that there is no new revelation or prophecy that we need to concern ourselves with--God has told us everything we need to know. And if a prophet should tell us anything that isn't found in the Scriptures--then it isn't from God. Yet Elpidio has so many things to say--that are not supported in Scripture., so many false prophecies and He most importantly--rejects Christ.

The Bible should be our measuring rod--but I cannot measure anything Elpidio is posting-- if I can't read it.

1 John 4:1-3

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

And in case Elpidio would be compelled to argue that he doesn't deny Jesus came in the flesh--it is important to note just what that means:

John 1:1-4, 14

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), August 28, 2004.

Well, Faith, there isn't a need for those spanish lessons. You have refuted Elpidio again, and again with your personal interpretations. It would, of course, be another debatable endeavor to determine whether you are in the "truth" or not. You haven't made any arguments for or against the language usage. You have made arguments against Elpidio's theology. You have also used this forum for your brand of theology and doctrine. I don't hear anyone calling for your dismissal or deletions, unless you are gonna get to do somemore Catholic bashing.

Actually, this may very well be a "free for all" forum, as long as people exhibit fair play and respectful posts. I'd kind like to her from our Jewish friends, as well as those of the non-Christian groups. Perhaps we could give them food for thought. Yikes! I almost forgot your little joke about not eating "junk food".

..................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 28, 2004.

Hola!

Wenn Deutscher meine Lieblingssprache waren, sollte ich Deutsches sprechen? Und schreiben? Ja, werde ich eher auf englisch schreiben. Aber, wie spass werde das sein?

¿Puedo escribir? no sin un traductor!!

Sure, I can read with little help from a translation engine.

Still, it's not good to pass over these concerns lightly.

Cheers,

Vincent, el linguista aficionado!

-- Buồn buồn phét phách (cho_vui@noemail.net), August 29, 2004.

For the non-aficionados, that last part means "when bored, make stuff up for fun." - Not literally, of course. Can't translate Vietnamese literally :P

-- Vincent (love@noemail.net), August 29, 2004.

rod--

You must have me confused with someone else. I never mentioned the term junk food. Sorry.

You are also making more of this than there is. I don't have a problem with other beliefs being here--I just wanted to be able to read and refute them. That is after all--what debate and discussion are all about.

Elpidio is not a fellow Christian--He denies our Lord. He's a nice enough guy.., and so are you. But God is clear about how we should behave with those who follow doctrines of devils.

2 John 1:7-11

Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

*************************************

Like I said rod--we use the Word of God to measure what others are saying and to know the right response.

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), August 29, 2004.

"Elpidio is not a fellow Christian--He denies our Lord. He's a nice enough guy.., and so are you. But God is clear about how we should behave with those who follow doctrines of devils. "

Your observations seem logical, but consider this little fact, Faith.

Elpidio hasn't been kicked out of the Catholic Forum, has he? But, you have.

So, try to figure out what is going on there.

Yes, I have you confused with someone else. I think it was the basic similarities in doctrines and sociology that causes identity issues. Sorry, for that one, Faith. Also, I'm not generally described as being a nice guy, until people actually get to know me. I'm like a tiny storm in our faculty meetings when people start with the illogical stuff and unfair plays. I've had principals, coordinators, and superintendants on my back. But, I did prevail for the right things. We our types get moving on the right things, we get sniped, sucker punched, mud slinged, and every little dirty deal that can be done. But, those things don't really matter when it's the big picture we are intrigued by.

Elpidio has his big picture, too. He has been kicked around the soccer field quite a many times. I'm sure that many of us have our stories, too. But, will we believe each of our "theories"? No, we weigh them and chew on them for awhile. We try to make sense of them. We, hopefully, then reflect on our own faith.

....................... ..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 29, 2004.

Du ist eine gut schreiben, Vincent. Ja! Herr Vincent.

I once had some German musicians visit my music classes. They spoke a miniscule amount of english; I spoke a fraction to their english in german. We managed to communicate with broken lingo, facial expressions, and hand motions. Once the music filled the air, we then spoke fluently without confusion.

..................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 29, 2004.

I think this topic is getting way too much airtime. We have language translaters on the internet, so we can get an idea of what anyone else is saying. I don't think that this problem will occur enough that it would be particularly burdensome. After all, as Christians we are to make things easier for others, not have others make things easier for us.

Just my 2 cents.

-- James (stinkcat_14@hotmail.com), August 29, 2004.

rod--you said:

Your observations seem logical, but consider this little fact, Faith.

Elpidio hasn't been kicked out of the Catholic Forum, has he? But, you have.

I know what is going on there rod..,

Elpidio is no problem to them.

I however--threaten to expose the lies.

Jesus said that we would be hated by the world for His namesake--and it certainly plays out in my life.

I consider it an honor--as they hated and rejected Jesus as well.

And I do consider the Catholic Church to be *of the world.*

The world loves them and they have indeed raised a sword on behalf of their religion.

But Jesus said that His Kingdom is not of this world otherwise His servants would fight. Clearly then--we are not to fight with the sword. All religions are guilty of this--

And I do think you are a nice guy--and at least you don't deny Jesus is God.

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), August 29, 2004.

"[A]t least...". Gee, thanks; therefore, you would declare me "saved"?

...............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 29, 2004.

I may have misunderstood something above in Faith's post. If I misunderstood, my apologies in advance for the following.

I don't think its fair to characterize Elpidio's statements or conclusions as "lies."

---Differences in understanding, perspective, or belief maybe, but not out right lies.

If I disagree with or don't believe what someone says, it doesn't necessarily follow they have lied. This can be applied to teachings coming from many different orientations. Opposing teachings and beliefs do not necessarily = lies.

-- Jim (furst@flash.net), August 29, 2004.

Actually Jim..,

The Bible tells us that if we do not preach the truth--as revealed in Scripture--we preach a different gospel and we are liars.

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

1 John 2:1-6

But actually--if you are refering to the post I made above yours-- then it wasn't actually Elpidio that I was refering to., though he certainly fits....just re-read the verse above to see why. Elpidio rejects Jesus and much of the Bible for that matter.

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), August 29, 2004.

Well--

I don't know rod., have you experienced rebirth?

Have you fell on your face in humble acknowledgement that Jesus is your Lord and Savior? Have you confessed that you are a hopelessly lost sinner--and have you asked Jesus into your heart to be Lord and Savior over your life? Have you experienced change?

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), August 29, 2004.

Faith,

I read the verse and see what you mean. You have supported it scripturally, and you are very good at that.

I still can't help feeling that the word "lie" as you see it from scripture, may have come to us over the years and translations as perhaps meaning something "somewhat" different than it originally did. Something just seems contextually wrong with characterising different interpretations as "lies."

When Elpidio posts to a thread, I do not find his conclusions to be deliberate attempts to mislead. Its like I can intuitively discern the difference between a differnt belief, and a "lie."

Its just that the word itself "lie" has an inflamitory aura about it that in some situations could lead to an off topic argument in itself rather than what ever was being discussed. (I think my current contribution here proves that---where is my stick insect?)

I don't know exactly how to put it, but it seems like there is a way to look at the word "lie" from a scriptural standpoint---scriptural lie??? versus a purposefully "deceptive" lie. I feel a difference here somehow, --- explaining it without hand gestures and facial expressions is just too tough for me. If you could see the mixed up expression on my face right now, you'ld know what I mean...

I think the Ebionites considered St. Paul to be "the man of the lie." I do know its been used within that context historically. I guess it just seems "archaic" to use it that way today.

-- Jim (furst@flash.net), August 29, 2004.

Thought I was in the "Stick Insect" thread when I was writing the above.

-- Jim (furst@flash.net), August 29, 2004.

Jim..,

I think that what God is revealing is that He is truth. His Word is truth.

Therefore--anything that denies His Word or His truth--would be a lie.

It stands to reason.

I do not think that Elpidio deliberately lies. Non-the-less.., what he preaches is still a lie., so doesn't that make him a liar? He says that Jesus is not God. That is a lie from God's standpoint--and mine.

I agree it is a subtle thing and hard to wrap our brains around--but it is clear in the Scriptures:

1 John 2:22-23

Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

But what I really had in mind was false doctrine in the Catholic Church. I myself would never accuse a Catholic person of being a liar- -because it does sound wrong--yet the Scripture is clear that if another gospel is preached--if what we preach is not the teachings of the original apostles--then it is a lie.

I think of things like the papacy--for example. If Matthew was not revealing Peter as the first pope--then that seat--the papal throne is false. That makes it a lie.

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), August 29, 2004.

Elpidio uses Scriptures to justify his faith.

Faith-

It is rather peculiar that your prerequisite for Salvation is different from Kevin's, David's, and the Catholic Church. I thought you were of the "Sola Fide" belief.

..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 29, 2004.

Faith-" I do not think that Elpidio deliberately lies. Non-the-less.., what he preaches is still a lie., so doesn't that make him a liar? He says that Jesus is not God. That is a lie from God's standpoint--and mine. "

Elpidio has quoted Scriptures to support his theology. How can that be called a "lie" when the Scriptures can be interpreted to Elpidio's belief? Well, then, each of us are liars if we cannot agree on faith. Kevin's "obedience" doctrines, David's "grace" doctrines, Your "invisible church" doctrines, and my "quasi-Catholic" doctrines are divergent of each others'. "Will the real truth please stand up?"

...................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 29, 2004.

Du ist eine gut schreiben, Vincent. Ja! Herr Vincent. I once had some German musicians visit my music classes. They spoke a miniscule amount of english; I spoke a fraction to their english in german. We managed to communicate with broken lingo, facial expressions, and hand motions. Once the music filled the air, we then spoke fluently without confusion

Vielen Danke! Herr rod. You're not as bad yourself :P

Reminds me, my fiance spoke little english and I spoke little japanese when we first met 8 years ago. I do like japanese music, though and there's little confusion when we sing together!! I wanted to meet her cousins who are pop idols over there, but haven't gotten the chance. Actually, I fancy myself quite the japanese singer :)

I, too, find music makes communication easier. Rhythm and melody moves like minds in lockstep fashion...maybe.

I think this issue of posting in english can be worked out without much fanfare. Consideration in the name of charity should be given to both sides. After all, it's not like Elpidio is known to use harsh language and if what he's posted in english can be accepted, then his Spanish shouldn't be any different. Also, it would be good opportunity to share language resources with faith01(I dunno I use generic stuff that's easy to find). That makes for better music, IMO :)

There seems to be a compulsion to refute everything that one doesn't hold to, as if undue time is spent defending one's beliefs or attacking others. I don't think that's necessary in a forum with such inherently diverse philosophies. Ideally, for me at least, this forum should be a good hangout for learning others' beliefs. However, conflicts are natural as a result of this diversity. Yet, there are also ways to tone things down to make dialogue acceptable to all.

Peace,

-- Vincent (love@noemail.net), August 30, 2004.

I'm with Vincent on this one.

Ideally, for me at least, this forum should be a good hangout for learning others' beliefs. However, conflicts are natural as a result of this diversity. Yet, there are also ways to tone things down to make dialogue acceptable to all.

-- Andy S ("ask3332004@yahoo.com"), August 30, 2004.

Ah! there they are! I found my chill pills.

Sorry for my ruffled posts.

..................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 30, 2004.

I always keep a bottle in my desk drawer. Just in case I run across a post about the Catholic Church being the "Whore of Babylon" ;)

-- Andy S ("ask3332004@yahoo.com"), August 30, 2004.

rod.,

Elpidio has done more that misinterpret Scripture. He denies that Scripture is accurate and He denies Jesus. That alone is a warning flag. He is also in the business of prophesying--and that, of course, makes him a false prophet.

Peter warns:

"So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.

He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

2 Peter 3:14-16

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), August 30, 2004.

Elpidio gives textual proof for his assertions. His dreams, on the other hand, are interesting.

........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 30, 2004.

At the very least, Elpidio is the catalyst for us to provide our side of the Salvation understandings, when refuting those understandings , which are dissimilar.

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 30, 2004.

I understand that rod--and I am not proposing to ban him.

My concern was more in the fact that I can't read his posts--and that fostering his claims which are contrary to Scripture--was wrong.

"Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.

Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work."

2 John1: 7-11

I care about Elpidio--but my goal is to reveal to him the truth according to God's Word.

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), August 30, 2004.

Ah! Elpidio, who denies the Holy Trinity, will not be banned, good. So, let's get James, who accepts the Holy Trinity, back on this board.

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 30, 2004.

[Note from Admin: Douggie, beat it.]

-- doug (douggie@annoying.com), August 30, 2004.

Thanks Emily, Rod, David, Jim,...for the encouragement.

Spanish is the official language in 20 countries and spoken by over 30 million plus in the United States.

Whatever I say in English I say in Spanish.

Even at one time we had a dialogue with Ian in French, the official language of 34 countries.

English is official in about 45 countries.

To me these 3 languages should be official for us here.

The Christian Yahwist

The Man of Yahweh Ps: As for the Trinity and Jesus not being God I will give you a reply in September. David's 100 questions /response.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), August 30, 2004.

That wasn't the point Elpidio--

The point was that as moderator I couldn't read your posts.

But apparently being moderator is not something to be taken seriously.

This forum is a not place to seek and find Jesus.

I had been mistaken.

Carry on with all your deception.

I absolved myself of any responsibility for what is preached here..

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), August 30, 2004.

Ian? A French man?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 30, 2004.

Ian has conversed with us in french and spanish.

.........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 30, 2004.

faith, I am also co-moderator with you and David. Only Rod and Kevin have more seniority than me among regular posters. I entered the forum in October 2003. I was the first person to answer david's question in the catholic forum on the death penalty. That week he and Kevin were banned. That is why David has shown me some sort of respect even though theologically we are poles apart.

For that reason, I wouldn't do something that would break the rules. The rules speak of respect. They speak of citing sources.Even if you cannot read what I write, David, Rod, and others here do. So they can complain if they find something insulting or out of place.

But I concentrate mostly in fixing threads: cataloguing them, doing some spelling changes,...I still don't ban or delete people. So far I have left David deal with that.

You are a great contributor. If you founfd a thread whre I dissed you, let me know.

We are co-workers in a mission: have people of several religious backgrounds get answers to questions they have. Foment a positive dialogue among the participants.

The Christian Yahwist

PS: Yesterday morning before 8 am I had a dream (second of 4 I had) where vaguely I remeber hearing you say that you had given up on this issue. That you were going to let me post.

Are you a White woman, medium sized (170-195 lbs)? That's a woman I saw before I heard your voice. She was wearing a white blouse/dress all the way to her ankles. I din't hear her speak, but that's what I vaguely remember.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), September 01, 2004.

Hi Elpidio--

Thanks for your post. Just so you know, I never said that I didn't want you to post. But because of your questionable beliefs--I felt I needed to be able to read what you posted, so that I could respond appropriately b--defending the truth in Scripture as I see fit. That is why David chose me--because he respected my faith position, even though he and I don't agree 100%

I feel that innocent lurkers and even people we know here--need to see that you reject Jesus Christ as God--and that that makes what you post--dangerous--to those who are not so biblically wise.

I think I was mistaken about what was meant to be moderator here. I thought that David wanted to present Jesus Christ and His gospel message as the center of this forum--debating and refuting false teachings.

I have stepped down as moderator here., so, really--there is no more issue for me. I cannot in all good conscience allow you to further your gospel, in another language--no less., and just ignore it. I would rather be free of any responsibility from that, and just post when I can as a spectator.

And this, Elpidio--

Are you a White woman, medium sized (170-195 lbs)? That's a woman I saw before I heard your voice. She was wearing a white blouse/dress all the way to her ankles. I din't hear her speak, but that's what I vaguely remember.

This reminds me of James Van Praug. Have you heard of him? "I'm getting a *k*.., does the letter *k* mean anything to you?" Blah., blah., blah.

I am not going to give you any information about my looks--only to assure you that if I weighed that much, I would hate myself! And the blouse and dress thing-- to the floor?? Yikes!! Not me.

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), September 01, 2004.

k for "kick" meaning laugh?

I get that all the time.

What I find is that you quit easily. That is not good.

You knew I posted in Spanish at the Catholic Forum.

Being a moderator here has changed. Most moderators are Protestants with different beliefs. Assuming You had been the original moderator before, would you have nanned Kevin and David for having a different interpretation about salvation?

That's what I respect from David Ortiz, he may dislike and disagree with my beliefs, but he rather "refute" than let me loose.

The idea for us, 2000 years separated from our Christian Roots is to find the true gospel.

You yourself claim Roman Catholics have perverted the Gospel. If they haven then, what makes you believe that what you believe is the true Gospel? That's when I come in.

You can refute me, debate me, ...when I post in English. I am 41 and for 21 years I have endured all kinds of insults from Catholics, Protestants,...

But I have not quit!!!

What makes me different to all others you have met is that I can debate, argue, from the Bible in English, Spanish, Hebrew, Greek,...From History, from Church Fathers,...from dreams.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), September 01, 2004.

k for "kick" meaning laugh? I get that all the time.

I am not sure what you mean, Elpidio. I just pulled that letter out of nowhere to use as an example of how I have seen false prophets and mediums use that sort of thing in their work. Because they are not really in touch with the dearly departed love ones of our lives or with God for that matter--but, rather--with demons., they don't really get good readings. They get letters and clues--but they have to fish for the rest. It's really very funny.

Your dream is just like that, Elpidio--and it is only a dream. You did not see me. This much I know--as you did not come close to describing me. I understand that you never claimed it to be anything more than a dream--but knowing the credit you give your dreams--I just wanted to clear that up for you.

The problem I have is that I believe you are a false prophet. I know that you believe yourself--but I think you are seriously deceived.

I am not a quitter., Elpidio. Quite the contrary--I can really hang in there. Stepping down as a moderator was something I had no choice about. My Lord and Savior told me to do this, as we are not to partner with anyone who denies that Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

But you can be sure that I will still come here and give you a hard time over whatever it is you post. That is--if I can read it.

You knew I posted in Spanish at the Catholic Forum.

Actually-- I never really paid attention. But I am not responsible for what they allow to be posted over there.

Being a moderator here has changed. Most moderators are Protestants with different beliefs. Assuming You had been the original moderator before, would you have banned Kevin and David for having a different interpretation about salvation?

Why do you ask this? Did I ever try to have you banned? I think you misunderstand what my complaint was.

That's what I respect from David Ortiz, he may dislike and disagree with my beliefs, but he rather "refute" than let me loose.

As long as we can read what you are posting--we can refute you.

The idea for us, 2000 years separated from our Christian Roots is to find the true gospel.

We have never been separated from our roots, Elpidio. We have the Holy Spirit with us. Jesus said He would never leave us--and He hasn't. The Holy Spirit was given to bring to our remeberance everything that Jesus taught us. The Holy Spirit guided the apostles in their writing of the Scriptures and the same Holy Spirit guides us in understanding. The Scriptures are the Living Word of God-- timeless, ageless and foolproof.

You yourself claim Roman Catholics have perverted the Gospel. If they haven then, what makes you believe that what you believe is the true Gospel? That's when I come in.

The Roman Catholic gospel cannot be found in the Scriptures--at least., the things we protest cannot be. The way I know that I have the truth is because the Holy Spirit revealed it to me. Through the Holy Scriptures--I was born-again. Washed new by the Word. This was a real experience for me--and since then--I have come to know truth like I never did before. Only the Holy Spirit in me can be credited. Therefore--I trust in the Scriptures from which this happened for me.

You can refute me, debate me, ...when I post in English. I am 41 and for 21 years I have endured all kinds of insults from Catholics, Protestants,...

But I have not quit!!!

What makes me different to all others you have met is that I can debate, argue, from the Bible in English, Spanish, Hebrew, Greek,...From History, from Church Fathers,...from dreams.

No Elpidio--you do not have the support of the Holy Spirit because you deny Jesus Christ, therefore, the Scriptures do not support your claims--they confound you. That is what sets you apart from true believers. I don't care about how many languages you can be wrong in-- that is not relevant to me. Unless you receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and acknowledge that He is God--the truth is not in you.

I think you are well meaning--but you are seriously lost from what I can see. Don't worry., I will not give up on you.

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), September 01, 2004.

Yikes!!! You also talk to God Yahweh faith!!!

My Lord and Savior told me to do this

Since he doesn't speak to you in Dreams, does he talk to you in person, through a body sensation, by a tongues discourse,...

You say you know the truth because the Spirit revealed that to you!!! ?????

The way I know that I have the truth is because the Holy Spirit revealed it to me. Through the Holy Scriptures--I was born-again.

Let's assume he does, faith,

what has the Spirit said about me to you....

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), September 02, 2004.

The Holy Spirit reveals that

"Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work."

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), September 02, 2004.

But, Faith. Have a strong look at the verses you've provided. It doesn't say that Jesus is God. This is the way Elpidio will read it. That's the way that Scripture reads. Do you see the problem? So, basically, Elpidio will stand justified by that Scripture. Elpidio does believe that Jesus is our Saviour. He adheres to the Scripture you've provided. And, Elpidio will also provide Scriptures that deliniate Jesus and the Father as two individuals. This is the problem with interpretations, which can be difficult to refute. A person can look in the mirror and say that the image belongs to only one person. Another may say that we see two images existing in two seperate spaces, but not necessarily one individual.

.......

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 02, 2004.

I already addressed that.

Here it is:

And in case Elpidio would be compelled to argue that he doesn't deny Jesus came in the flesh--it is important to note just what that means:

John 1:1-4, 14

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), August 28, 2004.

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), September 02, 2004.

Yes, I read that entry.

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 02, 2004.

So why bring it to question again then, rod?

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), September 02, 2004.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

See my answer faith here

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00Bpp5

Rod is correct on his observations about me, faith. I don't deny Jesus came in the flesh. (see I John 4).

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), September 02, 2004.

I believe that Elpidio accepts Christ in this fashion.

The Word is the intermediary of God like the words of a man define his thoughts. No one can come to God unless it is through Christ. Arius had the same view and belief.

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 02, 2004.

Jesus is the Word is God.

Jesus is Emmanuel=God with us.

To believe that Jesus came in the flesh--necessarily means then, that you must believe that Jesus is God. The Word [Jesus] became flesh...In the begining was the Word., and the Word was with God and the Word was God

You can try and use trickery and claim that you believe Jesus came in the flesh--but are you believing what it truly means? You can fool some people on this board--but you can't fool God.

-- ("faith@myway.com"), September 03, 2004.

I believe in the Holy Trinity. (For the record.)

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.co), September 03, 2004.