What exactly does the word "mediator" mean in 1 Timothy 2:5?

"For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

-- Kin Juh (yougottareadthis638@hotmail.com), August 18, 2004

Answers

A mediator is a third party who intervenes to facilitate reconciliation in a broken relationship or dispute between two other parties. Jesus Christ, as God and man, was the only one who could repair the rift in the relationship between God and mankind caused by the sin of Adam and Eve. He alone, by His death on the cross, mediated the reinstatement of that broken relationship.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), August 18, 2004.

"A mediator is a third party who intervenes to facilitate reconciliation in a broken relationship."

But this sounds to me like a description of a Catholic priest when he performs the judicial act of absolution on a sinner in confession.

-- Kin Juh (yougottareadthis638@hotmail.com), August 20, 2004.

interesting isn't it?

-- foo (foo@bar.net), August 20, 2004.

"But this sounds to me like a description of a Catholic priest when he performs the judicial act of absolution on a sinner in confession."

A: I can see why you might say that. However, in sacramental confession a person goes to God, confesses to God, and receives absolution from God. The priest is simply the minister through whom God works. If the penitent simply confessed to the priest, and the priest took notes and later presented those sins to God and begged for forgiveness in proxy for the penitent, then received God's decision and delivered it back to the penitent, then perhaps the priest could be considered a mediator. But in the sacraments we come face to face with God, one on one. No mediation.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), August 20, 2004.

Why then does the Catholic Church insist that we confess our sins to a priest? If we confess them directly to God, who is to say that He won't forgive us?

-- Kin Juh (yougottareadthis638@hotmail.com), August 27, 2004.

God Himself instituted sacramental confession for the forgiveness of sin. It was He who told the first priests of his Church, "If YOU forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if YOU retain the sins of any, they have been retained." (John 20:23) Immediately before assigning this unique ministry to them, He empowered them to fulfill it, through a special outpouring of the Holy Spirit, signified by His breathing upon them. Obviously He did not call upon the Apostles to provide this ministry to the Church unless He desired and expected the Church to make use of it.

Anyone who has experienced the profound healing grace of this incredible sacrament can't imagine what trying to live the Christian life would be like without it. A bit like trying to live our natural lives without medical care. Of course, anyone who has not experienced Jesus personally touching them, renewing them and removing their spiritual burdens in this way could not possibly begin to understand what it is all about. Christ has blessed us with such unimaginably powerful gifts through His Church. Nothing of earth could even begin to compare. But then, the sacraments are not of earth. They are a sharing in the life of heaven, here and now. God Himself, present to us in a way more profound, more real than any other experience short of the Beatific Vision itself.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), August 27, 2004.

Of course, anyone who has not experienced Jesus personally touching them, renewing them and removing their spiritual burdens in this way could not possibly begin to understand what it is all about.

But if I confess my sins to God directly in faith then I can experience Jesus personally touching me, renewing me and removing my spiritual burdens even more so than someone else who went to confession but with less faith. The experience shouldn’t be dependent on whether a priest is there. It should depend solely on one’s relationship with and faith in Jesus Christ.

-- Kin Juh (yougottareadthis638@hotmail.com), August 31, 2004.

You’re kidding yourself, Kin. God’s forgiveness doesn’t depend on whether YOU subjectively experience a warm fuzzy feeling. Maybe God has forgiven your sins, but how can you KNOW? God’s not going to let His forgiveness depend on something as vague and airy as whether you subjectively experience a personal feeling of Jesus personally touching you. (I’ll believe it’s not simply a personal feeling or wishful thinking if you tell me SOMEONE ELSE saw the physical Jesus personally touching you.) God gave us the Sacrament of Reconciliation to remove all doubt whether our sins are forgiven when we confess them to Him.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), August 31, 2004.

TRADITION Tradition drives in cars Through country and through city, While Bishops shift in sand And sink with souls, a pity. Tradition flies in planes From ocean coast to coast Under Mary's mantel blue, Our solitary boast. Tradition travels far, Twas all in Our Lord's plan To preserve the Holy Faith For woman and for man. Tradition lives and moves, The pews, the families fill, While Bishops sink in sand... Tradition takes the Hill!!!!!!

-- Harvey (jaszbo@yhoo.com), September 01, 2004.

Nice poem Harvey, but what’s it got to do with the subject of this thread? And isn’t the Tradition of our faith transmitted through the apostolic succession of the bishops? Otherwise it will deteriorate to just a changeable human tradition.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), September 01, 2004.

Steve,

"God gave us the Sacrament of Reconciliation to remove all doubt whether our sins are forgiven when we confess them to Him."

But you can't say for sure that God won't forgive someone's sins if they don't go to confession nor can you say that EVERYONE who goes to confession is forgiven since they have to go with a truly repentant heart. If they are not truly repentant then why would God forgive them? Just because they went and told a priest they were? So how can you KNOW that your sins are forgiven to the extent that you can prove it? The answer is that you can't. It is a matter of faith. If you believe in your heart that you truly repent and that God has forgiven you then why wouldn't you be forgiven?

-- Kin Juh (yougottareadthis638@hotmail.com), September 07, 2004.

Wrong, Kin. All that is required for absolution is that you are sorry (for ANY reason – it could be just because you got caught!) and confess your sins without deliberately concealing any serious sin. It is quite easy for us to know for sure that we are sorry and that we have not deliberately concealed a serious sin. It is not necessary for me “to know in my heart that I truly repent” to know that my sins are forgiven. The scriptures show that when the apostles and those they ordain forgive sin in Christ’s name, it is truly forgiven.

However if you do not receive the sacrament of Reconciliation but merely “believe in your heart that you truly repent and that God has forgiven you” – well possibly He has, who am I to say? But you could just be kidding yourself and you have no way of knowing.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), September 07, 2004.

Absolution does require true contrition. Being "sorry" that you got caught is not contrition, and is not sufficient for absolution. However, contrition sufficient for absolution can be either perfect or imperfect. Perfect contrition means we are sorry for our sins because we love God and have offended Him. Imperfect contrition means we are sorry for our sins because we forfeit heaven and are in danger of eternal damnation. Either of these forms of contrition is adequate, with confession, for absolution of our sins.

Also, true repentence is necessary for absolution, which means a genuine intention of turning away from that sin and not continuing to commit it.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), September 07, 2004.

I hesitate to disagree with you Paul, as you are obviously better informed than I, but I was taught that imperfect contrition “means we are sorry for our sins for ANY OTHER reason other than because we love and have offended God, FOR EXAMPLE because we forfeit heaven and are in danger of eternal damnation”.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), September 07, 2004.

Steve,

I agree with the definition. I just don't think that "being sorry I got caught" qualifies as "being sorry for my sins", either perfectly or imperfectly. And neither does it indicate any intention of avoiding sin in the future. I sounds more like "next time I do it I'll be more careful".

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), September 07, 2004.

So I maintain my argument that you have no way of KNOWING your sins are forgiven whether you go to confession or not. All you have is faith that God in His abundant mercy has forgiven you. I agree with Paul that a genuine intention of turning away from the sin and not continuing to commit it is necessary. But a priest has no way of knowing whether this is the case. He will just give his absolution regardless. So then what difference does it make whether I go to confession or not? My argument is not so much that it is wrong to confess to a priest as much as it not being wrong to confess to God directly.

-- Kin Juh (yougottareadthis638@hotmail.com), September 07, 2004.

Paul, I know it's a minor point but I don't think that being sorry just because you got caught, and having a firm purpose of amendment, are mutually exclusive. You could possibly have a firm purpose of amendment just because you know you'll get caught if you sin again (e.g. maybe you're a very incompetent thief.)

Kin, you have no basis on which to maintain your argument. The priest does not have to know for certain whether you are truly sorry and have genuinely repented. If you hoodwink him, he will say the words of absolution, but the absolution will not take effect unless you really are sorry and have a firm purpose of amendment. You KNOW whether you do or not. If you do, you KNOW you are forgiven in the Sacrament.

As you were told before, in the Sacrament of Reconciliation we DO confess our sins to God directly. The priest is there only to represent Christ. Now you may claim that you have a personal “direct line” to God and that you “heard” God forgive you through your “direct line”. Maybe this is possible. Or else you are kidding yourself. You CANNOT KNOW unless you are forgiven through the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), September 07, 2004.

Steve, if we personally pray to the Lord, confessing our sins, how can our prayers not be heard? If we are truly repentant in our heart, then there's no reason whatsoever why personal confession would have no efficacy.

Though I by no means hold to the doctrine, let's just take the case of baptism by desire. Though someone may not go through the actual process of baptism, your church claims that the intentions of the heart are enough for that person to have already received the sacrament by virtue of their desire. Now again, I don't hold to such a doctrine, but I would ask the question "If one holds to baptism by desire, why could one not hold to confession by desire?"

-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), September 08, 2004.

The Catholic Church does indeed hold to confession by desire. If someone has repented of a grave sin, and sincerely desires to confess it in the Sacrament, but through no fault of his own dies before he has a chance to receive the sacrament, then in effect that sin is absolved.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), September 08, 2004.

Ok, so am I right in guessing that the doctrine would imply that if someone confesses their sin privately to God, while they are still breathing, God will not forgive them until they actually confess before a priest or until they die?

Also, what practical implication does that have on Christ's role right now as the high priest?

-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), September 08, 2004.

Also, what practical implication does that have on Christ's role right now as the high priest?

Does the pope need to sit in on every confession? do the bishops? no. The forgiveness is granted through the priest from Christ because Christ gave the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven to His church... therefore, the priest has (under normal circumstances) authority to bind and loose sins, which are then treated accordingly in heaven as stated by Christ Himself.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), September 08, 2004.

The idea of "baptism by desire", or "absolution by desire" so to speak, applies only when actual baptism or actual confession is impossible, and the right intent is present. If a set of parents have no intention of having their child baptized and the child dies, there is no reason to assume that the child received the graces of baptism by desire. Likewise if parents repeatedly postpone baptism for no good reason and the child dies unbaptized as a result of their procrastination, it is doubtful that baptism of desire applies. But if the parents have made the necessary arrangements to have the child baptized, and fully desire and intend to do so, and the child suddenly dies before the actual sacrament can be administered, then baptism of desire applies.

Likewise with absolution. If I have the opportunity to go to confession, but don't make use of the opportunity, and die in a state of mortal sin as a result of my decision, then there is no reason to think that sin is forgiven, even though I planned on confessing it at some point. But if I am truly contrite and repentent and have already made specific plans to go to confession at the earliest possible opportunity, but die before I can do so, then I can expect that the graces of the sacrament will apply.

The title of "high priest" applied to Christ indicates that He is not the only priest, but delegates His authority to other priests under Him. If that were not the case, He would simply be "THE priest", not "high priest". This is why He could say to the Apostles, "whose sins YOU forgive, they are forgiven them; whose sins you hold retained, they are retained". It was a delegation of the authority of the High Priest to other priests, who would act in His name, granting His absolution by His authority, not their own.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), September 08, 2004.