For those that would like to continue discussing things further from the Original Sin thread, this is the expansion thread. The other thread was closed due to it's size. I remind people, that there is no need to start conspiracies.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 12, 2004

Answers

Bump.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 12, 2004.

Max,

Do you believe people can be lost?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 15, 2004.

I'm thinking,. you are Lutheran right?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 15, 2004.

God's predestined seed can get lost, but God will ALWAYS successfully seek them out, find them, and bring them home. Remember the parable of the lost sheep?

If you are referring to a person having faith and then losing it, of course this happens all the time. There would be no encouragement to hold onto faith if it was impossible to lose faith.

However, a person who has faith in God is not necessarily one of God's predestined seeds.

A child has faith, but may lose it later on. However, God's predestined seed will ALWAYS return to faith... ALWAYS. It's not so much a matter of chance or the freedom of human will. It's a matter of God's Divine Will and Power.

This is why we strive to make our calling and election sure. We don't strive to make our calling and election sure as if there's a chance that our calling and election is on the edge and not determined one way or the other in God's Mind. God already knows the outcome. He even has His hand in the outcome. We strive to make our calling and election sure so that WE CAN ALSO KNOW FOR SURE that we are among God's elect, predestined before the world began to become children of God.

God thought about and planned out each of His beloved children before the world ever began. None of these predestined seeds can be lost or stolen.

The main problem people have with this truth is that they think it means that there are those who, no matter what they do, they cannot be saved. They think, since it's determined beforehand, they should just give up now, because they're doomed to begin with.... yadda yadda.... these people have such a failure in logic.

The truth is, those who are striving to find God - who TRULY have this deep intense internal drive for the Truth - these are God's predestined seed and WILL be saved in the end... because they are seeking Christ and will believe in Him when God reveals Him to their hearts.

Those who do not seek Christ, the hearts which God does not cultivate, these can do nothing to be saved because they will never truly seek Christ. God does not fully cultivate their hearts to seek Christ. He fully cultivates His predestined seed to seek Christ... and they find Him - or rather - Christ will ALWAYS finds His lost sheep, the predestined seeds of God.

-- Max Darity (arrowtouch@yahoo.com), August 28, 2004.