How much Paul/Apostles would have earned todaygreenspun.com : LUSENET : A.M.E. Today Discussion : One Thread
A very serious question by Ron Harris ( see under topic SALARY), which I believe was just brushed aside.
Just in answer to your question Ron: Paul indicated in 1 Cor 9:10 that he does not expect to be paid for what he is doing, to quote .." Anyone who plows and anyone who reaps should do their work in the hope of getting a share of the crop. 11 We have sown spiritual seed among you. Is it too much if we reap material benefits from you? 12 If others have the right to expect this from you, don't we have an even greater right?
But we haven't made use of this right. Instead, we have endured everything in order not to put any obstacle in the way of the Good News about Christ. 13 Surely you know that the men who work in the Temple get their food from the Temple and that those who offer the sacrifices on the altar get a share of the sacrifices. 14 In the same way, the Lord has ordered that those who preach the gospel should get their living from it. R35
15 But I haven't made use of any of these rights, nor am I writing this now in order to claim such rights for myself. I would rather die first! Nobody is going to turn my rightful boast into empty words! 16 I have no right to boast just because I preach the gospel. After all, I am under orders to do so. And how terrible it would be for me if I did not preach the gospel! 17 If I did my work as a matter of free choice, then I could expect to be paid; but I do it as a matter of duty, because God has entrusted me with this task. 18 What pay do I get, then? It is the privilege of preaching the Good News without charging for it, without claiming my rights in my work for the gospel."
We must not confuse the organised church with "the church against which the gates of hell shall not prevail" the two are quite different ( Luke 18:8). The faith that Jesus left to be proclaim has been so mangled that what we have in our churches today leaves much to be desired!! The organised church's input and commitments nowadays totally depends on the financial rewards and benefits it can gain. Bottom line of everything seem to be: how much will I get out of it.
-- Anonymous, July 30, 2004
Rev. Pillay, thank you for sharing and reminding us of this scripture. One of the things that Paul talks about is being ordered by God to preach the gospel.
For some of us there is a fire in our bones that cannot be put out for God, we just keep going and going. I remember when I was beginning the ordination process in the United Methodist Church. There was much time and deliberations given to the question Is "this candidate called by God" or is this something the candidate wants to do for prestige and/or money.
At that time in the late 80's a candidate had to spend a year with the pastor of their local church and with members of the local church discussing an authentic call. After a year it was voted on and then a recommendation given to the Bishop. It was an ardousous process. Looking at the call of Jeremiah, Moses, Paul and others and examining our own faith journey.
Witnessing for Christ is stepping out on faith, that what God promises in scripture will come true. Salaries are important, I do hope we will have a base salary for all pastors. But I believe the call is just as important if not more important. For if one is in the ministry to pastor a big church and make a lot of money, they will never be happy no matter how much money, they make, and they will destroy congregations.
I have wonderful colleagues on the continent of Africa, Rev. Mwandu, he works a full time job, runs an aids orphanage and pastors. Rev. higgins with a circuit in south africa and helping street children and going to the bush to preach, my friend Pastor martin in Kenya who pastors 17 churches and has an aids orphanage, Presiding Elder Biwa, Rev. Hanse and so many others, who do not make the money that US pastor's make but are doing extraordinary ministry!!
One of the reasons I am so excited about having African Bishops and opportunities to dialog with our ame family in Africa, is that I want to learn from my mentors in the mother land. Our ame churches in africa are having phenomonal growth and soon will be larger than US churches. The focus does not seem to be on making money or pastoring large churches.
Rev. Pillay what is happening in Africa, that all of this is happening and what advice do you have for us in the U.S?
Thanks for your thoughts.
-- Anonymous, July 30, 2004
How much would the apostles earn today? They were basically employed before they answered the call. Luke, a physician, brothers James and John were fisherman, and Matthew was the much despied tax collector. They all GAVE UP their professions to follow Christ. It was not a paying job.
Matthewed was killed by a sword in Ethiopia. Mark was dragged by horses through the streets until dead in Egypt. Luke was hanged in Greece because he preached to the lost. John was boiled in oil in Rome. He survived, and then exiled to a prison island in Patmos where he wrote Revelation. Peter was crucified upside down on an X- shaped cross. James the Just, the Jerusalem church leader and brother of Jesus was thrown 100 feet from the temple where he refused to deny his fatih, at the same pinnacle where Jesus was tempted by Satan. He survived so they beath him to death with a club. James the Greater was beheaded in Jerusalem. Bartholomew was whipped to death in Turkey for preaching in Armenia. Thomas was speared and died on a missionary trip to India. Jude was killed by arrows for refusing to deny his faith in Christ. Matthias was stoned and beheaded. Barnabas was stoned to death in Salonica. Paul was tortured and beheaded in Rome.
Yes, so how much would these men earn today? Jesus thought them priceless because He called them. How much would you pay them?
To be honest, I do not think many pastors today compare with the disciples of old. Too few are willing to go to the smaller congregations and accept what that particular congregation can pay. Watch their faces at annual conference.
Not withstanding the above, I believe we do need a well paid clergy. However, once that happens they must meet a standard set by the conference. At that time we will be able to reject pastors with blind ambition and no moral character. They will no longer occupy our pulpits spewing rhetoric turning virtue into vice and vice into virtue.
-- Anonymous, July 30, 2004