Over the years, I have had the opportunity to attend several different churches and was wondering why we (Catholic church) have such a solemn mass as compared to some of the denominations out there? (Everyone seems to happy, in comparison, to be worshipping the Lord -singing, dancing, crying etc etc) Has the Catholic church always been this way? I remember the old Latin masses, when the priest did not face the parishioners, and I remember the more 'liberal' times of the 70s when people were encouraged to become more active within the church, but I do not remember a time when the church was more 'enthusiastic' (?) perhaps not the right word, but do you know what I mean??

-- Ima Catholic (not@yerhouse.net), July 27, 2004

Answers

I am old enough to remember the days you are talking about, Ima. Your question strikes me as odd in two ways. In those days I remember people in my parish sobbing and crying during the mission preached by a Redemptorist priest, who came down the aisle waving his cross and crying about the choice between heaven and hell. We had a Jesuit preach the 40 Hours Devotion and I remember spending an hour before the Blessed Sacrament hearing the quiet sobs of people around me praying for the souls in Purgatory and for their own sins. I remember the long lines waiting to go to confession and the long self- examination required when a Capuchine from Yonkers did the parish retreat. In more recent years, Cursillio movement and other such groups have come through parishes I have been in. They provoked wonerful responses and excitement, but they were never as fruitful as the missions of my youth because they never really challenged people to change their life and go to confession. In any case, Ima, none of these events were a replacement for the sacramental worship of the Church. They were meant to return people to the worshhip of God, which has nothing to do with getting people excited and providing them with passing emotional states. Worship in the Catholic Church is NOT a form of entertainment or an emotional excitement, it is an act of self-surrender offerred to Almighty God. Its purpose is not to provide people with emotional and fun experiences. Protestants think that "worship" is about making people have "great experiences"; we Catholics believe that worship is about offerring our lives to Almightly God. Unfortunately since the 1960s, many Catholics have come to think that the Church's "job" is to provide them with "moving experiences". A moving emotional experience is certainly a good thing, but it is not worship. The old Latin Mass was bad at giving people great "experiences" and "excitement" but it made clear that worship was what we offerred to God, and not a form of entertainment. The current Mass is probably weaker on the sacrifice of the self to God, but it still makes Christ present in Holy Communion. Let us pray that the preachers with the power of the old Jesuits, Capuchines, and Redemptorists might still arise in the Chruch and teach people to return to the Mass and sacraments, and let those who return understand that worship is not a form of emotional entertainment, however exciting and satisfying, but an offerring of the self to God and his gift of himself to us.

-- observer (nospam@notmail.com), July 28, 2004.

Ima, people get excited having a Happy Meal at McDonalds, or listening to the latest hit song that will soon be forgotten. People seem solemn having a superb cordon bleu meal in a silver service restaurant, or listening to a grand opera. Excitement doesn’t tell you the food is good for you or that the music is inspiring and uplifting.

The performance that this type of protestant churches put on is a complete turn-off to me. It all seems so FAKE! However some Catholics (Charismatics) put on a version of the type of show you are talking about while remaining loyal Catholics. They’re not my cup of tea but maybe you could try worshipping with them.

And as my mother said when I complained I was bored at Mass, "You only get out of it what you put into it!" Now that I understand the monumental reality of what happens in each Mass, it doesn't really matter if the hymns are dirgeful, the congregation is unresponsive and the homily is tedious. It's THE MASS!

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), July 28, 2004.

Thank you for your comments. I do not want to 'change churches'..(I belong to a great parish with a wonderful priest). I am also not looking for 'entertainment' while worshipping. But worshipping should be a happy event..irregardless of religion. My own pastor says he understands what I am talking about though. I just cant remember attending a catholic church where the people were enthusiastic about worshipping. (*And you know what I am saying: mumbled responses, half-hearted singing..) Wouldnt it be wonderful to hear everyone responding like they really felt the Lord in their heart? (Come back to me, with all your heart, dont let fear keep us apart....) We dont have to 'roll in the aisles' or 'jump and gyrate' to feel the spirit. Sorry you dont agree, but I guess that's what makes the world go around!

-- Ima Catholic (not@yerhouse.net), July 28, 2004.

My own pastor says he understands what I am talking about though. I just cant remember attending a catholic church where the people were enthusiastic about worshipping.

****I understand what you are saying. When I go to Mass it is between myself and God. I go there to worship, pray and pour my heart out to Him and I know I will not be looking "enthusiastic" to anyone who looks at me. Knowing the true presence of God will be with us should be enough excitement for all. Try not to focus on others and only worry about yourself. This has helped me when going to the Novus Ordo Mass. Also sitting in the front helps.

God Bless.

-- Jalapeno (jalapeno52000@hotmail.com), July 28, 2004.

"I just cant remember attending a catholic church where the people were enthusiastic about worshipping. (*And you know what I am saying: mumbled responses, half-hearted singing..)"

This is peculiarly a problem of Catholics in countries with an Anglo Protestant majority. Perhaps a carryover from the days when Mass had to be said in secret to evade the Redcoats. Catholic churches elsewhere are full of enthusiastic responses and loud singing.

Another reason for half-hearted singing is that some parish music directors seem to think that they must keep introducing new hymns and Mass settings at a rate far in excess of the average person's ability to learn them well enough to able to confidently belt them out.

Also I think many people today have the lost the confidence to sing in public. I think this is partly because in our grandparents' time, an evening's entertainment was singing songs with your friends and family. Very few of us do this today. We spend most of our entertainment time listening to recorded music, TV, movies etc.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), July 28, 2004.

"This is peculiarly a problem of Catholics in countries with an Anglo Protestant majority. Perhaps a carryover from the days when Mass had to be said in secret to evade the Redcoats. Catholic churches elsewhere are full of enthusiastic responses and loud singing."

Sorry Steve but I have to say this. I'm actually quite tired of these pot shots taken at protestants all the time. I actually sit back quietly a lot of the time just observing what people say here. Whether a Catholic church has a problem with the singing is a problem of that particular local church. Please do not bring Protestantism into the equation and heap blame upon them. And yeah, this is a Catholic forum, but that shouldn't be a license to pull out another attack. It might not seem like a lot, but I've seen many such comments blurted out without it seems any consideration or fear.

-- Oliver Fischer. (spicenut@excite.com), July 29, 2004.

Dear Ima,

I too have been wondering the same questoins until I matured in my Spiritual Journey through years of trials. But by the grace of God now when I go for Holy Mass I am able to concentrate fully and am able to follow almost every word (though getting distracted sometimes) as long as I close my eyes and sit in one of the front pews. This has caused me to feel the very essence of sanctity which is very different from what I felt at other services(I too have attended many other services of different denominations). I feel the unity with Christ so much now unlike the previous times where it seemed so ritual and so boring that I myself find it hard to believe this change.Praise God for His wonderful Mercy and Love.

All I can say is as you become mature on our Spiritual Journey the Holy Spirit works on each one differently.I Hope and pray that you too will feel this way. God Bless, Ramanie.

-- Ramanie Weerasinghe (lilanw@yahoo.com), July 29, 2004.

Great Scott, Oliver, aren’t you being just a bit hypersensitive? It is a plain historical fact that the Catholic Mass and sacraments were banned in British possessions for centuries and had to be said in secret. I made no “attack” or “potshots” or “heaping blame” on Protestants “blurted out without any consideration or fear”. LOL! I merely said “Perhaps” the tradition of mumbling Catholic congregations dated from the penal times. Such traditions do have a tendency to be passed on. Do YOU have an alternative theory why Catholics in Anglo countries are so much less demonstrative in church than other Catholics? And don't tell me it's because of "hot Latino blood" because Catholics of Slavic, German, African, Indian and ALL other races sing out loud and strong.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), July 29, 2004.

Dear Ima,

Like Ramanie's post, I too focus on what is now going on in the mass due to trials in my life. Mass is serious business for me. I also close my eyes, I listen to the readings like I have never heard them before. I do sing, but the songs are no longer "just songs to fill in gaps of a boring ritual" (kind of how I viewed them in my past).

Often, the songs or readings even bring tears to my eyes (now I don't want to look the fool in church each week and become known as the "crier") but I take the oportunity to meditate on the Word of God and the Eucharist. What a gift we have!

And I am also a fervent believer in stopping the chatter at church. That is not a sign of enthusiasm, but of irreverence. A priest friend of mine was visiting a parish and described an appalling scene. In the so-called spirit of community, parishoners were bringing cups of coffee into the service and extending coffee hour well into the mass. A sense of community can be achieved without chatting during mass.

Some of us need that big trial in our life to bring us to our knees and jump start our serious devotion to God. I aparantly fall into that catagory. I pray for people to open themselves up to God before a trial hits. Life changing events make for a difficult way to enliven your faith - and that is exactly why God allows trials to happen.

God Bless.

Jennifer

-- Jennifer (jrabs@jrabs.com), July 29, 2004.

I can address the singing part since I used to be a song leader.

Some Masses just are NOT big on singing, usually 7:30 am and earlier (I used to lead singing at 6:30 am Mass). Part of that is simply because people aren't used to singing so early (early for them, anyway) and you're singing in too high of a key for them (even for me some days it was "key of Frog" that I was singing in...). Part of it could be that the demographic going earlier is older, and doesn't like the newer music--I always had much better participation with older hymns.

I think your more "enthusiastic" Masses are the 9:30 and 11 am "family Masses". They tend to have newer music, and are more "touchy-feely" if you will pardon the expression.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), July 29, 2004.

Dear Ima,

I can empathize with you. Eucharist is a community celebration, hence it is ideal all respond with zeal and enthusiasm. It is not always the same in the all the churches. Everything depends the kind of the people and the priest around. Going to Charismatic prayer groups may help fill this vacuum. Try going to a Charismatic retreat first.

-- Leslie John (lesliemon@hotmail.com), July 29, 2004.

I think the problem is that we live in a society that emphasizes the here and now. We must feel God's presence now to know that we are worshipping correctly. I don't think the Catholic Church should buy into "theropudic Christianity." That is a Christianity that's sole purpose is to make you feel good.

I think that we emphasize that too much in our world. There is no sense of hell and damnation. Preachers and priests only seem to emphasize God's saving power, not what can happen if we don't follow the will of God.

There should be a good balance between the soleum Mass and a more charizmatic Mass. Things like Life Teen are too charizmatic.

Along the music lines I could see the murmering coming from the penal times. That would make sense to me. I also think that the rapid changes in music don't help either. One other problem is that the hymns from the 60 are horrible. In my old parish, we played the same hymns week in and week out for 15 years. I just don't think that the music today is artsy enough for the Mass. More chant would be awesome.

Overall, we just need a better balance between pre-V2 and post-V2.

-- Scott (papasquat10@hotmail.com), July 31, 2004.

I liked a lot of the "folk mass" and the "Missa Bossa Nova", I also enjoy much of the music in OCP (Oregon Catholic Press).

I do think that part of the problem with the whole Folk Music thing is that many people take it to mean that everything about Mass should be informal, especially if the music is played in "boom, chuck, chuck" style or straight chord strumming, instead of perhaps with TIMIRI or a good classical guitarist. Don't get me wrong, the more informal style does have its place, but perhaps it should be 'round the campfire at youth group or at an outdoor Mass during the annual festival.

And the advent of the portable keyboards, while certainly offering the same convenience as a guitar capo (press a button and without learning new chords you can change a key up or down) has also opened the door to some weird sounds that are best heard outside of a church building. On the other hand, they can produce a reasonable facsimile of a pipe organ, which most parishes could not afford to buy.

Chant would be neat, but I think you also need building with the proper acoustics to get the full effect, and most church buildings aren't built with that in mind anymore.

What annoys me MOST is people taking old, perfectly good hymns and either 1) rearranging them (All Glory, Laud and Honor is one particularly awful example) or 2) taking the music from old, perfectly good hymns and putting new lyrics to them.

I don't like the "contempory Christian music" you hear on the radio, but at least we don't hear it at Mass.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), July 31, 2004.

I find it more and more difficult to find a Mass that reflects Calvary. I have finally given up trying, and now attend the rite of St. John Chrysostom. They are uniform, always devout, with total adoration.

The Masses that I used to attend are always seeking new novelties.

-- Charlie (witherspoon@hotmail.com), August 01, 2004.

"I'm actually quite tired of these pot shots taken at protestants all the time. I actually sit back quietly a lot of the time just observing what people say here. Whether a Catholic church has a problem with the singing is a problem of that particular local church. Please do not bring Protestantism into the equation and heap blame upon them. "

Chill Olly! Its almost as if you have a complex or something.8-)

-- - (David@excite.com), August 06, 2004.

"Chant would be neat, but I think you also need a building with the proper acoustics to get the full effect, and most church buildings aren't built with that in mind anymore."

O.K., first off I do agree with some "contempory Christian music" should not be sung in mass, but not all. The more 'liberal' times have lead to a better understanding of the church for young people and teenagers. The "contempory" music that may be sung in church has a time and place, but if the music gets people excited about than so be it. As long as the people singing do not forget what the mass is about. The people cannot forget about the Holy Sacrament of Communion.

The bottom line is, the church wants to be more 'enthusiastic', but we must remember what we are there for. We go to the Mass to worship God and if that means people will do it in different ways. It doesn't mean people doesn't mean "there is no sense of hell and damnation". It may just be that they understand the mass and the joy and love of being a servent to God.

Next time don't expect everyone to think or feel the same way you do about the mass.

-- Nicholas (aflac1@carolina.rr.com), November 30, 2004.