I ONLY post this as a matter of interest for everyone on the forum. Faith and I got into a discussion concerning the Apostle's Creed. I told her that I thought it was not formed until the 4th century. I won't tell you her response to me as it was quite insulting. But at any rate, her prompting did cause me to do some research.

As we all probably know, the Arian heresy wrought it's ugly head sometime in the late 3rd century. That heresy taught that Christ was not divine. St. Athanasius was the ONLY Bishop who stood up against his fellows and defended the divinity of our Lord. The battle was brutal. Heads rolled. The heresy ALMOST overtook the Church, but for one little man, St. Athanasius.

Here is the text of the council found at ccel.org

COUNCIL OF NICEA ST. ATHANASIUS COUNCIL OF NICAEA

Letter of Eusebius of Caesarea to the people of his Diocese [1].

I. What was transacted concerning ecclesiastical faith at the Great Council assembled at Nicaea, you have probably learned, Beloved, from other sources, rumour being wont to precede the accurate account of what is doing. But lest in such reports the circumstances of the case have been misrepresented, we have been obliged to transmit to you, first, the formula of faith presented by ourselves, and next, the second, which [the Fathers] put forth with some additions to our words. Our own paper, then, which was read in the presence of our most pious [2] Emperor, and declared to be good and unexceptionable, ran thus;

2. "As we have received from the Bishops who preceded us, and in our first catechisings, and when we received the Holy Layer, and as we have learned from the divine Scriptures, and as we believed and taught in the presbytery, and in the Episcopate itself, so believing also at the time present, we report to you our faith, and it is this

3. "We believe in One God, the Father Almighty, the Maker of all things visible and invisible. And in One Lord Jesus Christ, the Word of God, God from God, Light from Light, Life from Life, Son Only-begotten, first-born of every creature, before all the ages, begotten from the Father, by Whom also all things were made; Who for our salvation was made flesh, and lived among men, and suffered, and rose again the third day, and ascended to the Father, and will come again in glory to judge the quick and dead. And we believe also in One Holy Ghost: "believing each of these to be and to exist, the Father truly Father, and the Son truly Son, and the Holy Ghost truly Holy Ghost, as also our Lord, sending forth His disciples for the preaching, said, "Go teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost [4]." Concerning Whom we confidently affirm that so we hold, and so we think, and so we have held aforetime, and we maintain this faith unto the death, anathematizing every godless heresy. That this we have ever thought from our heart and soul, from the time we recollect ourselves, and now think and say in truth, before God Almighty and our Lord Jesus Christ do we witness, being able by proofs to shew and to convince you, that, even in times past, such has been our belief and preaching."

4. On this faith being publicly put forth by us, no room for contradiction appeared; but our most pious Emperor, before any one else, testified that it comprised most orthodox state- 75 ments. He confessed moreover that such were his own sentiments, and he advised all present to agree to it, and to subscribe its articles and to assent to them, with the insertion of the single word, One-in-essence, which moreover he interpreted as not in the sense of the affections of bodies, nor as if the Son subsisted from the Father in the way of division, or any severance; for that the immaterial, and intellectual, and incorporeal nature could not be the subject of any corporeal affection, but that it became us to conceive of such things in a divine and ineffable manner. And such were the theological remarks of our most wise and most religious Emperor; but they, with a view (4a) to the addition of One in essence, drew up the following formula:--

The Faith dictated in the Council.

"We believe in One God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible:-- "And in One Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father, Only-begotten, that is, from the essence of the Father; God from God, Light from Light, Very God from Very God, begotten not made, One in essence with the Father, by Whom all things were made, both things in heaven and things in earth; Who for us men and for our salvation came down and was made flesh, was made man, suffered, and rose again the third day, ascended into heaven, and cometh to judge quick and dead. "And in the Holy Ghost. "And those who say, 'Once He was not,' and 'Before His generation He was not,' and 'He came to be from nothing,' or those who pretend that the Son of God is 'Of other subsistence or essence (4b),' or 'created' or alterable,' or 'mutable,' the Catholic Church anathematizes."

5. On their dictating this formula, we did not let it pass without inquiry in what sense they introduced" of the essence of the Father," and "one in essence with the Father." Accordingly questions and explanations took place, and the meaning of the words underwent the scrutiny of reason. And they professed, that the phrase "of the essence" was indicative of the Son's being indeed from the Father, yet without being as if a part of Him. And with this understanding we thought good to assent to the sense of such religious doctrine, teaching, as it did, that the Son was from the Father, not however a part of His essence (5). On this account we assented to the sense ourselves, without declining even the term "One in essence," peace being the object which we set before us, and stedfastness in the orthodox view.

6. In the same way we also admitted "begotten, not made;" since the Council alleged that "made" was an appellative common to the other creatures which came to be through the Son, to whom the Son had no likeness. Wherefore, say they, He was not a work resembling the things which through Him came to be (6), but was of an essence which is too high for the level of any work; and which the Divine oracles teach to have been generated from the Father 7, the mode of generation being inscrutable and incalculable to every originated nature.

7. And so too on examination there are 76 grounds for saying that the Son is "one in essence" with the Father; not in the way of bodies, nor like mortal beings, for He is not such by division of essence, or by severance no nor by any affection, or alteration, or changing of the Father's essence and power s (since from all such the unoriginate nature of the Father is alien), but because "one in essence with the Father" suggests that the Son of God bears no resemblance to the originated creatures, but that to His Father alone Who begat Him is He in every way assimilated, and that He is not of any other subsistence and essence, but from the Father (9). To which term also, thus interpreted, it appeared well to assent; since we were aware that even among the ancients, some learned and illustrious Bishops and writers (1) have used the term "one in essence," in their theological teaching concerning the Father and Son.

8. So much then be said concerning the faith which was published; to which all of us assented, not without inquiry, but according to the specified senses, mentioned before the most religious Emperor himself, and justified by thee forementioned considerations. And as to the anathematism published by them at the end of the Faith, it did not pain us, because it forbade to use words not in Scripture, from which almost all the confusion and disorder of the Church have come. Since then no divinely inspired Scripture has used the phrases, "out of nothing," and "once He was not," and the rest which follow, there appeared no ground for using or teaching them; to which also we assented as a good decision, since it had not been our custom hitherto to use these terms.

9. Moreover to anathematize "Before His generation He was not," did not seem preposterous, in that it is confessed by all, that the Son of God was before the generation according to the flesh (2).

10. Nay, our most religious Emperor did at the time prove, in a speech, that He was in being even according to His divine generation which is before all ages, since even before He was generated in energy, He was in virtue (3) with the Father ingenerately, the Father being always Father, as King always, and Saviour always, being all things in virtue, and being always in the same respects and in the same way.

11. This we have been forced to transmit to you, Beloved, as making clear to you the deliberation of our inquiry and assent, and how reasonably we resisted even to the last minute as long as we were offended at statements which differed from our own, but received without contention what no longer pained us, as soon as, on a candid examination of the sense of the words, they appeared to us to coincide with what we ourselves have professed in the faith which we have already published.

****

WOW!! It is awe-inspiring to read this council's final work in that this heresy was the first HUGE threat to the Church. The Council was held, the judgment was rendered, and St. Athanasius was the man of the hour!

Gail

-- Gail (Rothfarms@socket.net), July 06, 2004

Answers

To the top please!

-- Gail (Rothfarms@socket.net), July 06, 2004.

Gail, what you posted is a letter from Bishop Eusebius to his flock, a sort of "pastoral letter", which works.

The council text can be found at ccel.org or here. Lot's of early church writings, including council text can be found at this NewAdvent index.

It's worth noting that the Apostle's Creed ante-dates the Nicene Creed. The difference is that the Apostle's Creed does not strictly define our understanding of the Trinity, the concept that the Son and Spirit are One in Being(of one substance) with the Father. The Apostle's Creed merely talks of three, or something like a triumvirate without affirming that the three are one. It only states that there is One God. Thus, it can be open to interpretation without the sanction of the church in which it is professed. That is, there's no presumption that the Son is God. Here is yet...another NewAdvent article dealing with the Apostle's Creed. I thought this was old news..Oh well, I'm pressed for time here. Can't be too picky, and hopefully, some of that is useful.

God bless!

-- Vincent (love@noemail.net), July 07, 2004.

said other article Sorry about that.

-- Vincent (love@noemail.net), July 07, 2004.

Thank you Vincent. Really good info!

Gail

-- Gail (Rothfarms@socket.net), July 07, 2004.

Well, first original creeds of the Church:

The first one gave rise to the Apostles creed. Notice no mention of Catholic Church, no Hell, no God from God,....

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened [his] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Act 10:36 The word which [God] sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)

Act 10:37 That word, [I say], ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Act 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

Act 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

Act 10:41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, [even] to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God [to be] the Judge of quick and dead.

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

The second tried to expand on some of those early beliefs. Yet, even Paul in expaining the resurrection in Chapter 15, does mention that resurrected bodies are different that fleshy bodies.

1Cr 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1Cr 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

1Cr 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

1Cr 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1Cr 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

1Cr 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

1Cr 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

1Cr 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which [was bestowed] upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

1Cr 15:11 Therefore whether [it were] I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

1Cr 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1Cr 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

1Cr 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith [is] also vain.

1Cr 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

1Cr 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

1Cr 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.

1Cr 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1Cr 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

1Cr 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Cr 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.

1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Cr 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1Cr 15:24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1Cr 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1Cr 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.

1Cr 15:35 But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1Cr 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1Cr 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]:

1Cr 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

1Cr 15:39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds.

1Cr 15:40 [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another.

1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

1Cr 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1Cr 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

So in essence, whatever was added later, must be confronted with what was there originally.

Whatever the Church fathers believed, must be confronted, not accepted blindly.

The Christian Yahwist

The Man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), July 09, 2004.