marriage/baptism questiongreenspun.com : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread
Is it possible for me, a Catholic, to be married to a Non-Denominational Christian by a Catholic priest and not baptize our children?
-- Danielle Skwierczynski (email@example.com), June 07, 2004
Bump to New Answers to invite comment.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 07, 2004.
If you don't accept the most basic teachings of the Catholic Church, in what sense are you "a Catholic"? Catholics baptize their children, as they have done throughout the entire history of Christianity. If you don't believe in that, you are not Catholic.
-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), June 07, 2004.
Talk to a Catholic priest. If your hearts are in the right place, you can work these things out.
-- Bill Nelson (email@example.com), June 07, 2004.
What do you mean "a Non-Denominational Christian"? If he's a Christian he must belong to some denomination (even if he's the only member of it). It's not possible for him to simultaneously believe all the contradictory beliefs of the different denominations.
-- Steve (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 08, 2004.
The term Non-Denominational describes a faith that does not rely on an established religion but on Our Holy Father for Guidance through His Son Jesus Christ. Some do not have a religious Hierarchy: Biships, Deacons ect, but rely on the guidence of the Holy Spirit and scripture to say and do as God Almighty asks. Which is the purpose of the Water baptism. An outward sign of an inward change. When we let God touch our hearts, then we want people to know. We all come to that moment in time in our lives. Let God show you when and where. This is the reason Jesus died on the cross. So that we can have a personal relationship with the father.
-- Rick (email@example.com), June 08, 2004.
I wish for my children to be baptized, but my boyfriend, a former Catholic who now calls himself a Non-Denominational Christian (and isn't even sure that this is the correct title for him) does not want his children baptized when they are still infants and have no say in the matter. I'm just seeing if there is a way we can make a compromise of some sort, I have no desire to go against my faith.
-- Danielle S. (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 08, 2004.
The term "Non-Denominational" describes people who claim to be Christian, but who do not affiliate themselves with a specific denominational church. All Christians, whether "non-denominational", denominational, or members of the true Church founded by Jesus Christ for all men, claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit. Obviously that claim cannot be supported for denominational religion, since the Holy Spirit cannot be responsible for the fragmentation of Christianity, and cannot be the source of conflicting and contradictory doctrinal beliefs. The only way a Christian can "say and do as Almighty God asks" is to be a member of the Church Christ founded for all men. Jesus said that all men were to belong to that Church. Therefore, failure to do so means rejecting what Almighty God has already commanded.
What separates one denomination from another is the set of beliefs accepted as valid by that church. Or to put it another way, the set of original Christian teachings rejected by that body. Denominations form when people reject a portion of the belief set of another church. The word "denomination" comes from the Latin "de nomina", meaning "out of the name" or "away from the name". People who reject identification with one denomination automatically become members of a different denomination. People who reject identification with all current denominations automatically become new denominations. It doesn't matter whether the dissenting body is 50 people or 5 people or 1 person. As soon as anyone cuts themselves off from all other denominational belief sets, they are by definition a new denomination, with a new belief set defined by no authority other than their own.
"A faith that does not rely on an established religion" is not the faith of the Apostles, and is not the faith founded by Jesus Christ, who said "upon this rock I will build my Church".
-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), June 08, 2004.
danielle, in the interest of your children, im going to ignore your second post for the time being and address your original question:
Is it possible for me, a Catholic, to be married to a Non- Denominational Christian by a Catholic priest and not baptize our children?
WHY??? why in the world would you WANT to jeopardize the spiritual lives of your children because you feel 'uncomfortable?' i'm sorry, but in your shoes i would put my foot down on this issue at the very least. what if he decides he doesnt want you to tell them about catholicism, or he doesnt like it when you go to mass? are you going to give up YOUR faith for him? if you want to be a catholic, no matter what, why would you let your potential children slip by the wayside? do what it takes, thats the JOB of a parent.
-- paul h (email@example.com), June 08, 2004.
Danielle, if you are serious about your own faith than I too am wondering why you would ask the question. To marry someone who right off the bat is insisting that any children from the marriage not be baptized goes immediately against an essential doctrine of your Catholic faith. What will your marriage be like? Will you be happy going to Mass alone as he attends his services by himself? Or will you find it more convenient to attend his church and abandon your own to keep peace in your house? IMHO, if you want to hold onto your own faith you need to have a lot of prayer and reflection upon this relationship..rethinking if this is the right one for you. Love does NOT "conquer all" .
-- lesley (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 09, 2004.
No, he does not have a problem with my belief in Catholicism, it's just not for him. We've already gone through this- he'll believe in what he believes in and the same goes for me. I don't think we'll have any issues dealing with our faiths in respects to each other, but when it comes to our future children, that's where we differ. I do agree with him on the point that they should choose their own religious beliefs but would still like for them to be baptized... And we have also already discussed the issue of teaching our children about Catholicism- he doesn't have a problem with my teaching/discussing the my faith with them, but thinks they should know of other religions' belief systems too so they are able to choose what they themselves believe in from a larger religious picture/knowledge base. I guess the issue is where does my faith end and my future children's begin?
-- Danielle S. (email@example.com), June 09, 2004.
God does not wish each person to "choose his own beliefs". God desires every person to know the TRUTH, as revealed by Himself to the One True Church He personally founded for all humankind. You are a member of that Church, though apparently not a very knowledgeable one. Your fiance is not a member of that church. It is not in the best interest of your children to be exposed to his false beliefs. That's the simple truth.
-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), June 09, 2004.
When the Bible uses the words "the church," it always refers to all those who trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, not just to members of the Catholic church:
"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord..." 1 Corinthians 1:2
The Apostle Paul wrote:
"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;" Ephesians 5:25
Paul was not a Catholic, yet he knew that Christ loved him and died for him. Certainly, no one would dare say that Paul was not a Christian because he was not a Catholic.
Would anyone suggest that God only loves Catholics?... or that He only died for Catholics? Such would be the case if the Catholic church was the only church.
Paul also proclaimed:
"And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us..." Ephesians 5:2
So, Catechism says the Catholic church is the One True Church, but the Bible says it is not. Individuals have to make a decision as to which he or she believes.
-- Danielle S. (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 10, 2004.
"When the Bible uses the words "the church," it always refers to all those who trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, not just to members of the Catholic church"
A: That is incorrect. The Church Christ founded was the only Church in exsistence at the time, and history clearly reveals that the Church Christ founded is the Catholic Church. "All those who trusted in Jesus Christ alone for salvation" in Apostolic times and for 1,000 years after, were members of that one true Church founded by Christ, and were therefore Catholic.
"Paul was not a Catholic, yet he knew that Christ loved him and died for him. Certainly, no one would dare say that Paul was not a Christian because he was not a Catholic."
A: Paul was most certainly a Christian, and therefore was most certainly a Catholic, for the reasons given above.
"Would anyone suggest that God only loves Catholics?... or that He only died for Catholics? Such would be the case if the Catholic church was the only church."
A: Of course not. God loves all human beings perfectly and equally, which is why He commanded His Holy Catholic Church to "make disciples of all peoples". It is because He loves all people that He founded one Church for all people, teaching the fullness of divine truth under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Would anyone suggest that God calls people to untruth, and then tells us the truth will set us free? Obviously the thousands of conflicting manmade denominations of Protestantism cannot represent the fullness of truth, since they all conflict with one another doctrinally, and truth cannot conflict with truth. Therefore this cannot be the will of God, who expressed His personal intent "that they all may be ONE".
"So, Catechism says the Catholic church is the One True Church, but the Bible says it is not. Individuals have to make a decision as to which he or she believes."
A: The Bible says that Christ founded ONE Church, commanded that Church to make all people its members, and identifies that one Church as "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim 3:15). No, people do NOT have to make a decision as to what they will believe. Saying that is equivalent to saying truth doesn't matter. Christ TOLD us what we are to believe, and there were NO conflicts or contradictions in what He told us. Therefore, a tradition which is filled with conflict and contradiction cannot represent the teaching of Christ. It is traditions of men, which the Bible clearly warns us against.
-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), June 10, 2004.
Most Protestants will tell you that baptism is only symbolic, but that is not true. It is the first step in the salvation process, and a means through which God chooses to dispense grace upon His children. The salvation of your children will be at stake if you do not have them baptized! Check out this article from Catholic Answers: Infant Baptism.
-- Emily ("email@example.com), June 10, 2004.