Fatima-and Sister Lucia

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I liked this thread, about the apparition of Mary At Fatima, Portugal. HAVE WE FORGOTTEN FATIMA?

I took a comment from this person: #39 May 30, 2004, 10:42 PM Hananiah .... Re: HAVE WE FORGOTTEN FATIMA? None that I know of, but the relevant section from Sungenis' essay is fairly short.

Quote: Second, in an interview which appeared in Sol de Fatima (September 1985), Sister Lucia was asked if the Pope fulfilled the request made by Our Lady at Tuy, Spain, when he consecrated the world on March 25, 1984. Sister Lucia answered: "There was no participation of all the bishops, and there was no mention of Russia." The interviewer then asked, "So the consecration was not done as requested by Our Lady?" Sister Lucia answered: "No. Many bishops attached no importance to this act." [This coincides with the previous statement cited from John Paul II that he did not consecrate Russia though he "tried to do everything possible in the concrete circumstances"]. On March 22, 1984, Sister Lucia was celebrating her seventy-seventh birthday at the Carmel of Coimbra. Her long-time friend, Eugenia Pestana, visited her, as was her annual custom. Eugenia asked her: "Lucia, Sunday is the Consecration?" referring to the March 25 date. Having already read the text of the Pope's speech, Sister Lucia answered: "That consecration cannot have a decisive character because Russia does not appear in it as the sole object of consecration." (Fatima, Tragedy and Triumph, pp. 172-173).

During this time, Cardinal Gagnon, in an interview with Fr. Caillon, states that the consecration of Russia has not been accomplished. In 1986, Maria do Fetal, cousin to Sister Lucia, publicly quotes Sister Lucia as saying that the consecration of Russia has not been performed. But similar to Fr. Coelho's reversal (previously cited), Maria will also mysteriously change her mind in 1989. In addition, in 1988, Cardinal Gagnon will castigate Fr. Nicholas Gruner for publishing his remarks in the Fatima Crusader, claiming they were not meant for publication.

Third, after interviewing Sister Lucia outside her convent, Enrico Romero publishes the contents on July 20, 1987. He reports that Sister Lucia again stated that the consecration of Russia requested by Our Lady of Fatima had not been accomplished. This is followed on October 25, 1987 with an acknowledgment by Cardinal Mayer, in front of an audience of a dozen Catholic leaders, that the consecration of Russia had not been accomplished.

Fourth, prior to July 1989, Cardinal Law of Boston is reported to have visited Sister Lucia to ask her about the consecration of Russia. Sister Lucia remarked: "Has it been done on the narrow road of collegial consecration that Our Lady demanded and has been wanting? No, that has not been done."

...After achieving her silence, Archbishop Bertone then produces a four-page, typewritten statement, purportedly typed and signed by Sister Lucia herself on November 8, 1989, that the consecration of Russia had been accomplished.

...Many point out, however, that Sister Lucia has never stated, privately or publicly, that she composed the statement, let alone sign it. She has never been known to type a letter, since all her correspondence thus far has been from her own handwriting. Her own blood-sister, Carolina, indicates that Sister Lucia does not even know how to type. And certainly, an admission by Sister Lucia that the March 25, 1984 consecration satisfied Our Lady's request would completely contradict every statement she has made on the requirements for the consecration over the previous sixty years, including her five denials of 1983, 1984, 1985, 1987, and 1989, respectively.

Other aspects of the November 8, 1989 letter also cause suspicion. First, in its June 26, 2000 press release, the Vatican does not provide the source of the November 1989 letter. Only the date is provided. Thus, it is not known to whom Sister Lucia was writing the letter; nor what prompted her to write it. The most obvious reason the Vatican wishes not to reveal the source is that they are quite aware that on October 22, 1990, a court-accredited forensic scientist who analyzed the signature on the four-page typewritten statement stated, in writing, that the person who signed it was not the same person who signed Sister Lucia's memoirs. If so, then this is a case of forgery perpetrated by the Vatican itself. The Vatican purports that Sister Lucia wrote the letter to a man named Walter Noelcker. www.catholicintl.com, Fatima: Consecration or Coverup?

By what he said, then it seems that Rome has been trying to keep information about siter Lucia from the public.

She is the only Catholic visionary other than John Bosco I accept to a certain degree in the last 150 years.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 01, 2004

Answers

Excerpt taken from this site Third Secret

VATICAN CITY, JUN 26, 2000 (VIS) - Given below is the complete translation of the original Portuguese text of the third part of the secret of Fatima, revealed to the three shepherd children at Cova da Iria-Fatima on July 13, 1917, and committed to paper by Sr. Lucia on January 3, 1944:

"I write in obedience to you, my God, who command me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your Most Holy Mother and mine.

"After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendor that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: 'Penance, Penance, Penance!'. And we saw in an immense light that is God: 'something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White 'we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork- tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God."

What this vision showed in 1917 was the end of the Catholic Church if it didn't do penance for all the sins comitted.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 01, 2004.


Hi Elpidio,

I'm not much into conspiracy theories but I do find the discussion on whether the Pope's consecration of the world in 1984 met the request at Fatima to consecrate Russia. IMHO, folks focused on this part of the vision miss bigger points. Repentance and conversion and a call to holiness.

You said, What this vision showed in 1917 was the end of the Catholic Church if it didn't do penance for all the sins comitted.

I tend to agree.

By the way, have you ever read any of Lucia's memoirs? She seems to me to be a woman truly in love with Our Lord. I think all Christians, not just Catholics, can appreciate her writings. A simple woman who articulates the message of the Gospel quite well, I think. Just MHO.

-- Andy S ("aszmere@earthlink.net"), June 02, 2004.


I think so, too, Andy.

Sometimes because the other person has beliefs contrary to ours doesn't make the person worthless.

What is so strange is that she is still alive in her 90s. There has to be a reason for it.

I am trying to find more info on her.

What books are under her name?

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 02, 2004.


Sometimes because the other person has beliefs contrary to ours doesn't make the person worthless.

I agree 100 per cent Elpidio.

The books I know that have been published under Sister Lucia's name are:

1. FATIMA in Lucia's own words

2. FATIMA in Lucia's own words II

3. "CALLS" from the message of Fatima

I have read 1 and 3. I personally found 3 to be the most enlightening.

-- Andy S ("aszmere@earthlink.net"), June 02, 2004.


Thanks, Andy.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), June 03, 2004.


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