I notice that when people reply to protestants here they often seem to with distain or contemp. Are we not each a child of the Lord? Thank you.

-- roger harmon (roharmon@yahoo.com), May 25, 2004

Answers

Response to why do catholics speak of protestants with such distain?

bump, and answer

roger, it has alot to do with how the protestant comes here. if they come preaching with the rod, they arent likely to recieve a warm welcome.

there are others who come with an open mind and ready to learn. they are graciously invited to join us. unfortunately, these are few and far between. protestants more often than not come here to teach us why our "faith" is wrong, when they know as little about catholicism as i know about brain surgery. often they are invincible in this ignorance as well, and thus after dealing with them kindly the first few times they soon wear out their welcome.

i liken it to a dinner table. we are a family sitting around a table discussing our catholic faith. we welcome guests in our home to eat and discuss with us. when rude guests come in, try to rule the conversation with attacks on our family, we usher them out the door, because this is not the place for them. would we allow protestants to interupt our sacred mass while shouting out against the church? then why should we let them impede the purpose of this internet sanctuary?

-- paul h (dontsendmemail@notanaddress.com), May 25, 2004.

Response to why do catholics speak of protestants with such distain?

Roger,

Unless someone is REALLY acting like a jerk, they are usually given the benefit of the doubt at first, and not treated badly IMO. Unfortunately, when you read old messages, you don't get the flavor of how that person has been posting over the past months. If the post you read is from someone who has been rude here, or just plain won't listen to what our views are and insists on repeating themselves over and over on the exact same thing, if you read the 53rd post to THAT poster, you shouldn't be suprised that the posts start out hostile. Not because of their point of view, but because it's the 53rd time the guy has said the SAME thing, without listening to or showing any respect for, the replies given him.

Of course people always have bad days, and sometimes someone could walk on a landmine or just get treated unfairly. That happens too, but hopefully not too much.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 25, 2004.

Response to why do catholics speak of protestants with such distain?

Dear Roger,

I would say that Non-Catholics are just as much to blame for mis- treating Catholics. I am not Catholic myself, but I feel very sad when I see other non-catholics going on a rampage to tear down other people.

I'd like to say that I've noticed the way that the Catholics in channel here have treated trouble-makers, and from my observation, they have generally been very patient and kind in their responses.

-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), May 25, 2004.

Response to why do catholics speak of protestants with such distain?

If you think that's bad, you should see the way Catholics talk to each other!!!!!!! Really though, Roger, some Protestants do post with an attitude. I personally get a little defensive because of the way I was dogged by protestants when I was a kid from a small southern town. I'm trying to behave lately. Some of the best on this board are actually converts to Catholicism. Go figure.

-- mark advent (adventm5477@earthlink.net), May 25, 2004.

Response to why do catholics speak of protestants with such disdain?

Thanks for replying. I am not Catholic, but I do respect everyones choice of Worship. I have no plans on converting, but I am interested in learning the history of the Catholic faith. Right now I am trying to learn how the Pope became the Vicar of Christ. Can anyone ppoint me in the right direction on what to research to find out? Thank you

-- roger (roharmon@yahoo.com), May 26, 2004.

Response to why do catholics speak of protestants with such disdain?

Matt 16:18-19 describes the appointment of Peter as Vicar of Christ. History records the direct line of succession from Peter to all subsequent Popes. That is why the Pope remains the foundational rock upon which the Church rests - the personally appointed representative (vicar) of the Rock Himself, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ; and that is why his official teaching is binding on all the faithful, and likewise bound in heaven.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), May 26, 2004.

Response to why do catholics speak of protestants with such disdain?

roger: here is a post by John F. Gecick. In it you¿ll find the answers to your question:

Baiting, I believe. Some of the other times it has happened: #1 ... #2 ... #3 "I have seen some latin writing, but have no idea what it means." Why would someone lie about this? Why not say, "I have been told" (or "I have read") "that there is some Latin writing"? Why, "I have seen ..."? Paul, your initial reaction was reasonable. Please don't let yourself be deceived. There is a lot of evildoing in the works these days. For example, I have no doubt that "francois de villiers" and "roger b allen" and "martin vicky" and "brooks" and "al quency" are one and the same person -- or are friends working together to wreak havoc here. Trust me. I have been observing satan at work here for more than three years. Satan is extremely unhappy these days. (He lost Iraq.)

God bless you. John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 16, 2003.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), May 26, 2004.

Response to why do catholics speak of protestants with such disdain?

enrique, your message is baffling, what exactly are you getting at...?

-- paul h (dontsendmemail@notanaddress.com), May 26, 2004.

When someone is passionate about their beliefs sometimes that comes out as arrogance or eliteism.

Many times, it's not intended that way.

My background is very ecumenical and evangelistic. I've seen it on both sides of the Protestant debate.

Some members of Other Churches tend to view Catholics as elitists. Some Catholics view the word protestant as a four letter word.

We all need to leave the Reformation behind, if we are ever to be unified under Christ.

God bless,

-- john placette (jplacette@catholic.org), May 26, 2004.

John,

I couldn't agree more than with your last sentence. Get the Protestants to renounce their heresy and put the Reformation behind us! The sooner the better ;-)

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 26, 2004.

Some Catholics view the word protestant as a four letter word.

bake? oh, no, thats not it... blue? no...

-- paul h (dontsendmemail@notanaddress.com), May 27, 2004.

'couldn't agree more than with your last sentence. Get the Protestants to renounce their heresy and put the Reformation behind us! The sooner the better ;-)'

Of course it's all our fault - despite the fact that Catholics and Protestants agree on 80% of stuff!

-- Sharon (sharon.guy@ntu.ac.uk), May 27, 2004.

I'd say Luther (esp. in his early years after the split)and most (not all) of the early Protestants agreed on at least 95% of the "stuff" that Catholics have always believed in (including Mary's perpetual virginity, the evil of contraception, male-only priesthood, etc. etc.) In most cases their original split was due to their objections to the Catholic church's PRACTICES (abuses in the sale of indulgences etc) or desire for local control over the church (eg in England). Only a very small minority of the first protestants had BELIEFS which diverged widely from the Catholic church's beliefs.

Over the centuries, Protestants' beliefs in general have drifted further away, so now we share less "stuff" with them. And today some protestants demand that Catholics change the beliefs we have always had, so that we can conform closer to what they NOW believe. When we refuse to do so, some of them accuse us of treating them with disdain!

The problem is that most protestants' faith is based on the Bible alone. So they think their interpretation of scripture is as good as anyone else's, and "the Catholic interpretation" is just one more interpretation no better than anyone else's. Protestants who realize that catholics believe their faith is what Christ gave to Peter and the apostles, and is therefore unchangeable, don't seem to have a problem with Catholics being "disdainful" of them.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), May 27, 2004.

Steve, I understand you point on Christ and Peter, I do however disagree with it. I am however curious on your use of the word disdainful, which when used in the context of your sentence, decribes Catholics as having a feeling of contempt for what is beneath one. In your opinion, is that how Catholics view Protestants?

John, Frank, Paul and Sharon- In my humble opinion and experience, Protestants have put reformation behind them and are moving on. But I don't see how that effects my orginal message thread. Thanks

-- Roger (roharmon@yahoo.com), May 27, 2004.

paul h: Roger asked the followin question.

"Right now I am trying to learn how the Pope became the Vicar of Christ. Can anyone ppoint me in the right direction on what to research to find out? Thank you "

I was only helping him find an answer, taht's all.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), May 27, 2004.

Roger,

My statement was meant rather tongue-in-cheek, btw. Oddly, I am more worried about Catholics who's incorrect beliefs lead them away from the faith than encouraging a reunification with Protestants. I say oddly because I believe you are held accountable to your level of understanding and belief, those NOT in full communication with the church do not have the fullness of Christ's truth. Their accountability IMO is therefore lower than that of a Catholic who turns their back on church teaching.

Sharon,

Sorry, I didn't mean that as a personal insult to anyone, and hope your studies are going very well. Of course your reply shows me what the problem a Catholic might have with various other denominations: Would you want a lawyer who was 80% familiar with your case, or would you want to have him 100% about your petition? That's the way I'd see it regarding the correct *interpretation* of Scripture (not to mention which books of the Bible comprise Scripture), in the case of your soul, no less than 100% is acceptable. LOL, if it was that easy, there wouldn't BE any division within the church, but that's for wiser people than me to solve.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 27, 2004.

edit this line to:

or would you want to have him 100% knowledgeable about your petition?

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 27, 2004.

oops, edit #2 "who's" should be "whose"

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 27, 2004.

oh, i gotcha enrique, but i think john was talking about the title "vicarius filii dei"[sic] when he was writing that. because technically the title Vicarius Christi (sp?) is one of the proper titles of the pope... although john was correct that this has never been inscribed on the top of the pope's mitre.

-- paul h (dontsendmemail@notanaddress.com), May 27, 2004.

Roger, I certainly do not have contempt or disdain for Protestants, nor do I’m sure 99% of Catholics. What I mean is that Catholics may APPEAR disdainful to those Protestants who don’t understand that the Catholics see their faith as coming from Christ via Peter. (Understand it without AGREEING with it; if they agreed with it they would become Catholic.)

It is also true unfortunately that a few of the regular Catholic contributors to this site adopt an extremely aggressive and insulting manner towards anyone (catholic or not) who dares to disagree with them. I apologize on their behalf. I assure you their behavior is not at all typical of Catholics in general.

And have Protestants really "put the reformation behind them"? In the last 100 years they seem in general to have accelerated their move away from Catholic beliefs and practises. It is the extreme fundamentalist protestant sects that are growing fastest. Yes, there are good signs in that the major protestant churches now have generally friendly relations with the Catholic church and co-operate with it in many ways. But the hard fact that all protestants will have to face, is that to achieve the end-point of ecumenism, total unity, the protestants will have to change their beliefs because the Catholics CANNOT change theirs. Many protestants would see this statement as "disdainful" but it is simply an unfortunate (for them) fact.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), May 27, 2004.

Catholics have such disdain for Protestants due to their lack of respect for the Catholic faith. Such disdain may or may not adhere to the true Catholic faith, but it is granted that Christains alike stand for true values - no matter who your leader. (May I remind my Amercan brothers that war is never a legitmiate option, regardless of what others may have done to your people. 'Turn the Other Cheek'.)

Luther, the great man that he may have been, showed contempt for the teachings of the Pope, contempt that resulted in violence and bloody repression of Catholics the world over, including the United States. Peter's successor is merely infallible in terms of faith and morals - indulgences refer to neither of these terms. Protestants therefore have no reason to criticise and denounce the teachings of the Catholic faith.

I hope in due course that Christians of all denominations can overcome their relatively minor differences and return to a Catholic (universal) faith. May peace reign once again over the beautiful lands of this Earth.

Peace be with you,

Tom

-- Tom (tomprouse@yahoo.com.au), June 08, 2004.

"Turn the other cheek" doesn't negate your right to defend yourself if you are attacked. Even more so, it doesn't negate your OBLIGATION to defend the innocent against unjust aggression. If someone broke into your house and started assaulting your family, would you "turn the other cheek"? Or would you justly retaliate? In the same way we have the moral obligation to protect the innocent against violence and aggression on a national and global scale. "Turn the other cheek" can just be another way of saying "I don't want to get involved".

Luther was just an average Catholic monk who rejected his vocation, rebelled against the Church of God, and unleashed upon the earth a scandalous tradition which has caused nothing but dissention and division in Christianity ever since. That isn't my idea of a "great man". A great man is renowned for the good he did. Luther was simply infamous, and 450 years later his tragic legacy remains the single greatest obstacle to the will of God for His Church.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), June 08, 2004.