Christian Living

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This forum has become diseased. I don't care what christian church you attend, because NOBODY has ANY right to tear other christians down. NOWHERE does the Bible give us authority to spew personal attacks upon others, and I will argue that ANYONE who does so has completely missed the messege of Christ. I come here less and less because the topics and questions have less and less to do with the search for answers, but instead providing an opportunity to allow slandor, pride, and malicious talk. So my question is, are we going to stop the finger pointing and search for truth, or should I find a different forum? If thrills is what you are after, go to the michael jackson forum.

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), December 10, 2003.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 22, 2004

Answers

Luke,

at moments like these, it is when our faith in tolerance should come to the rescue.

Remember when the disciples of Jesus said they had seen someone else curing and preaching in the name of Jesus? They told the person to stop.

What was Jesus response.

Dont stop him.

Reasoning: whoever is not against us is for us.

Some people still don't get it.

Let's pray for them.

Even Rod felt like quitting.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), December 10, 2003.


Is it a crime that the Catholics called Martin Luther a heretic? The dictionary defines a heretic as: a dissenter from established church dogma. The Catholic dogma was and is: faith and works, Luther said faith alone. Does that make him a heretic, to a Catholic I can't see how it wouldn't. I imagine that if Luther were alive he would have to agree.

On the other hand, he also made some anti-semitic remarks, which some lutherans seem to be proud of.

-- David Park (truthisfreedom316@yahoo.com ), December 10, 2003.


See what I mean Elpidio? There is nothing that I see that shows any amount of Christianity here. If an unbeliever visited this site, as I'm sure a few do, he/she would probably get the impression that any form of christianity is just as bad as anything else. Different views of christianity are one thing, but none of us should tolerate what is happening.

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), December 10, 2003.


I know is frustrating Luke.

Even Rod got frustrated.

The good thing for me I walked through this road before.

By being patient and trying to steer people in the right type of dialogue, then we can succeed in making an impact.

So far Jeannie cannot take the criticism.

So far, Ian has not learned to be more constructive in his criticism.

That is the reason why Islam was successful in overruning the Christian world in the 7th and 8th centuries.

We lost what is now Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, and so for to them for infighting.

We are already losing the battle here at the USA.

Many African Americans turn Muslims lately.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), December 10, 2003.


Ian, I remember you from the Catholic forum.

People called you a hater.

I never did.

I believe Ian, that you are a Christian too. You may not like what other people believe, but you are still a Christian.

Jeannie is going through a period where she believes she must spread "The Gospel".

Are her beliefs wrong? Some are, some are not. Some of her beiefs are not hers but from those she learned them.

That is why I am patient with her.

I believe she is a sincere Christian too.

She is at time in her life when she believes everything she believes now is the sole truth.

You do too.

That is why we do better by engaging in a type od debate where you not only pinpoint the bad but also the good.

Not be negative 100% but constructive.

As a sincere Christian, Ian, you can do the same,

have some patience with Jeannie.

Jesus said that whoever is not against us is with us.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), December 10, 2003.


Luke,

You wrote, "Different views of christianity are one thing, but none of us should tolerate what is happening."

My challenge to you is to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!! Start posting things that will cause some to SEARCH and to DIG for the TRUTH. The TRUTH is out there...and people are looking for it... Making a complaint about something without offering a way of fixing it or just being complacent and letting things happen never solved anything.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), December 10, 2003.


Who is looking for truth Kevin? From what I have seen, it seems personalities come here to press their beliefs upon others. They have closed minds and are unwilling to even consider the possibility that they could be wrong. I am not here to babysit. I would expect anyone who boasts about his or her knowledge would know how to carry a messege. Perhaps those who are most absolute are those who are most wrong.

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), December 10, 2003.


Luke,

You wrote, "Who is looking for truth Kevin? From what I have seen, it seems personalities come here to press their beliefs upon others."

Please notice your statement "From what I have seen". How about those who are coming here to lurk and have not posted anything??? Have you thought about them??? If the truth is presented (and it has been) those who are LOOKING for the truth will find it if they have good and honest hearts and are willing to OBEY God.

You wrote, "They have closed minds and are unwilling to even consider the possibility that they could be wrong. I am not here to babysit."

Yes, those who post here have closed minds and you are correct that they don't even consider the possibility that they could be wrong. I never said that you had to "babysit" now did I??? I have repeatedly said that if I am wrong, I will change my belief. I have yet to have someone here change my beliefs.

You wrote, "I would expect anyone who boasts about his or her knowledge would know how to carry a messege."

I have NEVER boasted about my knowledge NOR have I ever made any such insinuation. I have repeately asked for those who read what I have wrote NOT to follow what Kevin says, but what God says for this is what God desires.

You wrote, "Perhaps those who are most absolute are those who are most wrong."

I am not sure who you had in mind when you made this statement???

If it is your desire not to post or visit this forum, because of the garbage that Catholics have flooded this site with, then so be it.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), December 10, 2003.


Kevin,

There is no need to defend yourself except by your own personal convictions. I didn't name you as a culprit.

I do believe that the truth has been presented many times. My fear is that those seeking it will be led away due to the volumes of false claims and teachings that have also been presented. The Bible says that whoever seeks will find, but it also says that many will be pulled away from the truth. I just feel it is urgent to cut off as much unrelated character assasination. This is destructive. Let's try to build one another up with truth and let God tear down whatever walls need to fall.

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), December 10, 2003.


Luke,

Amen and Amen to your post above!!!!

I agree with you completely!!!!!

I know you weren't insinuating anything against me, I just wanted you and everyone else here to know that my mind is not shut like some who are here in this forum who have no desire to learn the truth but instead post garbage and throw insults at people at every opportunity.

My God continue to bless you in all that you do!!!

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), December 10, 2003.


I never dissed you, Ian.

My dreams did not shape my beliefs. I was normal as dreams are concerned and feelings about people dying or getting hurt until the age of 24. Everything started on October 8, 1986.

Before that, from ages 19-21 I was a more fundamentalist Catholic. was vicepresident of catholic Action.

My problems began when the Charismatic groups entered the Church. They began to replace us.

These people were claiming revelations from Jesus and Mary.

They believed that by speaking in tongues they had reached a higher level of knowledge of God.

We were somehow lost. My concern was why was the Pope allowing this? Did we have to speak in tongues be be now saved?

So I began to read the scriptures first in Greek.

This was the beginning of my eyes getting open to th truth.

Priest from my 2 churches had given me books in Latin and Greek, like the Didache, Letters of Ignatius, nd so on.

By 1983 one of them let me borrow his boks on Hans Kung.

Kung talked about things I didn't know.

So I began to search for more.

I began to have doubts.

Once I began to read some Hebrew and Aramaic, I realized I was duped.

Jesus was just a man, he wasn't God himself.

On July 23, 2000 I experieced the power of God himself and his Son Jesus. I saw them both in my dream.

So you can see that for 17 years did a lot of biblical research.

In college I had a minor in religious studies. My teachers were former jesuit priests. They told me to see a passage from several points of view. Find the backgroud from historical, cultural, linguistica, and in the whole picture.

That is why I can deal with people of any persuasion.

I only mention my deams if necessary. I don't dwell on them to prove a point, except if someone asks why do I believe in God or if I have seen God.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), December 10, 2003.




-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 22, 2004.

Luke,

I don't think anyone here thinks they can really change someone elses beliefs. I like to think that these topics we discuss are for the benefit of the reader/lurker, not a forum regular.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 22, 2004.


David

what strikes me is that the greatest pacifiers are actually the most skilled liars. that's not a global statement; just a comment on this thread --- and I can prove it if you want me to.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), May 22, 2004.


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