Question for everyone:

1. Is speaking in tongues a good thing?

2. Is it necessary for salvation?

3. Is this a gift that is still applicable today?

4. How frequent does/should legitimate speaking in tongues occur?

5. What is the purpose of speaking in tongues? Does it always require an interpreter?

I am interested merely to find out the opinions of all the people on this board. This thread is not intended to debate the issue of speaking in tongues, but rather to find out where everyone stands on it.

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), May 10, 2004

Answers

1. Is speaking in tongues a good thing?

If it is legitimately from God, yes. However, I believe that it is being grossly misused in some churches.

2. Is it necessary for salvation?

No. It is a spiritual gift, and God gives different gifts to different people.

3. Is this a gift that is still applicable today?

Yes.

4. How frequent does/should legitimate speaking in tongues occur?

I believe it is usually a rare occurance, only when God chooses to speak through someone when no other means are possible. Much of the so-called "speaking in tongues" that occurs in many churches these days I believe is either fabricated or people are being deceived. At the same time, I do believe that there is some legimate speaking in tongues. I think we should use caution and test the spirits in this area.

5. What is the purpose of speaking in tongues? Does it always require an interpreter?

I believe the main purpose for this is the edification of the body of Christ, and when it is spoken in church, it always requires an interpreter. It can only be exercised without an interpreter when the person is in private. But the main purpose is to do God's work (miraculously) when it cannot be done through natural means, or if God chooses to do a miracle.

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), May 10, 2004.

Emily,

For what it's worth, my opinion is the same as yours.

-- Andy S ("aszmere@earthlink.net"), May 10, 2004.

I've never witnessed anyone "speak in tongues" as the apostles did on pentecost. Maybe here are two rules to go by: if you can't make out what they're saying, they're not speaking in tongues no matter what language they're speaking in. If they speak in a language you have never used before and yet, you understand, they speak in tongues. I dunno, that's just my view.

I don't know if Satan can inspire someone to speak in tongues also...

Then there's the colloquial expressions that use the word tongue in them, but blah blah blah sometimes life is boring. Hope that helps :)

God Bless,

-- Vincent (love@email.net), May 11, 2004.

1. Is speaking in tongues a good thing?

I've seen it in action. They had faith, so I suppose for them it is a good thing. I've seen it on t.v., though. I'm not sure it is good for them t.v. "stars".

2. Is it necessary for salvation?

No, but I wonder if the false gift is bad for Salvation.

3. Is this a gift that is still applicable today?

Yes.

4. How frequent does/should legitimate speaking in tongues occur?

I would imagine that such an occurrance happens rarely, but appropriately within the context of faith.

5. What is the purpose of speaking in tongues? Does it always require an interpreter?

The purpose is to edify God, not man. An interpreter should always be required. Some have the gift to interpret such events.

..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 11, 2004.

Very peculiar...

I have a PC and a Mac side by side on my desk. The PC is displaying my post with the "bold" all out of whack, while the Mac shows no mistakes. Hmm?? very peculiar.

..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 11, 2004.

Rod, as I was testing and figuring out html, I noticed what I had typed at home (mac), appeared different from work (pc). I thought David was fixing them at first, perhaps he was, but now I know it wasn't just me.

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), May 11, 2004.

Hi Luke.

I may be the difference in browsers or browser versions that we may be experiencing . I tend to us IE 4.5 mostly. I also use IE 5.0 and Netscape 7.1. Also, the HTML I prefer is an older one, 4.0.

........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 11, 2004.

Luke,

While you're on this thread, could you give me an answer? I am interested in the Church of Christ position, if there is one.

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), May 11, 2004.

Well, I could tell you what most Christians who attend a church of Christ believe, but again there isn't any official creed for me to point at, and you'll find individual beliefs different wherever you go. I'll answer your questions as to where I'm at now, but I only speak for myself.

1. Is speaking in tongues a good thing?

The gift of speaking in tongues was given by God, so yes it is a good thing.

2. Is it necessary for salvation?

No. The Holy Spirit manifested itself in this one way at for certain people at certain times. 1 Cor. states that different men receive different gifts at the judgment of the Spirit.

3. Is this a gift that is still applicable today?

I don't know. If you get into techinical Greek grammar, there is great evidence that tongues and all other "charasmatic gifts" ceased after the last inspiring word was given to man. However, with the exception of Luke and perhaps Paul, the educational level of the NT writers was very limited, and so getting technical is not always a good idea. On the other hand, I'm not one to blasphemy the Spirit. If he is causing some to speak in tongues, I can't say anything against that.

4. How frequent does/should legitimate speaking in tongues occur?

It occurs, or did occur, whenever the filled person chooses to use it. The Holy Spirit doesn't force someone to speak in another language, otherwise we wouldn't have heard of gift abuse.

5. What is the purpose of speaking in tongues? Does it always require an interpreter?

Since the gift of tongues is the most visible manifestation, besides healing perhaps, it served as a confirmation of the promised Spirit Jesus spoke of. This is further revealed by Paul in 1 Cor. in which he states "Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers."

Tongues requires an interpreter because it is another language, and no one of that church will know what's going on unless there is one. Someone with the gift of tongues should never stand at the pulpit and "babble" unless there is in interpreter. Plus, unless the person w/tongues also has the gift of prophecy, he shouldn't even be up there in the first place. Churches that are supposedly "spirit-filled" essentially only prove Paul right, that unbelievers will think you're drunk. On the day of Pentacost, the men that heard the other's speaking in tongues said that they were drunk.

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), May 11, 2004.

1. Is speaking in tongues a good thing?

{Depends on the event and cercumstances surroundign it.}-Zarove

2. Is it necessary for salvation?

{No.}-Zarove

3. Is this a gift that is still applicable today?

{Yes.}-Zarove

4. How frequent does/should legitimate speaking in tongues occur?

{I don't know.}-Zarove

5. What is the purpose of speaking in tongues? Does it always require an interpreter?

{Well, I dont go for the chrihc of God/Pentacostl veiw where its a practice in normal service. I thik speakign in ARounges was meant for peopel to be able to communicate with foigners. Liek if you went to France and didn't speak French yet suddenly understood it and could. or if you went to chin and had an instance ability to speak and understand Chinese. its prupose os to convey the message f the Lord.}- Zarove

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), May 11, 2004.

"I am interested in the Church of Christ position, if there is one" - Emily

You'll get it, sooner or later. But basically they don't believe they are still in effect today, and the only ones left are satanic.

Kevin, please keep the posts small; If you look in the "Is Baptism Required for Salvation? Part One of Five" thread, your first reply to Emily is a good example of how big posts should be. About 900-1000 words. Anything double than that might cause the thread to mess up.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 11, 2004.

Sorry, nevermind about the word count Kevin. Anything over 3,000 words is considered big. Anything over 4,000 might mess up the threads.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 11, 2004.

Churhc of Christ tends to teac that after the lasrt Apostle died, Miraculpus gifts coud not be transfered. After the death of the last pwerson to be given a MiraCULOUS GIFT BYT HE APOSTLED DIED, mIRACLES CEASED.

I disagree.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), May 11, 2004.

I was about to say Zarove, aren't you a COCer?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 11, 2004.

My answers: 1) speaking real tongues(languages)-yes. Acts speaks of real languages. 2)Not for salvation 3)N/A today 4)Absolete 5)It was meant to convey the good news to others who did not speak Aramaic. Does why Paul taks about interpreters in I Corinthians.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 11, 2004.

Well, I think I understand the CoC position well enough now. I find this odd, though. The reason I asked is because I met someone whose views seem to be very similar to what I know about CoC beliefs. However, he said that he disagrees with them on speaking in tongues, saying that in his experience with CoC churches, they "spoke in tongues" at every service or nearly so, like Pentecostal churches. I was confused because I thought I remembered reading Kevin's view that these gifts ceased with the apostles (cessationist view). This man who I talked with described himself as "fundamentalist Baptist," but his main deference from them is that he does not believe in OSAS.

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), May 11, 2004.

I would still like to hear everyone's views tho... :)

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), May 11, 2004.

Answers to first four questions:
1. Yes
2. No
3. Still in effect
4. Holy Spirit gives gifts to whomever he pleases

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 11, 2004.

I grw up chruhc of christ, bit don't accept tal the teachings of the Chruhc of christ.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), May 11, 2004.

We had a thread for the charasmatic gifts, but I don't know if it is still there. If you a basic case for the extinction I'll do it there.

" I thik speakign in ARounges was meant for peopel to be able to communicate with foigners. Liek if you went to France and didn't speak French yet suddenly understood it and could. or if you went to chin and had an instance ability to speak and understand Chinese. its prupose os to convey the message f the Lord." - Zarove

Someone once told me that the best way to test someone's "gift" of tongues was simply to ask which language he/she spoke. I don't mean to knock Pentecostals, but many, if not most of them hold to the belief that what they utter cannot be understood by any person anywhere. "It is the language of angels." When someone in a church is charged with sexual misconduct, the community takes a negative perception on the entire church. When Pentecostals make 20/20 , rolling around on the floor and riding the chandeliers.... ehhhh

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), May 11, 2004.

I had always understood the "gift of tongues" as being true functional language for the purpose of facilitating the spread of the "Word." It was a gift given to the apostles at Pentecost for the purpose of transcending language barriers.

I have never seen anyone do it in person. I did see tel-evangelist Robert Tilton demonstrate it many times on TV, which made me distrust the phenomenon. (For those who don't know, Tilton is recognised by many as a bit of a charletan) I have since learned that many sincere Christians have the experience including charasmatic Catholics.

I don't think incomprehensible "tongues" as experienced by many is like the original "pentecostal gift." I believe St. Paul found this form of "tongues" to be good, but at the same time an occational problem when it interfered with services.

Seems to be more of a personal ecstatic state. I think its harmless and perhaps wonderfully moving for those who experience it. Its a good thing if it strengthens faith and brings a person closer to God.

Its very foreign to me; I'd be quite alarmed if I ever started doing it.

-- JimFurst (furst@flash.net), May 11, 2004.

Here is what I believe concerning Speaking in Tongues.

Three Questions about Speaking in Tongues

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), May 11, 2004.

Ah! Robert Tilton. He was rather entertaining as I would watch his shows on t.v.. I could flip channels between wrestling and Tilton. It became clear which show was fake. Those wrestlers really did bleed, no kidding!

.............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 11, 2004.

As Kevin has shown:

Speaking in "Tongues" is 100% fake today.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 13, 2004.

At the very least, it doesn't serve the original functional purpose. That is, if my understanding of "speaking in tongues" is correct.

-- JimFurst (furst@flash.net), May 13, 2004.

Elpidio,

If tongues is fake, then so is your prophecy you claim to be given from God.

Ian,

Your more familiar with Elpidio's prophecies; Maybe you can give us a little reminder.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 13, 2004.

Like Kevin said about what Paul wrote in I Corinthians, David: Tongues will pass away, prophecy will pass away...

But I say to you today, David Ortiz: From AD 70-to 1903 no one spoke in tongues.

Even if they do now, don't you think that the spirit will tell them to get together as one, by that I mean : Catholic Charismatics, assemblies of God, Pentecostal assemblies, Church of God in Christ, Vinyard fellowship, Calvary Chapel,...over 5000 groups.

If all of them claim the same spirit, then the spirit lies if he keeps them separated still as he does now. The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Truth. So he cannot be the spirit of lies and separation. He is not a spirit of division. Yet, all who claim him are the most divided group in history!!!!!

As for prophecy....well, the number of prophetic dreams has been there, even before there was a church!!!

The number of people throughout the Christian Era who have become prophets or prophetic have been enormous. I am just one of many. Examples: Joan Darc (D'Arc), Sister Lucia, Tyndale, Peter Waldo, Wycliff, John Husinac (Huss), ....to name a few. Some were willing to die rather than suppress the truth. Many were burned and their ashes thrown into rivers to erase their memories.

Prophecy will be one of the the last things to die. The last thing to die will be hope.

My name is Hope in Greek David.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 13, 2004.

From your Church's home page, David O. O can see I hit the nail at the right spot, where it truly hurts:

16 Fundamental Truths of the Assemblies of God These are nonnegotiable tenets of faith that all Assemblies of God churches adhere to. This list is derived from the official Statement of Fundamental Truths. View the full Statement of Fundamental Truths in English or in Spanish. Click on any truth below to see the complete original statement with scriptures.

WE BELIEVE...The Scriptures are Inspired by God and declare His design and plan for mankind.

WE BELIEVE...There is only One True God–revealed in three persons...Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (commonly known as the Trinity).

WE BELIEVE...In the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. As God's son Jesus was both human and divine.

WE BELIEVE...though originally good, Man Willingly Fell to Sin– ushering evil and death, both physical and spiritual, into the world.

WE BELIEVE...Every Person Can Have Restored Fellowship with God Through 'Salvation' (accepting Christ's offer of forgiveness for sin). [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G]

WE BELIEVE...and practice two ordinances—(1) Water Baptism by Immersion after repenting of one's sins and receiving Christ's gift of salvation, and (2) Holy Communion (the Lord's Supper) as a symbolic remembrance of Christ's suffering and death for our salvation.

WE BELIEVE...the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a Special Experience Following Salvation that empowers believers for witnessing and effective service, just as it did in New Testament times. [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G]

Taken from Assemblies of God page.

Your church originated in downtown Los Angeles, about 2 miles from my job, at a place known as Azuza St, now part of Little Tokio.

Yours became the White Church.

The Christian Yahwist.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 13, 2004.

I Worship Yahweh, the God of our Lord Jesus Christ.

A true caring God.

The Christian Yahwist

The Man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 13, 2004.

The Assemblies of God was started as a result of some church campers began speaking in tongues.

................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 13, 2004.

How was it that "incoprehensible" speaking in tongues came about? What is the basis for it? What is its purpose? Is it just a "me" thing,...a personal ecstatic phenomenon?

Not throwing stones at those who consider it an extremely important part of their faith, just trying to fathom it. Based soley on my individual experence, "tongues" has never been anything more to me than the NT description of the "functional" gift given at pentecost, and a suspected device used by less than credible tel-evangelists.

For those who believe in the sacredness of "tongues," the above is simply a reflection of my lack of personal experience, along with my inate skeptical tendencies .

-- JimFurst (furst@flash.net), May 13, 2004.

.....incomprehensible..... (above)

-- JimFurst (furst@flash.net), May 13, 2004.

Xenolangia or something like that, I forget.

I have the same understanding that you have, Jim, about speaking in tongues. The Apostles suddenly had the ability to speak in languages familiar to their audience, but never before part of their own languaage skills. Somewhere things got "twisted". I'm gonna get ad homminim(ed) for the following. I think that centuries later, the Fundamental movement caught wind of the speaking in tongues. They figured that the only way to be saved was via "rebirth" or "born again" events. The only other physical proof of "rebirth" was to emulate what Scriptures teach--speaking in tongues. But, they got one part wrong--Kevin will say they got the whole thing wrong--about the languages. Some believe that the language is from far away Heaven, not from far away lands like Greece or the Antartic. So, they speak in indecipherable ease. They also start to tremble, shake, convulse, and shimmy. I don't believe the Apostles ever experience such acrobatics. So, something is not quite "kosher" with today's version of speaking in tongues. I could be right.

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 13, 2004.

I'm glad you didn't type "incoprohensible", root word being copro. That was close; I'm glad we didn't type anything like that. 8)

..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 13, 2004.

Where did you find this word, Rod? It is grammatically correct in Greek and latin. Though I read glosson for tongues in Greek.

I think David is reasearchin gthe origins of his Church, Rod.

Let's start gong back in history,...backwards... Jimmy Swaggart,...PTL ......Black and White Split...Azusa early days of the 20th century.

By the way, Rod. No prophecy by those there that God wanted to speak in tongues again after 1830 years later.

Poor young man, they lied to him , too.

But David is young. He has time to catch up. Once he starts taking Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic, he will be better than me.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 14, 2004.

Do you mean the word copro?

I did a study on human deviant sexual practices. You don't want to know what that word means. I was trying to find answers to the assertion made by homosexuals that a person is born with homosexual or heterosexual preprogramming. I disagree. That's another thread.

.........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 14, 2004.

Xenolangia, Rod.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 14, 2004.

Xenolangia

I can't remember where I stumbled across it, but it dealt with the Pentecostal doctrine. There was a debate about the requirement of having the Holy Spirit indwell directly after baptism. There seemed to be some controversy about Pentecostal leaders not having the gift of speaking in tongues, yet being leaders of their congregations.

Xenolangia was the ability to speak strange or unknown (xeno) languages (langia). But, I think this really meant foreign languages, not extraterrestial unknown languages. I'm having a hard time trying to remember the exact term, but I think it may be Xenolangia

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 14, 2004.

Most people do not understand the difference between the baptism of the holy spirit and the gift of speaking in tongues. The gift of speaking in tongues is for the church, when you are assembled together and God gives a person a message to edify, exhort, the church body. It is important that there must be an interpreter there, somebody that has the gift of interpretation. But, if you have the gift of tongues you should pray for the interpretation ,otherwise keep quiet, because it will cause confusion. When you become a christian you are baptised into Jesus body by the Holy Spirit, but when you are baptised in the Holy Spirit Jesus is the one that baptises you in the Spirit. When this occurs the initial evidence is speaking in an unknown tongue. This is your personal prayer language that is referred to in Romans chapter 8 ,groanings ie. If this is not for today why is the pentecostal movement the largest growing one today. Could it be that the church needs power for the endtimes? Everybody that says it died with the apostles hasn't got a clue. They have decided that it don't fit their religiousity then it isn't of God . Praise God for the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

-- vernon kingsbury (skwitz0315@yahoo.com), August 25, 2004.

now that i've said that earlier, i'll say speaking in tongues is a good thing. It is for building you up in your most holy faith: Jude 20 . It is not necessary for salvation as the Jesus only's will tell you. Salvation is a free gift, there is nothing you can do to earn or work for it.Praying in the spirit is for power or ability to do what Jesus has called us to do. Do soldiers go to war without weapons? It is most definitely for today. Praying in tongues should be something that is second nature, you should do it without ceasing. As I explained earlier, it is to build you up in your most holy faith. There is no need for interpretation of your prayer language God understands and Satan doesn't.

-- vernon kingsbury (skwitz0315@yahoo.com), September 01, 2004.

speaking in tongues. another error was there speaking in tongues YES, Is there speaking in tongues today NO. Speaking in tongues today is not needed. It was for a purpose. It was a sign gift to the Jews, for the Samaritans and for the gentiles. John the Baptist, NEVER spoke another tongue, but was Filled with the HOLY spirit from his MOTHERS womb. tongues were never sought, they came naturally, by the way if it doesnt come that way, its isnt a gift. No one labored for the spirit. The tongues have been very sorely misinterpetted. When one claims to speak in tongues and is Roman Catholic, then it says point blank, they are not for today, god does not give false religions gifts. Plus God is no dummy, he knows our own language, we dont have to sound like blubbering idiots to speak to him. that is not scriptural either, no where does he say it is a method of speaking to him or a requirement to get to him in a more special manner. NO WHERE. This is a false doctrine. I have the infilling of the HOLY Spirit. Funny when god knows how much I love him ( and his son) he would not naturally give me that gift, without seeking it, he KEEPS nothing else from Me. this is too ridiculous for words. but go ahead and do it, it makes em question your disecernment tho, it is not a good wittness to me.

-- Beverly O'Day (Baogeo69@aol.com), September 27, 2004.