am from lesotho,a boy of 18 yrs of age. why do we pass our pray via mary?why do we have to pray standing in front of her idol?does this mean if we dont consider Mary in our prayers our way to heaven will be more narrower? as a roman catholic boy i just wanna be clear,plzzz

-- nako letsie (buna7@webmail.co.za), May 08, 2004

Answers

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-- (bump@bump.bump), May 08, 2004.

You have received some serious misinformation. First, it is impossible to pray in front of an idol of Mary because there is no such thing as an idol of Mary. There are statues and pictures of Mary, but they are not idols, for no-one in their right mind worships or prays to a statue or picture. Do you have pictures of your family? Are they idols? Do you worship them? Hopefully not. But, do you sometimes stand before them and look at them while thinking about the actual person represented? Same with Mary or the other saints. They are members of our family because we are all children of the same Father, and we all have Jesus Christ as the first of many brothers.

We do not "pass prayers via Mary". Do you ask members of your family to pray for you? So do we. When you ask members of your family or members of your church to pray for you, are you "passing your prayers through them"? Neither are we.

If you are a Catholic boy, you are a very confused one. Get yourself a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and find out what being Catholic means.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), May 08, 2004.

Hello Nako,

Paul M. has explained very well the truth about our relationship to the Blessed Virgin.

It may help to always remember that being a Catholic Christian is all about loving, serving, and knowing Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

The sacraments are all about love and grace.

Asking Mary and the saints to pray for us as we would ask other Christians to pray for us is part of this unity of love in Jesus Christ. Others may try to confuse you and this truth may get lost in the discussion.

I will continue to pray for you and your journey in the faith. Please continue to ask questions so we, your borthers and sisters in Christ, can help explain the truth about our faith. Ask the Holy Spirit to guide you in truth.

God bless you.

In Christ's love,

Andy S.

-- Andy S ("aszmere@earthlink.net"), May 08, 2004.

No, there actually is not a difference, because Jesus said "everyone who lives and believes in Me will NEVER DIE" (John 11:26). Therefore we ask BOTH the saints in heaven AND our contemporary earthly brothers and sisters for prayers of intercession, for the same reason - because they are alive! And because they care about us and our spiritual welfare. The only real difference is that when we ask fellow earthly sinners to pray for us, we can't be certain they will do so. They may forget, or they may not be sincere. But when we ask the saints in heaven to pray for us, we know with certainty that they will, because the Word of God says they do (Rev 5:8).

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), May 08, 2004.

We are not allowed to try to get INFORMATION from the dead. You know, seances and such.

-- mark advent (adventm5477@earthlink.net), May 08, 2004.

Way back in the pagan days of the roman empire pagan worshipers prayed to statues of Diana and such. Do you think they thought that was really Diana or just a symbol of her?

Nah, nothing new under the sun.

-- elstupido (you@dontdeserveit.com), May 08, 2004.

elstupido-

What is "it"?

-- mark advent (adventm5477@earthlink.net), May 08, 2004.

Given the occult practices with which "consulting the dead" is listed here, it should be immediately obvious to any thinking person that these passages have no relevance whatsoever to Christian prayer of intercession. ALL of these occult practices, including spiritism and necromancy, are expressly forbidden by the Catholic Church today, just as they were in Old Testament times and in Apostolic times. As for "consulting the dead on behalf of the living", first of all, we do not "consult" the saints. A consultation involves seeking information. Secondly, the saints are not "the dead". They are the living, as stated by Jesus Christ Himself. It was because the early Church's profound belief in this promise of Christ that they referred to those who passed on as having "fallen asleep", not as "dead"; and it was also because of their acceptance of this divine teaching that they continued to ask prayer of those who had fallen asleep, just as they had asked those same people for prayer of intercession during the earthly portion of their lives.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), May 08, 2004.

"it" is obviuosly something you're not getting. Can you answer the question I asked?

P.S. "it" may also just be my email,eh?

-- elstupido (you@dontdeserveit.com), May 09, 2004.

I once heard an atheist ask a question along the same lines.

"What's the difference between a Christian praying to Jesus and a pagan praying to Zeus?"

I think you make a good point (and so does the atheist). I take it that your question was "How is a pagan praying before a statue of Diana any different than a Catholic praying before a statue of Mary?"

1. The obvious answer to your question is that Diana doesn't exist.

2. The next answer is that Mary is not thought of as a goddess and the Catholic does not worship Mary. We ask her to pray for us.

Besides, no one prays "to" a statue, the statue is merely a reminder, like a photo is a reminder. Paul covered this quite well in his posts.

-- Andy S ("aszmere@earthlink.net"), May 09, 2004.

Here is my concern:

The Saints are in Heaven. The Saints intercede for us. Why would the Saints know of our suffering and sins if Heaven is a place of eternal life and (presumably) eternal bliss? I've asked this a long time ago. Is there crying in Heaven?

...................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 09, 2004.

Rod,

You are trying to understand God with a "human mind". This won't work on any day. Pray and trust in His Sacraments.

God wants you to have the two young ones baptised and this works every day! God is great.

Mother Seton pray for us.

-- - (David@excite.com), May 09, 2004.

Rod,

Does not God grieve when we sin against Him?

Also, Luke 15:10 (NAB) says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents."

If the angels have joy over repentance, perhaps they grieve over sin as well? This is a good question to think about. I found several passages about tears (here in NIV).

Is. 25:8 he will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove the disgrace of his people from all the earth. The LORD has spoken.

Rev. 7:15 And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore, "they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them. 16 Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat. 17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

Rev. 2:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." 5 He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."

Rod, this is a good point, and I had always thought that there would be no more tears in heaven at all. But it appears that this will occur at the end of time, when God makes the new heavens and new earth. So perhaps while we still live on the present earth, since there is sorrow and pain and tears, the angels and saints in heaven also feel that pain and sorrow over our sins. What do you think?

God bless,

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), May 09, 2004.

Rod, I forgot to add that I guess if there will be no more sinning in the new heavens and new earth, then there would be no need for tears. Although I do wonder how we cannot be sorrowful for those who must spend eternity in hell. I guess that's justice. But it's still sad.

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), May 09, 2004.

I think you've hit on a fine point, Emily. "The end of [everything]". In the meantime, I suppose that tears will fall until every soul has had their hour. Then, Heaven shall truly be the blissful place everyone imagines.

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.co), May 10, 2004.

David

"You are trying to understand God with a "human mind". "- David.

I tried to understand God with my "divine mind", but it kind of short circuited, what can I say?? (Just kidding, David.)

.............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 10, 2004.

Nako

Please go here to find out about why we use the intercession of Mary and the saints

-- Andrew (andyhbk96@hotmail.com), May 10, 2004.

elstupido- Yes, I am asking about the "it" in your e-mail address. Is it a message for this thread only?

-- mark advent (adventm5477@earthlink.net), May 10, 2004.