Elpidio: Can You Elaborate on "Henotheism"?

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Henotheism- recognising the existence of a supreme but not unique god.

Consider this verse:

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me...Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them."[Exod. 20.3]

I sense that this has much to do with Ebionite theology.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 03, 2004

Answers

Elpidio has made some issues regarding Ebionite theology.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 03, 2004.


Rod, Yahweh worship was forced into the Israelites.

There was an insertion made where God says that he was known as El Shadday to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and by implication Joseph.

Moses states that God now gives him a new name: Yahweh.

A name by which God, El Shadday, would be known.

Since El Shadday was honored by Cannanites under that name, by using Yahweh, he was able to define true worship.

He improved in the saying: I believe in God (I don't care who he is).

To mean now: I believe in Yahweh (The one the creator).

This Yaweh belief did not succeed until 240 years later around 1010 BC King David centralized Yahweh worship. he was the first to use God's name in proper names: His son Solomon was really Yedidiyahu.

So, in conclusion: there has to be a unique God out there (The ever existing ever creating), Yahweh.

The christian yahwist

The man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 04, 2004.


Elpidio

the Holy Ghost, where does He sit in yr theology - briefly.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), May 04, 2004.


My study has exposed the idea that Judaism was not a united religion as we may have previously thought. There was still the paganism problem. I suppose you mean that Yahwism was "forced" in order to subside the wave of paganism, which still proved problematic during the Exodus.

So, Exod. 20.3 is not a literal allusion to multiple gods, but a warning to those who follow [false] gods who don't exist. Or, are the Jews making that claim that many gods exist?(based on Exod. 20.3)

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 04, 2004.


Hi Rod,

I believe that very early on, most of the peoples who would eventually become known as Jews, were henotheistic. They accepted the presence of other gods but were instructed to worship only one, Yhwh. "Thou shall have no "other" gods before me."

Pure monotheism was a later development.

-- JimFurst (furst@flash.net), May 04, 2004.



I beleive the Jews where Monotheists, initially, then gradually fell bakc into idolatry.Just as the BNible says.

The reaosn I beelive this is simple. I trust the Bible, and don't always trust modern schoalrs. After all, they once said the Bibel as clealry mythical becau it mentioned the Hittites.Later, the Hittites where confirmed.

As o the " No other gods" before me, I think hat only is an acknowledgemnt o the pracitce, not an acknoledgement of the existance of other gods.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), May 04, 2004.


Well, it was that Monotheism that polarized the masses. Elpidio said it; Yahwism was "forced" and all other "isms" were condemned, in all actuallity. The only way to bring all other "isms" into one group is to inevitably make heretics of those un-orthodox believers. The struggles I encounter deal with determining whether early religion was a "political" movement or a "sacred" movement that would bring the masses to one common group. It then seems as if politics and religion were one and the same during that early time.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 04, 2004.


Could be Zarove,

I'm no expert, but perhaps by the time these people were actually called Jews, they were Monotheist. As Israelites, it seems they may have been several tribes with conflicting theological backgrounds. They became "Jews" after they became strongly associated with Judea. THis happended surprizingly more so after the Asyrian and Babylonian deportations. In the diaspora, they were of Judea and became known as Jews. It would seem that monotheism would be more of an evolution, away from earlier pagan polytheism that was so prevalent. Henotheism would be a step in the monotheistic direction.

Rod, I think politics, religious practice, folk tales, epochs and historical recollection were all important to the development of the Tanakh. The stories/epochs defined this group as a people. Gave them unity. The purely "religious" flavor/interpretation of the OT developed over time. Midrashic interpretation would be a step in this direction.

Just my thoughts based on bits and pieces I picked up here and there. I don't have the patience and single mindedness to research from original texts.

-- JimFurst (furst@flash.net), May 04, 2004.


I must surrender to the reality that our lives do not permit the alloted time to piece together all of the history and understanding needed to bring all truths under one nutshell. But, that we can become "nuts" in the process.

I think that knowing pre-Judaism will set the path to understanding Judaism and Christianity with reliability. The Jews walked with Christ, so why didn't some convert to His path of Salvation? That has puzzled me for so long...

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 04, 2004.


Some did, until the Romans came and destoryed Jerusaelem in 70 AD most Christains where Jewish, of the chruhc if Jerusalem, and most Jewish Chrristians where killed in the war.

This is why Gentiles got to be the greater number.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), May 05, 2004.



Unsurprisingly, Jews considered Gentiles as being similar to Pagans.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 05, 2004.


Ian,

Jesus received the Holy Spirit during his baptism by JOhn the Baptist. See Mark 1. Mark is our oldest Gospel, not Matthew as Pius X tried to make us believe. (Remember the Spirit coming in the form of a dove. See John 1 for reference.)

If the Spirit of God comes to Jesus here on Earth, then, Ian, the Spirit is not Jesus.

If that is the case, the filioque belief then is not true.

Also, another proof Jesus wasn't Yahweh our God.

The Christian Yahwist

The man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 05, 2004.


Rod, I think you and Jim are going in the right direction.

Jim said it best Jews, were henotheistic. They accepted the presence of other gods but were instructed to worship only one, Yhwh. "Thou shall have no "other" gods before me."

Pure monotheism was a later development.

The case is that even til David's time, Saul's son was named Yeruba'al (worshipper of Baal).

El was still very common at the end of names.

David's reign changed all that. The Yahu ending prevailed.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 05, 2004.


thanks Elpidio, just trying to understand you.

now, the Holy Ghost came to Our Lord -- was he sent by God the FAther.

is he an emmissary, an angel, literally a messenger (dove), or what?

you say that there is only Yahweh, so EXACTLY WHAT do you believe the Holy Ghost to be?

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), May 05, 2004.


Ian, I distiguish between: A) God as a a Holy spirit B) The power emanating from his being .

for A: God is like the Sun: a self renewable source of light (That's how I saw him). In Hebrew he is ruach(Spirit) ha kodesh (the Holy).

For B: God gives his energy to you, that is, baptism or anointing by the Holy Spirit. (felt it 3 times).

No, you don't speak in tongues(languages) which people don't understand. I call it mumbo jambo or gibberish speech.

Instead, you feel a shaking throughout your body, like when you go from a cold place into a warm place. This shivering is so strong you cannot open not even your eyes. Your eyes sense a strong light.Lasts about 10-20 seconds.

This is what Jesus experienced at the mountain when his clothes shone light the sun.

This is what Moses experienced after talking to Yahweh on Mount Sinai.

Was the dove the Holy Spirit? No.

It was asign for John the baptist that that was God's anointed man.

Acts calls the shining wind (tongues of fire). ruach(Hebrew)=pneuma in Greek means both wind and Spirit.

So those men there had there bodies shining when God let the power of his spirit come to them.

The Christian Yahwist

The Man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 05, 2004.



This link Rod, shows examples of Hebrew Henotheism.

Hebrew Henotheism

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 06, 2004.


Well, that's an eye opener. It seems we've all been right on track about the early Jews. That's if the link provides good and accurate information. It sounds believable.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 06, 2004.


The writer known as the Yahwist by scholars, seems in my opinion to have written around the time of Salomon.

He began to input Yahweh's name into the first books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Nubers, Leviticus, Deuteronmy, Joshua, Judges, Samuel).

El, El Shaddai, El Roi,... went from being a God to being a title or adjective.

In the Sinai it was El Yah (God Yah )See this link. Click on Yah. Then on oldest name for God.

Oldest name for God

later became

Yahweh Elohim (Yahweh the God of Gods).

Yahweh is common in names from 1000 BC and 400 BC.

The Christian Yahwist

The Man of Yahweh The Man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 06, 2004.


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