Exactly Why Become A Nun??

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I know that someone here in this forum wishes to become a nun.
My question:
Why?

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 01, 2004

Answers

Rod,
There is only 3 girls that post in this forum. Faith is not Roman Catholic...

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 01, 2004.

Should I post a link to my source?
...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 01, 2004.

The reason I ask??
I once had the desire to become a priest. I was young and very Catholic in my youth.
...................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 01, 2004.

Let me guess who....this is a though one....um, Emily wants to become a nun?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 01, 2004.

Actually, I thought it was Kevin. But, now that you mention it......ugh.....yes, Emily.
.........................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 01, 2004.

The nuns who I've met and spoken with are very humble, hard working, and faithful. They have always given me the feeling of peace, joy, and hope. These people are at the bottom of the rung and surely in God's eye.
.....................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 01, 2004.

And there are also Atheists, and Moslems, and Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses, etc, like what you described, Are they "surely in God's eye" ??

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 01, 2004.

Well, they could be in His side like a thorn, but I'm sure that God keeps an eye on even you and I , David.
.......................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 01, 2004.

While I cannot give an answer for why anyone individual would become a nun, I can give a few ideas based on Scripture. It is a way of serving God without being bound by the constraints imposed by marriage. For example, Jesus said in Matthew 19:29,
"And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[1] or children or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life."
Also, Paul says in 1 Corinthians 7:34:
"An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit."
Each of us have a vocation which we are called to, some are called to live in a religious community and take a vow of celibacy. Others are called to live in the world as married or single individuals. The most important reason why someone would become a nun is to follow in the vocation in which they have been called by God. We are all responsible for following in the vocation that God calls us too and using wisely the gifts that he has given us.

-- James (stinkcat_14@hotmail.com), May 01, 2004.

Here is a question for David. In the Bible it says that "by their fruits you shall know them" in telling how to discern who is a true believer. One of the criticisms of Mother Teresa is that an Athiest could have done what she has done (of course, they never give any examples). Here is my question: What is the fruit that Mother Teresa didn't have that would have convinced you that she is a true believer?

-- James (stinkcat_14@hotmail.com), May 01, 2004.

Wolves in sheep's clothing rod...

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 01, 2004.

Yes, James, I've also mulled over Luke 9:23-27. Kevin and I did have a discussion over being obedient to such an extreme. Some can do it while others cannot. I'm talking about becoming a nun, priest, or some kind of clergy. Inevitably, we must put God first in our lives. I've always viewed such actions as a compromise for not going full throttle into the priesthood, but that's just me.
.......................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 01, 2004.

Rod, I think the more appropriate question would be "why not [become a nun]?"
David, how did you ever guess it was me? lol :) Besides the fact that Faith and Gail have both said that they are married...
To find out more about what I've said on this at the Catholic forum, check here, my third post.
Basically, it would allow me the freedom to literally serve God with my entire life, not focusing on the cares of the world that concern married people, as explained in the verse James posted from 1 Cor. 7. I wish to be of service to those in need, and I see the sisterhood as a wonderful means by which to do so. I could serve as a "mother" to those who have none and a help and support for those who need it, without the additional concerns of caring for my own husband and children.
As for becoming a nun as opposed to remaining single, I would much prefer the former. I believe it will better equip me for the type of service that I would like to do, working and fellowshipping with a community of women for the glory of God. At this point, I plan to pursue this for my future because I believe this is what God is calling me to. I could be wrong, and it may not be my calling, but I will be led by God to what I need to do at the right time. I am still in college right now, and I plan to finish that unless God prevents me from doing so. Nonetheless, I must pursue whatever it is that I believe God is calling me to do with my life.
Sadly, there are many orders of nuns in the USA these days that are going contrary to the Catholic Church's teachings, such as by advocating abortion, contraception, and women's ordination. These causes are clearly evil according to Catholic teaching, and for this reason Pope John Paul II authorized a second organization for orders of nuns in the USA that agrees with all of the Catholic Church's teachings. This organization can be found here: CMSWR, and reading their section on ""Theology of Religious Life", especially the page about the Sancti ty of Human Life will show you how their stance agrees with Catholic teaching.
As for Biblical reasons... I will make another post, so it's not too large.

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), May 01, 2004.

Matthew 19 (NAB)
10 [His] disciples said to him, "If that is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry."
11 He answered, "Not all can accept [this] word, but only those to whom that is granted.
12 Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it."
The early Church in Acts 2 (KJV) describes what sounds an aweful lot like the life of nuns:
44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Finally, in 1 Cor. 7, Paul addresses married women and virgins
8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.
9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

We see here that marriage has its purpose, as does remaining unmarried.
17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
Here we see that God has called everyone to a certain way that they should follow in their lives. Don't resist God's calling on your life!
32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: 33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife. 34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 38 So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better. 39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. 40 But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.
A nun in the Bible: (Luke 2)
36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.
God bless,

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), May 01, 2004.

David, sorry about the multiple posts. Please delete the first with Bible verses that have all the bolds. Thanks.

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), May 01, 2004.

hmm...
rod,
I wonder, (with my 3 month leave for boot camp), If you'll ever catch up to me in the stats.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 01, 2004.

David,
Moslems, and Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in Jesus Christ. I'm sure you know that. They do not believe that Christ is God the Son. They do not believe that he was crucified, died, was buried and was resurrected from the dead.
It is a pity that you apparently can see no difference between the Catholic faith and that of JW's and Mormons. You cannot be convinced by us. You cannot be convinced by our Catechism. You cannot be convinced by the Church fathers. You cannot be convinced by the Creed that is recited at every single mass encapsulating what Catholics believe.
Congratulations, Emily. Your youth and your zeal encourage me beyond words.
Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), May 01, 2004.

If Whoopie can be a nun, I have confidence in you Emily.

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), May 01, 2004.

Gail, thank you for the compliment. Your faith and zeal for Truth is an encouragement to me too :)
Luke said: If Whoopie can be a nun, I have confidence in you Emily.
LOL! Thanks, Luke :) Just for the record, that movie's depiction of nuns was NOT realistic. Nonetheless, it was funny.

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), May 01, 2004.

David
If you would like for me to post under your name, I'll do it so as not to exceed your stats. But, I warn you; your name will take on a different character. I'm not sure that you will like that. Which reminds me.....
I could start posting as "Lard of The Dark"....just kidding, Zarove. Your handle did get me a little nervous. I started with visions of "Lord of The Rings" and stuff.
Oh yeah.....don't get too argumentative with those Catholics at bootcamp, David. You made need their assistance later.

Emily
Interesting.
..................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 01, 2004.

No, you can post under whatever name you want. You still are beating me by like a 100 posts technically, because about 1176 of my posts are the Daily verses. But your lead should go down after I fix more threads :-D

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 01, 2004.

Chihuahuas!!
It doesn't matter how careful I am; I always make some ridiculous mistake in my posts. I should start typing with my toes.
..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 01, 2004.

But, David.......you haven't counted all of my posts under my different names.
..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 01, 2004.

Is it true, David?
The poster with the highest number of posts in this forum will win an all expenses paid trip to Shamrock, Texas? The winner will be treated to dinner under their water tower. Second place winners will get to come home via moped and flapping cards in the spokes. Third place winners (losers) will visit the beautiful Tammy Fae Baker mansion, home of the Perpetual Tear Fountain and Spa. All other contestants will remain in front of their computers fixing long lost threads.
..................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 01, 2004.

Yep.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 01, 2004.

its amazing how people can purport to follow the Bible yet turn to scorn or humour when discussing amongst the greatest of personal sacrifices - Holy Orders.
Rod has it so right, the nun is the most humble of vocations. our nuns teach, nurse, and pursue so many other fundamentally important routes in life. they give their lives. but they sit in the queue along with Joe Schmo and Julia Schmuk when it comes to Mass and reception of the Eucharist.
this kind of devotion is super-human. you can joke about it; you can be profane; bit it doesn't change the fact that most of us are simply not devoted enough to take on that challenge.
if that is Emily's calling, than i admire her greatly. i live near a Carthusian house and I am just so appalled by my own lack of committment when i understand their devotion. i have been to the house on a number of ocassions, but i struggle to get closer to the life they lead. i have read about it -- and it just scares me, quite literally. this love for Christ that we can only imagine.
i have known many Holy nuns in my time and i have never ceased to be amazed by their compassion for their neighbour, their love for Christ, their devotion to the Blessed Virgin,....., and on goes the list.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), May 01, 2004.

David, Moslems, and Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in Jesus Christ. I'm sure you know that. They do not believe that Christ is God the Son. They do not believe that he was crucified, died, was buried and was resurrected from the dead. -Gail
Gail, Mormons do, in fact, beleive Jesus was Cricified, was dead, and rose again, and do beleive he was the Messiah,as is evident form Mormon writings.
Indeed, the two major branches of Mormonism, and all minor branches, beelive firmly in jesus Christ as the Saviour, as I will illustrate below.
First, the Articles fo Fait, written By Joseph smith.
1 WE believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam�s transgression.
3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all bmankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and aordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by eimmersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of chands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7 We believe in the agift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, evisions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul�We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to gendure all things. If there is anything hvirtuous, ilovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

The chuhc if Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints lists this on its website as well, concernign Jesus.
Watch a video Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is Heavenly Father�s Only Begotten Son in the flesh. He is our Redeemer. Through Jesus Christ, Heavenly Father has provided a way for all people to become like Him and return to live with Him forever. We love Christ. We worship Christ. He is our example and our Savior.
View comments from a Church leader Who is Jesus Christ?
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He was the Creator, He is our Savior, and He will be our Judge. Under the direction of our Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ created the earth (John 1:10; Hebrews 1:2).
When Jesus lived on the earth (approximately 2,000 years ago), He led a perfect life. He taught by word and example how people should live in love of God and others.
Through His suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane and by giving His life on the cross�that is, by performing the Atonement�Jesus Christ saves us from our sins (1 Peter 2:21) as we follow Him. Because of the Atonement, you can be forgiven of your sins when you sincerely repent (Book of Mormon, Mosiah 26:30).
Through His Resurrection, Jesus Christ saved us from death. Because He overcame death, we will all be given the gift of resurrection (Acts 24:15; 1 Corinthians 15:22). When life on this earth is over, Jesus Christ will be the final Judge (Acts 17:31; John 5:21�22; Acts 10:42).
Mormon beelive Jesus was born of the Virgin mary, and was crificied for the redemption of sin, and ressurected.
Also, form the RLDS, or reorginised Chruch of jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, now called the Community of Christ.
Our Basic Beliefs We are an international Christian church with 250,000 members found in more than fifty nations. Our World Headquarters, including a Temple dedicated to the pursuit of peace, is located in Independence, Missouri. The church was organized in 1830 in New York State. Our History
Our Mission
We proclaim Jesus Christ and promote communities of joy, hope, love, and peace.
We Offer...
a community of people where the gospel of Jesus Christ is the focus of worship, learning, caring, and mission.
an opportunity for genuine spiritual growth and relationship with the Holy Spirit.
local congregations where deep friendships are established, individual ideas are valued, and where those special needs find security, care, and support.
a faith community that encourages the ministry of all people, including children and youth.
a global community with a worldwide mission that values all cultures and celebrates the rich diversity of human life.
meaningful opportunities to serve Jesus Christ by helping others and promoting peace.
Our Faith and Beliefs
Recognizing that the perception of truth is always qualified by human nature and experience, there is no official church creed that must be accepted by all members. However, through the years various statements, such as those listed below, have been developed to present the generally accepted beliefs of the church. All people are encouraged to study the scriptures, to participate in the life and mission of the church, and to examine their own experiences as they grow in understanding and response to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
God
The one eternal, living God is triune: one God in three persons. The God who meets us in the testimony of Israel is the same God who meets us in Jesus Christ, and who indwells creation as the Holy Spirit. God is the Eternal Creator, the source of love, life, and truth. God actively loves and cares for each person. All things that exist owe their being to God who alone is worthy of our worship.
Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ is "God with us," the Son of God, and the living expression of God in the flesh. Jesus Christ lived, was crucified, died, and rose again. The nature, love, and purpose of God are most clearly seen in Jesus Christ, our Savior.
Spirit
The Holy Spirit is the continuing presence of God in the world. The Spirit works in our minds and hearts through intelligence, comfort, guidance, love, and power to sustain, inspire, and remake us.
Salvation
God loves us even though we are sinful. Through the ministry of Christ and the presence of the Holy Spirit, we are able to turn to God and receive the gifts of salvation and eternal life. Those who accept the gospel are called to respond to Christ through baptism and committed discipleship. As individuals exercise faith in Christ and follow his example and teachings, they become new people.
The Church
Christian discipleship is most fully possible when it is pursued in a community of committed believers. The church, as part of the body of Christ, is the means through which the ministry of Christ continues in the world today. It is a community of people seeking to bring God's love to all through compassionate ministry, worship, the sacraments, and witness.
Revelation
The process through which God reveals divine will and love is called revelation. God continues to reveal today as in the past. God is revealed to us through scripture, the faith community, prayer, nature, and in human history.
Scripture
The scriptures provide divine guidance and inspired insight for life when responsibly interpreted and faithfully applied. With other Christians, we affirm the Bible as scripture for the church. In our tradition, the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants are additional scriptural witnesses of God�s love and Christ�s ministry.
Sacraments
The sacraments express the continuing presence of Christ through the church. They help us establish and continually renew our relationship with God. Through them we establish or reaffirm our covenant with God in response to God's grace. The sacraments of the church are baptism, confirmation of membership, the Lord's Supper (Communion), marriage, blessing of children, administration to the sick, ordination to the priesthood, and the evangelist's blessing.
Human Worth
God loves each of us equally and unconditionally. All persons have great worth and should be respected as creations of God with basic human rights. The willingness to love and accept others is essential to faithfulness to the gospel of Christ.
All Are Called
All men, women, youth, and children are given gifts and abilities to enhance life and to become involved in Christ's mission. Some are called to particular responsibility as ordained ministers (priesthood) in the church. The church provides for a wide range of priesthood ministries through calling and ordination of both men and women.
Free Agency
All people are free to choose, resulting in real consequences of good and evil to our lives, the lives of others, and our environment. Commitment to Christ, sensitivity to the Holy Spirit, and participation in the faith community help people make responsible choices that enhance human life and respect creation.
Stewardship
All things were created by God and should be used for God�s purposes. Stewardship is the wise management of gifts and resources to enrich personal, family, congregational, and community life, as well as utilizing natural resources for the good of all creation.
The Kingdom
God's kingdom is present wherever people acknowledge the lordship of God over life, relationships, and creation. The full coming of the kingdom awaits the final victory over evil when divine rule is established and justice, peace, and righteousness prevail.
Zion
The "cause of Zion" expresses our commitment to pursuing God's kingdom through the establishment of Christ-centered communities in families, congregations, neighborhoods, cities, and throughout the world.
Peace
Because of our commitment to Christ and belief in the worth of all people and the value of community building, we dedicate our lives to the pursuit of peace and justice for all people.
Resurrection
God conserves and renews life as revealed in the resurrection of Jesus Christ, a sign of God's ultimate victory over death. In Christ�s resurrection, we find hope and courage for living. Through resurrection, God transforms individuals, bringing them into the fullness of eternal life.
Judgment
Our eternal destiny is determined by God according to divine wisdom and love and according to our response to God's call to us. God's judgment is just and is based on the kind of people we have become in relation to the potential of our lives.
End Time
God is acting in history to reconcile all creation to divine purpose. The meaning and end to which history moves is revealed in Christ. The ultimate victory of righteousness and peace over injustice, evil, and sin is assured because of the unfailing love of God and the conviction that Christ is coming again.
You are invited to continue exploring the mission, faith, and beliefs of the church by visiting one of our local congregations. Countless people have found hope for their lives and encountered the living Christ through the ministries, sacraments, teachings, and mission of the church.
Please contact Missionary Ministries for information regarding the congregation nearest you or if you have questions or would like to receive additional information about the church. A minister is available online to answer questions Sunday evenings from 9 to 10 p.m. central time on our PathFinder website.
Moslems do not beelive Jesus was crficified, however, I do beleive Jehova's wtinesses likewise adhere to that basic tenet.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), May 01, 2004.

the vocation that calls upon a life of SELFLESS, UNLIMITED, UNEQUIVOCAL, UTTER devotion to Our Lord is unparallelled in the protestant life-style, so far as i know. prove me wrong. but to dilute this message with pointless meanderings about the Osmonds proves that point.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), May 01, 2004.

Zarove,
Your post is too long, be careful, you might mess up the thread.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 01, 2004.

Sorry. Was jut trying to prove soemthing, as I dislike misinfomation. I do not belive in Mormonism, but I do beleie in honest reresentation.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), May 01, 2004.

Ian, to be fair, Orthodox and Anglican also have nuns, monks, and priests.

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), May 01, 2004.

Emily
i was aware that there were Orthodox Orders, in fact as far as i know the bishops are chosen from the monks.
as for the Anglicans, that is news to me, but more power to their elbow.
i cannot express my awe at those people who make this kind of sacrifice for Our Lord.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), May 02, 2004.

Ian,
I thank you for your kindness and respect. You said: the vocation that calls upon a life of SELFLESS, UNLIMITED, UNEQUIVOCAL, UTTER devotion to Our Lord and people who make this kind of sacrifice for Our Lord.
While religious vocations do involve sacrifice, it is not something entirely unbearable. In fact, in some ways I do not see it as a sacrifice at all -- rather it is a strong desire for me, a longing. I can think of nothing better, nothing I would rather have in this world than to be the bride of my Lord Jesus, in such an intimate way as to be a nun. I am eager to receive the Eucharist, because this is our Lord Jesus Christ we're talking about!
This verse has always awed me, that Paul would be able to get to that point in his faith. This is what I long to be like:
Acts 20:24 (NIV) However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me--the task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace.
However, my selfishness as of yet continues to inhibit this. We sang a song in church this morning called "Knowing You" that speaks so perfectly to how I feel. This is the point I want to reach.
All I once held dear, built my life upon
All this world reveres, and wars to own
All I once thought gain I have counted loss
Spent and worthless now, compared to this
Knowing you, Jesus . . .
See this site for more (the song is beautiful): All I Once Held Dear
Well, for all my uncertainty about the future, God continues to confirm this as my calling I believe. Last night when I went to mass (I have been going for awhile) and this is the first time they said anything about this as far as I remember. The priest talked about the shortage of religious vocations and how he's praying that God will call people, and he encouraged all young people to consider whether this is their calling. So then in church this morning (I go to an Episcopal church on Sunday mornings) we sang that song and it became real to me. And I longed to know Christ more deeply and fully. Then after church I saw on the bulletin board a picture of a nun. It has been there for awhile, but I had never really noticed it before or made the connection to realize it was a nun. It was for Episcopal sisters, but nonetheless it reminded me of this calling again. And all of this after I had just told you folks the other day that I don't know about the future, and God may call me to something else. LOL. Well I can never say I know the future, but God is still God and I know that He showed me these things for a reason. However, Ian, I hardly think it is a sacrifice. To me, to pursue anything other than being a nun would be the sacrifice. God bless,

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), May 02, 2004.

Sorry, I think I was supposed to include this about that song:
(Knowing you) Graham Kendrick Copyright � 1993 Make Way Music

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), May 02, 2004.

Emily you are still too young to be a nun. Young people in their 20s are still too naive about the world, God,...too optimistic, and too idealistic.
Rod and I wanted to be priests.
Look at us now. He was married and remarried. The Church (Catholic) now closes the door on him even though he still thinks, dreams,...
I saw the Bible, the other books(not selected), other Holy Books (Mormon, Koran,...), had dreams...
I am now married (by a Baptist minister)and a Christian Yahwist, sort of Judaism meets Saint Paul along the way to Damascus.
I also felt called by God(Yahweh) and Jesus on one night, July 23, 2000 first to preach to Protestants and Catholics. I started posting in Catholic places by January 2001.In the Ask Jesus by October 2003.
There was also a prophecy about no strong rain by Jesus in the San Bernardino-Los Angeles area for 3 years. This came true by November 2003.
By July 2002 I was told I would found a Church. My mother said that to me in January of that same year. She had a dream about it. So did my wife 3 times also in 2002.
This year, 2004, I finally broke from Catholicism (Roman).
People like Rod or Jim that know me from before noticed I changed my closing signature.
I am now the Yahwist, the Man of Yahweh.
I had already chosen a name: The Way, the Church of Yahweh in Christ Jesus, a church open for everyone.
Unless Emily you get a dream telling you you will serve humanity in that unmarried lifestyle like mother Theresa, don't be a nun.
My wife wanted to be a nun.
I sense there will be 2 children in your life.
The Christian Yahwist
The Man of Yahweh
This came true already this year. The number of posts in the Catholic Form matches my numbers in the I ask Jesus.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 06, 2004.

"Young people in their 20s are still too naive about the world, God,...too optimistic, and too idealistic. "-Elpidio
But, imagine where we would be had we followed through with that innocents of youth, Elpidio. I've met both types of priests--joyful and jaded. And, look at us now. We are both at the doorway of the Church with one foot in and one foot out. Look at the heaviest foot, is it entering or exiting?
Which is the greater of regrets?
1. becoming a priest and having to leave the priesthood.
2. never becoming a priest and realizing that such a door will never open again.
..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 06, 2004.

Well, Rod.
Neither. I believe , like the poet said: I have traveled the roda less traveled by, and that has made a difference.
My only sadness is that I felt called by God to take Roman Catholicism in the right path to greatness. Instead, my descendants and I will bury Roman catholicism in the next 100 years.
It pains me to go against the Church I loved so much.
I don't know how much you loved your first wife, Rod, but this divorce for me, really has affected me.
It is like taking your wife to court, no holds barred, where you seek custody, and much more.
Even if you win, you ask yourself, what if...
Then you realize there is no turning back.
I tried to keep a foot in. Ed seems to have pushed it out in a nice way.
Elpidio, you said, �I have never used obscene, hard, or any similar type of language with anyone in this forum.� Your conduct here has been exemplary. You have indeed always been courteous and respectful of others. That is not the issue I have with you.
You said, �A learned Catholic must always be able to engage others in what they believe.� This is where you and I begin to part ways with respect to what this forum was created for and what it can do for Catholics and non-Catholics who visit here.
Elpidio, the purpose of this forum is NOT to engage in debate of the Catholic faith.
�The purpose of this forum is to provide Catholics with an opportunity for discussions that will contribute to the deepening of our knowledge and the strengthening our faith; and secondarily, to provide non-Catholics an opportunity to ask sincere questions about the beliefs and practices of Catholicism, in a courteous Christian atmosphere.� (from Rules of the Forum)
Elpidio, you say, �I do engage only people with a good Catholic background...� then I must caution you that �engagement� in debate of our Faith is not the purpose of this forum. This sort of participation is not in keeping with the rules of our Forum. Too often those who do not belong to the Catholic Faith, or disagree with elements of it, come to this forum with the �expressed� purpose of �engaging� regulars here in debate about our Faith. Everyone who visits here must be made to understand, we are not here to debate our Faith. We are here to answer any questions Catholics or non- Catholics might have about our Faith. In answering certain questions, undoubtedly more questions arise that need to be addressed and this is permissible in the interest of enlightenment. However, for someone to continue to argue against our beliefs or proselytize their own beliefs, or beliefs not held by the Catholic Church, weeks and months on end, is NOT permitted.
If someone is genuinely interested in �engaging� Catholics in debate about their faith then they should seek out apologetic sites that have been designed for that purpose. Recently I�ve had to ask a few individuals to leave the forum for this reason. They had their own personal agenda and did not come to the forum with the genuine interest of learning more about why Catholics believe what they do. They came with a mission to convert or change the minds of as many Catholics as they could. In the end, because their motives became all too obvious over time, they were asked to leave.
I ask all those who visit here to be respectful of our beliefs. We do not wish to �defend or debate� the tenets of our Faith. This forum was not designed for that. It was designed to explain why Catholics believe what they do. At the end of the day, if anyone does not agree with what we believe that is their prerogative, however, rather than stand and debate the issues we would prefer if they moved on and attempted to convey their convictions elsewhere, perhaps in a venue better-suited for that purpose.
There are a few individuals who are here at present that resist complying with our wishes and continue to debate and criticize our Faith. This has been going on for months now. Their good behavior is what has been preventing anyone from asking them to leave, but their incessant efforts to persuade Catholics to change their minds about certain Catholic beliefs is wearing our patience thin. They are slowly wearing their welcome out.
I would again implore everyone to read the �Rules of the Forum� to understand this is a Catholic site, not a Catholic apologetics site. There is a difference. Debate or engagement in the interest of informing others of our Faith is permitted however, continued debate, engagement or argument for the purposes of disproving what we believe in, is not. If someone doesn�t agree with what believe, so be it, but if, after a few weeks, an individual remains obstinate and adamant that what we believe is not in keeping with what he/she feels is the Truth, then we are not interested in continuing that debate. At this point, we would ask they please move on and allow us to continue to inform those who come here with the genuine interest of learning more about out Catholic Faith.
-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), April 30, 2004.
This in response to Good John Gecik including in 4 (bannablehorses of the apocalypse): Similarly ignored were my many pleas for the banning of each member of a group of ex-Catholics who had peppered the forum -- for months or years on end -- with errors that had to be refuted over and over again. One of these four "defectors" from the true Church had become a forumite of "vintage 1999," yet was still occasionally visiting in 2003, fighting our devotion to Our Lady and the saints, and trying to plant seeds of doubt in our minds. Another (vintage 2002) is now an atheist who tries to spread moral relativism galore. Another (also vintage 2002) is now an Arian who defends contraception, tries to convince us that Jesus is not divine, and talks about his imagined private revelations. The last (vintage 2003) is now an ultra-liberal Episcopalian who defends homosexual activity and has an obvious mission to bash the president of the United States. Each of these "lost souls" once had a right to follow the forum's rules by asking respectful questions about Catholicism and by presenting their own contrary beliefs for discussion and refutation. But no respectable forum would ever allow these four people the leeway that they have received -- namely, anywhere from several months to several years of attacking and proselytizing.
It should be obvious, from the above narrative, that being here became a mounting strain on me throughout 2002 and 2003, due to the failure of moderators to ban those who so clearly deserved, and so urgently needed (for their spiritual good), to be banned. These bannings would have been analogous to the medicinal act of excommunication from the Church. -- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 21, 2004.
I had responded to John accusing me of being an arrian. The Jehovah's witnesses are the modern Arrians!!!
Not me.
See ThreadIs Ed doing away the "male opinion" in forum???
The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 06, 2004.

Rod,
My reply on banning and Arrianism to John Gecik on the same thread.
Is Ed doing away the "male opinion" in forum???
As one of John's 11 banable people, I have to add the following (which I even onc wrote to him privately into his e-mail): I don't engage new-Catholics (Leon,Gail,....as much...), never discuss marriage and divorce with those requesting that type of question.
I do engage only people with a good Catholic background on theological issues.
On Theology: divinity of Jesus, Mary,...only John Gecik (good feed back, and Eugene Chavez-he cares for my salvation mainly.
On Christian Trivia: Paul M, Paul H, Abraham (I stopped with him because I felt he wasn't stable enough), Frank, Marilu.
On dreams: Eugene Chavez ,Rod (sometimes Paul H), and David@excite.
I found discussions with John Gecik thought provoking. I realize he was becoming frustrated because he had failed to refute my arguments, contray to what Eugene has said. I call it a draw. more than 700 of his posts (10%) were directed at me.
A learned Catholic must always be able to engage others in what they believe.
I have never used obscene,hard, or any similar type of language with anyone in this forum.
I am a teacher of mathematics.
Not only that. I also completed degrees in math, Spanish literature, religous studies (with former Jesuits), economics, and Mexican American studies.
I also worked for the Catholic Church in many positions. The Church was good to me. What I believe now was the result of years studying the scriptures in Hebrew, Attic Gree, Koine Greek, and Western Aramaic.
Aramaic Examples: Gabra=man so Gabriel means man of God. Gabriel as a name appears only in the Aramaic work of Daniel before it appears in Luke ch 1. Matthew doesn't even mention it. Neither do John or Mark.
Though is true that Hebrew and Aramaic don't make a distiction between brothers (real) and cousins, we are always told who they are by context. Greek has a word for cousin. It is never used in the gospels or letters of Paul to refer to Jesus brothers.
Even though Satan now refers to the Evil one, originally it meant adversary or opponent. In Job, it is the accusing angel.
Gehenna (Gehinnom) = Valley of Sons of Hinnom is jsut a place south of Jerusalem. Yet, people identify it with a burning Hell.
I can go on... but I quit here now.
What I found made me understand God Yahweh's purpose better.
I can tell John has been reading whatever I have written of late. I only engage political posts now. I left after a while when John G. requested I leave in May 2003. I have almost quit posting here. I have been called all kinds of names.
Many of my posts have either been deleted because the moderator didn't like them, or because John G. told them to do it.
Yet, Frank, Paul M, or Ed never have ever received a complaint from me.
And no: I am not an Arrian. Arrians believed in the virgin birth. They believed that Jesus was in the beginning with God. Yet, there was a time he was not in the beginning.
I am a Christian Yahwist (A Pauline-Jamesian Ebionite Hybrid).
The Man of Yahweh.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), April 29, 2004.
Rod, you know that I believe in open mindedness.
If I have a Church like the Roman Catholic Church, I dn't want sheep.
Even my students know that.
The Christian Yahwist.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 06, 2004.

I have always had an almost romantic attachment to the idea of nuns. I may not be very objective. I had a very positive experience with them as a youngster. I've always felt sorry that they seem to be disappearing. So many will not have the advantage of having been taught by them or even having known any. I admit that I liked the idea that Emily is considering this vocation, but all romantic feelings aside, it is a tremendously big commitment. I never thought about it at the time, but many of the nuns I had were actually in their 20's. Maybe only 15 years older than me. There were older nuns, but many were quite young. I have often wondered lately what has become of them. Have they stayed nuns? I did run into my second grade phonics teacher when I was in college. She was still a Sister of Notre Dame de Namur. She looked pretty much the same because she was only about 40. These are different times. I wonder, but doubt that the respect for nuns is still as strong as it was in my youth. Without that respect, I think it would be harder to maintain the embrace of such a difficult lifestyle. But still, Rod makes a good point about how long the door stays open. Would it be better never to go through because it might be a mistake?

-- JimFurst (furst@flash.net), May 06, 2004.

Sorry Elpidio,
I must have been typing at the same time as you. My meandering "nun" post makes more sense just under Rod's.
By the way, I really don't think there is much opposition to you at the Catholic forum. Just a few. Hope you continue to post there.

-- Jim Furst (furst@flash.net), May 06, 2004.

Elpidio,
One should never follow anything unless God is calling them to it. If you do anything else other than what God calls you to, that will be where the regret comes in. I plan to live my life according to whatever God calls me to do.
Elpidio said: Unless Emily you get a dream telling you you will serve humanity in that unmarried lifestyle like mother Theresa, don't be a nun.
I do not agree with your theology that one must have a dream to hear from God. However, to appease your apprehensions, I will share that I did have a dream. It was not exactly as you described it, and I was young (early teens perhaps). I woke up in the middle of the night and wrote it all down because for some reason I thought it was important. It was very impacting at the time. Well the paper I wrote it on is at home somewhere buried, and I am far away in my college dorm. So we will have to rely on my limited memory.
Basically, all I remember is that there was a woman in my dream, and I think she was homeless. Somehow I helped her, I think by inviting her into my house or something. I only recently realized the significance of that dream, so I will have to dig up the paper and read it again this summer to see what else was there. Anyway, throughout my life I have always wanted to help people in some way, but I wasn't quite sure how it would pan out. I mean if I had my own family (the unspoken calling of every good Protestant girl) and all, how could I do both all the time?
I was raised Protestant and recently decided that I want to become Catholic, after an extensive process of searching. Thus, the idea of becoming a nun is new to me, but the concept is something that I have been trying to figure out how to deal with all throughout my teenage years. Only now does it all make sense. (I used to think the Catholic Church was wrong and hence would've never considered becoming a nun.)
Elpidio, please tell me exactly how wanting to become a nun is too idealistic?
God bless, and guide you to the Truth. I will pray for you Elpidio.

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), May 06, 2004.

Jim furst,
do you remember Fatima's 3rd secret? Angelo Sodano on Fatima's Third Secret
According to Cardinal Sodano, taken from this previous site: According to the interpretation of the "little shepherds", which was also recently confirmed by Sister Lucia, the "Bishop clothed in white" who prays for all the faithful is the Pope. As he makes his way with great effort towards the Cross amid the corpses of those who were martyred (Bishops, priests, men and women religious and many lay persons), he too falls to the ground, apparently dead, under a burst of gunfire.
See this site for text:The Third Secret of Fatima
Excerpt: and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions...
Could Fatima then turned out to be true?
The Christian yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 06, 2004.

Jim,
There is a 3 year trial period, from what I understand, and I think the amount of time varies depending on the order. This is to make sure that people feel right about making this commitment.
God bless,

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), May 06, 2004.

Emily,
good that you mentioned the dream.
You have a mission to help others. Still, you don't know.
It doesn't bother me you will become Catholic.
For years I tried to bring my family into the Catholic Church. While I was there, I failed.
Now, my sister is a minister of the eucharist.
She also prays for me.
So thanks for your prayers, Emily.
One of the other ministers of the eucharist is an old friend of the family.
He told me, that as a young man he dreamed the dead needed someone to help them die reconciled to God.
So now he helps in the funerals. He gave the sermon after my father's death, my brother in law,...
The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 06, 2004.

I literally could not speak more than a few words to anyone for two months after that day, Elpidio. It is so coincidental that you mention these things. My good friend emailed me asking--rather showing--me what my life is like now. I have a Christian wife and my children believe in God. My children can tell you the Salvation plan Christ gave us.
Which should I have regretted?
1. having her leave me.
2. not having the life I have now with God as our "Light".
.......................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 06, 2004.

Rod,
speaking of the past... #1, well you went as far as God allowed you too. So no regrets there anymore.
But leaving a "family" now you really will regret.
Tough, tough,tough,...
The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 06, 2004.

Jim said: it is a tremendously big commitment in reference to becoming a nun.
Jim, so is marriage. Would you or others express the same level of reservation to someone who said they were considering marriage? I doubt it. This is a more common phenomenon these days, but being common does not necessarily mean it is always wise. Many things in life involve difficult choices and big commitments.

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), May 06, 2004.

Jim,
maybe some people still care for me.
Most of the old are gone.
Only Eugene, Frank, Sunshine, ...are left from the old days.
Only you, Rod, John P,... from the new.
Bill has taken John Gecik's place. He is in a neo-conservative mission.
1/3 of the threads are his since February.
That is why I engaged him when he tried to insinuate that educators like Rod and me were worse than child molesting priests. The Christian yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 06, 2004.

I'm not worthy to be mentioned with the likes of "The Old Ones" or the "New Ones". I'm more like the guy waiting in line to use the copiers. All of the attention is on the one working the copier.
...or the guy running the copier,
or the guy who changes the toner,
or the guy who takes account of the number of copies made, or......well, never mind.
...............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 07, 2004.

oops put the "breaks" intead.
.........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 07, 2004.

I have thought about becoming a nun for a while now but none of my friends like the idea. they say it isn't for me but i don't know what to do

-- gaia (buddytheelf@yahoo.com), December 12, 2004.

Pray gaia. Pray hard for God's guidance and that you will do his will. Read about nuns and the saints who have been nuns. It's not an easy life, but very rewarding for those who follow the call. My guess is that there are holy and faithful women who are nuns that can help you determine whether you have been called or not.
Depending on where you live, there are nuns who have an "open house" so you can learn more about them without any commitment. You're friends may be right, or they may be wrong. The important thing is to follow God's will for you.

-- Andy S ("ask333204@yahoo.com"), December 12, 2004.

Can't a woman be concerned about the Lord's affairs, even celibacy, without staying in a religious community?

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), December 12, 2004.

Luke says:
"Can't a woman be concerned about the Lord's affairs, even celibacy, without staying in a religious community?"
Certainly. Now of course, she may also choose to be within a religious community as well.

-- James (stinkcat_14@hotmail.com), December 12, 2004.

"Can't a woman be concerned about the Lord's affairs, even celibacy, without staying in a religious community?"
A: Of course she can, if that is what God is calling her to. But if God is calling her to live her life fully dedicated to Him in religious community, she will never be happy or fulfilled anywhere else.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 12, 2004.

Dear Gaia,
I am so excited to hear that you are considering the sisterhood! I am also. Here are some excellent sites for congregations of nuns/sisters that are faithful to Church teaching:
http://www.cmswr.org/
http://www.religiouslife.com/
Please feel free to email me if you would like to talk about this more. I know of another group you could join online for women who are discerning a vocation if you are interested. So let me know if I can help. God bless you!

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com"), December 12, 2004.

Luke, yes a woman could do that. But another option is to live in community with other women who have the same calling. As a Protestant I felt a longing to do something like that, some kind of ministry, but I also longed for a community, a network of support to serve alongside me. I did not believe in being a nun at the time so it just confused me as to what exactly my calling could be. I remember (as a Protestant) telling a baffled Calvinist (Protestant) friend that I wished Protestants had nuns.
"No [wo]man is an island" as they say.... I can think of no better way for me to serve the Lord with my entire life than to join the sisterhood. I addressed this issue some at the beginning of this thread, so I encourage you to scroll up and read it if you're interested. Read about the early church in Acts, how they sold all their possessions and gave to the poor - what modern comparison is there to that besides the religious life? I can think of no better way to not have to remain concerned about possessions and other such things than this. God bless you!

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com"), December 12, 2004.

Gaia, if you are still around and would like to talk about this please send me an email. I tried to send you one but it returned undeliverable. God bless,

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com"), December 15, 2004.

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