Does God Hate Anyone?greenspun.com : LUSENET : Ask Jesus : One Thread |
Yes!Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"
Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."
Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."
Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), April 24, 2004
David,Yahweh our God hates sin. *Yahweh comes from the verb to be, to become. Thus He causes(or will cause) to be or to become. Meaning: the ever creator. (Jehovah uses the words meanining destruction in Hebrew. Hova means destruction. Thus meanning he will destroy. It comes from the use of the vowels of Adonay in Hebrew by purists who don't want to say God's name).
Yahweh hated the sin of David for taking bathsheba from Uriah the Hittite. Yet, he chose David's seed: Jesus, to be the one to show us the way to salvation.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), January 27, 2004.
Am I gonna have to take a sabbatical from school and home in order to do some research on the term "hate" as used in the Scriptures to mean "reject" or "deny" and not the angry human syndrome that people think of? .............................
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), January 27, 2004.
Jesus used to say, Rod, Luk 14:26 If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
It seems here Jesus means by hate to love them more than him.
The christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), January 28, 2004.
After the week I had and the week I'm having now, I know too well the meaning of "hate". I have quite a handful of people who "hate" me right now. A word to wise:
If you set out to do the right thing against a higher power than you, you best be prepared to suffer all evil things against you. I prayed, but now I have tribulations. Things will pass. My name is "Mud".
.................................
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), January 28, 2004.
Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED. - Romans 9:13 -- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), January 31, 2004
I think the above from Romans can also be understood as Elpidio described, using Luke 14:26. Its almost colloquial. It doesn't mean that God literally hated Esau. More likely, he preferred Jacob.
-- JimFurst (furst@flash.net), February 01, 2004.
David why don't you tell us what you think "hate" means.
i hate cheese, except for the tasteless Italian cheeses so long as they are cooked. i would not, however, try to procure the complete destruction of cheeses around the world, were i the world's most powerful man.
i just hate it in the sense that i decline to eat it because i do not like its taste.
there aren't really many things, apart from that, that i could say i "hate".
so what is hate? what is it to you?
and to God?
would God be indifferent to, or joyous at, the murder of someone with "Haughty eyes", or "a lying tongue", or with "hands that shed innocent blood", or with a "heart that devises wicked plans", or with "feet that run rapidly to evil", or a "false witness who utters lies", or "one who spreads strife among brothers".
-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 01, 2004.
Those who love God are usually hated by others. Some of the posts I have contributed to in the Catholic Forum have been deleted.
Everyone knows I don't curse or insult anyone directly.
They were deleted in such a nice way. Even the attack from another poster was deleted so as to make it I never existed. The posts show a different view than the received one by Catholics.
This was the way the Jewish leaders dealt with Jesus. They deleted him from their writings.
This is another form of hate.
My fear is that if Catholics rose again as a power they might delete us all from ever existing like they did so many others in the past.
The only reason we know about Peter Valdo, Wycliff, Luther, Huss,.. is because their works were preserved by courageous followers. Many of whom paid a dear price.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 02, 2004.
Elpidio, please note that you are comparing yourself to Our Lord.
fyi, Our Lord worked miracles. greater still, he humiliated Himself in a way that must have had even greater effect on those around Him. His message must have seemed so poisonous to the beaurocrats, but so uplifting to the suffering. those that mocked him were truly unkind people.
you, on the other hand, spent a not insignificant period revealing and re-writing fairly distasteful dreams about the Pope's death, and trying to resurrect whatever heresy (Nestorianism, Arianism) you belong to.
there is a world of difference between what Our Lord did on earth and what you did over on the Catholic site.
furthermore, i doubt very, very much that anyone on the Catholic site "hates" you.
-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 02, 2004.
"My fear is that if Catholics rose again as a power they might delete us all from ever existing like they did so many others in the past." like who?!?!?!?!
Nestorius?
you made the allegation. stand by it -- or retract it, pls.
-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 02, 2004.
Ian, Jesus made several prophecies many of his contemporaries never were able to verify.
-Jesus prophesied the destruction of the Temple. This happened 40 years later. By that time Peter, Paul, James, ...Joseph Caiaphas, ...were dead.
-Jesus prophesied that the woman who anointed him will be always remembered. This happened at least 30-40 years later when the Mark included her.
-Jesus prophesied the total destruction of Jereusalem. It happened 40 years later.
-Jesus prophesied that his Gospel will reach the whole world (Matthew 28). Still hasn't. Chinese, Hindus, Thais, Japanese,... still are not Christians.
-Jesus prophesied he was coming soon- he hasn't.
- Jesus prophesied there will be antichrists. The first one, Cerinthus came around 110 AD.
-Jesus prophesied they will see the Son Of Man sitting at the right hand of God. None of us has seen him there yet (except for for half of it in my dream on July 23, 2000.)
-There is a prophecy in revelation of Jesus reigning 1000 years. It hasn't happened.
Those that came true in his time: -He was going to be crucified - he was going to be betrayed - Peter's denial
Ian, will you then say Jesus was a liar since many of his prophecies were not fulfilled during his lifetime?
If Jesus said, Ian, only the Father knows the day and the hour, how can you 100% claim Jesus is God?
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 02, 2004.
"Jesus made several prophecies many of his contemporaries never were able to verify." you predicted the death of the Pope last year. you got i wrong. since then, you have been re-writing the dream.
i, as your contemporary witness, attest that you got it 100% wrong.n (does that make you a false prophet?!?!)
anyways: you say: "My fear is that if Catholics rose again as a power they might delete us all from ever existing like they did so many others in the past."
pls retract or justify this statement.
-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 03, 2004.
as you did with Our Lord, Elpidio, please provide us with a list of your own "prophesies". if you have performed "miracles", please also list these.
in the alternative, pls substantiate your view that:
"My fear is that if Catholics rose again as a power they might delete us all from ever existing like they did so many others in the past."
OR please retract it.
i will consider it de facto retracted unless you respond.
-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 03, 2004.
Fisrt Question: on Catholic Intolerance Examples where catholics exterminated others who were not Catholic
France: Massacre of saint bartholomew in the 1500s. Protestants were exterminated. There were no Protestants in France until the 19th century.
Spain: After the Spanish civil War where Mussolini and Hitler supported Franco, Franco with the help of the Church eliminated all traces of not only communists but Protestants and others.
Spain 1492 and also in the 1600s: expulsion of Jews and Muslims, marranos and Muslims who had coverted to catholicism.
There were no Protestants or Jews in Spanish America until past the 1850s.
The Man of Yahweh.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 04, 2004.
Second Question: The one you still have not answered about Jesus: Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
The reason you can't is because you don't know and can't.
The Man of Yahweh
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 04, 2004.
-Mets winning game 6 and series against red Sox in 1986 by an error -Dodgers winning game 2 by a shutout and series agains Athletics -Panama invasion(1989) -OJ Simpson found not guilt of Killing Nicole -Mexicans elections 1994 and 2000 won by same percentage -Clinton betrayed by bodyguards -Israeli and Palestinian conflict getting worse -Invasion of Afganistan -Bush winning 2000 elections -US taking Iraq in 3 weeks -...... Of these the Presidents: Bill Clinton George Bush have copies.
and The Pope Joh Paul II and the Patriarch of antioch, Moran Mar Ignatius Iwas
The Man of yahweh
I don't hide
Ian
The Pope has not yet made trip #7
The Man of Yahweh
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 04, 2004.
Elpidio 1/ Fisrt Question: on Catholic Intolerance ie in terms of your anti Catholic bigotry
history is not always what it seems.
eg the Nazis were not defeated because the Americans (as important a contribution as they did make) entered the war. they were defeated because they attacked Russia, and kept going at Russia even though it was a suicide mission, and in doing so committed 80% of their troops on the Eastern Front.
eg: Alexander the Great was a rabid barbarian and homosexual, not the character that you will see Colin Farfrell portray in the forthcoming movie
eg Churchill was an alcoholic who was pretty rascist, and very intolerant -- the face of democracy. i wonder.
eg (slightly different tack) whilst Hollywood leads you to believe that "men like John Wayne" always fought on the right side, well, they didn't. we are all human, Elpidio.
further clue: history cannot be turned into soundbites; the Church is not always the same as the state; context is important; and so on
2/ Second Question: The one you still have not answered about Jesus:
Expliquez, SVP.
3/ Mets winning game 6 and ....
a/ are you telling me you also do sporting predictions?!?!?! OK. give me a prediction. i will have a small wager to test you out. if it works, i will gradually invest further. you must be a billionaire!!!! who will win the next US Masters? Tiger? sone outsider (please, please have a dream that it is won by an unknown,.....)
more seriously, you are twisting and wriggling and re-writing. by your account, the Pope should be dead by now. THAT'S BEEN PROVEN ALREADY.
to explain this to you: "i dreamt the earth was flat. shucks, i misunderstood the dream, waht i meant was that it was cylindrical. shucks again, spherical,....., yes, spherical, that's what i dreamt,..., yes,,,, i am a phrophet,...., phew,..."
PS is it going to rain tomorrow? i was planning to take my boys for a walk, but maybe i shouldn't. might it snow. do you think you could come over and stop the snow?
who do you think you are kidding, Elpidio?
-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 04, 2004.
You still couldn't answer that Jesus prediction, Ian about those not tasting death before these things will happen. You cannot answer it? You never will? You cannot prove it? Your apocalyptic understanding is still flawed. But that's OK.
At age 24 I began to hear voices in my dreams that told me what things that would come true. - Most of the things I wrote fit this category.
I also go into an extreme danger trance: I may see some one and then all of a sudden say: Watch out, some one is going to kill you, or I better see this person because I won't see he/him again. -So far 29 this way. Many of those were my students. So students at my school already know me for this. (John Bosco who lived 100 years ago also had them. John Paul II tried to fulfill one of his visions when he laid down a new Eucharistic service).
The Pope, my mother, and Bush are the first 3 I dream either dying or getting shot.
I also have premonitions: words just come out of my lips. They happen.
I also have retro dreams: where I dream the past of other people. By talking to them I have confirmed the veracity of the dream.
I have also day visions. Those are rare.
I am not allowed to bet. I am not allowed to curse people. I cannot cure ilnesses.
Last one: About the super bowl this past Sunday: one of my students said: who is going to win? I said , if the Panthers are winning at half time, they will win. They were losing. They lost.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 04, 2004.
Elpidio have you told a doctor about any of this?
-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 04, 2004.
..or better still, a psychologist trained in dream interpretation. you might find that these dreams are about you.
eg scientists have discovered that the brains does all sorts of things. part of it does not shut down at night, just keeps analysing.
-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 05, 2004.
You're argument is flawed, Ian. Will you say Paul of Tarsus was a Crazy lunaic for believing his dreams?
After all, he claimed a vision after being thrown from the horse.
He never saw Jesus.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 05, 2004.
first you are comapring yourself you Our Lord. then St Paul.
Yuri Geller can bend spoons. Jesus never did. is Uri Geller better than Jesus? are you like Yuri Geller? he is best friends with Whacko Jacko. he talks a continuous stream of nothing. he may as well be an astrologer.
let me just say this: most dreams are fantasies, or borne out of fear. that is what i know about it.
fantasy: hitting the home run at the biggest game ever. all that erotic stuff with the cutest girl you know, or your best friend's mother (not me, btw, but common). fear: being chased and being unable to run away. getting caught with yr bst friend's mom.
that's sort of how we all have dreamt at some point or another.
and these dreams are invariably speaking about the dreamer.
instead, you dream about the Pope being killed or President Bush being killed. that does sound odd. maybe you have a power. however, when it proves to be uuntrue, you embellish it or change it. "whne i said Bush would die, i meant politically,..when i said the Pope would diea after 2 more trips, i meant 6 more trips."
these are the kind of crazy things you are saying. andthey are in very bad taste.
you have been proven to be INCORRECT, Elpidio. you have lost your credibility. full stop. you are exposed.
you can try to redeem yourself, but you will not do that by re- writing old dreams.
remember also the effect of hindsight. when you find out something, you think you knew it all around. truth is, you saw it as but one outcome. you didn't KNOW it was going to happen. you THOUGHT it MIGHT happem. do you think this might have influenced you?
i am sorry, Elpidio.
PS St Paul -- its in Scripture, it has been believed for 2000 years, its TRUE, its Divinely Inspired. do you disagree?
anyways, St Paul had witnesses!!! "Now the men who went in company with him, stood amazed, hearing indeed a voice, but seeing no man."
-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 05, 2004.
Paul was not 100% believed in his lifetime by Jesus disciples. Acts tells us that he had to actually do an act of Penance imposed by James, Jesus brother, because people were saying he was an apostate.
Even in his letters, Paul calls the disciples of jesus Pseudo- apostles.
James, in his letter, attacks Paul view of Faith alone.
For us, Paul is our apostle, yet in his lifetime, he was the apostate.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 05, 2004.
"Paul was not 100% believed in his lifetime by Jesus disciples. Acts tells us that he had to actually do an act of Penance imposed by James, Jesus brother, because people were saying he was an apostate. " you are 0% believed because you have been discredited. the Pope is alive. President Bush is alive.
"Even in his letters, Paul calls the disciples of jesus Pseudo- apostles."
at least they believed in the Divinity of Our Lord. you are a heretic.
"James, in his letter, attacks Paul view of Faith alone."
does he now? whythen areyou tying hard to befriend the locals here? against the common enemy? surely Nestorians/Arians would have no truck with Faith Alone?
"For us, Paul is our apostle, yet in his lifetime, he was the apostate. "
Apostate = someone who turns away from Christianity = Nestorian/Arian
-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 05, 2004.
Yes, Ian, he Paul was an Apostate from his religion:Judaism, and from his new religion:The Way. Paul says about the other apostles:
2Cr 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Cr 11:15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
What Paul says of Peter: Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
What James says of Paul(not by name-yet see Romas faith chapter)
Jam 2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar
This is confirmewd by acts when James forces Paul to do penance:
Act 21:20 And when they heard [it], they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
Act 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs.
Act 21:22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
Act 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
Act 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave [their] heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but [that] thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 05, 2004.
fixed...
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), April 24, 2004.
Elpidio,I am aware of those threads you restored. And I did think about posting them so everyone gets credit on the stats page, but the flaw i see is that the person who does this still leaves there IP in the post, and it looks like there impersonating someone.
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), April 24, 2004.
I would like for the stats to stay ok, but it would be such a pain to restore threads again the way you are doing, where as my way I get them in once single post, edit the html. This is not as hard as your way.
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), April 24, 2004.
So delete my comments at the beginning of the post:the first answer.This way the thread runs smooth: delete the other two: the damaged one and the one I restored.
Do you want me to e-mail you the divinity one for you to restore it, or I post it wholly and you fix it?
The Christian Yahwist.
PS:After 7 days delete this comments of mine. from this thhread. The ineternet is not working properly a my school, so I canot sometimes get in.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), April 24, 2004.
post that there elpidio, and I'll fix it. and ok to your last request.
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), April 24, 2004.
Do I post your question first, and in the aswers I post a long one? Or I post a long one in the question?
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), April 24, 2004.
post the question that was asked, and then post the answers. If it is a long thread, try and seperate the answer (It took me like 10 posts just to fix the Once Saved Always Saved thread). I'll fix the html from there.
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), April 24, 2004.
The Christian YahwistCheck the moderator thread
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), April 24, 2004.
you too
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), April 24, 2004.