I am a new Catholic about 3 years now. And I have a question about tradition. What is the tradition our Catholic church speaks of? Is it disipline, holy scriptures, doctrines etc? I know Paul from the NT talks about tradition but isn't he just talking about the same holy scriptures that were later written. First oraly spoken, or a written letter sent by the apostles (because they could not be at certain places at the time to teach so they sent letters of their teachings).

And in time the letters plus the oral teachings were written down and eventuly became holy scripture. So why would anyone object to this tradition if the tradition is holy scripture being "passed" down until it was written and put into one book called "The Bible". Or is there more to divine tradition than just the passing down of scripture?

-- Robert (Noemail@nts.com), April 23, 2004

Answers

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-- The Bumper! (Bump@bumpitybump.bump), April 23, 2004.

there is much more to tradition robert. by the way, welcome to the catholic church. pray and learn and you will find the fullness of God's truth in His church. sacred tradition manifests itself in various forms: papal decrees (dogmatic instruction), certain forms of disciplines (priests being celebate), certain societal traditions which cannot be changed (priests being male). these are just a few of the things that make up the sacred traditions. the Holy Spirit protects sacred tradition in the same way that He has protected (for the most part) the scriptures of the bible.

Sacred tradition is the way in which God is active in the world TODAY at this moment. to say that all religious revelation ended at the bible is to say that God is without power in the world today, and to say that God left us alone to determine moral choices such as cloning, abortion, and other such activities which were not in wide practice at the time of Christ.

today, this very day, God works through the church and provides us through His church (which is called the pillar of truth) the moral ethics and disciplines we need to survive this world in a Godly way. The teachings of the church can't steer you wrong. if all else fails and you're in doubt, crack open that catechism and look it up. if it isnt in the catechism or the bible, you arent required to believe it (the catechism is a constantly updated text which incorporates the majority of sacred tradition). other good sources for truly catholic teaching (ie-- handed down from the vatican) include vatican.va and ewtn.com (ewtn.com is a SUPERB resource).

best wishes, God bless, and if you need any ellaborations please let me know.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), April 23, 2004.

Dear Robert,

If you read the early Fathers (www.catholic.com or read my threads here on New Answers), you will see some of the oral teachings that were passed on. One certainly is the Eucharist being the consecrated host and not a symbol. Then the sacraments, the organization of bishop priest and deacon, and Mary's pivotal role in the Church among others. "Fathers know best" on www.catholic.com will give you a fuller picture. Welcome to the Church!

-- Andrew Staupe (stau0085@umn.edu), April 23, 2004.

Dear Robert: after a hearty congratulation for your coming into the Catholic Church let me express this tought: it is always, or at least very frequent, that people coming from outside the Church have a greater desire to know more about it than those born and raised in the Catholic Faith. An that's a pity for variosus reasons: * our parents and godparents promised the day we were baptized that they were to "educate" us in the Catholic Faith, but seldom it is taken as a very serious promise, that's why we see so many Catholics having a First Communion level of Catholic education. * many of our Parishes are content that we are "prepared" for First Communion, or at least for Confirmation. When a Catholic couple wants to marry they are obliged to assist to "Premarital talks" that last only a few hours and that's it. How can such a couple be ready to really do their job as "Catholic educators" for their children? * The Catholic education given in Catholic schools (run by priests, religious brothers or sisters) is in most cases very shallow, and in many instances stays only in the theoretical level of things without going into a serious study of the Bible, the real problems of moral situations, like sexual education, social conscience (racism, discrimination, rich and poor differences, social injustices, ecumenism, etc. etc.)

I know that this may sound as an unjust generalization, but it would be a good thing to reflect on such problems.

Let me finally say that I'm talking about what I have lived as a Catholic teacher in Mexico (now retired) and thats why we have a "traditional Catholicism" that goes mainly for "popular religiosity" without really going into a serious evangelization. Most Mexicans claim to be Catholics but very few are practicing Catholics. By the way that is one of the reasons that Protestant sects are having such a success in making Catholics abandon the Faith of their fathers and joining them. Again what a pity!!

This could be the case for many a country in Latin America.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), April 25, 2004.

Enrique,

I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying, especially about parents and godparents. In regards to Mexican Catholics, what has masonry contributed to abandonment of the catholic faith?

-- Brian Crane (brian.crane@cranemills.com), April 28, 2004.

Welcome Home, Robert We are honored by your presence among us.

I think it is easier to understand "Tradition," if you first understand the simplicity of the gift that Christ gave us. He didn't give us the Bible, what he gave us was "the Spirit!" The Spirit and twelve men!

It was out of that "Tradition," . . . that humble beginning, that the New Testament Scriptures and everything that we know of our faith, were born. The Bible wasn't the source of Tradition, Tradition was the source of the Bible. The Bible will always be a central part of our tradition, but it will never be the source of it. The source of "Tradition" for our faith, and for all Christians, should always be found, simply, in the Spirit.

Our faith, has always been a faith, led and protected by the Spirit. It is the Spirit who keeps us on the right path. It is the Spirit from whom we derive our foundation. It is the Spirit who keeps us fresh and alive in a way that no other authority ever could. It is our faith in the Spirit which keeps us focused and centered.

To deny this life giving truth, and depend only upon what you can understand from the Bible, is to deny the fullness of the work of the spirit in our church. All you have to do is look at what the variety of fundamentalist Christian faiths have done to "the truth" proclaimed by Christ, to understand that you are standing on shaky ground. There are so many interpretations of what "truth" is, that we can only be wary of what we truly understand. The essence of the matter is that we simply can't understand the mystery of God's covenant. With Gods help, in the Spirit, we can only approach . . . "understanding."

"As high as the Heavens are above the Earth are God's ways above our ways and God's thoughts above our thoughts."

The only sure path we have to "truth" is the path that Jesus gave us - "The Spirit" within us; the Spirit who leads us. The same Spirit which Christ promised would be with us and our church, for all time.

To Jesus, through Mary

A simply truth of our faith, how do I know it? The Spirit has given me the "grace" to accept it.

Peace be with you, Robert and my your journey toward Salvation in our church lead those who surround you to the same end.

-- Leon (pookieboy@jmj.com), April 29, 2004.

"I think it is easier to understand "Tradition," if you first understand the simplicity of the gift that Christ gave us. He didn't give us the Bible, what he gave us was "the Spirit!" The Spirit and twelve men!

Maybe, it should be turned around . . . what he gave us was simply Twelve men, led by the spirit. What we still have are the Bishops, the magisterium, led by the Spirit.

-- Leon (pookieboy@jmj.com), April 29, 2004.