Quick question..I'm a Notary Public. In my state I can perform a civil marriage. I had occasion to do so recently (first time) - the parties were not Catholic. I guess they'd call themselves agnostic.

As a Catholic, was I wrong to do perform this marriage? On the one hand, I'm glad they wanted to marry (they had been living together for years), but on the other hand, I feel I may have done something wrong. Please give me your input. Thanks.

-- Dee (Dee@none.sorry), March 24, 2004

Answers

Now that's a very interesting question you have raised,and I look forward to hearing the opinions of others who are much more well- versed than myself in these matters. It's only my opinion, but I would offer that you did nothing wrong as long as these folks were not Catholics. I'm basing that upon the fact that civil marriages for folks who aren't Christians at all would more than likely come under the "render unto Caesar" thing...If they were Catholics, and I were you, I'd flat out refuse to have anything to do with it...even if it cost me my job. On the other hand (and there always is one)..there are many things which are just plain sinful and it doesn't matter if the people involved are Catholics or not..years ago when I was a hospital administrator, I lost my job when the hospital decided to admit women for abortions..my area of expertise just happened to involve GYN, among others..since I refused to participate, even in planning administratively for abortions, I was terminated from my position. Fine with me. 99% of the patients accessing care at that facility were not Christians..made no difference. So, some things are always sinful under any circumstances, and some things are not...I think..?? What do others say...sure is a thought provoker isn't it?

-- lesley (martchas@hotmail.com), March 24, 2004.

I don't know. On the other hand, what if they were both Catholic? The marriage is not "sacramental", but is "valid" enough that if they divorced and wanted to get married later to other Catholics in the Church they would have to get an annulment. I still don't understand that.....

I just don't see marriage in the same light as abortion (murder). So, I don't think what you did was wrong.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 24, 2004.

It is valid enough for civil unity, and for civilised reasons, even if not formally recognised by the Roman Catholic Church. After all, technicaly Protestant Pastors marry people, and they aren't recgnised either. But we cant limit marriage just to Roman Catholics, nor can we expect others to share a roman cahtolic Veiw.

I am not Cahtolic, and see nothign wrong with actign within yourfunction.

I simpley tgink that, shodl, the couple become Catholic, they cna remarry in a sacramental marriage, and right now they can have a civil marirage.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 24, 2004.

Yes, you were okay to marry them. As non-catholics they are not bound to follow the laws of the Church. Therefore there is no requirement to be married in the Church.

(If they were Catholics, you should not marry them, since they are bound to follow the laws of the Church and to break them would be sin. That would make you guilty of the sin of scandal.)

-- Dan Garon (boethius61@yahoo.com), March 24, 2004.

Thanks Dan..that's what I was looking for.."scandal".

-- lesley (martchas@hotmail.com), March 24, 2004.

Just out of curiosity, how did you know what they're religious leanings were? Did you ask? Did they volunteer? Because ordinarily, you wouldn't have known, would you?

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 24, 2004.

sorry, should be "their"....

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 24, 2004.

As a Catholic, was I wrong to do perform this marriage? On the one hand, I'm glad they wanted to marry (they had been living together for years), but on the other hand, I feel I may have done something wrong. Please give me your input. Thanks.

-- Dee (Dee@none.sorry), March 24, 2004

Well , you did nothing wrong , at least that's how I see it !!

-- lesley wrote:

It's only my opinion, but I would offer that you did nothing wrong as long as these folks were not Catholics. I'm basing that upon the fact that civil marriages for folks who aren't Christians at all would more than likely come under the "render unto Caesar" thing...If they were Catholics, and I were you, I'd flat out refuse to have anything to do with it...even if it cost me my job. On the other hand (and there always is one)..there are many things which are just plain sinful and it doesn't matter if the people involved are Catholics or not..

If I may ask you , why ??

Also , can you or anyone else explain to me: "render unto Caesar" ??

(Thx in advance)

years ago when I was a hospital administrator, I lost my job when the hospital decided to admit women for abortions..my area of expertise just happened to involve GYN, among others..since I refused to participate,

With thisone , no doubt about it , I would do the same !!

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), March 25, 2004.

Sorry Laurent.."why" what? as far as my "render unto Caesar" comment, I was referring to the poster's official duties as a government worker..implying that she owed a responsibility to follow the laws of the land, as long as they didn't contradict those of God..which they would have if the folks were Catholic and she was Catholic.

-- lesley (martchas@hotmail.com), March 25, 2004.

Thanks for all your responses. Lesley - I admire the stand you took in your previous job.

GT - Under no circumstances would I have married the parties had one or both been Catholic, lapsed or otherwise. And I knew their religious leanings because they were acquaintances and that information was known to me prior to their request that I marry them. If I had not known those details, I cetainly would have asked. My being a Notary Public is not tied to my employment, so the issue of whether I could lose my job or not doesn't arise.

Again, thank you very much for your input. I feel decidedly reassured about my decision.

-- Dee (Dee@none.sorry), March 25, 2004.

Lesley , "why" what ??

I mean this:

If they were Catholics, and I were you, I'd flat out refuse to have anything to do with it...even if it cost me my job.

About "render unto Caesar" , thx for the explantion !!

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), March 25, 2004.

Thanks Laurent..why would I refuse to marry them If I were Dee and knew they were Catholics? Because Dee is also Catholic, and since Catholics are forbidden to marry outside the church,another Catholic who performs such a marriage would be encouraging them to sin, and also sinning themselves..see Dan's answer. Since it is our love for Christ which keeps us from wanting to sin, why would a person willingly do anything they know is sinful upon reflection?

-- lesley (martchas@hotmail.com), March 25, 2004.

Because Dee is also Catholic, and since Catholics are forbidden to marry outside the church,another Catholic who performs such a marriage would be encouraging them to sin, and also sinning themselves..

Sorry , but I still don't get it ??

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), March 25, 2004.

I just don't know why one would ask in the first place. Religion is a personal thing. Are you saying that you would ask total strangers what their religion is before performing a civil marriage?

In fact, it's a good thing that you aren't say a state employee, because you could well be sued for discrimination and lose your job, I would think. Are you actually allowed to decline marriage requests for any reason? You might even have been sued anyway (had they been Catholic), because notaries are regulated by the state, aren't they, and aren't exactly the same as a private business because they deal with documents that are kept as records by the state? You might want to be prepared to lose your license over this type of thing.

And, as far as Catholics go, if it were made a little easier, logistics-wise to get married in the Church (why a 6-month wait, even for older adults, not being able to have a marriage ceremony without a Mass, pre-marriage "classes", etc. not allowing outdoor ceremonies-- I mean, you have Mass outside, why not weddings), more Catholics would, I think.

Just because people go through all the rules and regs in order to have a Catholic wedding doesn't mean their committment is any stronger or weaker than someone going to a JP or a notary. And, you can always have your marriage blessed later.

I can understand refusing to perform abortions or refusing to dispense birth-control pills, but not necessarily this. I just don't get the "scandal" part.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 25, 2004.

GT - I am under no obligation to perform any notary function. I can refuse at will. But, even if I was obliged to do so, and even if I could possibly lose my license, I would still not perform a civil marriage where the party(ies) were Catholic. Sorry, but it's just not worth it to me, and I'm sorry you don't get it.

-- Dee (Dee@none.sorry), March 25, 2004.

Dee , so as I see it , for you , it's a principle matter ??

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), March 25, 2004.

In a nutshell, I would say so, yes.

-- Dee (Dee@none.sorry), March 25, 2004.

As a Catholic, was I wrong to do perform this marriage?

As more people wrote , you have done nothing wrong !!

But if it's the principle that counts for you , why didn't you refuse them to marry ??

On the one hand, I'm glad they wanted to marry (they had been living together for years)

I really don't understand this , it sounds very confused , sorry !!

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), March 26, 2004.